Google Nest and Android devices are now Matter controllers (for future devices)
- Thread starter JournalBot
- Start date
That becomes the question, then. Is this standard set up to strictly stay within your own network on devices you control? Can I disable outside contact and still control all the devices without installing someone's snoopy apps? Will I still retain complete control over all my devices if I do?
Right now, my setup is most RPis that let me access information via https and send commands via ssh. I can be pretty sure that no other people/companies else has access to those. I can't see giving up that setup without some very serious, exclusively user-controlled, privacy and security considering so many things in my home would be connected to it.
Upvote
-1
(0
/
-1)
I don't think there's anything in the standard for Matter that prevents them from talking to the internet if they can. In fact, since they stress the ability to update firmware so much, I suspect they're expected to be able to connect to the outside world. What it does do is provide a standard for communication between IoT devices so whatever controller you want to use doesn't need to know how to speak Brand X Lightbulb Protocol, Brand Y Door Sensor Protocol, and Brand Z Switch Protocol. They should all use the standard Matter messages and calls and just work. Which means the ones that could be internet connected by the nature of how they connect to your Matter network, i.e. the ones that use WiFi, should be fine on a network without internet access. That's how I keep IoT shit from talking to the internet already and it's how I will continue to treat WiFi IoT shit gear when Matter devices start shipping.
Of course you can also go with devices that don't have a way to connect to the internet in the first place. Thread devices have to connect to a Thread Border Router. They're by their nature on their own separate network. It's the up to the Thread router to handle their connection (or lack of) to the outside world.
Upvote
2
(2
/
0)
I totally see this but at the same time sometimes standards win for one reason or another. It's not always the first one either. Serial ports, SCSI ports, Parallel ports -what you want to add another type of port called USB ? So now we'll have 4 different kinds?I have a feeling it will end up like this:
Upvote
5
(5
/
0)
I'm just getting started with the smart home stuff. A problem I've run into is zigbee range being very limited by modern house construction. I have a new garden office only 5 metres from my house, but zigbee repeaters seem unable to penetrate the wall fabric. it has a metallic layer as part of the wall construction, so it feels like a faraday cage problem.
I have Ethernet between the office and house, so I thought I could just install a second hub (ikea dirigera) in the home office, and they'd coordinate over Ethernet to create one seamless network (the hub in each location managing the zigbee devices it can see), but so far it appears that is impossible.
Some people mount a zigbee repeater on the outside of the building, powered by 5V dc, to get around this problem, but this seems a bit ludicrous.
Has Matter got support for multiple hubs that can coordinate over Ethernet?
I have Ethernet between the office and house, so I thought I could just install a second hub (ikea dirigera) in the home office, and they'd coordinate over Ethernet to create one seamless network (the hub in each location managing the zigbee devices it can see), but so far it appears that is impossible.
Some people mount a zigbee repeater on the outside of the building, powered by 5V dc, to get around this problem, but this seems a bit ludicrous.
Has Matter got support for multiple hubs that can coordinate over Ethernet?
Upvote
1
(1
/
0)
We actually tested this at my house: less than 50ms (basically the time to notice the light is ramping up or down).
Moved it from the same room to the basement. No difference in latency, all commands were less than 50ms (our phone stop watches, so maybe a proper network test would be best, but I’ve never been that deep into Zigbee).
Our hub (V3) is now 3 floors down and ~30 feet away; we still get an instant response from my wall switches, the app, automations, and even an Alexa.
I believe this is do to Zigbee’s 2.4 GHz and Phillip’s proprietary Zigbee implementation.
Upvote
1
(1
/
0)
Which hub do you use? We have the "V2.1", hardwired, on firmware 1.53.1953188020 and it works instantly three floors away from all the Hue lights. Definitely no line of sight.
We don't have many lights, though: does that make it faster? I think ~8 bulbs total.
Upvote
0
(0
/
0)
Matter isn't a replacement for ZigBee. Matter devices can connect to your network via WiFi, ZigBee, Thread, BT, or just about anything else.
But I think I see what you're saying. If you had ZigBee hubs that supported Matter, could they both connect to a Matter controller over your network. I don't see why they wouldn't. Unfortunately, Matter is just launching right now so there isn't a lot of hardware to play with yet.
Upvote
0
(0
/
0)
Yes. As long as you're Matter Wi-Fi devices are on the same LAN, all Matter commands are routed.
For Matter Thread devices, yes, but you'll need an Ethernet-connected Thread Border router (akin to the 2nd Zigbee hub in your example). But, to make this work best and avoid split Thread networks (something I can't believe they allowed pre-Thread-1.3.0), you'll need the latest Thread 1.3.0 release (which coincides with Matter's launch).
Thread 1.3.0 converges all Thread devices into a single Thread network, no matter the vendor.
For your use case, Thread is probably the best bet: genuine mesh, multiple Thread border routers allow the fastest connections (e.g., send your commands over low-latency Wi-Fi or Ethernet for as long as possible, and only use Thread at the edges).
I don't know how many Thread 1.3.0 border routers have released, but I think the Aoetec (nee SmartThings) Hub V3 might be one.
Upvote
1
(2
/
-1)
From a consumer point: significantly better than what we have now, which is nothing, but it all depends on what you use to control Matter. If you use, for example, Google, well, then it's Google's privacy policy.
Matter itself as an application protocol:
- local-only; by itself, it has no connection to the cloud.
- mandatory OTA functionality
- factory-to-consumer hardware attestation
- mandatory AES-CCM-128
- mandatory Matter certification
Then, there's the nitty-gritty in the specification:
Matter Specification (cookie-daily.life)
//
There are some options for DIY systems, where the security requirements can be loosened, e.g., you don't need a Matter certified device. Of course, this comes with all the normal caveats.
Can you use a DIY Matter product? Yes, but... - Stacey on IoT | Internet of Things news and analysis
See Section 5.5 here:
Upvote
3
(3
/
0)
I've got the square hub, so that's a V2, bought in early 2016. They all need to be connected via ethernet as mine is. Version 1.55 with 10 lights of different styles but all Philips hue, 1 motion sensor and 8 switches.
If I don't leave the hub out in the open, the switches would fail to operate the lights often enough that my partner wants to rip it all out and use dumb lights. Using the app of course works reliably since that talks to the bridge through the wifi which has a strong signal. I just assumed that the zigbee signals were weaker since I don't otherwise have issues with wifi devices in my house.
Upvote
0
(0
/
0)
You should check that. All of my hue bulbs can be updated through zigbee2mqtt. I’ve never used a Philips hub with them. If they show up in the OTA tab, it means they’re already running the latest firmware that zigbee2mqtt links to. New versions require they get added both to a GitHub repo and a new version of z2m is released.
Upvote
1
(1
/
0)
No it doesn't. ZigBee uses the 2.4ghz frequency and Hue bulbs are routers so as long as it can reach one light, that light can connect to the next light. Adding lights extends you ZigBee network as long as they are router devices and not endpoints which some cheaper Zigbee bulbs are. All Hue lights are routers so all it has to do is be in reach of the first bulb. Not every bulb has to connect directly to the hub. Matter will work on the same way.
Upvote
1
(2
/
-1)
You are right, it looks like almost Hue lights can be updated via Z2M. Maybe it was the particular Hue lights I had as they didn't show up in the OTA tab but I no longer own those so they may have been added. It appears almost all seem to be updatable once they get added to the GitHub index after looking at the supported Zigbee2MQTT devices list for Phillips lights.
Upvote
0
(0
/
0)
I think the main point is they don't have to 100 percent rely on the internet. I remember reading a few years ago about some smart home thermostat company that went out of business. When they shut down the servers their thermostats stopped working completely. You couldn't even use them as dumb thermostats. They simply stopped working and they had to be replaced just to turn on the AC or heat manually. If you use a voice assistant like Alexa or Google that relies on the internet. There are some open source voice assistants like almond and snips that are 100 percent local.
Per the standard everything would still work without the internet but you would probably have to use that snoopy app unless you have a local open source project like HA setup on your network. A voice assistant like almond or snips would still work without internet. You can plug in a microphone and speaker to a raspberry p with HA installed and use these voice assistants with no internet and have everything work and they are also much faster because everything is over LAN where Alexa and Google are essentially doing webhooks to control smart devices so they still require internet to control anything
Upvote
1
(1
/
0)
The major issue I see is companies making products which would allegedly play nice with the "open" standard but gating features in a way that prevents you from actually using them. Like they do now with gating features. A Nest Thermostat won't operate, even if the controlling device is on the same network, unless you give it an Internet connection to allow them to both gather data and control your thermostat. Maybe they changed in the few years since I tried to set one up, or maybe they'll change to adopt this new standard properly, but I'm not holding my breath.
It's crap like that which makes me skeptical of the whole "hey, it's an open standard and everybody will play nice" thing.
Upvote
0
(0
/
0)