LG TVs’ unremovable Copilot shortcut is the least of smart TVs’ AI problems

LG says it'll let people delete the Copilot icon. But TV chatbots aren't going away.

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[olePigeon]

They're only open if you connect them to the internet. The best thing you can do with any so-called "smart" TV is to leave it disconnected.

Sure, until they partner with Comcast and have them automatically connect to the Comcast wifi signal that is guaranteed to be somewhere within the vicinity.

 

[Unclebugs]

I am loving this series of articles by Scharon Harding on home televisions. I just replaced my 10 year-old Sony with an LG, and the AI bulls**t is quite irritating. Fortunately, I use AppleTVs for all my televisions, four, which really cuts down on the nonsense. Of course Apple is probably collecting something despite the customization that is possible, but I am not getting all the ads, and I don't use voice commands because I refuse to get into a relationship with Siri, and I don't want TVs to be intentionally listening to me when turned on. Call me a tin-foil head person all you want, but I save on power and make sure stuff isn't listening by unpowering all my electronincs when I go to sleep.

 

[Matthew J.]

My, how far webOS has fallen...

 

[Fatesrider]

They're only open if you connect them to the internet. The best thing you can do with any so-called "smart" TV is to leave it disconnected.

I've been turning "Smart TV's" into "Dumb monitor's" for ages. The last time we had a TV that was in any way connect to a cable other than OTA was about fourteen years ago when I cut the cable and started streaming from my computers instead. And by "streaming" that just means hooking it up to a spare HDMI outlet (Or the RCA jacks back then) on the computer.

One doesn't need a connected TV to enjoy content. It was offered as a convenience, until it became a marketing tool. At that point about 50% of the reason why I cut the cord (fucking TV ads) returned, so no, if I don't need to plug the thing into my network, and only my computer to bypass that, I'll do that.

One could probably make a killing making little NUC's that act like a TV remote that streams from an online service to a browser displayed on the computer, without once ever having the TV directly connected to the Internet.

 

[drouu]

blame the typical consumer, who doesn't actually care about anything except "more inches for less money" and is happy to piss away whatever privacy they had for mindless dreck.

 

[balthazarr]

This nonsense needs to die, no one is selling TVs at a loss. The the ads and tracking aren't subsidizing anything. They're just additional profit streams on top of the profit they already made when selling the hardware.

Yeah, this. Also, it turns a once-off income into an ongoing revenue stream... basically wet dreams for the bean counters, so don't expect any of this to stop any time soon.

The only way it's going to stop is for some regulator to step in with strict regulations.

I'd like something along the lines of - no tracking, no installation or pre-installation of apps without the user expressly choosing so ("consent" isn't enough, because they'll bury that in legalese), and no ads inserted by the TV. The TV needs to be a "dumb pipe" for whatever the user chooses to display (and if that includes ads from third-party services... well, boo-hoo to the TV manufacturer - go into ad sales if you can't make [enough] money selling TV hardware).

Australia has already introduced some regulation for Smart TVs - so called "prominence regulations" - which requires the free to air, local station apps to be pre-installed and visible with the same prominence as stuff like Netflix or Prime or whatever other app has paid for placement. https://www.freetv.com.au/45238-2/

I don't fully agree - I'd prefer if apps weren't preinstalled - but it's a start, at least.

 

[drouu]

 

[nijave]

People don't want to pay what the device would cost without the subsidies. Look at TVs sold as commercial signs for a taste.

I paid quite a bit for my LG B7 OLED back in 2018. I don't need them shoveling crap ware onto it 7 years later.

 

[balthazarr]

I paid quite a bit for my LG B7 OLED back in 2018. I don't need them shoveling crap ware onto it 7 years later.

Oh, man, LG have really been pushing the "benefit" of their 5-year Re:New program... "promising users the joy of a new TV experience for the next five years." https://www.lg.com/us/press-release...webos-upgrade-making-their-tvs-feel-brand-new

Imagine being in PR and having to write this vomitous drivel? I guess that'll all be outsourced to AI and instead we'll have vomitous slop soon enough.

 

[mrkite77]

Ever since I saw Jeff Geerling's video on using a commercial signage display as a TV I've had one on my wishlist. Just waiting for my current TV to die really...

 

[train_wreck]

These companies are intent on ‘tush pushing’ their way into our devices, like it or not. Corporations have become ridiculously anti-consumer

100%. They don’t even pretend to care about ethics or customer experience. It’s “F you” all the way down

 

[e.halap]

my (LG) TV doesn't have it. My TV doesn't have Internet access, either. Because fuck you, LG!
And also because Apple TV. What used to be a fancy thing (and access to apps I already use/pay for in my phone) is turning to be a necessity/ last bastion of defence against spam and garbage.

 

[OrvGull]

Sure, until they partner with Comcast and have them automatically connect to the Comcast wifi signal that is guaranteed to be somewhere within the vicinity.

You're right, we should just give up.

 

[Klive Aleksaander]

This kind of unasked for and unwanted automatically installed 'smart' applications is exactly why I've been using a 43 inch LG HDR 4K TV for over five years and never connected it to the interwebs or used any of it's built-in crapware.

It's used as an Airplay second monitor for my Macs and used in conjuction with a Sony Atmos 7.1 surround system for my Apple TV 4Ks, Amazon Prime box, 4K Bluray player and other assorted sources of video and audio goodness. It handles everything I need without the unwanted crap of the native software tyranny.

 

[OrvGull]

View attachment 124570

Upvoting you just because that show is so under-appreciated.

 

[Machupo]

And this is why we have to desolder microphones and cameras from brand new TVs, get a different remote, and blackhole (or creatively route) the network connection.

I love the quality of my LG set, but goodness, why does love have to be so much work?

 

[idontevenexercise]

First thing I do when I buy any of these "smart" TVs is put them on their own isolated VLAN, then approve the ToS so I can start using the TV, and then immediately disconnect them from the Internet. They never get connected again. I don't use any of the garbage software (adware/spyware) on them anyway.

One of these days a TV manufacturer will release TVs that are Internet connected, with an open-source OS, and completely devoid of any bloatware/adware/spyware as a selling point. They will probably cost a bit more. But that day is not today.

 

[LeftCoastRusty]

SOME people don’t want this in their TV? Let’s be honest and say the VAST MAJORITY of people don’t want this on their TV.

 

[SportivoA]

One of these days a TV manufacturer will release TVs that are Internet connected, with an open-source OS, and completely devoid of any bloatware/adware/spyware as a selling point. They will probably cost a bit more. But that day is not today.

Alas, that's probably also against the wishes of and contract with their best buddy and patent pool holder, the HDMI LA. Then the world might know a bit more about how the closed standard works.

 

[johnny.5]

blame the typical consumer, who doesn't actually care about anything except "more inches for less money" and is happy to piss away whatever privacy they had for mindless dreck.

The typical consumer almost certainly doesn't understand any of the problems that come with Smart TVs. Go ahead and walk around Best Buy or Walmart and ask people shopping TVs if they know what ACR is and let us know the numbers. Believe it or not, a lot of people simply have not the time or energy to invest in keeping up with all this underhanded bullshit and simply buy what's in their budget that suits their current needs. Want to blame someone? Blame LG, Microsoft, hell blame your legislators for not doing enough to hold them accountable.

 

[approximate_pi]

I wonder if/when they'll figure out how to grab the internet connection from the streaming box via the HDMI plug.

That would require the device that has internet to have the ethernet stack enabled for HDMI and to be configured to route that traffic, unlikely amount of work

I’d be more worried about the TV manufacturers either using thread (since most thread border routers, including Apple’s [aTV/homepods/etc], dont expose any firewall options) or a satellite or cell link to get around network restrictions than HDMI

 

[Varste]

I recently got a Sony Bravia and Nvidia Shield, and the TV is not on the wifi. Honestly a bit surprised the TV is useable without a network connection. We'll see if that helps in any way.

 

[bdrram03]

I've seen a few YouTube videos of people converting their TVs back to dumb TVs by ripping out the insides and installing generic universal driver board. It takes a bit of hackery (ports don't line up and everything.) I could see a market for drop-in "dumb" replacements for popular TV models and brands.

Rooted my LG oled and disabled updates, all i needed was a usb flash drive

 

[MrFission]

LG's AI is the first thing I disabled as it kept popping up while I was working.

 

[breze]

Sorry, but that's not how the economics of TV manufacturing works.

The profit from third party income, from data brokers, from streaming services for placement, and for other applications (such as Copilot), absolutely dwarfs the potential profit from the hardware, and allows the TV manufacturers to sell the TVs below cost.

Note: I worked for a TV manufacturer for a while, so that's solid information.

Whether or not it is below cost, I have no idea. It definitely seems to be money they aren’t willing to leave on the table!

I think the bigger issue is that this hides pricing transparency. Most of us don’t know how much our privacy violations go for. I actually think this is a much bigger problem than it seems: the hypothesis that free markets result in efficient pricing relies on the buyers being able to shop around and make informed pricing decisions. This is how supply and demand works.

The suppliers in our market seem to want inefficient pricing. They don’t want the best product to win, they want to get more than they’ve earned. It’s an anti-free-market swindle.

Anything ad supported, I strongly suspect of being essentially a scam (in the sense that the true price is not shown).

 

[Ragashingo]

How long do you reckon it’s going to be before TV’s start randomly popping up text in the middle of of watching saying “This TV isn’t connected to the Internet, please connect it to install important updates.”

Like... 5 years ago. Sometimes my Amazon Fire branded Toshiba would just randomly pop open an entire web browser to complain about no internet access.

 

[johnnoi]

devices aren't devices anymore, they are doors, doors wide open for companies to dump their dung in your living room.

My Sharp TV died and nobody will fix a TV that is 15 years or less in age. I'd heard about all this AI shit being in new TVs and when I asked about a dumb TV the store guy looked at me like I was nuts. He pretty much walked away from me so I had to get a different salesperson to deal with. I got the biggest cheapest LG I could find and never let it go online. I pretty much just use it as a monitor which is what I would have gotten if a 55" monitor didn't cost the price of a mortgage. Whatever updates are out there are pretty much meaningless anyhow since new TVs are only designed to last 10 years.

 

[Gandhim3]

Here is a good start -

On your router's block list, add the domains:

us.ad.lgsmartad.com
us.info.lgsmartad.com
ngfts.lge.com
lgad.cjpowercast.com
edgesuite.net

On your LG TV -

Press the settings button
Tap on all settings and select the general menu
Then click on the system and choose additional settings
Click the home setting and turn off the home auto launch and home promotion.


For Live Plus, follow these steps –

Press the settings button
From that select the all-setting option
Then choose general
Now click on the live plus and turn off the toggle

Finally, for those who already connected their TV to the internet and now want to opt out, send a request to LG through the TV itself -

Press the settings button
Select support.
Scroll down to privacy & terms
Scroll down and toggle on do not sell my personal information.
Scroll down to delete my personal information and select delete all three - viewing, voice and voice ID

The. Disconnect your Lg TV from the internet and hook up and Apple TV for streaming

It’s not gonna solve this new CoPilot issue, but at least it will stop tracking.

 

[johnnoi]

Right now Office 365 is selectively running an add (Pop up Window) to try to get you to talk to Copilot Chat whenever you open a document in Word or Excel. You can't turn it off, you can't disable Copilot in options like you used to, and you can't remove chat history within those respective apps if you do use it. Fun.

This is why I use Linux and display it through my LG tv that has no access to the internet. I use Libre Office for the little that I need an office app. And it's free with no ads.

 

[johnnoi]

Sorry, but that's not how the economics of TV manufacturing works.

The profit from third party income, from data brokers, from streaming services for placement, and for other applications (such as Copilot), absolutely dwarfs the potential profit from the hardware, and allows the TV manufacturers to sell the TVs below cost.

Note: I worked for a TV manufacturer for a while, so that's solid information.

BS, I just did a little search for 55" computer monitors and they're out there, cheaper than the new LG 55" tv I just bought. Sure you can pay 3 grand for one but you can pay that much for a TV too. I bought the cheapest biggest LG I could get. I would have bought the monitor if there was one close to where I live. Fuck smart TV or for that matter fuck all smart appliances.

 

[el_oscuro]

You lost me at Alexa. Sure, it's a couple generations older than Copilot or whatever, but it's still a thing that spies on you and sends your voice and your data to Big Tech data centers where you have no control over what happens to it. No thank you.

Disclaimer: I worked on Alexa, briefly, in 2017.

So true. About that time, I was part of a red team, white hat hackers. People who know how this stuff works. And some of them were thinking about getting an Alexa. I was like "Why do you want that? You know it is going to spy on you."

 

[el_oscuro]

Sure, until they partner with Comcast and have them automatically connect to the Comcast wifi signal that is guaranteed to be somewhere within the vicinity.

They don't even need to do that. They could just connect directly to the cellular network without going through WiFi like the sleep apnea machines do.

 

[adamsc]

They don't even need to do that. They could just connect directly to the cellular network without going through WiFi like the sleep apnea machines do.

Technically, yes, but remember that this is all about scrounging extra profit. TVs are very price competitive and they’re not putting a 5G modem in, getting it certified, etc. if they don’t have to because that adds extra parts to each unit which would mostly be unnecessary. Getting in bed with Comcast, et al. uses the Wi-Fi hardware they were already shipping and I’d bet that they can find a revenue sharing agreement since all of the parties involved want to know what you’re watching and could not care less about your privacy.

 

[Aelix]

Really wish Apple would make an Apple TV so I don’t need an Apple TV to watch Apple TV on my no-internet TV.

 

[filekutter]

I've gotten used to NOT having a TV. I get everything I need with my computer and have been doing it for years. The few times I"ve seen TV over the years the commercials make me sick.. along with most TV fare is pure garbage anyway. But, now that streaming is starting to use ads too, and I'm NOT putting more money into any streamer... well, Peacock for instance, will never be used. It's an insult. The last couple years and mostly with the orange anus in the white house, corporations have changed and now treat us even more as cattle; dumb things that need to eat their products to be entertained. Well, they can kiss my ass. And a 'smart' tv? Fuck that.

 

[anonymous9000]

My LG C2 55" is very likely the last TV I would ever own. Getting non-paid streaming to work is such a PITA in terms of ad spam or ease-of-use that I rarely used it for the past 3 years. Its only used by my mom as a dumb TV to watch broadcasts now.

 

[DaveSimmons]

Despite some minor image retention I noticed last night, I'm really glad my final-gen dumb-as-a-post plasma does all I ask of it:

Turn on.
Display video.
Turn off.

My "smart" LG OLED from 2017 works exactly the same way because I've never connected it to the internet.

I used to use a Fire YV box and Xbox One for streaming but upgraded to Apple TV this year

If LG starts refusing to display without internet when I need a new TV, I'll try to find a TV without that nonsense.

 

[DaveSimmons]

Sure, until they partner with Comcast and have them automatically connect to the Comcast wifi signal that is guaranteed to be somewhere within the vicinity.

Quite possible especially for the $90 vizio / sceptre / magnetbox TVs, but unlikely to happen for every TV brand.

 

[philipjohnstephens]

Sorry, but that's not how the economics of TV manufacturing works.

The profit from third party income, from data brokers, from streaming services for placement, and for other applications (such as Copilot), absolutely dwarfs the potential profit from the hardware, and allows the TV manufacturers to sell the TVs below cost.

Note: I worked for a TV manufacturer for a while, so that's solid information.

It doesn't change the fact that nothing that LG does in an effort to monetize me beyond having purchased the TV years ago will work. They have not made a penny from me since then, and that is a 100% verifiable fact. I don't use webOS for anything beyond launching a few curated apps. I don't pay attention to anything else that shows up on the webOS screen. I won't be clicking on any CoPilot button, let alone even notice that it is there. So if LG's business model is to try to recoup the cost of the hardware through crap like AI, they will fail on this customer. Completely. 100% fail.