Hands-on with the iPad Pro, its keyboard, and its pencil

Imagine an iPad. Now imagine that it's bigger.

Read the whole story

 

[FoxBJK]

Wow, the Apple Pencil is a lot bigger than I expected it to be! I guess I just assumed it'd be the size of a #2

 

[PrcStinator]

Not a bad proposition, keyboard looks ok. I can see this working for alot of people and even swaying some from buying a plain macbook, seems to be in direct competition with the Surface Pro, which is also a good thing I guess

 

[ssiu]

Is there palm rejection when writing/drawing with the "pencil"? (Is that part of the OS feature, or each app has to implement it?)

 

[thomsirveaux]

ssiu[/url]":glh74uql]Is there palm rejection when writing/drawing with the "pencil"? (Is that part of the OS feature, or each app has to implement it?)

Yeah. The guy running the demo basically rested his whole forearm on the screen at one point and it was totally fine.

 

[gekigangerv]

Isn't the Apple Pencil $99?

 

[theSeb]

gekigangerv[/url]":2rrproeu]Isn't the Apple Pencil $99?

The article says 69 and then mentions 99. I am pretty sure that you're right.

 

[H2O Rip]

The thing Apple has that Microsoft doesn't is the App Store, which by November will already be full of apps that can take full advantage of iOS 9's Split View mode and other multitasking features.

As opposed to every windows program in existence?
I get the app store advantage on mobile as a pretty huge win, however when comparing it to a full fledge x86 machine I'm not sure I agree. You could say they are systems designed in a touch environment entirely as opposed to those designed around M&K, but with a surface I've found you just use what you need to when you need to (M&K when using as a laptop, touch when using as a tablet). Of course for those invested in the ios ecosystem entirely, the app store could be a win certainly. At least I assume there's some kind of syncing between apps you buy on your iphone and ones that would appear here.


Kind of scratching my head right now otherwise. The stylus in particular, I wonder how popular they'll actually be to sell. Figured they'd be some kind of metal for that price. And the first picture....it definitely looks like a big tablet.

 

[Superman Pants]

ssiu[/url]":32uh9ttm]Is there palm rejection when writing/drawing with the "pencil"? (Is that part of the OS feature, or each app has to implement it?)

Based on previous styli, I'm guessing palm rejection is part of the app. Also, palm rejection seems to be confirmed by the demo videos on Apple's site.

 

[doubleyewdee]

[full disclosure: I work at Microsoft so I've obviously got some bias based on personal use, although my daily phone is an iPhone 6+ fwiw]

I don't get who this is for right now. In particular I don't see it as a direct Surface competitor for a few reasons:
1) It's not a laptop/desktop OS. This matters because it means you can't run things like an IDE, desktop-class image software (Photoshop etc), Office suites, etc. No doubt some vendors will improve their offerings for the Pro variant if/when it sells well but things like IDEs are, to the best of my knowledge, basically forbidden on iOS and I don't see that changing.
2) It's missing some useful stuff like enterprise integration, or I missed that announcement.
3) There's no mousing support -- this matters a lot for a reasonable set of folks although the stylus helps alleviate some of that.

Then add on that the accessory costs are already higher than the cost for Surface accessories (and the Surface keyboard includes a touchpad that, if not perfect, is at least serviceable) and I get a bit more confused.

In terms of the stylus: how pressure sensitive is it? Is there more than the "hard vs. soft" press? How does it compare to the digitizer in a Surface/Pro? That will, I guess, matter a great deal for artists.

 

[Mitlov]

The thing Apple has that Microsoft doesn't is the App Store, which by November will already be full of apps that can take full advantage of iOS 9's Split View mode and other multitasking features.

But if you upgrade that Surface Pro to Windows 10, Snap Assist and Task View make touch interactions with desktop apps, including split-screen multitasking, much easier than it was in Windows 8 (where the Desktop and Metro were two separate worlds, one meant solely for KB&M and one meant solely for touch). Any Windows desktop software can take advantage of the touch-friendly Snap Assist with Windows 10; it's not a feature relegated to Metro apps anymore. I'm not convinced that an iPad Pro does a better job of multi-window multitasking than a Surface Pro 3 running Windows 10 does.

Snap Assist on a Surface 3 running Windows 10: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bk8yTBLEj3c

 

[SiberX]

I'm not seeing any info on it, but my assumption is that the stylus does not support hover (owing to its mobile pedigree); can anybody confirm either way?

Looks like an active capacitive stylus of some type - I'd like to know more about what kind of pressure sensitivity and tilt range/levels it supports, as well as how input latency is on the device (hard to tell with the short quick strokes demonstrated in the video)

 

[MonkeyPaw]

For anyone who liked to complain about the price and lack of inclusion for Surface accessories, there's Apple. This should only further justify MS's current pricing model.

 

[Brendan McKinley]

The $99 accessory is made primarily of white plastic that actually looks more like an Apple accessory from a decade ago during the company's "white plastic" phase. The pen is light and easy to hold but a bit glossy and slippery and it doesn't fit in particularly well with the rest of the iPad's design.

If you're wondering why the Apple Pencil is plastic, think about what could happen when you drop it on to that beautiful, expensive display glass if they had made it out of metal.

 

[SiberX]

Brendan McKinley[/url]":2valejjx]

The $99 accessory is made primarily of white plastic that actually looks more like an Apple accessory from a decade ago during the company's "white plastic" phase. The pen is light and easy to hold but a bit glossy and slippery and it doesn't fit in particularly well with the rest of the iPad's design.

If you're wondering why the Apple Pencil is plastic, think about what could happen when you drop it on to that beautiful, expensive display glass if they had made it out of metal.

The SP3 pen is primarily made of metal and I haven't heard any real reports of frequent glass breakage as a result. The pen is a better feeling device as a result.

 

[thomsirveaux]

gekigangerv[/url]":2giyvzqh]Isn't the Apple Pencil $99?

Dumb typo, fixed it.

 

[BioTurboNick]

Mitlov[/url]":2htffv69]

The thing Apple has that Microsoft doesn't is the App Store, which by November will already be full of apps that can take full advantage of iOS 9's Split View mode and other multitasking features.

But if you upgrade that Surface Pro to Windows 10, Snap Assist and Task View make touch interactions with desktop apps, including split-screen multitasking, much easier than it was in Windows 8 (where the Desktop and Metro were two separate worlds, one meant solely for KB&M and one meant solely for touch). Any Windows desktop software can take advantage of the touch-friendly Snap Assist with Windows 10; it's not a feature relegated to Metro apps anymore. I'm not convinced that an iPad Pro does a better job of multi-window multitasking than a Surface Pro 3 running Windows 10 does.

Snap Assist on a Surface 3 running Windows 10: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bk8yTBLEj3c

Except for touch-drag of managing multiple apps on the screen... hopefully coming this fall.

 

[sonolumi]

H2O Rip[/url]":17darj4p]

The thing Apple has that Microsoft doesn't is the App Store, which by November will already be full of apps that can take full advantage of iOS 9's Split View mode and other multitasking features.

As opposed to every windows program in existence?

Yeah, I was a little confused by Andrew's slightly narrow view (no offense intended).

Almost everything I use on a day to day basis on my Windows desktops and laptops will run on a Surface Pro. This inoperability without kludges or cut down app versions is a boon to business as it is to the home user.

I'm hoping somewhere on the cards, held closely to Apple's chest naturally, is OSX (+iOS capability) on a future iteration of the iPad Pro. If that's the case, and I would be very surprised if Apple haven't looked into it, then the first iPad Pro is a good toe in the water to see if there's a demand for a desktop capable Apple tablet. A tablet that runs all your iPhone apps AND fully fledged desktop software, that would be a huge deal-maker.

 

[chalex]

Well, Apple does need to give people a good reason to upgrade from their existing regular iPad. So here's a bigger iPad! They're competing with their own excellent last-generation devices.

 

[bvz_1]

Are we looking at the future of the Macintosh here? As the iPads become more and more powerful (with custom chips from Apple) and the OS starts to become more and more geared towards productivity and content production (vs. primarily focused on consumption)... the lines between a "desktop" mac (really, their notebooks) and the iPad with external keyboards and pointing devices starts to become vanishingly small.

There is some convergence starting to become very apparent here. I expect that in a few years (maybe more than just a few, but within the next 5 years at least) there will be no more Macintoshes as we know them. They will simply be special cases of the iOS ecosystem.

 

[SiberX]

bvz_1[/url]":29gkuyj1]I bought a surface pro 3 a while back and it was a nightmare (I think the hardware was actually defective as it kept losing my touches and drags half way through). The worst offender was the OS which was confused as to whether it was a table or a PC. I returned and and eagerly awaited the new iPad Pro which would come out with a stylus and larger screen but have a full, touch-first interface.

The funny thing is, now that there is an iPad Pro, the price of it makes me want to look into another Surface. Windows 10 seems like a huge improvement over 8. The ability to become a full desktop machine seems like an advantage (to me). I wonder if, dollar for dollar, I wouldn't be happier with the Surface.

1) If you suspected the device was defective, why didn't you return it for a working one?
2) Windows 8 (and 8.1)'s problem was that it was too touch-centric, not that it had a tablet/PC identity crisis. It worked great on slates (like the SP3) but treated desktops and traditional notebooks as second class citizens. Win10 largely resolves this, and allows the OS to operate usably on either touch or mouse & keyboard hardware. Why would Win10 change your opinions if what you want is exactly what Win8 already focused on?

 

[LtWiggledworth]

Just putting it out there, but that looks like an atrocious method of charging the stylus.
I would have expected apple of all people to engineer something better than sticking a giant fucking pen out the bottom of the iPad.

 

[Elindalyne]

I'm going to leave this here...

Also... $1358 for a 128 GB model vs $899... I hope the extra $350 for a neutered OS will be worth it.

 

[thomsirveaux]

bvz_1[/url]":3oa90u5g]Are we looking at the future of the Macintosh here? As the iPads become more and more powerful (with custom chips from Apple) and the OS starts to become more and more geared towards productivity and content production (vs. primarily focused on consumption)... the lines between a "desktop" mac (really, their notebooks) and the iPad with external keyboards and pointing devices starts to become vanishingly small.

There is some convergence starting to become very apparent here. I expect that in a few years (maybe more than just a few, but within the next 5 years at least) there will be no more Macintoshes as we know them. They will simply be special cases of the iOS ecosystem.

I'd look at the iPad Pro and the 2015 MacBook as the future of Apple's lineup - growing a little closer together but still retaining a clear split between the two.

 

[Superman Pants]

Should be really interesting to see what music production apps do with the 3D Touch feature. Keyboard aftertouch will be a biggie.

 

[cremebluray]

LtWiggledworth[/url]":1ctfnxue]Just putting it out there, but that looks like an atrocious method of charging the stylus.
I would have expected apple of all people to engineer something better than sticking a giant fucking pen out the bottom of the iPad.

Well, technically it's a pencil because "if you see a stylus, they blew it."

 

[LtWiggledworth]

Elindalyne[/url]":3smfnkdg]I'm going to leave this here...

Surprisingly prescient. Written exactly 3 years ago.

 

[LtWiggledworth]

cremebluray[/url]":1eguhjd3]

LtWiggledworth[/url]":1eguhjd3]Just putting it out there, but that looks like an atrocious method of charging the stylus.
I would have expected apple of all people to engineer something better than sticking a giant fucking pen out the bottom of the iPad.

Well, technically it's a pencil because "if you see a stylus, they blew it."

Po-tay-to, Po-tah-to.

 

[fizzlefist]

And they said the Surface Keyboard Covers were expensive... I mean, they're still not wrong, but damn. You can almost buy a refurbished iPad Mini for the price of one of those keyboards.

 

[sonolumi]

thomsirveaux[/url]":28gilzpk]

sonolumi[/url]":28gilzpk]

H2O Rip[/url]":28gilzpk]

The thing Apple has that Microsoft doesn't is the App Store, which by November will already be full of apps that can take full advantage of iOS 9's Split View mode and other multitasking features.

As opposed to every windows program in existence?

Yeah, I was a little confused by Andrew's slightly narrow view (no offense intended).

Almost everything I use on a day to day basis on my Windows desktops and laptops will run on a Surface Pro. This inoperability without kludges or cut down app versions is a boon to business as it is to the home user.

I'm hoping somewhere on the cards, held closely to Apple's chest naturally, is OSX (+iOS capability) on a future iteration of the iPad Pro. If that's the case, and I would be very surprised if Apple haven't looked into it, then the first iPad Pro is a good toe in the water to see if there's a demand for a desktop capable Apple tablet. A tablet that runs all your iPhone apps AND fully fledged desktop software, that would be a huge deal-maker.

Point being that iOS' apps are going to be optimized for stylus AND touch the way that "every Windows program in existence" isn't. IMO it makes the most sense to use the Surface as a computer replacement that happens to be able to do some tablet-y things, but the iPad Pro can be equal parts tablet and computer (excepting some developer-centric things someone else mentioned, like IDE support. Where's Xcode for iOS, I wonder?)

Yes, I did wonder if that was you reasoning. It's a valid point. A stylus in the general, not app specific, Windows environment is not the best. I hope that is something Microsoft is working to improve. And also that Apple have some sort of ability to run OSX software with or alongside iOS in the works.

 

[Penguin Warlord]

thomsirveaux[/url]":3jaqi93f]

sonolumi[/url]":3jaqi93f]

H2O Rip[/url]":3jaqi93f]

The thing Apple has that Microsoft doesn't is the App Store, which by November will already be full of apps that can take full advantage of iOS 9's Split View mode and other multitasking features.

As opposed to every windows program in existence?

Yeah, I was a little confused by Andrew's slightly narrow view (no offense intended).

Almost everything I use on a day to day basis on my Windows desktops and laptops will run on a Surface Pro. This inoperability without kludges or cut down app versions is a boon to business as it is to the home user.

I'm hoping somewhere on the cards, held closely to Apple's chest naturally, is OSX (+iOS capability) on a future iteration of the iPad Pro. If that's the case, and I would be very surprised if Apple haven't looked into it, then the first iPad Pro is a good toe in the water to see if there's a demand for a desktop capable Apple tablet. A tablet that runs all your iPhone apps AND fully fledged desktop software, that would be a huge deal-maker.

Point being that iOS' apps are going to be optimized for stylus AND touch the way that "every Windows program in existence" isn't. IMO it makes the most sense to use the Surface as a computer replacement that happens to be able to do some tablet-y things, but the iPad Pro can be equal parts tablet and computer (excepting some developer-centric things someone else mentioned, like IDE support. Where's Xcode for iOS, I wonder?)

I feel like not being able to run existing desktop class software means that it can't be a computer replacement at all.

Also, the Surface Pro 3 is a year old at this point, it seems prudent to wait for the imminent Pro 4 before comparing them.

 

[darkdog]

LtWiggledworth[/url]":1r9ifarg]Just putting it out there, but that looks like an atrocious method of charging the stylus.
I would have expected apple of all people to engineer something better than sticking a giant fucking pen out the bottom of the iPad.

I thought exactly the opposite: if you run out of juice at a critical time, you don't have to look for the charger or replacement batteries; plug it to the ipad (which you're 100% certain to have with you) for 15 seconds and you're good to go for 30 minutes, or so they say.

Besides, there's a separate dongle for charging. So, best of both worlds?

 

[thomsirveaux]

Penguin Warlord[/url]":31qzboyo]

thomsirveaux[/url]":31qzboyo]

sonolumi[/url]":31qzboyo]

H2O Rip[/url]":31qzboyo]

The thing Apple has that Microsoft doesn't is the App Store, which by November will already be full of apps that can take full advantage of iOS 9's Split View mode and other multitasking features.

As opposed to every windows program in existence?

Yeah, I was a little confused by Andrew's slightly narrow view (no offense intended).

Almost everything I use on a day to day basis on my Windows desktops and laptops will run on a Surface Pro. This inoperability without kludges or cut down app versions is a boon to business as it is to the home user.

I'm hoping somewhere on the cards, held closely to Apple's chest naturally, is OSX (+iOS capability) on a future iteration of the iPad Pro. If that's the case, and I would be very surprised if Apple haven't looked into it, then the first iPad Pro is a good toe in the water to see if there's a demand for a desktop capable Apple tablet. A tablet that runs all your iPhone apps AND fully fledged desktop software, that would be a huge deal-maker.

Point being that iOS' apps are going to be optimized for stylus AND touch the way that "every Windows program in existence" isn't. IMO it makes the most sense to use the Surface as a computer replacement that happens to be able to do some tablet-y things, but the iPad Pro can be equal parts tablet and computer (excepting some developer-centric things someone else mentioned, like IDE support. Where's Xcode for iOS, I wonder?)

I feel like not being able to run existing desktop class software means that it can't be a computer replacement at all.

Also, the Surface Pro 3 is a year old at this point, it seems prudent to wait for the imminent Pro 4 before comparing them.

Totally depends on your needs. One person's "desktop-class software" is another person's overkill. Anyway, isn't it great that they both exist? Don't get why people are acting like the iPad Pro's existence negates the good stuff the Surface is already doing.

 

[rain shadow]

off track here, but i think they should put a flash LED on the back so the camera isn't compromised indoors.

 

[doubleyewdee]

thomsirveaux[/url]":16cnty3i]

sonolumi[/url]":16cnty3i]

H2O Rip[/url]":16cnty3i]

The thing Apple has that Microsoft doesn't is the App Store, which by November will already be full of apps that can take full advantage of iOS 9's Split View mode and other multitasking features.

As opposed to every windows program in existence?

Yeah, I was a little confused by Andrew's slightly narrow view (no offense intended).

Almost everything I use on a day to day basis on my Windows desktops and laptops will run on a Surface Pro. This inoperability without kludges or cut down app versions is a boon to business as it is to the home user.

I'm hoping somewhere on the cards, held closely to Apple's chest naturally, is OSX (+iOS capability) on a future iteration of the iPad Pro. If that's the case, and I would be very surprised if Apple haven't looked into it, then the first iPad Pro is a good toe in the water to see if there's a demand for a desktop capable Apple tablet. A tablet that runs all your iPhone apps AND fully fledged desktop software, that would be a huge deal-maker.

Point being that iOS' apps are going to be optimized for stylus AND touch the way that "every Windows program in existence" isn't. IMO it makes the most sense to use the Surface as a computer replacement that happens to be able to do some tablet-y things, but the iPad Pro can be equal parts tablet and computer (excepting some developer-centric things someone else mentioned, like IDE support. Where's Xcode for iOS, I wonder?)

While some iOS apps are currently stylus-aware where it matters, most of them aren't, are they?

And very few (none?) are truly keyboard optimized since apparently actual keyboard shortcut support is a new feature in iOS 9?