Google confirms Android dev verification will have free and paid tiers, no public list of devs
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It doesn’t sound any different from what Apple is currently doing in the EU, and that seems to have gotten some measure of grudging acceptance. Though the EU has been known to “creatively interpret” the DMA when it suits them, so who knows.
Apple also still retains the ability to decide which apps to approve or block in the EU, even for third party app stores. If push comes to shove, I suspect the EU government will be making similar “requests” of Apple as well.
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Such a piece of shit move. Honestly if not being more open what does android actually offer that’s better rather than just using Apple? It’s literally their only pro.
Apple is better is basically every way and the ecosystem is a million times better, basically every single thing in it works really well with everything in it.
Outside of graphene now there isn’t much point using an android phone, and they are even standing on that’s neck now, not releasing sources, embargoing security patches etc.
As a mostly android/ pixel and nexus user I moved to Apple, I hope it’s worth losing long time buyers of your products and OS over.
Apple is better is basically every way and the ecosystem is a million times better, basically every single thing in it works really well with everything in it.
Outside of graphene now there isn’t much point using an android phone, and they are even standing on that’s neck now, not releasing sources, embargoing security patches etc.
As a mostly android/ pixel and nexus user I moved to Apple, I hope it’s worth losing long time buyers of your products and OS over.
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BananaWarrior
Ars Praetorian
I just jumped ship to iPhone this week after using android for 15 years.
Been using lineage Os for the past 5 years or so, but google is working hard to handicap custom roms too.
Been using lineage Os for the past 5 years or so, but google is working hard to handicap custom roms too.
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I am definitely going to be trying to switch to a fairphone 6 and installing a Linux distro on it for my next phone. Sideloading is the main reason I run Android. If they turn it into ios but run by an ad company their I might as well either go with Apple or a Linux phone. I just hope that Linux phones will be able to work for me. Thankfully I don't do to much on my phone beyond the basics.
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Dear Sundar,
Thank you for all of the surveillance data you have been giving us. We really like this "no warrant, no subpoena necessary" deal that we have going since January.. Chefs kiss! It's much better than that gold thing that Tim apple gave us.
It has come to our attention that the radical left likes to side load.
This makes us sad because our ICE agents and now--stripped-down facade of an FBI agency can't police all of possible "wrongdoings" or pro democratic activities... Did I say pro democratic..? That sounds too American and relatable. I meant to say the radical left, antifa activities that could possibly happen due to this radical side loading...
Whatever you do Sundar, don't tell anyone about the internet or PWAs.. They might want to use them instead.
Thank you for the attention in this manner.
Love as always,
Don-Don
Thank you for all of the surveillance data you have been giving us. We really like this "no warrant, no subpoena necessary" deal that we have going since January.. Chefs kiss! It's much better than that gold thing that Tim apple gave us.
It has come to our attention that the radical left likes to side load.
This makes us sad because our ICE agents and now--stripped-down facade of an FBI agency can't police all of possible "wrongdoings" or pro democratic activities... Did I say pro democratic..? That sounds too American and relatable. I meant to say the radical left, antifa activities that could possibly happen due to this radical side loading...
Whatever you do Sundar, don't tell anyone about the internet or PWAs.. They might want to use them instead.
Thank you for the attention in this manner.
Love as always,
Don-Don
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Wow, hyperbole much? It surely has problems like all things but to call it "almost unusable"? When its literally the most used app store in the entire world delivering access to billions of people?
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Google can fuck right off. Most of the things that drove me towards Android are moot now.
I'm currently waiting for Graphene OS to either announce Pixel 10 support (yes, I'm aware of the irony in buying a Google-made phone to ditch Google) or an OEM phone.
If that doesn't pan out I might look into Sailfish or even switch to an iPhone.
Considering how much time the phone steals by being enticingly always there, what I really want is a fairly dumb phone that can run all the essential apps (transportation, banking, music) and then a Linux tablet for reading, gaming and videos. Maybe Sailfish is actually that...
I'm currently waiting for Graphene OS to either announce Pixel 10 support (yes, I'm aware of the irony in buying a Google-made phone to ditch Google) or an OEM phone.
If that doesn't pan out I might look into Sailfish or even switch to an iPhone.
Considering how much time the phone steals by being enticingly always there, what I really want is a fairly dumb phone that can run all the essential apps (transportation, banking, music) and then a Linux tablet for reading, gaming and videos. Maybe Sailfish is actually that...
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Looking forward (not) to using Altstore (the Classic method) to install custom apps on iPhones being just as "easy" as installing custom apks on Android. 
EDIT: Please stop using "sideloading". Or use it everywhere.
EDIT: Please stop using "sideloading". Or use it everywhere.
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You could always go for a Pixel 9 series. Full GrapheneOS support, 6 remaining years of security/OS updates, and relatively minor hardware differences from the 10 series. Cheaper, too, especially used.
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The EU has had plenty of time to complain about Apple's app notarization, and they have complained about plenty of other things, so at this point we can conclude that they accept it as an appropriate security measure. Something explicitly permitted in the DMA with no creative interpretation necessary.
The EU really doesn't want a sudden rise in malware making the DMA look bad to their own citizens. Giving either Apple or Google a further excuse to blame them for such an outcome (which lets be honest is a very likely outcome) would be political suicide.
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With Android there is a much broader range of things to mix and match. E.g. the hardware: I don't care about cameras, I have other priorities, and my phone is a midranger with a replaceable battery and 2TB storage. Apple has nothing like that. The OS and UI I can largely set up the way I want, and that is good because I know better what works for me than Apple does. I don't have to deal with the Apple looks - entirely subjective of course, but not everyone is enamored with Apple design, and I'm really tired of it.
That would mean I'd need not only an iPhone, but also a Mac, as iPhones don't work well with Linux IMHO. And I cannot stand Macs and MacOS, I've tried. Weird and clunky UI, hideous design - again, subjective of course, but a major con for me. "Ecosystem", I prefer reasonably open standards.
I have some issues with Android as well, but at the moment it remains an easy choice over Apple for me. If they lock this down too much I'm more likely to go back to a dumbphone rather than switching to an iPhone.
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Where are we in terms of maturity on the respective Android forks, Linux adaptations, etc? I was excited for the Ubuntu Phone back in the day, but that of course never happened, and this was the first time I've seen Sailfish mentioned in years.
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You appear to be a "hobbyist" and they have a (TBD) policy for you, which appears to be free.
Free beats the $99 (or so) charged by Apple annually.
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Does this mean that the new rules/tech will only affect current phones, and if you have a much older one, the rules won't be enforced?
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Yes. Adb installing locally developed apps is not affected. How else would you develop otherwise?
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Primary function that EU loves about this is censorship and control over what apps are available. With this they can easily block all apps that have actual security (see chat control proposal among others).
Population here has been voting wrong lately so EU has been busy making sure that we peasants can't do that anymore.
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As far as I understand this, I'll still be able to use FDroid and I'll still be able to install apps via ADB. So this shouldn't be too bad.
I stopped using custom ROMs back then with my Pixel 3a and I don't think I will need to do this again. But if worst comes to worst, I'll still be able to unlock the bootloader and do whatever I want. I don't think Google will remove this feature, because Pixel phones still need to be developer-friendly. At least I hope so.
I stopped using custom ROMs back then with my Pixel 3a and I don't think I will need to do this again. But if worst comes to worst, I'll still be able to unlock the bootloader and do whatever I want. I don't think Google will remove this feature, because Pixel phones still need to be developer-friendly. At least I hope so.
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The EU will complain about their new shit. Even if the US doesn't.
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You mean buy a Google device in order to show our disapproval of what Google is doing?
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Two years daily-driving a Librem 5.
Bank app works on Waydroid.
If you are not doing multiple hours of YouTube per day or tons of Instabooking, it works just fine.
And other options out there may even be better than the Librem5-PureOS combo.
On the plus side, I wrote a program to help me calculate exposure and focus for my field camera in 2-3 hours by connecting my phone to a USB-C screen and writing it straight on gnome builder.
Bank app works on Waydroid.
If you are not doing multiple hours of YouTube per day or tons of Instabooking, it works just fine.
And other options out there may even be better than the Librem5-PureOS combo.
On the plus side, I wrote a program to help me calculate exposure and focus for my field camera in 2-3 hours by connecting my phone to a USB-C screen and writing it straight on gnome builder.
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Apple isn't any better.You mean buy a Google device in order to show our disapproval of what Google is doing?
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"The verification process will mirror the current Google Play registration fee of $25, which Google claims will go to cover administrative costs."
Administrative costs that they have fabricated for no good reason. Why do we have to worry so much about locking down out phones when our computers are wide open?
Administrative costs that they have fabricated for no good reason. Why do we have to worry so much about locking down out phones when our computers are wide open?
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That's only an upside if you want to go all-in on Apple. I have a Windows laptop, Android phone, and iPad Pro. Of the three, the iPad is the one that plays the least nice with others. Google's and Microsoft's apps and services are cross platform. Apple's aren't.
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man, this is just the worst possible time to be losing the last free mobile platform.
on top of that they've stopped publishing to AOSP, and they've stopped publishing the device trees for Pixel devices. all of this meaning ROMs are going to get more out of date and less secure making them less of a viable option.
I think they knew ROMs would be the last resort to escape their tightening control, so they choose to kill them at the same time.
Contact your representatives! Read FDroid's post on this.
We shouldn't give up this freedom to actually own our devices without at least a fight.
also look at alternatives, it's not mature enough yet, but Sailfish OS is a possible option.
on top of that they've stopped publishing to AOSP, and they've stopped publishing the device trees for Pixel devices. all of this meaning ROMs are going to get more out of date and less secure making them less of a viable option.
I think they knew ROMs would be the last resort to escape their tightening control, so they choose to kill them at the same time.
Contact your representatives! Read FDroid's post on this.
We shouldn't give up this freedom to actually own our devices without at least a fight.
also look at alternatives, it's not mature enough yet, but Sailfish OS is a possible option.
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I can't stand Phosh and the default apps, so I installed PostmarketOS with plasma-mobile. The shell itself is a lot snappier!
That is more usable, but one thing reaaaly stops me: I don't want to give up my hobbies, and for that I need various non-free messaging platforms. Any tips?
Also the fact that all TCP connections die when it goes into powersaving (suspend) is kind of an issue... Any other tips?
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YetAnotherAnonymousAppellation
Ars Praefectus
So now I have to decide between maintaining security by allowing this upgrade or maintaining access to F-Droid by denying it. Of course, that depends on whether this crap ends up killing F-Droid outright.
I am so fed up with smartphone nonsense that I'm sorely tempted to just say "F*** It" and dig out the old Moto Razor in the closet.
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YetAnotherAnonymousAppellation
Ars Praefectus
Ha ha! Unless your representative is a Repugnican and you include a huge "campaign contribution", that will go nowhere.
Info on Sailfish seems pretty sparse and their website is far from helpful.
Is there a more definitive site on the pros and cons if going this route?
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Sure they are. Google has yet to figure out how to record names into a database properly. They won't be able to do this properly either.
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Can someone explain to me how this is different than Google becoming a certificate authority and requiring code signing with an issued developer certificate before an app can be run (unless it is ad hoc signed with a device-specific key via ADB install)?
For example, other than Google not using the CA infrastructure and instead using a different type of signing key, I’m very confused by the pushback to code signing, as it has been implemented and required by both iOS and macOS for decades. (The initial implementation of code signing on macOS was solely to give the built-in password manager an immutable hash that could be used to verify the source of an app hadn’t changed between updates despite the binaries being different).
Remember, a signing certificate can never be used to create trust, it can only be used to maintain trust (for this example, “This thing by Company Y that I decided to trust once based on external factors is still the from the Company Y that I trusted then”)
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Internet and PWAs? Not on Chrome then because they are trying hard to kill those too.
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I don't care what the policy is, because (1) they can change it, and (2) any policy that's not "it's your computer, run whatever software you want, you don't need our permission" is f@#$ing unacceptable.
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Be ready to wait a long time then. Relatives of mine are using very, very old Android phones.
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Why? They are not verifying the app, they are only verifying that a known developer signed the app. If you want to sign up for hobbyist verification then build and sign some random GitHub repo and side load it. The impact of that is still on you. They are just limiting the blast radius of an unknown developer distributing something malicious. Now "hopefully" the identity of a bad actor is known or their impact is contained by the limited number of installs available to students and hobbyist. I imagine bad actors will just commit identity theft before signing up for verification.
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The difference is that under the android method rather than the iOS scheme the app could be distributed for side loading in open source form where each individual user could sign it with a hobbiest credential. Alternatively, register a bunch of throw away emails and setup a site that signs the app with a different certificate every few downloads.
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