GOP intensifies war against EVs and efficient cars

Get ready for less efficient and more polluting vehicles in the US.

See full article...

 

[Pat_Murph]

GOP intensifies war on everything that is decent and good and can benefit people in general.

 

[Random_stranger]

I don't buy that anymore. If we're talking new vehicles, I think most people would be served just fine by an Equinox EV over the gas counterpart. People overestimate how much driving they actually do and what they need. I've been driving two EVs for a month off just a single 120V outlet (the 240V outlet is down for repairs), and it's been fine. We've been an EV-only household for well over a year now.

And how do you do that when your apartment building, with a parking spot 1/4 mile from your apartment, has no outlets? And you don't happen to work at a place with chargers, or they're super expensive? You then need to go a couple of times a week possibly to find a free charger somewhere and sit for a few hours - a lot of wasted time. This is where a 5-minute gas fillup wins easily.

What about where tier 3 power costs $0.65/kWh+? With $5/gallon gas, if you get 25 mpg, that's 20 cents per mile - roughly the same cost as an EV that gets 3 miles / kWh. Get a model with 40-50 mpg, and not only is the car cheaper to buy, gas fillups are cheaper too. I know CA is time-of-use for a lot of the time now, but if you have to use a public charger during daylight hours, you might pay that much.

Charging at night is great if you don't need to do much to make it happen. If you can't access an outlet from your parking spot, things get a lot more dicey.

 

[rayleonard]

I'm not sure about this. What we're seeing is a dismantling of the regulatory structure. Because automotive companies generally plan out on a 10-20 year trajectory and any intelligent person can foresee that the current administration is an anomaly, I foresee manufacturers by and large continuing to aim for CAFE targets, even with the (temporary) removal of the stick. Because not doing this could be even more costly to them in the long-run.

However, what I also expect is that this will result in a lack of IMPROVEMENT in efficiency and pollution prevention over the next four years. Because manufacturers, currently suffering under tariffs, will be able to offload all their current technology without having to invest as much in their improved tech. And in five or so years when regulatory bodies potentially swing back the other direction, they'll be able to plead for extensions because the previous administration very obviously was directing them somewhere else, plus they were suffering from the tariffs.

Their next step is to mandate a ceiling on car efficiency standards. Like, add a tax if the MPG or MPGe is too high.

 

[Random_stranger]

It's not that conservatives think climate change is a hoax, it's that they've given up. Conservatism is based on fear and doubt. The GOP and their voters have essentially given up all hope. From their phony religious beliefs to their widespread adoption of greed and selfishness. They've committed themselves to certain failure. The ultra wealthy are hoping that they'll have a way to buy salvation from the eventual climate collapse, but we'll see.

Nah, most of my family is super conservative, and they think it's a hoax. My dad literally went along with Fox / evangelical talking points. It started out as "it's a hoax" or "climate has always changed". Now it's, "sure, it may be changing, but nothing man does is powerful enough to affect the weather". I'm sure it'll be God's will next month..

 

[Random_stranger]

I was with you until you said ICE wins most every time.

I have both an EV and an ICE vehicle. We've found that for trips ~3hrs or less the EV is much more convenient and has enough range for the trip without recharging. For longer trips it also works but a bit more planning is needed. Our usual rest stops every 3-4 hrs also needs to include recharging. It doesn't add much to the overall travel time since we haven't drained the battery completely, just adds to the planning.

See my previous post - IF you have convenient charging available. Lots of people have one car shared by multiple people, don't have easy access to an outlet at their apartment parking lot, etc.

Most of the Ars posters are technophiles, and well off - I am somewhat in that group - but it's by no means a slam dunk that everyone has easy access to charging. And how do you get to work if you realize you only have 10 miles left of charge, because your kids drove it, but work is 15 miles away? Find an available charger, wait half an hour to add enough charge to get to work and back, etc? Throwing in 2 gallons when I'm away from my favorite gas station (I mix E85 + 91) is a few minutes and can be done at like 25 places along the way to work.

 

[Scary Devil Monastery]

"Gasp! I voted for Trump, but not for this!" will probably be heard a lot more often from here on out

To which the only logical response would be: "Did you not hear a single word Trump said? This is exactly what you voted for!".

After which, just walk away.

As far as I'm concerned the second-time-around Trump voters can not be exculpated by either ignorance nor stupidity.
They heard his spiel about Making Bigotry Great Again and from that point on would have ignored it if he'd promised to address the trade deficit by selling their firstborn children to cannibals.

The people who need to be reached are the ones who didn't vote and may glumly be realizing that all the edgelord posturing of "being above the system" won't help fix what their vote could have kept from breaking.

 

[atmartens]

CAFE needs a major rewrite.

Just tax gasoline at $5 / gallon by increasing it 50 cents per year over the next 10 years. Make it transparent & simple. And index it to inflation. No loopholes!

 

[Scary Devil Monastery]

Antifa... They still a boogie man right? Hard to keep up with all the scapegoats. The party of personal responsibility always seems to be a victim of the "other"

14 defining characteristics, as it were. Including the point where "The enemy is both too weak and too strong".

 

[MyBloodyBallantine]

See my previous post - IF you have convenient charging available. Lots of people have one car shared by multiple people, don't have easy access to an outlet at their apartment parking lot, etc.

Most of the Ars posters are technophiles, and well off - I am somewhat in that group - but it's by no means a slam dunk that everyone has easy access to charging. And how do you get to work if you realize you only have 10 miles left of charge, because your kids drove it, but work is 15 miles away? Find an available charger, wait half an hour to add enough charge to get to work and back, etc? Throwing in 2 gallons when I'm away from my favorite gas station (I mix E85 + 91) is a few minutes and can be done at like 25 places along the way to work.

In that case then, you would be one of the minority of people for whom an EV may not work until more chargers are installed on curbs or in parking lots. Most drivers probably do have access to at least a 110v outlet, which should be perfectly fine for replenishing typical commutes.

 

[Got Nate?]

They already have been. See the Maverick. It's about the same size as the 2011 Ranger, but with 2 rows of seating like the 90s and 2000s Rangers that South America got but not the US.

I meant small trucks. The Telo prototypes are the size of a Fiat 500. The Maverick is huge in comparison.

E: somehow my link was messed up

 

[clackerd]

With the way things are, the government has zero business giving taxpayers' money to people who can easily pay the full price.

You can show me you are serious by paying the actual, non-subsidied price of petroleum-based products like gasoline and literally everything containing plastic. Because I'm tired of helping pay for you freeloaders.

 

[Kroov]

So the death of American car manufacturing huh?
That trade deficit is going to look real bad when American autos are literally illegal to drive everywhere else in the world

Exactly! From another perspective, would I want to buy an American car that gets 10 mpg, or a car from anywhere else that gets 30 mpg?

Obviously, tariffs will help me make the correct choice here in the USA. /s

 

[DarthSlack]

Variations of the same car costs money. Automakers sell globally. Are they just going to build cars that overly pollute the US and everyone else gets the good version? Or will they just make the good version to sell globally therefore making these new laws moot?

I'd expect companies to largely avoid the US market, or just stick with occasionally refreshed models of what ICE cars they already have. The rest of the world is going to go electric, and that's a much bigger market than the US. Basically, the US auto market is going to become a backwater.

 

[hexbus]

So the death of American car manufacturing huh?
That trade deficit is going to look real bad when American autos are literally illegal to drive everywhere else in the world

I also halfway wonder if the American car makers will still make their vehicles with the older fuel efficiency regulations so that they can still sell them abroad. I figure they would want to maximize their profits by still selling them abroad, so they may just make a gas-guzzling six- or eight-cylinder vehicle here in the United States and not sell it in other countries.

 

[MyBloodyBallantine]

I work at AutoZone and do mechanic work on the side. Most customer vehicles are older than 2010 and quite a few from the mid to early 90s. Just did a power steering pump on a 91 Pontiac LeMans (a rebadged Daewoo, really), and the customer happily paid $320. The next repair is the AC compressor and the condenser.

The reality is, most Americans have no money to buy a brand new EV even with incentives thrown in. And that's even assuming no extra costs for the refueling logistics.

With the way things are, the government has zero business giving taxpayers' money to people who can easily pay the full price.

Incentives to purchase cleaner vehicles/appliances/whatever are a good thing that we all benefit from.

 

[tgx]

And how do you do that when your apartment building, with a parking spot 1/4 mile from your apartment, has no outlets? And you don't happen to work at a place with chargers, or they're super expensive? You then need to go a couple of times a week possibly to find a free charger somewhere and sit for a few hours - a lot of wasted time. This is where a 5-minute gas fillup wins easily.

What about where tier 3 power costs $0.65/kWh+? With $5/gallon gas, if you get 25 mpg, that's 20 cents per mile - roughly the same cost as an EV that gets 3 miles / kWh. Get a model with 40-50 mpg, and not only is the car cheaper to buy, gas fillups are cheaper too. I know CA is time-of-use for a lot of the time now, but if you have to use a public charger during daylight hours, you might pay that much.

Charging at night is great if you don't need to do much to make it happen. If you can't access an outlet from your parking spot, things get a lot more dicey.

Yup.For apartment dwellers EV's are a non-starter until they sort that scenario out. Should take no longer than 50 years.

 

[Psychophant]

Look guys I am all for a cleaner environment but even now the latest CAFE rules are causing combustion engines to pollute more not less as least as far as combustion cars are concerned. They are loosening the piston rings to reduce friction to meet efficiency standards this causes the cars to pollute more as they age they will be burning oil producing more particulates in the atmosphere and kill more people from exposure. These enigines will also fail sooner and have more problems before they do. Another problem is the cost increase for the CO2 efficiency is keeping people in older cars that pollute more and since the cafe rules favor larger vehicles as those can be made profitable much easier as it make more difficult to produce new small cars profitably as their cost gets too high.

I am no Trump supporter but this what the current laws are doing and we should fix them. They are deeply flawed prioritizing efficiency when brand new and allowing them to burn a litter of oil every 2000 miles once they get worn.

Why the down votes. This is happening are even youtube videos measuring the drop in piston ring tension.

And how about GM having to recall 800,000 6.2L V8 engines that like to seize up? I believe 30k reported so far. Their fix is to replace the 0w20 oil with 0w40, in hopes of making their bearings last the warranty period. Utterly terrible call for oil that thin, all in the chase for fuel economy. What's the pollution cost to replace all those failed engines? Apparently they are spending $888 million to develop a new V8 engine, hopefully this one won't self destruct.

https://www.thedrive.com/news/gm-is...wn-6-2l-v8s-in-some-2021-2024-trucks-and-suvs

https://www.motor1.com/news/760916/gm-investing-888-million-dollars-v8/

 

[radulov]

I have a serious question. Why?!?!
Just to be anti-democrat ? Cut your nose to spite your face? I mean it. I just don’t get why…

 

[JBanister]

feel like we'll need new hates like "MAKE AMERICA SMOG AGAIN"

I believe the Project 2025 people would prefer to hear: Yes Make Americans Suck Smog Again.

 

[Readercathead]

Thanks, Elon Musk. All just to make your own daughter miserable.

 

[BasicBrunel]

To begin fixing this vote Democrat for every office in every election. Until then, vote with your wallet.

At what point do you vote with your passport and emigrate to get away from this madness?

 

[Tonkaman]

I meant small trucks. The Telo prototypes are the size of a Fiat 500. The Maverick is huge in comparison.

E: somehow my link was messed up

So a useless truck? Too small of a cab to carry many people, too small of a bed to carry anything more than groceries?

 

[radulov]

I sometimes wish our lifespans were about double, so that legislators passing these laws would have to actually experience the results of their actions. In reality we would just have 150-year-old legislators.

That’s why the grift works … all bad consequences past the point of payment/grift/etc. oh and blaming the other side for messing it up. But yes me too

 

[Komarov]

At this rate, it's a wonder they're not trying to mandate coal-fired steam engines as an alternative.

It's in the works, all that clean coal T talked about back in 2017.

Speaking of which, it's a weird feeling when it crosses my mind that "Nixon seems to have been a pretty good guy."

 

[nimble]

Ford -although an American brand- has a line up of vehicles for Europe that you largely won't see in the States, and vice versa. They're also made in Europe, not in the States, I believe (but could be wrong).

Yep, mostly designed and made in Europe. Pretty much a separate company that happens to be owned by Ford America, similar to how Opel/Vauxhall were owned by GM until 2017.

 

[Psychophant]

2026 model year vehicles will be showing up on lots in the next couple months. I imagine that 2027, and possibly even 2028 model years are well into development. I don't think they'll be scrapping their work to go back to less efficient tech. Especially when they know people want more fuel efficient vehicles. Even the trumpiest of trumpers wants better MPG. Same with their EV lines. They're not going to abandon all the money they've sunk into it. Especially when 47 changes his mind every day.

This will not always be the case. Take a look at Dodge and their just released electric Charger R/T. It sold so poorly(2k in 3 months) they cancelled production for the 2026 model year and are going to bring back the V8 they just removed. Companies want sales above all else. Trump has little to do with it, customer demand will dictate models offerred. Just look at all the sedans that died off, the consumer changed their preferences and manufacturers accommodated them.

 

[raxx7]

Variations of the same car costs money. Automakers sell globally. Are they just going to build cars that overly pollute the US and everyone else gets the good version? Or will they just make the good version to sell globally therefore making these new laws moot?

They already have different offerings and options for different markets.
And the US is a big market. So the US will just get more polluting cars.

 

[Ragin76er]

In reality, you are correct!

But remember - decisions to buy things like a car are nearly always not rational.

Customers want to save money on gasoline, in abstract. If they find a manufacturer/model has a substantially lower MPG than a rival, that will pre-bias them against the lower MPG offering.

On top of that, if you ask them, again outside of actual car buying, if they want better MPG, they will say yes, either for economic or environmental reasons. So every corporate survey of perspective buyers ends up showing a strong want of better MPG.

Now, when they actually buy cars, prior knowledge of poor MPG will be a mark against particular make/model.....but the American consumer will also take into account other factors that may override that and in many cases do. Things like "big trucks are safer".

But for automotive manufacturers they see two things - customer research shows a strong preference for better gas efficiency. Second, if they are not keeping up with automotive rivals in MPG, they suffer sales consequences and are less competitive. Doesn't mean they need to make the most MPG-efficient pickup truck, but it has to be at least close or equal to rival offerings to take it off the table as a notable buying factor.

Lastly, again from the automotive manufacturer's standpoint, the market is bigger than the United States. They don't want a significant difference between cars made for the US and cars made for lets say Canada or the European market if they can help it. Plus, other countries automotive buyers place a bigger emphasis on MPG/KPG. So why develop two engines?

Think of it this way - Every automotive manufacturer eventually conformed to California emission requirements across their product line. It proved to be expensive and cumbersome to design an extra set of equipment for California emissions. "With California Emissions" was an option on cars for a few years. The public seemed to like the idea that those cars were less polluting. So California emissions became the de-facto standard for a long time, despite there being no legal reason to do it outside of California.

I agree with everything you wrote, but I'm scratching my head about what KPG could possibly mean. My best guess is kilometers per gallon? I'm from Canada and have never measured a gallon of anything. I appreciate the effort but just an FYI: we measure fuel efficiency using litres per 100 km here as it is easy to compare and easy to calculate how much fuel you'll use on a trip.

Average SUV gets ~10 L/100 km, 200 km trip (2x10) = 20 Litres of fuel.
Average Car gets ~7 L/100 km, 200 km trip (2x7) = 14 Litres of fuel.

Average SUV gets ~30 MPG, 200 mile trip = 200/30 = 6.67 Gallons
Average Car gets ~35 MPG, 200 mile trip = 200/35 = 5.7 Gallons

Could just be me but I find it much simpler to do basic multiplication than division.

 

[ej24]

I live in Tennessee where they've already implemented a tax like that ($100 for hybrids; $200 now, $274+inflation in 2027 for EVs). So am I going to have to pay twice? The justification for the Tennessee fee was to make up for the loss in federal gas taxes also.

I understand that EV owners need to pay into the highway funds, but both of these fees are punitive because they exceed the equivalent gas tax that I would've been paying with an ICE. E.g., we'd have to drive my wife's Subaru that gets 27 mpg 16k miles a year to pay just the Tennessee fee. We actually drive it 10k (which will be less now because if I have to pay for the EV, I'm going to make damn sure we minimize costs by not driving the ICE more than we have to).

I don't understand why they don't implement a (x¢/mile)*vehicle weight tax based on how many miles you drive each year. Almost every state requires an annual inspection where they record the odometer reading. Just calculate miles driven since last year and charge the tax at time of inspection or registration renewal. It would be more in line with gas tax which is a use tax. This would be more equitable as it's directly linked to miles driven and how much the vehicle weighs (weight=wear and tear to roads). Drive a Nissan Leaf? Pay less. Drive a Hummer EV? Pay more. Drive 2000 miles per year, pay less. Drive 50k miles per year, pay more. Am I missing something? This feels straight forward. Why has no legislature proposed something like this?

 

[darwinosx]

but both sides are evil guys, hillary and kamala both did some lying once

Awww a "both sider" who can't handle reality....cute...

 

[Acidtech]

It is sad when your "government" wants to legislate "buggy whips" back into existence.

 

[poke 532810]

So, can Republicans tell their constituents why they're doing this? What are the benefits for us?

Why are Republicans doing this? Because “got mine, fuck you” is the Republican platform.

There are no benefits for us. Republicans have been shitting on the faces of their constituents for years, yet enough people eagerly lap it up and keep voting them into power. Shitting on everyone is working, so they’re not about to stop shitting now.

 

[KeyboardCat]

This is how you get Mad Max.

 

[Acidtech]

I live in Tennessee where they've already implemented a tax like that ($100 for hybrids; $200 now, $274+inflation in 2027 for EVs). So am I going to have to pay twice? The justification for the Tennessee fee was to make up for the loss in federal gas taxes also.

I understand that EV owners need to pay into the highway funds, but both of these fees are punitive because they exceed the equivalent gas tax that I would've been paying with an ICE. E.g., we'd have to drive my wife's Subaru that gets 27 mpg 16k miles a year to pay just the Tennessee fee. We actually drive it 10k (which will be less now because if I have to pay for the EV, I'm going to make damn sure we minimize costs by not driving the ICE more than we have to).

The fact is ALL road damage is done by LARGE commercial vehicles(eg Semi Trucks and Trailers(eg 40,000 pounds and up). Even large SUVs do effectively ZERO damage to the roads.

 

[Acidtech]

There are a lot of people that just don't see a EV working out for them. If I could afford two vehicles, one would be an EV. I'm divorced, back when I was married if the tech was at this level, the wife would have the EV for local travel and I'd have the gas powered vehicle for when we went further from home.

To restate my point, when one vehicle has to do everything, the ICE wins most every time with most people.

Only because "most people" don't know how to USE an EV plus a lot of scare stories put out by the Fossil Fuel industry.

 

[poltroon]

You know what makes me feel wealthy and free and improves my quality of life?

Filling up my gas tank with more gas and more often! It's the American Dream, right there in the Declaration! Bring me your tired, your poor, those yearning to breathe diesel fumes!

Is there any better way to spend a Friday night than down at the gas pumps, watchin' the little numbers increase?

/s

 

[Thinker_in_TX]

The next Dem Prez really needs to stick it to the red states so that they are begging for progressive policies. Declare a federal emergency and start dumping toxic waste is TX lakes. Let them sue you to stop. Ban catalytic converters in Florida. See how that works out for their tourism. All you have to do is say it at a press conference and let the GOP governors react, then point to the legislation that is being proposed.

If someone is begging you to punch them in the face, then oblige them.

Hey, I live in Texas. I'm against all this Republican crap. I'm a Democrat in a rural county surrounded by Red rednecks, but there are some Democrats.
Your hatred hurts people that don't deserve it. You're not a Democrat or a liberal but an anarchist.

 

[Wheels Of Confusion]

I don't understand why they don't implement a (x¢/mile)*vehicle weight tax based on how many miles you drive each year. Almost every state requires an annual inspection where they record the odometer reading.

Nope. A minority require that, and some of those don't require it of all cars.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_inspection_in_the_United_States

 

[bernstein]

Just sad to watch how the use amputates it's remaining manufacturing prowess.

The rest of the the world is rapidly electrifying. At this point, mostly because it's cheaper on a country level. It frees up money and workers for other uses.

 

[ColdWetDog]

Sadly, this seems to be what American buyers want, and what domestic car makers are going to build.

Ram resurrects Hemi engine for popular pickup trucks in 'Symbol of Protest'

Meanwhile they are dropping the electric Charger R/T

Dodge Kills Electric Charger R/T—HEMI V8 Roars Back

Eventually the US will be able to turn the entire country into a theme park for the rest of the world to visit and 'See the Land That Time Forgot'. Think of Detroit 'urban decay' tourism on a national scale.

That's just a cheap marketing trick. Cost them very little and will get some traction with the MAGA crowd. And the electric Charger was a failure anyway. So it's a bit of a stretch to call it 'what American buyers want'. MAGAidiots certainly exist but there are a number of other groupings of American customers that won't buy a hemi head V8 pickup truck and never were attracted to a fake 1970's muscle car.