GOP intensifies war against EVs and efficient cars

Get ready for less efficient and more polluting vehicles in the US.

See full article...

 

[forkspoon]

but both sides are evil guys, hillary and kamala both did some lying once

I heard Kamala would even let the Palestinian genocide happen. So the world really dodged a bullet there, and everything else is worth it.

Anyway, see you in the bread lines and/or Red Cross clinics!

 

[Uragan]

It also doesn't exist. Reading their wikipedia, the fact they think partnering with Aptera is a selling point tells me they're never getting to market before they go bankrupt. Just like Aptera.

It exists.

 

[RZetopan]

GOP, the party whose whole platform is culture war nonsense, racism, and christofascism.

And gleeful ignorance about everything.

 

[Gnafu the Great]

It exists.

Of course a handbuilt prototype is far from a full production run, but I do feel like that video and the one with Jay Leno demonstrate a level of care that keeps me hopeful they'll make it. I don't think they'll be selling 100,000/year for a while, but I think they'll survive long enough to make an impact.

I've never owned a pickup, but I'm very interested in this one. Even more, I'm excited by the prospect of an SUV or cargo van built on the same platform and principles.

 

[RZetopan]

Most Americans can’t afford a new car at all, true. That’s been true for a very long time.

The inability to afford, all too often, gets supplanted with "I want it". Years ago, I had a neighbor who never went for longer than two years (often only one year) before trading in his nearly new vehicle for a new one. After a couple of decades he simply declared bankruptcy, to start all over again, to continue this practice with absolutely nothing learned, except that his system worked.

 

[RZetopan]

EV's last significantly longer and have far fewer moving parts.

The idea of a million mile EV is an eventuality.

Zero maintenance for a decade is not unusual (excepting only tires and windshield wipers).

 

[Tonkaman]

Of course a handbuilt prototype is far from a full production run, but I do feel like that video and the one with Jay Leno demonstrate a level of care that keeps me hopeful they'll make it. I don't think they'll be selling 100,000/year for a while, but I think they'll survive long enough to make an impact.

I've never owned a pickup, but I'm very interested in this one. Even more, I'm excited by the prospect of an SUV or cargo van built on the same platform and principles.

Aptera made it that far too. Though they went bankrupt twice first, and appear to be well on their way to do so a third time. There's a reason I made that comparison.

Automotive manufacturing is a mature market that takes billions of dollars to even think about competing in. No crowdsourced company has any hope of breaking in to the market unless they are crowdsourcing from billionaires.

 

[RZetopan]

GOP intensifies war on everything that is decent and good and can benefit people in general.

Death cults are like that.

 

[henryhbk]

I'm not sure about this. What we're seeing is a dismantling of the regulatory structure. Because automotive companies generally plan out on a 10-20 year trajectory and any intelligent person can foresee that the current administration is an anomaly, I foresee manufacturers by and large continuing to aim for CAFE targets, even with the (temporary) removal of the stick. Because not doing this could be even more costly to them in the long-run.

However, what I also expect is that this will result in a lack of IMPROVEMENT in efficiency and pollution prevention over the next four years. Because manufacturers, currently suffering under tariffs, will be able to offload all their current technology without having to invest as much in their improved tech. And in five or so years when regulatory bodies potentially swing back the other direction, they'll be able to plead for extensions because the previous administration very obviously was directing them somewhere else, plus they were suffering from the tariffs.

Not to mention, similar to when the GOP during the Bush years made a big celebration about rolling back stack pollution standards for power plants to scrub sulfur, etc for new plants, and quietly the power industry noted that all plants at the time already had it, and it would cost a fortune to remove so therefore that had zero effect (I'm sure now with the trend of gas fired plants at data centers being a thing it's a bonus, but this is mostly a dog whistle, since it takes years to make a new powertrain. I remember when the 3rd brake light was getting added to required safety gear and there was a general freakout of what it would do to costs, of course none of that happened and people still bought cars.

Also despite the auto industry sort of per forma complaining about CAFE for all time, their engines are simply better due to having to constantly invest in improvements. Direct injection, etc have all greatly improved performance and reliability.

 

[Cool Physics]

We are not men, we are Deevolution.

Gitlin is doing nip-ups of joy at this news. Mo' horsepower, mo' speed, mo' pollution. It's been in his wheelhouse for years. Congrats Jonathan!!! Have a celebratory cigar!

 

[Gnafu the Great]

Aptera made it that far too. Though they went bankrupt twice first, and appear to be well on their way to do so a third time. There's a reason I made that comparison.

Automotive manufacturing is a mature market that takes billions of dollars to even think about competing in. No crowdsourced company has any hope of breaking in to the market unless they are crowdsourcing from billionaires.

I appreciate your points, and certainly I have to agree reality probably won't let us have this ^^;. Maybe an established player will buy up the plans and we could still get something like the MT1 from a major manufacturer. At the very least, it seems to have a lot more real-world utility than the Aptera.

 

[RZetopan]

Awww a "both sider" who can't handle reality....cute...

It may be time for you to buy a new sarcasm detector, since yours is very badly broken.

 

[real mikeb_60]

CAFE needs a major rewrite. Go back in time far enough, and the basic sedan hauled 6 people, could be fitted with a towing hitch and could carry luggage for the 6. A basic PU had about the same footprint as a sedan but only had 1 row of seats but with an 8 ft bed. Now a basic sedan is doing good to haul 4 people and no towing ability. PUs on the other hand have turned into huge monsters that haul 4~5 people, have a smaller bed and massive towing ability. Mostly because CAFE kept tightening rules on sedans and had exemptions for larger 'heavy duty' PUs. The smaller crossover SUVs have also fallen victim to the same CAFE trends. Compare an early Ford Escape to the most recent version. The later one looks more like a modern sedan that sits a bit higher. As a result, folks that want an SUV to haul stuff have to buy the next larger size.

The Trump CAFE rule may indeed be a FUBAR but might prompt the next administration to do a rational rewrite. If you hate the giant US PU, then this action by Trump may turn out to be a long range good thing.

Anecdote: while waiting for a signal while riding my bicycle home from the gym yesterday, observed a Chevy Bolt ("tall car" EV) in line across the street with a Ram behind it. The Bolt is not a low car. But the roofline of the Bolt was below the hoodline of the RAM. IOW the driver of the pickup could not see the car in front. Now try that with a pedestrian...

Even 10 years ago, a lot of pickup trucks, even with crew cabs, had good-sized beds, and were not lifted to the point where you need a ladder to get in or reach in. They also had lower, rounded front ends that provided better visibility forward and, incidentally, were less lethal to pedestrians if struck at low speeds. Compare, for instance, a early-mid 2000s F150 to the current model. A F150 of that vintage is comparable to a (US-market) Ranger these days.

 

[henryhbk]

I'm guessing they'd suggest cheaper cars? If you can knock some emissions control equipment off the bill of materials you might save a fraction of the cost of the orange one's tariffs.

My neighbor who has removed every single piece of emissions control equipment from his 3/4 ton diesel commuter and idles it for an hour on the street in front of our house in the winter to "warm it up" is probably gonna love this. My family's lungs? Not so much. But who gives a shit about our health if his truck gets 5% more power, amirit?

I remember reading somewhere that most modern engines actually perform worse with the emissions removed, as the engine is designed to work with the expected back pressure and that eliminating it (if I can recall correctly) causes more air to leave with the exhaust cycle, leaving the mixture richer than expected (which in this guy's case might be a bonus as he can "roll-coal" but that's not good for the engine, and he may be owning the libs, but he's also spending a lot more in fuel than even that monster burns at baseline normally.

 

[Cool Physics]

"Gasp! I voted for Trump, but not for this!" will probably be heard a lot more often from here on out

Note to all the MAGAts et. al who voted for the orange turd and now say the above:

You drank the koolaid, pisspots, now live with it. Harakiri to y'all.

 

[carpatio]

Ford -although an American brand- has a line up of vehicles for Europe that you largely won't see in the States, and vice versa. They're also made in Europe, not in the States, I believe (but could be wrong).

Ford has manufactured a separate line up of vehicles in Europe since the 1960s.

They used to have a decent presence, with staple models such as the Fiesta, Escort, Sierra, Focus and Transporter. Most Europeans, like myself, would have owned or atleast driven some of these.

These days they account for just around three percent of the market, largely due to a lack of models in line with current trends.

 

[williamlondon]

The thing that I really don't understand about today's GOP is how their policies are going to ensure we give today's children a deader planet than we already have. They have to know spewing more toxic shit into the world isn't good for the planet (despite their professed ignorance or open defiance), and yet they are the ones that push procreation and insist children are the product of a monogamous coupling. So, how are they so far removed from reality that they are okay with this? It makes absolutely no sense.

"I'm a good parent, my children will thank me when they're dying their last gasping breath that momma's SUV and dadda's oil promoting policies were good and it was all worth it, 'thank you <cough, cough> mamma and papa <cough, cough> you were right all along <horrible death>'."

 

[Davidoff]

Another self-destructive policy. When the president complains about China eating the US's lunch and then does another move that helps strengthen China's position. The Chinese EV automakers are booming and the US is going to be further left n the dust, especially with its unwillingness to invest in future technologies.

I mean, what do you expect? China sends their kids to university for STEM courses while Americans send their kids to Bible study.

And it's not just China, India and other countries do the same. While America reels in its ignorance.

Well, I'm sure there soon will be a burgeoning industry for buggies and plowshares in America.

 

[Zod]

So the death of American car manufacturing huh?
That trade deficit is going to look real bad when American autos are literally illegal to drive everywhere else in the world

“They won’t buy our cars!

Because not only are they shit; they’re illegal too!

 

[cohnjonner]

So, can Republicans tell their constituents why they're doing this? What are the benefits for us?

Something something freedom. While their buddies who make smog machines give them kickbacks. Tale as old as time.

 

[Drop table users;]

Death cults are like that.

It's amazing that the party that is apparently terrified of everything dismisses valid concerns, be they environmental or of our own making.

 

[SportivoA]

It's amazing that the party that is apparently terrified of everything dismisses valid concerns, be they environmental or of our own making.

Withstanding the cognitive dissonance is part of the in-group marker. If they wanted to turn around before the cliff, they wouldn't be accepted because there are plenty of excuses for why the road might still be flat.

 

[simon5701]

Most Americans can’t afford a new car at all, true. That’s been true for a very long time.

And, sure, that’s going to be even more true of Americans who are driving older cars and keeping them on the road, which is something you can do now that cars last on average more than 20 years if reasonably maintained.

Your point about subsidies is well taken. The government definitely should end subsidies for fossil fuels.

I don't think that's true. The median used vehicle costs $25-30k. That's still enough for a cheap new vehicle. However buyers would rather get something better or bigger with the that money by buying used instead. Arguably the biggest factor is on average cars have become more reliable and hence they last longer on the road.

This significantly impacts the product mix of new vehicles as all the cheapest sedans and hatchbacks have been getting cut. A lot of vocal people on the internet may say they want such cheap new vehicle but in reality most of them are also going to buy used to get the best value.

 

[DarthSlack]

The thing that I really don't understand about today's GOP is how their policies are going to ensure we give today's children a deader planet than we already have. They have to know spewing more toxic shit into the world isn't good for the planet (despite their professed ignorance or open defiance), and yet they are the ones that push procreation and insist children are the product of a monogamous coupling. So, how are they so far removed from reality that they are okay with this? It makes absolutely no sense.

"I'm a good parent, my children will thank me when they're dying their last gasping breath that momma's SUV and dadda's oil promoting policies were good and it was all worth it, 'thank you <cough, cough> mamma and papa <cough, cough> you were right all along <horrible death>'."

It's just the gospel according to Republican Jesus. Who will be here Real Soon Now.

 

[numerobis]

I don't think that's true. The median used vehicle costs $25-30k. That's still enough for a cheap new vehicle. However buyers would rather get something better or bigger with the that money by buying used instead. Arguably the biggest factor is on average cars have become more reliable and hence they last longer on the road.

This significantly impacts the product mix of new vehicles as all the cheapest sedans and hatchbacks have been getting cut. A lot of vocal people on the internet may say they want such cheap new vehicle but in reality most of them are also going to buy used to get the best value.

Ok, maybe not « can’t afford » but definitely most people who buy a car buy used.

 

[Sky High]

but both sides are evil guys, hillary and kamala both did some lying once

Yes, both sides are evil. One just happens to be a little more evil.

Im not sure why this is so hard for people to understand.

Israel is committing genocide. What did the democrats do while in power? They continued to fund it. For fucks sakes, thats evil.

Under Obama, we expanded the number of imperialist wara we were engagine in. For fucks sakes, thats evil.

If you can not see that the neoliberal democratic party is evil, then you are blind as fuck, or really just dont give a shit, all because you continue to live in comfort.

Ask the people in the global south how they feel about both American political parties.

 

[Sky High]

To begin fixing this vote Democrat for every office in every election. Until then, vote with your wallet.

No, I refuse to vote for neoliberalism. You may be comfortable with the mass exploitation of the global south under the democratic party (and republican party) but I am not.

 

[Sapnai]

US car makers already make different cars for Europe, so they'll just keep on spending more R&D than if standards were uniform.

US car makers already make different cars for Europe, so they'll just keep on spending more R&D than if standards were uniform.

Silver lining : The tens/hundreds of thousands of Dieselgate cars stored in humongous parking lots in the Mojave for a decade may be allowed back on the roads! No tariffs!

I came from EU. If automakers want to be more popular in Europe they need 2 things:
1. Start making smaller cars. Look at the streets in many Italian cities. They are 3 meters wide. Wall to wall. How will you go there with US made truck?
2. Gasoline prices are not as cheap as they are in US. Most popular engines in my country are 1.6-2.0 liters. And in US?

 

[Zeppos]

Reduce the price?? LOL

The car market does not have a vertical demand curve. It makes sense when there is plenty of competition. They'll reduce prices just enough such that non-us carmakers are at a disadvantage. Let the money talk.

 

[Astro-CCD]

I continue to laugh when Trump and the MAGA talk about his "Legacy" and how great he will be seen as and want to do things like put him on Mount Rushmore.

Funny because in 100 years, he will have a legacy all right, but one as perhaps the worst president in US history. The one who ruined our place in the world, our environment, and our economy.

If he did manage Mount Rushmore, our ancestors will deal with that with a liberal application of dynamite.


View: https://youtu.be/1CYTcQUKTVY

 

[Scary Devil Monastery]

No, I refuse to vote for neoliberalism. You may be comfortable with the mass exploitation of the global south under the democratic party (and republican party) but I am not.

Uh huh.

The way the math works out is simple: not voting and voting republican are both choices which benefits republicans.

You refuse to vote because you don't want to benefit the corrupt? In the US of today?
That means you benefit the fascist. It's that simple. Not making a choice is itself a choice.

Anyone willing to be the cat's paw of the fascists with actual policies of genocide because they couldn't stomach holding their nose don't get to ever say they're in favor of a cause ever again. Not now that Netanyahu is set to pave all of gaza over so his good buddy Trump can build a resort there.

No one is comfortable voting for a lesser evil. But the one who contributes to the worse evil by not even standing up in the most basic obligation demanded by a democratic society? They're the ones turning their backs on the targeted demographics who are fucking dying, while thinking it's a moral choice.

Those are part of the rot. The 'Fuck you, got mine' crowd made worse by their pretense they aren't being fucking evil. The people who in reality do not give a fuck but think that bleating about moral purity exonerates the fact that when they could make things less bad they chose not to.

 

[raxx7]

No, I refuse to vote for neoliberalism. You may be comfortable with the mass exploitation of the global south under the democratic party (and republican party) but I am not.

Hate to break it to you but given the US system if you don't vote or vote for a party which has no chances of electing you're basically giving half a vote to the Democrats and half a vote to the Republicans.

As long as the bigger evil stands a chance of electing, you need to go out and vote for the lesser evil.

 

[Maton]

Why stop here? Let's bring back gasoline with lead in it.

 

[Scary Devil Monastery]

Hate to break it to you but given the US system if you don't vote or vote for a party which has no chances of electing you're basically giving half a vote to the Democrats and half a vote to the Republicans.

As long as the bigger evil stands a chance of electing, you need to go out and vote for the lesser evil.

It's a bit worse than that. In the US system, the way it's rigged, the null vote falls decisively in favor of the more extreme. Key states being gerrymandered in favor of conservatives, the statistics penalize the democrats more than it does republicans.

The problem with the bothsiderist "non-voters" is that they either don't really give a shit about anything other than blind purist ideology or they are stupid.
"Pro-palestinians" proud of sticking it to 'genocidin Biden' by either voting for Trump or turning their backs on palestinians completely.

And then they get pissed that their "noble sacrifice" of other people isn't appreciated for the cool and edgy move they thought it was. Useless fuckin' children who don't grok not only that they refused to put an end to real genocides but that because they withheld their vote in 2024 they may not in their lifetimes have another opportunity to vote in an election.

Trump cost the US alone under Covid half a million needlessly dead who'd be alive if he hadnt amplified anti-vaxx so much. And he'll encourage Netanyahu to end the palestinian people in addition to having been the death of the US's slow and erratic march to see racism and bigotry expunged.
But no. More important for those clowns not to enable politics as normal rather than help put a stop to Orange Mussolini.

 

[Axiomatic13]

As an owner of a small O&G company, this is ridiculously stupid. We're going to run out of fossil fuels someday, we need to be much further down the road on alternatives than we currently are. Beyond that, the big O&G companies are lying to you about global warming. You know how I am sure of that? The Texas Railroad commission's rules on flaring gasses, waste water injection, drilling permit locations and a bunch more. Also, one thing I can guarantee is that there is nothing "woke" about the Texas RR commission. They are a brutal task master that ruins my life on a monthly basis. Y'all need to wake up and realize, the big companies are not our friends.

 

[Danathar]

(Sarcasm) Why stop there? Just get rid of catalytic converters and move everyone back to leaded gas while they are at it.

 

[Juggernaut_408]

"Gasp! I voted for Trump, but not for this!" will probably be heard a lot more often from here on out

Aholllllllll, you got us this orange tyrant , you got zero say and no right to complain, you’re getting exactly what you asked for and don’t give us that bull that you didn’t know this, he’s been very vocal about it

 

[Komarov]

Not rose colored glasses to state facts. Not arguing that we shouldn't have made more efficient vehicles. But the way CAFE has played out, we have small cars that often don't sell and giant vehicles that don't get a whole lot better mpg due to weight. My 68 Impala got 18mpg. Today's giant vehicles aren't that much better on the mileage front. CAFE standards are driving the same split in SUVs. I bought my 2009 Escape because it was a utility vehicle with towing ability. Today's Escape is pretty much a sedan with a higher stance. If I wanted to replace my Escape, would probably have to go up a size class to get a similar utility ability. CAFE needs changing to allow larger sedans and encourage smaller PUs.

Funny that. My C5 Tourer (hatchback) gets 40 mpg (5.8 l/100 km), conforms to Euro5 emissions standards (stricter than anywhere in the US except possibly recent CA rules), has tons of space and with its diesel torque can tow anything you can imagine, up to 3 tons. That's with an engine from 15 years ago. If I need a new fridge or a bed, I'll bleedin' well have it delivered.

I know, I know, cultural differences.

 

[williamlondon]

Some congress critter should offer legislation that moves the tail pipe from the back of the vehicle to the front, and hook it up to the ventilation system, just to see O&G promoters tie themselves in knots trying to reject the legislation and at the same time defend the safety of burning fossil fuels.

 

[gnasher729]

Add to that: in Europe and Canada there’s pressure to bar Tesla from the regulatory credits markets, and from other subsidies. I think some has actually been enacted though it’s hard to tell with all the comings and goings of the tariff war.

Right now I think the UK could put a 35% import tariffs on US EVs without Triump complaining.