From <em>Akalabeth</em> to <em>Xenobia</em>, many rare PC titles are now considered elaborate scams.
Read the whole story
Read the whole story
That doesn't mean the fakes identified actually sold for that much at the time. Unless you managed to use it as collateral for a loan, you're only out the price you paid not what it's "valued" at currently.Per the second paragraph: "Collectors estimate that those trades and sales include games that would be valued at well over $100,000 total on the open market if they were authentic."So these guys with the "fakes" are out what, 10's of dollars? 100's? 1000's? would have been nice if the article mentioned the monetary values of the games.
Or as usual did i miss it in the article?
Not that long. CGC was founded in 2000 -- not coincidentally after the speculation bubble of the '90s burst.Yes, but then again, no. For other comparable markets that are more mature, there exist independent third party grading services, like CGC for comic books. The people doing the grading, which involves determining if the items have been restored, have been tampered with or are just plain fakes do it for a living and have for a long time.If you're the go-to-guy for spotting fakes, of COURSE your stuff will always be legit, right?
Who Watches the Watchmen?
This is an ongoing problem in other collecting communities, especially ones with lots of older "experts" who built most of their collections in the pre-internet era.
The thing to keep in mind is that even the "experts" are, by definition, amateurs. These are just people who are really interested in a thing and gather together a ton of knowledge about the thing. And that's a lot of work, so eventually once a community decides that someone is an expert they become an authority figure. It's a lot easier to trust an authority figure that everyone believes really knows this stuff than to do the hard work of gathering all that information yourself.
Spot the differences is fun! The books IN THE DISPUTED BAGGIES are different! You can see the right side printing, the bottom edge of the main graphic, terminates in a different spot, so it has a different shape on the edge. He clearly sent a different copy, if not a prepped copy. The fact that he mentioned a new bag without pointing out a completely different book is a bad sign, imo.
That doesn't mean the fakes identified actually sold for that much at the time. Unless you managed to use it as collateral for a loan, you're only out the price you paid not what it's "valued" at currently.Per the second paragraph: "Collectors estimate that those trades and sales include games that would be valued at well over $100,000 total on the open market if they were authentic."So these guys with the "fakes" are out what, 10's of dollars? 100's? 1000's? would have been nice if the article mentioned the monetary values of the games.
Or as usual did i miss it in the article?
Even if it *was* just the bag, swapping out anything from "as pictured" without directly calling it out is sketchy as fuck.It seems to me that admitting he switched the bags makes Ricciardi more suspicious, not less.
His argument there is essentially that he switched one thing, but some other person in the chain switched all the other things. Something something Occam's razor.
I imagine this is also prevalent in the tabletop game collecting (if that is a thing). Several years ago I was hunting for an old copy of a Steve Jackson game that was out of print. I loved it when I was a kid and wanted to share the experience with my son. I finally found a copy on Ebay that was not advertised as a bootleg, but after getting it and with close inspection I could tell it was not original. For this case though I didn't care. I just wanted to play the game.
Car Wars??
I admit the circumstances seem pretty suspicious, although I'm curious why he would duplicate authentic games that he received - so he could have his cake and sell it on as well? Or is there some thriving black market of video games that he was also selling on?
I'd even go with the small CD cases and an actual piece of media, which could be installed or run without needing internet access.I wish games still came in giant cardboard boxes with manuals and random swag
What is a good place to list old games ?
I have mint/sealed copies of Ultima Underworld 1 / 2 (open) & some other looking glass games that I bought back in the day & forgot about (Thief 1/2)
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Putting a very obviously cracked copy of Xenobia on the fake then seems like an incredibly stupid thing to do. If his supposed original was already opened, he could have used that tape to make a copy from.I admit the circumstances seem pretty suspicious, although I'm curious why he would duplicate authentic games that he received - so he could have his cake and sell it on as well? Or is there some thriving black market of video games that he was also selling on?
Yeah the general (alleged) idea is that you keep the rare original, then trade fakes for other originals, and pretty soon you have a great, authentic collection that's worth a lot!
Also works if you just sell the fakes and use the money for more rare game purchases (or just living life...)
This reminds me of a (I believe contested now) book I read called <i>The Billionaire's Vinegar</i> about alleged wine forgery in the highest circles. The book made a very strong case for it, but the alleged forger has of course denied it all. He is/was also regarded as The Authority on those wines.
What is a good place to list old games ?
I have mint/sealed copies of Ultima Underworld 1 / 2 (open) & some other looking glass games that I bought back in the day & forgot about (Thief 1/2)
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I have the same question...where is a legitimate place to list & sell old PC games (and hopefully something better than fleabay). FWIW, I have a sealed / never-played (but obscure) game that I'm thinking about unloading. And I know it's provenance is impeccable, as I was a member of the development team!
craig's listing
Checks out.wound up dealing with kooks.
I never knew this was a thing. Makes me wonder if there are a big forgery/fake scenes for other nerd hobbies. Like, are there fakes of, say, Detective Comics #1 or early Gundam action figures? If yes, have there been similar scandals?
I never knew this was a thing. Makes me wonder if there are a big forgery/fake scenes for other nerd hobbies. Like, are there fakes of, say, Detective Comics #1 or early Gundam action figures? If yes, have there been similar scandals?
I can't understand the collector mindset. If I can't use it, I don't want it. Why would you want to saddle yourself with more junk? Yes, it's junk, almost zero utility. I can understand a museum collection, with a clear purpose to share the material for public edification. I can understand a scholarly interest, to study what was made and how. I can understand the financial aspect, although there are ways to invest that actually benefit society. This hoarding obsession is pure waste; waste of time, waste of money, waste of space.
Putting a very obviously cracked copy of Xenobia on the fake then seems like an incredibly stupid thing to do. If his supposed original was already opened, he could have used that tape to make a copy from.I admit the circumstances seem pretty suspicious, although I'm curious why he would duplicate authentic games that he received - so he could have his cake and sell it on as well? Or is there some thriving black market of video games that he was also selling on?
Yeah the general (alleged) idea is that you keep the rare original, then trade fakes for other originals, and pretty soon you have a great, authentic collection that's worth a lot!
Also works if you just sell the fakes and use the money for more rare game purchases (or just living life...)
Either he thought the buyer wouldn't actually try to read the tape, in which case, why bother with the cracked version which would fool nobody. Or his supposed original" s also a fake, in which case he made a fake from a fake that he believed to be an original.
You know how you're complaining about stuff on the comments of an online article?I can't understand the collector mindset. If I can't use it, I don't want it. Why would you want to saddle yourself with more junk? Yes, it's junk, almost zero utility. I can understand a museum collection, with a clear purpose to share the material for public edification. I can understand a scholarly interest, to study what was made and how. I can understand the financial aspect, although there are ways to invest that actually benefit society. This hoarding obsession is pure waste; waste of time, waste of money, waste of space.
But when comparing a suspected forgery how confident can you be that the reference material is an original, and not itself a forgery? (Obvious issues like ink dots on printed scanned copies notwithstanding, of course.) I mean, if the reference material is from the personal collection of a team member who published the game, that's one thing. But even then you're still relying on that person's honesty, to some degree .Spot the differences is fun! The books IN THE DISPUTED BAGGIES are different! You can see the right side printing, the bottom edge of the main graphic, terminates in a different spot, so it has a different shape on the edge. He clearly sent a different copy, if not a prepped copy. The fact that he mentioned a new bag without pointing out a completely different book is a bad sign, imo.
Putting a very obviously cracked copy of Xenobia on the fake then seems like an incredibly stupid thing to do. If his supposed original was already opened, he could have used that tape to make a copy from.I admit the circumstances seem pretty suspicious, although I'm curious why he would duplicate authentic games that he received - so he could have his cake and sell it on as well? Or is there some thriving black market of video games that he was also selling on?
Yeah the general (alleged) idea is that you keep the rare original, then trade fakes for other originals, and pretty soon you have a great, authentic collection that's worth a lot!
Also works if you just sell the fakes and use the money for more rare game purchases (or just living life...)
Either he thought the buyer wouldn't actually try to read the tape, in which case, why bother with the cracked version which would fool nobody. Or his supposed original" s also a fake, in which case he made a fake from a fake that he believed to be an original.
Xenobia was on a disk, not a tape.
I suppose the forger could have just given a blank disk or a disk with junk data (as with the cassette tape game discussed in the article). But with a cracked version on there I guess if you're found out it's easier to say "Oh when I tested the game it loaded just fine and I guess I missed the crack screen that someone else put on there."
As for "making a fake from a fake" the forger almost certainly just put a cracked copy from the Internet on the disk -- having access to the original didn't matter. And the whole point of the copy protection on the original disk is that you can't just make an authentic-looking copy of the data without cracking it (though maybe modern tools could copy the data undetectably -- I'm not actually clear on that)
I can't understand the collector mindset. If I can't use it, I don't want it. Why would you want to saddle yourself with more junk? Yes, it's junk, almost zero utility.
I was going to suggest pricecharting.com as well. They are a very reputable site for retro console games - I actually first got the name of the site from one of the retro games stores here, it's the site they generally use for pricing. With their free account, you can enter, track, and price your own collection for free. They offer paid accounts with more features, but the free account has always worked for me.What is a good place to list old games ?
I have mint/sealed copies of Ultima Underworld 1 / 2 (open) & some other looking glass games that I bought back in the day & forgot about (Thief 1/2)
![]()
I have the same question...where is a legitimate place to list & sell old PC games (and hopefully something better than fleabay). FWIW, I have a sealed / never-played (but obscure) game that I'm thinking about unloading. And I know it's provenance is impeccable, as I was a member of the development team!
I used this site to gauge prices & I don't know if those prices are accurate
https://www.pricecharting.com
On my craig's listing, I posted pix & a link to above so anyone could check prices & make a fair offer
The only caveat was
1. Call to verify you are a legit buyer
2. Swing by to look at the games & make a yes/no decision while at my home & no checks/money order b.s
3. No trades/tats or any crap.
.....and I wound up dealing with kooks.
Though I did sell my entire PS2 collection, many of which were still sealed to a very nice couple, who will enjoy them
Are people stupid and believing this "Mister X" crap? WTF is wrong with people, and when you pay 100k, you should get a chain of custody and certificate of previous owners etc.
Lol that is at least normal for expensive cars, watches etc. If someone says "here is a Rolex for 500k but I got it from an anonymous person sending via PO box YOLO" and "even though I got it original boxing, but I changed it haha, no biggie" maybe stay away from the trade.
Kyle weren't you going to write an article about scam auctions and price fixing in the retro console space after your last two articles on million dollar auctions were roundly criticized by the Ars community? Yet here you are linking them again and passing them off as legit.
Huh, you're right. Looks like an 1/8" or so of the right side is missing. Also the fold on the other side isn't in exactly the same place - like a mm or 2 less image.Spot the differences is fun! The books IN THE DISPUTED BAGGIES are different! You can see the right side printing, the bottom edge of the main graphic, terminates in a different spot, so it has a different shape on the edge. He clearly sent a different copy, if not a prepped copy. The fact that he mentioned a new bag without pointing out a completely different book is a bad sign, imo.
Right, missed the fact it was on a disc. But, as for the copy protection on the disc... While I can't speak for the Apple ][ scene, I can speak for the C64 and Amiga ones, and there were a lot of disc copying tools even back then that could bypass a lot of copy protection schemes. They were often just using some extra tracks, or faking being "bad" tracks.Putting a very obviously cracked copy of Xenobia on the fake then seems like an incredibly stupid thing to do. If his supposed original was already opened, he could have used that tape to make a copy from.I admit the circumstances seem pretty suspicious, although I'm curious why he would duplicate authentic games that he received - so he could have his cake and sell it on as well? Or is there some thriving black market of video games that he was also selling on?
Yeah the general (alleged) idea is that you keep the rare original, then trade fakes for other originals, and pretty soon you have a great, authentic collection that's worth a lot!
Also works if you just sell the fakes and use the money for more rare game purchases (or just living life...)
Either he thought the buyer wouldn't actually try to read the tape, in which case, why bother with the cracked version which would fool nobody. Or his supposed original" s also a fake, in which case he made a fake from a fake that he believed to be an original.
Xenobia was on a disk, not a tape.
I suppose the forger could have just given a blank disk or a disk with junk data (as with the cassette tape game discussed in the article). But with a cracked version on there I guess if you're found out it's easier to say "Oh when I tested the game it loaded just fine and I guess I missed the crack screen that someone else put on there."
As for "making a fake from a fake" the forger almost certainly just put a cracked copy from the Internet on the disk -- having access to the original didn't matter. And the whole point of the copy protection on the original disk is that you can't just make an authentic-looking copy of the data without cracking it (though maybe modern tools could copy the data undetectably -- I'm not actually clear on that)
I never knew this was a thing. Makes me wonder if there are a big forgery/fake scenes for other nerd hobbies. Like, are there fakes of, say, Detective Comics #1 or early Gundam action figures? If yes, have there been similar scandals?
Kyle weren't you going to write an article about scam auctions and price fixing in the retro console space after your last two articles on million dollar auctions were roundly criticized by the Ars community? Yet here you are linking them again and passing them off as legit.
Link to where Kyle & his editors accepted the premise that his previous work was not "legit," please.
After hearing reader feedback, we will be expanding on our previous coverage of Wata Games and Halperin, and further examining the allegations of ethical breaches by Wata and others in the game collecting community. Look for a report here on Ars in the future.
I imagine this is also prevalent in the tabletop game collecting (if that is a thing). Several years ago I was hunting for an old copy of a Steve Jackson game that was out of print. I loved it when I was a kid and wanted to share the experience with my son. I finally found a copy on Ebay that was not advertised as a bootleg, but after getting it and with close inspection I could tell it was not original. For this case though I didn't care. I just wanted to play the game.
Car Wars??
Those are two very different skill sets. The latter, making the electronic content of a computer floppy disk look and behave like a pristine original disk requires knowledge of how to make such a copy (and the tools to do so), and most importantly, you have to have an actual original to duplicate. Probably this is what he was missing, though I suppose it’s possible he lacks the knowledge.What doesn’t really go together is the effort and criminal energy it took to counterfeit the disks and the paper on the on hand and then to overlook the obvious „cracked by“ title screen in the software on the other hand.