Google Nest and Android devices are now Matter controllers (for future devices)
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Sounds nice. I've got a Hubitat controlling a mix of Zigbee and Z-Wave devices, and it integrates with Google Home (which I use as a front-end), but the experience isn't the best. The cloud connection can be a little flakey, and it's never ideal to reach out to the cloud to control something local to you.
Nice thing about Android is that it's got a basic (a little too basic, but I digress) device manager built into the notification pull-down. So turning off a light someone left on upstairs requires only a swipe down and a button press. No app launch.
I mean, there's also voice control, but I still feel like a jackass talking to myself when I use it.
Nice thing about Android is that it's got a basic (a little too basic, but I digress) device manager built into the notification pull-down. So turning off a light someone left on upstairs requires only a swipe down and a button press. No app launch.
I mean, there's also voice control, but I still feel like a jackass talking to myself when I use it.
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I recently got some flic switches -- been enjoying hooking them into our home automation. Nice mix of directly controlling local devices and also being able to hook into my cloud logic.
It'll be better when I don't have to make much distinction anymore. So, yay, Matter!
It'll be better when I don't have to make much distinction anymore. So, yay, Matter!
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What I'm most looking forward to is the day when all of my Phillips Hue lights work with the Apple Home app without a hub. I don't have a very firm grasp on whether Matter and / or Thread will enable this – my non-tech eyes go dead when I start to research this – but I'm holding out hope.
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Is Matter going to become the dominant standard? I'm almost exclusively Z-wave now (and was Insteon before that), should I be looking for Matter when I buy new devices?
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As soon as the Nest Learning Thermostat gest Matter, I'm buying one. I've been waiting YEARS for it to officially make it work in the Home app and it looks like the wait won't be long. Crossing fingers.
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Will be waiting a long time, Hue lamps are Zigbee and they are only going to support Matter at the hub level, they haven't announced any plans to start making Thread lamps
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Unfortunately, not soon. Phillips has instead made their Phillips Hue bridge as a Zigbee-to-Matter bridge so it’ll work with Matter quite well.
But, Phillips (eh “Signify”) have indicated they’re not looking at Thread (yet) which would do away with the dedicated Zigbee hub, but require a Thread Border Router somewhere in your house.
Which sounds like replacing one box with another.
But, Thread Border Routers are teeny-tiny and are embedded into most hardwired Thread-enabled devices anyways.
Hell, you could embed Thread Border Routers in light bulb.
//
Source: https://matter-smarthome.de/en/interview-en/we-dont-have-plans-to-build-thread-light-bulbs/
Some of their concerns are alleviated with Thread 1.3.0, which unified all Thread networks into a single network (think one SSID vs many).
TL; DR: I might not wait for Phillips to upgrade to hub-less/BR-based Thread, but instead stick the Hub box somewhere dark and hidden, as it’ll work with Matter in 2023.
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As another Z-Wave user, the Z-Wave Alliance did call their own devices as “legacy” devices compared to new Matter networks, so…take that as you will.
https://z-wavealliance.org/matter-1...rotocols-and-smart-home-consumers-everywhere/
We can bring Z-Wave devices into Matter with an official Z-Wave Matter Bridge…once one ever releases.
The silicon is there—just waiting for it to be integrated into a newer Z-Wave Hub. But, TBH, it does not look good for Z-Wave development long-term unless they can truly convince users why it’s better than Thread, its closest Matter competitor. Or the Z-Wave Alliance can formally push their somewhat forlorn Z-Wave IP systems that could theoretically have a much easier fit as a native protocol.
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Luckily, there will be non-Google Matter networks.
With Google Assistant and Alexa apparently not making much money for their capitalist overlords, I’m hopeful smaller companies can try innovating in the smart speaker space.
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Thanks for the info. This was really helpful and made good sense to me.
The Hue hub is no big deal – just another box among many – but I think my Eero router set-up now supports Thread, so it would be great to offload a hub. I hate the technological clutter.
Anyway, thanks again. I appreciate the time you took to explain that!!!
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So my first gen Google hub can control Matter devices over wi-fi, but not Thread, as it's not a Thread Border Router?
If there's (later) just one Border Router in the house will the Matter message reach (future) Thread devices* from the Hub first over wi-fi from Hub to Border Router then Thread? And additional Border Routers will add increased resilience?
*Assuming these devices are not also Border Routers themselves.
Man, that was hard to write.
If there's (later) just one Border Router in the house will the Matter message reach (future) Thread devices* from the Hub first over wi-fi from Hub to Border Router then Thread? And additional Border Routers will add increased resilience?
*Assuming these devices are not also Border Routers themselves.
Man, that was hard to write.
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Granted I haven't read much, but I thought "border routers" were only for getting your local devices talking to the greater internet, and are optional. IE I use Home Assistant and can access that from anywhere, my devices themselves don't need to talk with the internet at large.
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The thing I'll miss about Z-Wave is the rigid standardization, yes it comes with some extra expense attached and some limited availability, but you know with a zwave device that there's basically 100% chance you can get it working with an open source or open driver zwave hub. There's none of the guessing that comes with zigbee devices where they might use weird proprietary extensions that you can't get working (though TBH zigbee 3.1 made this much better, hopefully matter/thread continue that trend).As another Z-Wave user, the Z-Wave Alliance did call their own devices as “legacy” devices compared to new Matter networks, so…take that as you will.
https://z-wavealliance.org/matter-1...rotocols-and-smart-home-consumers-everywhere/
We can bring Z-Wave devices into Matter with an official Z-Wave Matter Bridge…once one ever releases.
But, TBH, it does not look good for Z-Wave development long-term unless they can truly convince users why it’s better than Thread, its closest Matter competitor. Or the Z-Wave Alliance can formally push their somewhat forlorn Z-Wave IP systems that could theoretically have a much easier fit as a native protocol.
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It's encrypted, if that's what you're asking. They also make a big deal about being able to push firmware updates over Matter, probably because IoT is notorious for not keeping shit up to date.
Privacy is a little more complicated. That's like asking how private is HTTP. If you keep everything within your own network and never let anything leave? Pretty damn private.
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Yes, though the message might go to the cloud instead of hub to border router, that's the part that annoys me at this point, not enough control over how things interact with the border router to keep things local, at least with the commercial offerings that I've read up on to date.
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Thread Border Routers are devices that connect Thread IoT devices to, in this case, your home network. Thread is like ZigBee. You're going to want something to allow you to control your Thread devices from other devices.
If you're using HA, you'll probably just want HA to handle that. Someone deep into Apple's ecosystem is probably fine just using an AppleTV. A Googler can use a Nest Hub. Etc.
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I thought that until now, when I studied this picture from an older story - and this shows the Thread Border Router hanging off of WiFi inside the home network
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wha? Tell me more about this dropdown thing!
What versions of Android? I don't have this feature, but it sounds GREAT.
A also sometimes dont want to ask out loud
The Home app isn't hard, but a simple swipe and click would be awesome
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In 13 (and probably a few versions before), there's a quick setting tile called "Device controls."wha? Tell me more about this dropdown thing!
What versions of Android? I don't have this feature, but it sounds GREAT.
A also sometimes dont want to ask out loud
The Home app isn't hard, but a simple swipe and click would be awesome
An earlier version (11 or 12, can't remember) let you bring it up by long pressing the power button, but they swapped that for bringing up Assistant for some reason.
If you use Home Assistant, the app allows you to define custom actions with a dedicated quick toggle button, so if there's something you want to do very quickly, you can do that instead of jumping into the Device controls thing. Same thing with custom widgets as well.
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And I would bother setting up to work with Google because I should expect it to be a long-term stable and supported platform that I can sit back and know I won't have to worry about it going away?
/s
/s
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I once had an extensive X10/Insteon system before I moved. I never was on the Zigbee/Z-Wave bandwagon because I started before those existed, and I chose Insteon due to X10 compatibility and HomeSeer support at the time.
My current simple “automation” is a hodgepodge of separate apps on my mobiles, for RGB lightbulbs and christmas lights, and the similar.
I’m really looking forward to seeing hubs ”matterize” or ”materialize” (pun!) a lot of non-matter devices, so that I may be able to control my existing RGB bulbs via Matter!
And then add more matter devices like water overflow sensors and forgotten-sink-faucet sensors (I’m deaf, so I can’t hear when I forget to turn off a water tap), and perhaps even go full-automation again. If it matters. (pun!)
In the 1990s, deaf-accessibility devices with vibrators were expensive, but stringing together common home automation stuff to integrate alerts to my phone/smartwatch is nice — but often a nightmare of cherrypicking, incompatibility, or high-maintenance, especially during a move. Um, no matter, I’ll just make do without until my next move yet again. (pun!)
I look forward to Matter making it easier to hook an existing burglar alarm and smoke alarm to my smartphone and RGB lights normally incompatible with these systems without “high-risk-of-becoming-orphaned” hubs. That serious safety stuff matters to me. (pun!)
My current simple “automation” is a hodgepodge of separate apps on my mobiles, for RGB lightbulbs and christmas lights, and the similar.
I’m really looking forward to seeing hubs ”matterize” or ”materialize” (pun!) a lot of non-matter devices, so that I may be able to control my existing RGB bulbs via Matter!
And then add more matter devices like water overflow sensors and forgotten-sink-faucet sensors (I’m deaf, so I can’t hear when I forget to turn off a water tap), and perhaps even go full-automation again. If it matters. (pun!)
In the 1990s, deaf-accessibility devices with vibrators were expensive, but stringing together common home automation stuff to integrate alerts to my phone/smartwatch is nice — but often a nightmare of cherrypicking, incompatibility, or high-maintenance, especially during a move. Um, no matter, I’ll just make do without until my next move yet again. (pun!)
I look forward to Matter making it easier to hook an existing burglar alarm and smoke alarm to my smartphone and RGB lights normally incompatible with these systems without “high-risk-of-becoming-orphaned” hubs. That serious safety stuff matters to me. (pun!)
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As sad as that might be, you have the choice of Amazon, Google and Apple for voice recognizing Matter "input" devices, and to some extent Samsung. It's better that Google is, rather than not, playing nice.
Nest mini's are dime a dozen lately, risk won't be so much going the Google route. Echo dot is just as cheap lately, especially in second hand or one of Amazon's stupid cheap deals, but they can be annoying as hell when they push unsolicited crap. The alternates being Apple homepods or some kinda homebrew and their "cost" is much more...
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Crap, Im using a bit too old.
Yeah I have a few quick actions defined in widgets, but I was hoping for something less specific.
Thanks for the info! I also now have a term I can search for to get more details
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The hue hub needs to be out in the open though, because the zigbee bulbs and accessories need to be able to reach it. Otherwise, you suffer from high latency in response or just flat out lack of response when you press buttons on your switches.
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Most building materials are fairly transparent to 2.4GHz. ZigBee would be pretty useless if it required line of sight.
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I’m giving it another 6 months to shake out. We’ll be seeing a lot of announcements in the coming weeks ahead of CES. Then a gap of a few months before gear really starts shipping. Then another few months as early adopters find the inevitable bugs and vendors issue patches.
By mid-2023, things will have settled down to the point we have multiple options for each product type.
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Yes, I think this is an important bit of future proofing.
Now, I can buy new devices like thermostats, light bulbs, switches, etc. and I'm not tied to one protocol and one controller. So, I can get it all working w/ GHome right now and then if/when google fucks that up, I can replace GHome w/ Home Assistant or something else. And I don't have to change all my switches and light bulbs.
And even if google doesn't fuck up GHome, I can still decide I'd rather move things local and not go thru their cloud.
Much better than the situation a couple months ago.
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except, I think this time, there are pretty compelling reasons for smart device mfrs to support Matter. Since it extends their market reach significantly. Don't have to create two versions, one of which works w/ google and amazon and one of which works w/ apple. Don't have to create a wifi light switch and a z-wave light switch.I have a feeling it will end up like this:
Which even if it doesn't save them any particular dev or manufacturing cost, reduces buyer anxiety and takes a barrier to purchase away.
So far at least this seems like the rare standardization effort that's being done right.
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Not to be "that guy" on a Google / Android article, but Apple TV 4K is now a Matter / Thread border router and iOS 16, Watch OS 9.2, etc all support Matter now.
Echo is supposed to be rolling out limited support for some Echo devices.
I think I'm going to hold off making any changes ATM and start looking at this in the last half of next year. I have a ton of Hue stuff and a bunch of WeMo stuff. Apparently the Hue stuff will be Matter compatible, but not the WeMo stuff (according to Belkin) Should still work with Alexa / HomeKit though.
Echo is supposed to be rolling out limited support for some Echo devices.
I think I'm going to hold off making any changes ATM and start looking at this in the last half of next year. I have a ton of Hue stuff and a bunch of WeMo stuff. Apparently the Hue stuff will be Matter compatible, but not the WeMo stuff (according to Belkin) Should still work with Alexa / HomeKit though.
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I keep hearing about this and am mostly waiting to deploy around the house because of it, save a dozen or so Kasa devices.
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The biggest issue with Matter is a universal app to control everything. If you do a Google search for "Matter, The Great Universal Smart Home Standard, Is Already Fragmented" there is a good article about how it's already a mess, at least in version 1.0. It points out how they are still leaving how matter is implemented up to the manufacturer which means you still need multiple hubs and multiple apps. Below is a copy/paste from that article.
<-- begin copy/paste
Philips Hue: Philips Hue will not allow any form of multi-admin control at all. You’ll have to control Philips Hue (and only Philips Hue) devices in the Hue app.
Update: Since publishing this article, a Philips Hue PR rep reached out to clarify that Hue Devices will be open for control in other apps. Other devices can not be controlled in the Hue app. That’s a shame, as the Hue app is easily one of the best smart home apps available. But still an improvement over what we were originally told.
WiZ: WiZ, which shares the same parent company as Philips Hue, will also allow its devices to be controlled by other apps. But it won’t update its app to control other devices.
Nanoleaf: Nanoleaf will also allow its devices to be controlled by other apps, but it’s unclear if you’ll get to control other devices in the Nanoleaf app.
Aqara: Aqara will allow both control of its devices through other apps, and controlling other devices through its apps. However, you’ll need an updated hub, and the current one isn’t Thread capable. Aqara plans to release an updated multi-protocol hub later.
Eve: Eve is, simply put, the gold standard of Matter. The company will update its app to control other Matter devices and allow its existing devices to work in other Matter-compatible apps. Eve is far ahead of nearly every company, having long supported the Thread protocol. (Eve currently doesn't have an Android app though, only iOS but they are working on an Android app).
--> end copy/paste
Hopefully the above will change but as a HA user, I don't care as the latest release of Home Assistant added Matter support and Home Assistant can now be a Thread border router. You can get a Home Assistant SkyConnect, which is a 30 dollar USB dongle that is ZigBee 3.0 and will get an update to support Matter. It's plug and play. The only issue is Nabu Casa has just recently started selling hardware and they can't keep up with the demand. Right now I have a 30 dollar Deconz USB ZigBee 3.0 adapter. I can do firmware updates to most but not all ZigBee devices (Hue is about the only one that doesn't allow it) with Zigbee2MQTT.
It controls Hue lights, Aqara devices, and pretty much any ZigBee, Bluetooth, Wifi, Z wave devices, and is an Android ADB network controller for my Sony Android TV so I can either tell Alexa or Google to "turn on Sony Netflix" and have Netflix instantly open on my Sony TV.. All in one app and being able to use the same trigger words for Google Assistant and Alexa. All local outside the webhooks for voice control as it pushes everything to Google and Amazon automatically if you allow it to.. They currently support over 2000 integrations, everything from lights up to cars. Nabu Casa also acquired ESPHome which allows you to flash devices over Wifi with a browse like Wifi lights. Their UI interface has come a long way, especially for scripts and automations. You used to have to know YAML but that's changed a lot. In fact, Google has shown off an advanced automation/routine utility and it uses YAML and it is 100 percent a rip off of HA. It's in beta but if you looked at it compared to HA, the YAML is 100 percent the same. It's also all documented by HA/Nabu Casa very well and has a huge user support base if you are just starting out
HA used to require some technical knowledge but that's changed a lot. I recently purchased a Aqara P1 motion sensor. Home Assistant saw it as soon as I yanked the plastic between the battery and the connector. Within 15 minutes I had it set up in my mailbox and created an automation to send me a text message anytime the mail is delivered with the date and time in the text message. Or at least everytime the mailbox is open. It can track energy usage from smart switches and solar panels and track smartphones (if you want). All through the GUI utilities built into Home Assistant, no YAML needed anymore except for very complex automations.
While not personally an Apple user you can set it up as a HomeKit Controller. It just emulates it so you can have Android and Apple devices all work in the same app. Not sure about Siri but not an Apple user so haven't looked into that personally. To me, HA is the glue that fixed the issue Matter is trying to solve while Matter is leaving some things up to manufacturers to pick and choose what you can control with their apps and hubs. Considering a Hue hub is like 50 bucks, having a raspberry pi 4 and ZigBee USB adapter do all that for 60 to 70.bucks is a no brainer to me.
The thing that's always confused me is ZigBee is just a protocol like Wifi yet everyone makes you buy seperate hubs Why? Well money of course but imagine if you had to buy different wifi routers with say, a D-Link router only working with D-Link WiFi devices while needing a Asus router to get WiFi with devices with an Asus wifi adapters. That's just an analogy but that's the way I've always thought of it. While Matter is trying to solve that issue it's already solved to me personally. With HA you can control almost any ZigBee devices with one adapter that's cheaper then most of not all ZigBee hubs by Hue, Aqara, and others.
<-- begin copy/paste
Philips Hue: Philips Hue will not allow any form of multi-admin control at all. You’ll have to control Philips Hue (and only Philips Hue) devices in the Hue app.
Update: Since publishing this article, a Philips Hue PR rep reached out to clarify that Hue Devices will be open for control in other apps. Other devices can not be controlled in the Hue app. That’s a shame, as the Hue app is easily one of the best smart home apps available. But still an improvement over what we were originally told.
WiZ: WiZ, which shares the same parent company as Philips Hue, will also allow its devices to be controlled by other apps. But it won’t update its app to control other devices.
Nanoleaf: Nanoleaf will also allow its devices to be controlled by other apps, but it’s unclear if you’ll get to control other devices in the Nanoleaf app.
Aqara: Aqara will allow both control of its devices through other apps, and controlling other devices through its apps. However, you’ll need an updated hub, and the current one isn’t Thread capable. Aqara plans to release an updated multi-protocol hub later.
Eve: Eve is, simply put, the gold standard of Matter. The company will update its app to control other Matter devices and allow its existing devices to work in other Matter-compatible apps. Eve is far ahead of nearly every company, having long supported the Thread protocol. (Eve currently doesn't have an Android app though, only iOS but they are working on an Android app).
--> end copy/paste
Hopefully the above will change but as a HA user, I don't care as the latest release of Home Assistant added Matter support and Home Assistant can now be a Thread border router. You can get a Home Assistant SkyConnect, which is a 30 dollar USB dongle that is ZigBee 3.0 and will get an update to support Matter. It's plug and play. The only issue is Nabu Casa has just recently started selling hardware and they can't keep up with the demand. Right now I have a 30 dollar Deconz USB ZigBee 3.0 adapter. I can do firmware updates to most but not all ZigBee devices (Hue is about the only one that doesn't allow it) with Zigbee2MQTT.
It controls Hue lights, Aqara devices, and pretty much any ZigBee, Bluetooth, Wifi, Z wave devices, and is an Android ADB network controller for my Sony Android TV so I can either tell Alexa or Google to "turn on Sony Netflix" and have Netflix instantly open on my Sony TV.. All in one app and being able to use the same trigger words for Google Assistant and Alexa. All local outside the webhooks for voice control as it pushes everything to Google and Amazon automatically if you allow it to.. They currently support over 2000 integrations, everything from lights up to cars. Nabu Casa also acquired ESPHome which allows you to flash devices over Wifi with a browse like Wifi lights. Their UI interface has come a long way, especially for scripts and automations. You used to have to know YAML but that's changed a lot. In fact, Google has shown off an advanced automation/routine utility and it uses YAML and it is 100 percent a rip off of HA. It's in beta but if you looked at it compared to HA, the YAML is 100 percent the same. It's also all documented by HA/Nabu Casa very well and has a huge user support base if you are just starting out
HA used to require some technical knowledge but that's changed a lot. I recently purchased a Aqara P1 motion sensor. Home Assistant saw it as soon as I yanked the plastic between the battery and the connector. Within 15 minutes I had it set up in my mailbox and created an automation to send me a text message anytime the mail is delivered with the date and time in the text message. Or at least everytime the mailbox is open. It can track energy usage from smart switches and solar panels and track smartphones (if you want). All through the GUI utilities built into Home Assistant, no YAML needed anymore except for very complex automations.
While not personally an Apple user you can set it up as a HomeKit Controller. It just emulates it so you can have Android and Apple devices all work in the same app. Not sure about Siri but not an Apple user so haven't looked into that personally. To me, HA is the glue that fixed the issue Matter is trying to solve while Matter is leaving some things up to manufacturers to pick and choose what you can control with their apps and hubs. Considering a Hue hub is like 50 bucks, having a raspberry pi 4 and ZigBee USB adapter do all that for 60 to 70.bucks is a no brainer to me.
The thing that's always confused me is ZigBee is just a protocol like Wifi yet everyone makes you buy seperate hubs Why? Well money of course but imagine if you had to buy different wifi routers with say, a D-Link router only working with D-Link WiFi devices while needing a Asus router to get WiFi with devices with an Asus wifi adapters. That's just an analogy but that's the way I've always thought of it. While Matter is trying to solve that issue it's already solved to me personally. With HA you can control almost any ZigBee devices with one adapter that's cheaper then most of not all ZigBee hubs by Hue, Aqara, and others.
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I've had a hue lighting system for 6+ years, so speaking from practical experience. It doesn't require everything to be line of sight since it can daisy-chain, but your hub needs to have a clear signal to at least one lightbulb, and that in turn needs to be able to daisy-chain to other members of the network, otherwise you suffer. Lightbulbs obviously are out in the open so no problems there.
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