Lizard Squad teen gets no-jail sentence for 50,700 fraud, harassment charges

Finnish 17-year-old had been arrested in 2013, bragged about recent hacks on TV.

Read the whole story

 

[andrewb610]

If he was prosecuted in the U.S, which fortunately for him, he wasn't, he'd be looking at as many as 15 years if he ever deleted a file.....Thanks Enron!

 

[ken27238]

Oh, sure, do it to PSN and XBL and you get a slap on the wrist. Do it to a bank, federal agency or major store and you're literally Hitler.

 

[edm555]

Wow Finland, way to send a message...

This is bullshit.

 

[FFabian]

edm555[/url]":1qd1dpw0]Wow Finland, way to send a message...

This is bullshit.

Yeah and the US is known for reasonable sentencing and a flawless justice system ...

 

[OptimusWang]

I could really give a shit about the XLB/PSN stuff, but getting probation for swatting someone is crap. He sent armed men looking for a fight into a house for the lulz? Fuck him, he should do some time.

 

[andrewb610]

FFabian[/url]"go9bhps]

edm555[/url]"go9bhps]Wow Finland, way to send a message...

This is bullshit.

Yeah and the US is known for reasonable sentencing and a flawless justice system ...

Sometimes sarcasm is clearly evident, even on the internet.
I'm surprised that comment isn't an immediate reader favorite.
Edit: I see the prevailing opinion now, and I must say, I understand and agree that it may have been too light. At the same time, the above sarcastic comment is still hilarious.

 

[graylshaped]

Aw, let's not be too tough on the minor. Now his parents, on the other hand...

 

[HughAMacMullanIV]

"I can't really feel bad," the teen said when asked about whether he felt guilty for disrupting those services.

Sociopath much?

 

[GenocideOwl]

ken27238[/url]":2atia813]Oh, sure, do it to PSN and XBL and you get a slap on the wrist. Do it to a bank, federal agency or major store and you're literally Hitler.

take the whole "it is a video game" out of the equation. They caused essentially "hundreds of thousands" in damage to both companies in real damage and in brand damage.
not to mention they were also caught with thousands of american credit cards and swatted people
...why are these kids not in jail again?

 

[panckage]

If the person is under age and the name being kept secret then why is his potential name being posted in the article?

edit: I guess the downvoters would be happy to see ars sued for breaking the law? I have no idea about Finland but many countries forbid the publication of names of underage offenders

 

[andrewb610]

panckage[/url]":2fy0zxg6]If the person is under age and the name being kept secret then why is his potential name being posted in the article?

I would venture to guess it's because his name has already been published. And then he bragged about the stuff he did on TV.

 

[Lets all mariachi!]

HughAMacMullanIV[/url]":2rcvv09b]

"I can't really feel bad," the teen said when asked about whether he felt guilty for disrupting those services.

Sociopath much?

Honestly this is a sentiment I can at least relate to if not necessarily agree with, I have a hard time having sympathy with corporate services in general, but the other things he has involved himself in that strike out against individuals, the Swatting, the theft.. yeah that cant be tolerated with probation, those two years should not have been suspended. Punishing an internet stranger to roulette by cop is inherently incredibly dangerous and the court not really recognizing that is really disappointing.

 

[allgood2386]

andrewb610[/url]":2ssq2ddu]

FFabian[/url]":2ssq2ddu]

edm555[/url]":2ssq2ddu]Wow Finland, way to send a message...

This is bullshit.

Yeah and the US is known for reasonable sentencing and a flawless justice system ...

Sometimes sarcasm is clearly evident, even on the internet.
I'm surprised that comment isn't an immediate reader favorite.
Edit: I see the prevailing opinion now, and I must say, I understand and agree that it may have been too light. At the same time, the above sarcastic comment is still hilarious.

I agree, with that the kid did do a lot of damage but, many countries won't extradite to the USA because of our death penalty. Yes I think this kid should get more then a slap on the wrist but given the alternative of sending him to the US where he might get 15 years in a federal pen..... I can see why they wouldn't want to send him our way..

 

[THavoc]

Can someone explain to me why the sentence was so light?

I actually agree with the statement. They DO have free reign to do whatever they want right now.

 

[Petitchka]

THavoc[/url]":1rp80pt1]Can someone explain to me why the sentence was so light?

I actually agree with the statement. They DO have free reign to do whatever they want right now.

Finnish jail is rehabilitative, not punitive. Nor is there a goal of "sending the message". Juveniles always walk, since there would be no point to ruining a life. Sentences for computer crime are generally light, and this one took into account his age. (Hufvudstadsbladet)

 

[Sumwun]

In great part the sentence reflects cultural differences between Scandinavia and the USA.

Scandinavian countries place a substantial weight on the age of the offender and they try to rehabilitate rather than punish young offenders.

If you created a SWAT incident in Finland it's unlikely that the police would respond with military type armored vehicles, full camoflage body armor and high-power assault weaponry. It would be taken seriously, but the police don't have much need for that type of response - neither the financial cost nor the public's attitude towards the police would justify it.

It's quite possible that the judge didn't realize the gravity of the swatting and the possible result.

 

[Falos]

"50,000 charges of 'computer crimes'" makes me say a slap on the wrist is about right. When you write federal laws about "unauthorized use of a computing device", or opening up your DVD player, or mentioning an already-public site/document, then you train me to scorn those laws.

So you'll have to name some REAL charges (I'm not even asking for true scotsman) to convince me the kid needs to be locked up.

For instance, I would accept some form of "indirectly endangering human life" for most SWATtings. The ones with trigger-happy US authorities, of course.

Edit: In case it wasn't clear, my writeup means that after looking past the hyperbole (from the justice system, no less) I do in fact think the kid needs rehabilitation, and prison time is a valid option.

 

[THavoc]

astie[/url]":xhe44rbz]In great part the sentence reflects cultural differences between Scandinavia and the USA.

Scandinavian countries place a substantial weight on the age of the offender and they try to rehabilitate rather than punish young offenders.

If you created a SWAT incident in Finland it's unlikely that the police would respond with military type armored vehicles, full camoflage body armor and high-power assault weaponry. It would be taken seriously, but the police don't have much need for that type of response - neither the financial cost nor the public's attitude towards the police would justify it.

It's quite possible that the judge didn't realize the gravity of the swatting and the possible result.

Possible I suppose but I'm pretty sure someone explained the swatting during the trial.

 

[Exelius]

edm555[/url]":2t7dff2t]Wow Finland, way to send a message...

This is bullshit.

Maybe justice shouldn't be about sending a message? This kid was a first-time offender who is underage and had no obvious motive beyond "teh lulz". No need to ruin his life because he was a stupid teenager -- he's obviously smart and talented with computers, and hopefully this will provide him the wake-up call he needs.

Prison is not particularly effective at rehabilitating criminals, and most European nations don't send non-violent offenders to prison. Jail sentences are IMO an overly-used aspect of the US justice system -- and globally, we are an anomaly in that regard.

EDIT: And I suspect that if he reoffends in a similar fashion any time soon, they will throw him in prison.

 

[Lets all mariachi!]

Exelius[/url]":3u3abvk1]

edm555[/url]":3u3abvk1]Wow Finland, way to send a message...

This is bullshit.

Maybe justice shouldn't be about sending a message? This kid was a first-time offender who is underage and had no obvious motive beyond "teh lulz". No need to ruin his life because he was a stupid teenager -- he's obviously smart and talented with computers, and hopefully this will provide him the wake-up call he needs.

Prison is not particularly effective at rehabilitating criminals, and most European nations don't send non-violent offenders to prison. Jail sentences are IMO an overly-used aspect of the US justice system -- and globally, we are an anomaly in that regard.

EDIT: And I suspect that if he reoffends in a similar fashion any time soon, they will throw him in prison.

Hes not a first time offender though, it even says so in the article.

 

[jdale]

allgood2386[/url]":3aqh58t9]

andrewb610[/url]":3aqh58t9]

FFabian[/url]":3aqh58t9]

edm555[/url]":3aqh58t9]Wow Finland, way to send a message...

This is bullshit.

Yeah and the US is known for reasonable sentencing and a flawless justice system ...

Sometimes sarcasm is clearly evident, even on the internet.
I'm surprised that comment isn't an immediate reader favorite.
Edit: I see the prevailing opinion now, and I must say, I understand and agree that it may have been too light. At the same time, the above sarcastic comment is still hilarious.

I agree, with that the kid did do a lot of damage but, many countries won't extradite to the USA because of our death penalty. Yes I think this kid should get more then a slap on the wrist but given the alternative of sending him to the US where he might get 15 years in a federal pen..... I can see why they wouldn't want to send him our way..

Death penalty should not be relevant as he was not accused (much less convicted) of any crime that would be subject to it.

I understand the desire for rehabilitation rather than punitive measures, and that's a big difference between our system and theirs, but I don't see any reason to think a sentence with zero jail time is going to achieve any rehabilitation. He's out on his own, with internet access. If they think a hacker won't be able to get around whatever monitoring they intend to do...

 

[slugabed]

Petitchka[/url]":er6t5g39]

THavoc[/url]":er6t5g39]Can someone explain to me why the sentence was so light?

I actually agree with the statement. They DO have free reign to do whatever they want right now.

Juveniles always walk, since there would be no point to ruining a life.

Seems to me he's doing a fine job of that himself.

 

[Exelius]

Lets all mariachi![/url]":3rraj4i2]

Exelius[/url]":3rraj4i2]

edm555[/url]":3rraj4i2]Wow Finland, way to send a message...

This is bullshit.

Maybe justice shouldn't be about sending a message? This kid was a first-time offender who is underage and had no obvious motive beyond "teh lulz". No need to ruin his life because he was a stupid teenager -- he's obviously smart and talented with computers, and hopefully this will provide him the wake-up call he needs.

Prison is not particularly effective at rehabilitating criminals, and most European nations don't send non-violent offenders to prison. Jail sentences are IMO an overly-used aspect of the US justice system -- and globally, we are an anomaly in that regard.

EDIT: And I suspect that if he reoffends in a similar fashion any time soon, they will throw him in prison.

Hes not a first time offender though, it even says so in the article.

Fair point; my fault for not reading carefully. Regardless, most European countries don't send people to jail for non-violent crimes. They just don't have the prison infrastructure, and societally they have decided that they don't want it.

 

[allgood2386]

jdale[/url]":3i8m9b5t]

allgood2386[/url]":3i8m9b5t]

andrewb610[/url]":3i8m9b5t]

FFabian[/url]":3i8m9b5t]

edm555[/url]":3i8m9b5t]Wow Finland, way to send a message...

This is bullshit.

Yeah and the US is known for reasonable sentencing and a flawless justice system ...

Sometimes sarcasm is clearly evident, even on the internet.
I'm surprised that comment isn't an immediate reader favorite.
Edit: I see the prevailing opinion now, and I must say, I understand and agree that it may have been too light. At the same time, the above sarcastic comment is still hilarious.

I agree, with that the kid did do a lot of damage but, many countries won't extradite to the USA because of our death penalty. Yes I think this kid should get more then a slap on the wrist but given the alternative of sending him to the US where he might get 15 years in a federal pen..... I can see why they wouldn't want to send him our way..

Death penalty should not be relevant as he was not accused (much less convicted) of any crime that would be subject to it.

I understand the desire for rehabilitation rather than punitive measures, and that's a big difference between our system and theirs, but I don't see any reason to think a sentence with zero jail time is going to achieve any rehabilitation. He's out on his own, with internet access. If they think a hacker won't be able to get around whatever monitoring they intend to do...

I agree but it's a blanket policy that many countries have. I'm not sure of the specifics on this one while I agree that something more needs to be done I don't think he deserves to get swartz'ed and deal with THAT kind of justice.

 

[jdale]

allgood2386[/url]":1ab59iri]

jdale[/url]":1ab59iri]

allgood2386[/url]":1ab59iri]

andrewb610[/url]":1ab59iri]
Sometimes sarcasm is clearly evident, even on the internet.
I'm surprised that comment isn't an immediate reader favorite.
Edit: I see the prevailing opinion now, and I must say, I understand and agree that it may have been too light. At the same time, the above sarcastic comment is still hilarious.

I agree, with that the kid did do a lot of damage but, many countries won't extradite to the USA because of our death penalty. Yes I think this kid should get more then a slap on the wrist but given the alternative of sending him to the US where he might get 15 years in a federal pen..... I can see why they wouldn't want to send him our way..

Death penalty should not be relevant as he was not accused (much less convicted) of any crime that would be subject to it.

I understand the desire for rehabilitation rather than punitive measures, and that's a big difference between our system and theirs, but I don't see any reason to think a sentence with zero jail time is going to achieve any rehabilitation. He's out on his own, with internet access. If they think a hacker won't be able to get around whatever monitoring they intend to do...

I agree but it's a blanket policy that many countries have. I'm not sure of the specifics on this one while I agree that something more needs to be done I don't think he deserves to get swartz'ed and deal with THAT kind of justice.

There's a lot of room between those two sentences. I'm sure something intermediate could be found.

 

[Static and Noise]

astie[/url]":2nsh2iq9]In great part the sentence reflects cultural differences between Scandinavia and the USA.

Scandinavian countries place a substantial weight on the age of the offender and they try to rehabilitate rather than punish young offenders.

If you created a SWAT incident in Finland it's unlikely that the police would respond with military type armored vehicles, full camoflage body armor and high-power assault weaponry. It would be taken seriously, but the police don't have much need for that type of response - neither the financial cost nor the public's attitude towards the police would justify it.

It's quite possible that the judge didn't realize the gravity of the swatting and the possible result.

This is important. If he goes to trial for crimes done after he's turned 18. BLAM it'll be a lot harsher on him. Considering he's monitored now...

This is actually a bit of a problem here up north, kids below the age of 18 commits crimes and they get no real sentences, and once they turn 18, it's suddenly X years in prison. The difference in the severity of the punishments is too high; some youth offenders get into a mindset of "pffft, nothing". You think this kid will stop his criminal activities because of this? Nope. But the next time, he'll be an adult and no "he is young" rtehoric will help. Chances are very high he's looking forward to a miserable next few decades.

 

[thekaj]

Petitchka[/url]":2904uhaz]

THavoc[/url]":2904uhaz]Can someone explain to me why the sentence was so light?

I actually agree with the statement. They DO have free reign to do whatever they want right now.

Finnish jail is rehabilitative, not punitive. Nor is there a goal of "sending the message". Juveniles always walk, since there would be no point to ruining a life. Sentences for computer crime are generally light, and this one took into account his age. (Hufvudstadsbladet)

I guess I question where the rehabilitation is then. If all he gets is a suspended sentence and his activities monitored, then it doesn't sound like there's any effort going into teaching him that what he did was wrong. Considering his very recent comments, that's something that is woefully needed, since he seems to have no remorse, or even concept that what he did was wrong.

Regardless of there not being a goal to "send a message", one was clearly sent. And it's obvious that it's one that will just encourage more of this behavior from others. No, there may not be much to be gained in ruining a kid's life. Yet there's a rather large chasm between throwing him in jail for decades and what was essentially a wagging of a finger and admonishment not to do it again to a guy who was giving them the finger as they were handing down the "sentence."

 

[Sumwun]

Exelius[/url]":cid4sceo]

edm555[/url]":cid4sceo]Wow Finland, way to send a message...

This is bullshit.

Maybe justice shouldn't be about sending a message? This kid was a first-time offender who is underage and had no obvious motive beyond "teh lulz". No need to ruin his life because he was a stupid teenager -- he's obviously smart and talented with computers, and hopefully this will provide him the wake-up call he needs.

Prison is not particularly effective at rehabilitating criminals, and most European nations don't send non-violent offenders to prison. Jail sentences are IMO an overly-used aspect of the US justice system -- and globally, we are an anomaly in that regard.

Prison sentences do appear to overused in the USA. The USA has 5% of the global population and 25% of the prison population.

Prison inmates in USA: 716 per 100,000 population
Prison inmates in Finland: 58 per 100,000 population

Data from http://www.apcca.org/uploads/10th_Edition_2013.pdf

 

[THavoc]

thekaj[/url]":sgv98dx3]

Petitchka[/url]":sgv98dx3]

THavoc[/url]":sgv98dx3]Can someone explain to me why the sentence was so light?

I actually agree with the statement. They DO have free reign to do whatever they want right now.

Finnish jail is rehabilitative, not punitive. Nor is there a goal of "sending the message". Juveniles always walk, since there would be no point to ruining a life. Sentences for computer crime are generally light, and this one took into account his age. (Hufvudstadsbladet)

I guess I question where the rehabilitation is then. If all he gets is a suspended sentence and his activities monitored, then it doesn't sound like there's any effort going into teaching him that what he did was wrong. Considering his very recent comments, that's something that is woefully needed, since he seems to have no remorse, or even concept that what he did was wrong.

Regardless of there not being a goal to "send a message", one was clearly sent. And it's obvious that it's one that will just encourage more of this behavior from others. No, there may not be much to be gained in ruining a kid's life. Yet there's a rather large chasm between throwing him in jail for decades and what was essentially a wagging of a finger and admonishment not to do it again to a guy who was giving them the finger as they were handing down the "sentence."

Agreed. I hardly call 'monitoring' a way to rehab this person.

He doesn't necessarily have to be thrown into jail but more should have been done to deter the behavior.

 

[Exelius]

THavoc[/url]":2enjed8e]

thekaj[/url]":2enjed8e]

Petitchka[/url]":2enjed8e]

THavoc[/url]":2enjed8e]Can someone explain to me why the sentence was so light?

I actually agree with the statement. They DO have free reign to do whatever they want right now.

Finnish jail is rehabilitative, not punitive. Nor is there a goal of "sending the message". Juveniles always walk, since there would be no point to ruining a life. Sentences for computer crime are generally light, and this one took into account his age. (Hufvudstadsbladet)

I guess I question where the rehabilitation is then. If all he gets is a suspended sentence and his activities monitored, then it doesn't sound like there's any effort going into teaching him that what he did was wrong. Considering his very recent comments, that's something that is woefully needed, since he seems to have no remorse, or even concept that what he did was wrong.

Regardless of there not being a goal to "send a message", one was clearly sent. And it's obvious that it's one that will just encourage more of this behavior from others. No, there may not be much to be gained in ruining a kid's life. Yet there's a rather large chasm between throwing him in jail for decades and what was essentially a wagging of a finger and admonishment not to do it again to a guy who was giving them the finger as they were handing down the "sentence."

Agreed. I hardly call 'monitoring' a way to rehab this person.

He doesn't necessarily have to be thrown into jail but more should have been done to deter the behavior.

Yep, but Finland as a country has placed more of an emphasis on providing support to its citizens than dealing with criminals.

 

[infected]

HughAMacMullanIV[/url]":3aavd6mg]

"I can't really feel bad," the teen said when asked about whether he felt guilty for disrupting those services.

Sociopath much?

Whilst I have little doubt he is a sociopath [assuming he is the kid I've seen a video of], I actually kind of sympathise with his lack of remorse over the knocking PSN/XBL offline.

 

[LrdDimwit]

OptimusWang[/url]":3mqkde5s]I could really give a shit about the XLB/PSN stuff, but getting probation for swatting someone is crap. He sent armed men looking for a fight into a house for the lulz? Fuck him, he should do some time.

To be fair, we don't actually know from the article whether or not he was actually convicted of swatting anybody. I checked, because I wanted to know whether this ... individual ... really did get probation for swatting somebody. It's not in the article. It's possible he wasn't charged with the swatting incident.

Irregardless of whether or not this particular guy was convicted of it, in general, a swatting conviction ought to carry a mandatory sentence in actual jail.

 

[Golgo1]

“I’ve lost complete faith in the justice system, and that includes the FBI," Strater told the Daily Dot. "He’s harmed American targets and the FBI should have stepped in by now."

sure, Finland should have been much much harsher, but to expect the US to expand their jurisdiction just because you want revenge is idiotic.

Who do you think you are, the Recording Industry?

 

[Fatesrider]

graylshaped[/url]":3v95obbj]Aw, let's not be too tough on the minor. Now his parents, on the other hand...

Yes, lets...

HughAMacMullanIV[/url]":3v95obbj]

"I can't really feel bad," the teen said when asked about whether he felt guilty for disrupting those services.

Sociopath much?

Um... Something tells me that his parents were the problem to begin with - just a guess...

 

[Mad Postal]

The BBC has a different take on the story.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-33442419

According to that, it is definitely Julius Kivimaki that was convicted but not all of the charges were fraud or harassment, as the title to this article states. It also mentions that these charges were for crimes committed in 2012 and 2013.

"[The verdict] took into account the young age of the defendant at the time, his capacity to understand the harmfulness of the crimes, and the fact that he had been imprisoned for about a month during the pre-trial investigation," said a statement from the court.

 

[Freeman]

This human unit is no longer a sociopath/psychopath in training.

This 'kid' knew what he was doing when he was doing it and had every reason to believe the consequences for his actions would be pretty damn close to the outcome he has lived to see and enjoy.

This does not bode well for the functional members of humanity.

It will not end well for the rest of us.

 

[SgtCupCake]

Exelius[/url]":1ae4f0dp]

THavoc[/url]":1ae4f0dp]

thekaj[/url]":1ae4f0dp]

Petitchka[/url]":1ae4f0dp]

THavoc[/url]":1ae4f0dp]Can someone explain to me why the sentence was so light?

I actually agree with the statement. They DO have free reign to do whatever they want right now.

Finnish jail is rehabilitative, not punitive. Nor is there a goal of "sending the message". Juveniles always walk, since there would be no point to ruining a life. Sentences for computer crime are generally light, and this one took into account his age. (Hufvudstadsbladet)

I guess I question where the rehabilitation is then. If all he gets is a suspended sentence and his activities monitored, then it doesn't sound like there's any effort going into teaching him that what he did was wrong. Considering his very recent comments, that's something that is woefully needed, since he seems to have no remorse, or even concept that what he did was wrong.

Regardless of there not being a goal to "send a message", one was clearly sent. And it's obvious that it's one that will just encourage more of this behavior from others. No, there may not be much to be gained in ruining a kid's life. Yet there's a rather large chasm between throwing him in jail for decades and what was essentially a wagging of a finger and admonishment not to do it again to a guy who was giving them the finger as they were handing down the "sentence."

Agreed. I hardly call 'monitoring' a way to rehab this person.

He doesn't necessarily have to be thrown into jail but more should have been done to deter the behavior.

Yep, but Finland as a country has placed more of an emphasis on providing support to its citizens than dealing with criminals.

I can see that. Since it seems like it was largely Americans this kid did crimes against, why should the Finnish care?

 

[puppies]

Exelius[/url]":wfb90742]

THavoc[/url]":wfb90742]

thekaj[/url]":wfb90742]

Petitchka[/url]":wfb90742]

THavoc[/url]":wfb90742]Can someone explain to me why the sentence was so light?

I actually agree with the statement. They DO have free reign to do whatever they want right now.

Finnish jail is rehabilitative, not punitive. Nor is there a goal of "sending the message". Juveniles always walk, since there would be no point to ruining a life. Sentences for computer crime are generally light, and this one took into account his age. (Hufvudstadsbladet)

I guess I question where the rehabilitation is then. If all he gets is a suspended sentence and his activities monitored, then it doesn't sound like there's any effort going into teaching him that what he did was wrong. Considering his very recent comments, that's something that is woefully needed, since he seems to have no remorse, or even concept that what he did was wrong.

Regardless of there not being a goal to "send a message", one was clearly sent. And it's obvious that it's one that will just encourage more of this behavior from others. No, there may not be much to be gained in ruining a kid's life. Yet there's a rather large chasm between throwing him in jail for decades and what was essentially a wagging of a finger and admonishment not to do it again to a guy who was giving them the finger as they were handing down the "sentence."

Agreed. I hardly call 'monitoring' a way to rehab this person.

He doesn't necessarily have to be thrown into jail but more should have been done to deter the behavior.

Yep, but Finland as a country has placed more of an emphasis on providing support to its citizens than dealing with criminals.

The two goals are not mutually exclusive.

 

[foxyshadis]

Mad Postal[/url]":2ik4r461]The BBC has a different take on the story.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-33442419

According to that, it is definitely Julius Kivimaki that was convicted but not all of the charges were fraud or harassment, as the title to this article states. It also mentions that these charges were for crimes committed in 2012 and 2013.

"[The verdict] took into account the young age of the defendant at the time, his capacity to understand the harmfulness of the crimes, and the fact that he had been imprisoned for about a month during the pre-trial investigation," said a statement from the court.

Despite the comments here, this is actually the most likely punishment if he were convicted in the US, as well, short of a prosecutor looking to make a name for himself. (Except he would probably be barred from accessing computers at all during probation.) A month of pre-trial detention then probation might be the most common jail sentence handed out around the country, so as a juvenile he'd get a significant break. An adult would get full Mitnick treatment, of course.