Musk oversaw staged Tesla self-driving video, emails show
- Thread starter JournalBot
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I'd describe this as 'aspirational honesty'; but it's pretty clear that that was never the objective.
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So going forward to avoid obvious fraud, the Tesla full self driving option will be sold as the 'I wish this was full self driving' option. To better reflect it's aspirational nature.
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I think what really clears the Audi advertisement from any accusation of being misleading is not so much the disclaimer at the bottom, but the clear indications that it is fantasy (Santa Claus, opening the door with beams coming from the eyes) and importantly the repeated statement that it describes an undefined future. If the video had suggested that it represented a car currently on the market that could still be a problem, because we know that people don't read disclaimers especially if the video is entertaining enough.
For Tesla to say that their video demonstrated features not currently available to customers was not enough. It was still capable of misleading because it claimed to represent what had been achieved, not what Tesla aspired to.
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NHSTA doesn't have the legal power to review, approve, or stop sale on any autonomous driving or ADAS system. It can only investigate and recall them when they represent a demonstrated safety risk.
C'mon, this is basic shit you should know if you're going to enter this conversation. Or you know it and you're attempting to bullshit.
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Because no approval was needed, and until those investigations are completed the government has not finished doing the due diligence that would allow it to ban the products?
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If Tesla was able to get their software to work in a geofenced area, even if it was limited to a hand full of routes I don't think thee video would be misleading. If they had been able to do that, its likely they could have at least released a production Level 4 autonomous system that is heavily geo fenced by now.
Instead of effectively having nothing to show for it. (Level 2 autonomous systems don't count when you're selling level 4 and 5.)
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This is what happens when you openly go full asshole - people start digging in and looking for anything that can take you down, and since you're the smartest guy in any room, it didn't occur to you that you might get caught, so you didn't take any precautions.
I have no doubt that it Musk had kept his mouth shut for the last few years and just run his companies that people would be a lot less inclined to look into stuff like this, not that this is a good thing.
Musk is about to receive a huge heaping helping of the consequences of his own actions, and rightly so.
I have no doubt that it Musk had kept his mouth shut for the last few years and just run his companies that people would be a lot less inclined to look into stuff like this, not that this is a good thing.
Musk is about to receive a huge heaping helping of the consequences of his own actions, and rightly so.
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Theranos put genuine effort into blood testing. They also lied their asses off. The two are not mutually exclusive.
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I think that a lot of stuff like this was just a matter of time until the chickens came to roost. People eventually find out about the lies.
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Madoff mostly had a shittonne of small-time investors, and then a few really large investors.
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Chemical Tribe
Ars Legatus Legionis
Yes you are, and you and I have different definitions of what rational means.
At this point you are concern trolling and should just quit now.
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It is exactly what he's doing right now actually. FSD is still not fully released. When it is fully released in 2017 or 2018 or whenever (wait, sorry, what does my calendar read? must be a mistake) then you'll have access to this wonderful autonomous driving, is the claim.
On its own this is not likely enough to cause serious trouble; the lawsuit is using it to help paint a pattern.
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Not sure if this is what you were referencing, but that’s how I read it.
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It's amazing how quickly this guy's public behavior has eliminated my desire to buy a Tesla Model 3.
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I know these statistics likely don't exist anywhere but I'd be curious to know how many first time Tesla buyers bought a Tesla with FSD based on Musks's promises then later bought a second Tesla but did not buy it with FSD due to disillusionment. Might give some hints into customer satisfaction with the so-called FSD package.
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More of a garment-rending Popehat "clients!" existential shriek stirred in with a bit of "is you taking notes on a criminal fucking conspiracy?"
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You are not approaching this rationally. You started carrying water for him, now stop.
Show me where, in the video, it was made unambiguously clear and explicit that it was an aspirational demo rather than a demonstration of existing, presently functional technology. Tell me exactly which time that disclaimer was introduced.
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No it wasn't. It was following a pre-programmed route, and it couldn't even do that without hitting a fence.
"The car is driving itself." Except it wasn't.
As one of the last couple of Musk taint-lickers here trying to defend him, you need to accept that Musk is at best full of shit, at worse dangerously incompetent. People die because of his shitty cars.
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Where's your source for Apple claiming the "world's best OS?"
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They sold a ticket to redeem when the software would be published.
The lie is that it was going to be published soon (at the time, 6-7 years ago).
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But in this case the geofence was literally just the route from that house in Mountain View to the Tesla site in Palo Alto (or vice versa, might have gotten the towns the wrong way around). Not a very useful geofence for most of Tesla's customers.
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The actual worst thing about this is that bad actors who put out unsafe more advanced autonomous systems have the ability to make the general public more wary about these features, and slow down the general public;'s acceptance of these systems.
This in the end could get far more people killed.
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I would expect very few. Why would they buy a second Tesla after the company ripped them off?
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They also claimed that shipping cars had all of the hardware necessary for full self driving.
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There were a LOT of comments on Ars just months ago explaining how many lives Tesla self-driving will have...
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The first is marketing hype due to there being no definitive standard for 'best' OS.
The second can absolutely be tested by seeing if the car can, in fact, fully drive itself.
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That's my expectation as well. I know two people who've bought two Teslas. FSD on the first; no FSD on the second. That's 100% in my anecdotal survey.
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Someone will inspect nails when they don’t understand how to read the plans.
Nitpicking irrelevant details is how these fucknuts manage to convince fools – the people believing him don’t know any better themselves.
If you’ve never learned anything about home construction but saw someone go on and on about the bad nails in a house, they could be easily convinced that this person is pointing out serious problems.
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AmanoJyaku
Ars Tribunus Angusticlavius
He could be the world's nicest person. From what I've read, the delta between Tesla's price and quality is enough to turn me off.
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Aspirational would be 15 seconds of footage of a twin bed in a tiny pod. Cramped little cubby with a computer and a fridge, maybe a small hatchway implied to lead to a toilet. Maybe some plants in secured containers. Then the tinted window across the length of the bed opens and we find out it’s actually a car in motion.
Seems like they did this in the least imaginative way possible.
Seems like they did this in the least imaginative way possible.
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No, this is actually one of the most shady things he's probably ever done. When you unequivocally say "This car is driving itself" and it's not, that is textbook definition of fraud. And as TFA states, there are emails showing Twitler knew this was the case and told the people behind the video to just fake the video if needed because they'll eventually get there with the software.
This is a scam of pretty large proportions. Not sure which alphabet soup agency would be in charge of investigating the obvious effort of getting people to pay for the FSD feature when Twitler knew, at the time, it wasn't even remotely capable of doing the things he claimed it could do... it's probably the FTC... but they need to be opening a criminal investigation yesterday if they haven't already. Tesla should be forced to refund all FSD deposits to everyone and not allowed to take money for the feature until they actually have it working and could be pushed out to vehicles that day. Then the company, and everyone involved in the making of that video, should be looking at separate criminal charges personally. At a minimum, one count of unintentional vehicular manslaughter for every single person who has died as a result of a Tesla using any kind of driver assist mode, and I'm sure there's some other suitable statute for people who were merely injured and recovered.
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AmanoJyaku
Ars Tribunus Angusticlavius
Some advice from a fellow Apple-phobe: you don't have to turn every conversation into an Apple critique. Save it for Apple articles.
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