Microsoft: Software update unlocks more GPU bandwidth on Xbox One

Devs can now access 10 percent GPU slice previously reserved for Kinect, system functions

Read the whole story

 

[rubley00]

Is there anything left for them to backtrack on?

 

[tuxfool]

These are standard optimizations that happen as the toolchains improve over the life of the console. Supposedly the ps4 is getting a massive gpgpu boost soon.

 

[daneren2005]

rubley00[/url]":1ko0jm57]Is there anything left for them to backtrack on?

Well, this thing for one:

the company promised it would be opening up that slice of processing time to game developers in the future

 

[charybdisjim]

So wait, did saddling it with kinect - at launch at least - create a greater deficit in potential performance between it and the PS4 than the raw power of the hardware? And this means the kinectless version is not only $100 cheaper but performs better? I am actually asking, but from the the responses it seems like it's not as significant as all that.

 

[MikahR]

rubley00[/url]":cwfd35dp]Is there anything left for them to backtrack on?

Nope. Now they're free to kick some ass at E3 without having all that extra weight on their shoulders to worry about.

Strategy in progress.

 

[Scud]

Instead of 792p, games can now be at 871p?

 

[Pantagruel]

Scud[/url]":20s46rqw]Instead of 792p, games can now be at 871p?

What's up with those crazy resolutions, anyway? Why not 720p?

 

[MikahR]

Pantagruel[/url]":1fksazrr]

Scud[/url]":1fksazrr]Instead of 792p, games can now be at 871p?

What's up with those crazy resolutions, anyway? Why not 720p?

792p has to do with the eSRAM. Someone at NeoGAF did the math.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=819298

 

[Scud]

Ralf The Dog[/url]":2zcbg0jw]I can't wait for the back and forth between Apple, Microsoft and Sony. With the current generation iPhone having equal GPU performance with the PS4 (using IOS 8) and Apple expected to double performance with the iPhone 6, I expect something of a three way performance war.

I doubt it. That sounds like the same marketing speak of when Sony claimed the cell can render pixar level graphics in real time.

 

[MikahR]

Scud[/url]":1x53tlkv]Instead of 792p, games can now be at 871p?

Well... at least resolution is increasing rather than decreasing.

Watch Dogs on PS4 at 900p says "Hello!"

 

[MikahR]

theJonTech[/url]":1sx5deyr]Great so they can re release games at 1080p right?

Software patches can take care of resolution bumps.

It's been done a couple times for PS4 games already.

 

[Dyskresiac]

Ralf The Dog[/url]":3rxjywr9]I can't wait for the back and forth between Apple, Microsoft and Sony. With the current generation iPhone having equal GPU performance with the PS4 (using IOS 8) and Apple expected to double performance with the iPhone 6, I expect something of a three way performance war.

Hahahahah WHAT!?

You're saying an A7 is equal performance with a 7870?

Dear god, I hope this is a joke that went over my head.

 

[melgross]

Scud[/url]":2oj6xw22]

Ralf The Dog[/url]":2oj6xw22]I can't wait for the back and forth between Apple, Microsoft and Sony. With the current generation iPhone having equal GPU performance with the PS4 (using IOS 8) and Apple expected to double performance with the iPhone 6, I expect something of a three way performance war.

I doubt it. That sounds like the same marketing speak of when Sony claimed the cell can render pixar level graphics in real time.

Except that Apple never claimed that. He's claiming that. The A7 is roughly equivelant to the PS3, though graphics is less.

Still, pretty good for an ARM design from last year.

 

[kinpin]

charybdisjim[/url]":1atnlv6z]So wait, did saddling it with kinect - at launch at least - create a greater deficit in potential performance between it and the PS4 than the raw power of the hardware? And this means the kinectless version is not only $100 cheaper but performs better?

Umm not quite . Kinect functionality, together with the other non-gaming part of the device ( apps, game dvr etc ) takes up 10% of the system resources . Whatever gains will be made by removal of kinect will be very minimal.

 

[Wonder Chemist]

Does anyone know if they've done anything about the 'sleep' power consumption?

 

[Dyskresiac]

Ralf The Dog[/url]":2swvy2vz]

Scud[/url]":2swvy2vz]

Ralf The Dog[/url]":2swvy2vz]I can't wait for the back and forth between Apple, Microsoft and Sony. With the current generation iPhone having equal GPU performance with the PS4 (using IOS 8) and Apple expected to double performance with the iPhone 6, I expect something of a three way performance war.

I doubt it. That sounds like the same marketing speak of when Sony claimed the cell can render pixar level graphics in real time.

Other than the fact, Game developers demoed new Xbox 1 and PS4 games running on a current generation iPhone. When it is the big game houses making the comparison, not Apple, I take it with a few more grains of salt.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Imaginatio ... 717.0.html

A PowerVR G6430 is a Tier 5.

A 7870 is a Tier 1.

I don't care what developers demoed, there is a long way to go.

 

[matty124]

Ralf The Dog[/url]":mcst4kdz]I can't wait for the back and forth between Apple, Microsoft and Sony. With the current generation iPhone having equal GPU performance with the PS4 (using IOS 8) and Apple expected to double performance with the iPhone 6, I expect something of a three way performance war.

Rubbish according to tests the iphone's 5s GPU is around one fourth as powerful as a PS3 {Not the PS4}, that said it's still extremely impressive that we are here already with such tiny devices...

The PS4's GPU is about 5 times more powerful than the PS3's so the PS4 is about 20 times better than the iphone 5s {at least}.

Looking at the pure GFlops measurements, we see that Apple’s iPhone 5s is easily the most powerful platform currently available. The graphical performance of the iPhone 5s actually matched the iPad 4 at 76.8GFlops, and starts to approach console grade level. In comparison, gaming platforms like the Sony Playstation 3 score around 230GFlops.

http://www.phonearena.com/news/Apple-iP ... ks_id47739

 

[Jensen404]

Scud[/url]":6yqo0goh]Instead of 792p, games can now be at 871p?

That would require a 21% increase in fill rate.

A 10% increase would be 831p

 

[Scud]

Ralf The Dog[/url]":q3ln48l6]
Other than the fact, Game developers demoed new Xbox 1 and PS4 games running on a current generation iPhone. When it is the big game houses making the comparison, not Apple, I take it with a few more grains of salt.

Good luck running those games on an iPhone. What you call games, the rest of the world calls them powerpoint slides (1fps).

 

[locater16]

Scud[/url]":3czfnjcd]Instead of 792p, games can now be at 871p?

See, that's how you make fun of these things! Most of the rest of these comments are utter fanboy drivel in one form or another. But you sir, you knew what you were about, I salute you.

 

[Scud]

melgross[/url]":34z5r1fd]
Except that Apple never claimed that. He's claiming that. The A7 is roughly equivelant to the PS3, though graphics is less.

Still, pretty good for an ARM design from last year.

Equivalent in what? Nothing to do with games, that's for sure.

 

[Dyskresiac]

Ralf The Dog[/url]":f1ite6j5]

matty124[/url]":f1ite6j5]

Ralf The Dog[/url]":f1ite6j5]I can't wait for the back and forth between Apple, Microsoft and Sony. With the current generation iPhone having equal GPU performance with the PS4 (using IOS 8) and Apple expected to double performance with the iPhone 6, I expect something of a three way performance war.

Rubbish according to tests the iphone's 5s GPU is around one fourth as powerful as a PS3 {Not the PS4}, that said it's still extremely impressive that we are here already with such tiny devices...

Looking at the pure GFlops measurements, we see that Apple’s iPhone 5s is easily the most powerful platform currently available. The graphical performance of the iPhone 5s actually matched the iPad 4 at 76.8GFlops, and starts to approach console grade level. In comparison, gaming platforms like the Sony Playstation 3 score around 230GFlops.

http://www.phonearena.com/news/Apple-iP ... ks_id47739

The point is, the same device has ten times the performance on IOS 8 as it does on IOS 7. Optimization should be expected before the public release.

Come out Ashton Kutcher. You got us.


Even if, for the sake of argument, I bite. Let's say it's as capable of the same power as the PS4. How fast will it drain your 1440 mAh battery? What would you do with all the heat it generated?

You do realize computers aren't magical devices that "Generate bits" out of nowhere, right?

 

[flunk]

This is the final nail in Kinect's coffin. Developers now get a performance advantage for not using the Kinect so I don't expect to see many games with additional Kinect features. It will either be a Kinect game or not.

 

[Madigon]

Meanwhile, Steam Machines aren't taking advantage of this chaos.

 

[Will Riker's Crotchguard]

"Microsoft says the new firmware will also help developers extract more power from the system's Graphical Processing Unit"

This is not correct, at least according to the sources linked in the story - the extra GPU power has been 'unlocked' in the June SDK release, not the June Xbox firmware.

 

[somini]

Wonder Chemist[/url]":32ynwzzp]Does anyone know if they've done anything about the 'sleep' power consumption?

The NSA link uses proprietary software, I bet Microsoft just drops the binaries and creates a cron job.

 

[WaveRunner]

Ralf The Dog[/url]":b529enti]

The point is, the same device has ten times the performance on IOS 8 as it does on IOS 7. Optimization should be expected before the public release.

I think you are confusing the speed of making OpenGL ES API calls versus the actual rendering performance.

 

[Dyskresiac]

-\

Ralf The Dog[/url]":3gx5gb8d]

Dyskresiac[/url]":3gx5gb8d]

Ralf The Dog[/url]":3gx5gb8d]

matty124[/url]":3gx5gb8d]

Ralf The Dog[/url]":3gx5gb8d]I can't wait for the back and forth between Apple, Microsoft and Sony. With the current generation iPhone having equal GPU performance with the PS4 (using IOS 8) and Apple expected to double performance with the iPhone 6, I expect something of a three way performance war.

Rubbish according to tests the iphone's 5s GPU is around one fourth as powerful as a PS3 {Not the PS4}, that said it's still extremely impressive that we are here already with such tiny devices...

Looking at the pure GFlops measurements, we see that Apple’s iPhone 5s is easily the most powerful platform currently available. The graphical performance of the iPhone 5s actually matched the iPad 4 at 76.8GFlops, and starts to approach console grade level. In comparison, gaming platforms like the Sony Playstation 3 score around 230GFlops.

http://www.phonearena.com/news/Apple-iP ... ks_id47739

The point is, the same device has ten times the performance on IOS 8 as it does on IOS 7. Optimization should be expected before the public release.

Come out Ashton Kutcher. You got us.


Even if, for the sake of argument, I bite. Let's say it's as capable of the same power as the PS4. How fast will it drain your 1440 mAh battery? What would you do with all the heat it generated?

You do realize computers aren't magical devices that "Generate bits" out of nowhere, right?

It's not that hard to understand. Apple is moving from a not that great implementation of Open GL to giving developers direct access to the GPU at the shader level. The penalty they are paying is, if you are a less than skilled programmer, your performance will drop. If you are willing and capable of writing code at the hardware level, x10 performance is reasonable and twice that with a bit more experience with the system.

Think of it as the difference between writing in an interpreted language and hand coded Assembly.

I get that you're good at regurgitating marketing talking points. But your grasp of physics isn't that great.

I work with Xilinx and Altera FPGAs, which are orders of magnitude faster than an A7. It is a hardware "language" on EVERY level, but they still produce heat. And consume energy. It's not that hard to understand.

I'm also fluent in Assembly, and it isn't magic. Things still require power and produce heat. So even IF the levels of performance are achieved, and that's a huuuuuge "if", your battery would die in approximately 5 minutes.

Not to mention, the industry has a term for a "Less skilled Programmer." I believe it's called an "App Developer."

 

[심돌산]

Ralf The Dog[/url]":39h607d2]

WaveRunner[/url]":39h607d2]

Ralf The Dog[/url]":39h607d2]

The point is, the same device has ten times the performance on IOS 8 as it does on IOS 7. Optimization should be expected before the public release.

I think you are confusing the speed of making OpenGL ES API calls versus the actual rendering performance.

Or the difference between hand coded precompiled shaders with executing general library commands.

Now programmers will be able to hand-code shaders on an A7 like below. Things will be 10x as fast!

#define MAX_BALLS 10
precision mediump float;
 
varying lowp vec2 v_texCoord;
 
uniform float u_width;
uniform int numballs;
uniform vec3 balls[MAX_BALLS]; //.xy is position .z is radius
 
float energyField(in vec2 p, in float iso)
{
    float en = 0.0;
    bool result = false;
    for(int i=0; i < numballs; ++i)
    {
        float dist = length(vec2(balls[i].xy - p));
        float radius = balls[i].z;
        // avoid div by zero
        float denom =  max(0.0001, dist);
        en += (radius / denom);
    }
    return (en - iso);
}
 
void main()
{
    vec2 t = v_texCoord;
    float power = energyField(gl_FragCoord.xy, 3.0);
    // got the power, now add our 'flourish'...
    float hwidth = u_width/2.0;
    // rescale from 0 -> width to -1 -> 1
    float left = 1.0 - (gl_FragCoord.x/hwidth);
    left = (left * left) * (left * left);
    gl_FragColor = vec4(power-(left*2.0), power-left, power-left, left+0.5);
}

 

[Baeocystin]

Genuine question for all- Do you think it's gotten bad enough for Microsoft for them to do an actual spec-bump with the next revision of the Xbox one?

They would have to handle it with care, maybe offer early adopters an easy way to get an improved version. It would be an expensive undertaking, to be sure, but it may actually be better for them in the long run than trying to ride out an entire console cycle with underwhelming results.