Frozen embryos are “children,” according to Alabama’s Supreme Court
- Thread starter JournalBot
- Start date
My company offered to relocate me and my wife from the UK to America back in Obama's first term. Ultimately it fell through at the very last minute (so last minute, my wife had already left her own job... eeek!) and I still look back on that as a real "sliding doors" moment for us.
I know that this could probably come across as piling on and I would imagine from the consistently excellent comments sections that most of the American readers of this site probably share my perspectives on a lot of stuff but, man, watching America's trajectory over the last 15 years or so as an interested observer who is thinking "I could have been raising my family there..." has been pretty wild.
I'm not sure if I just wasn't paying attention before, but it really seems like the country took a turn!
P.S. For fairness I should note that my own country has also been doing its level best to undershoot my aspirations for it since at least June 23rd, 2016 (the Brexit vote)
I know that this could probably come across as piling on and I would imagine from the consistently excellent comments sections that most of the American readers of this site probably share my perspectives on a lot of stuff but, man, watching America's trajectory over the last 15 years or so as an interested observer who is thinking "I could have been raising my family there..." has been pretty wild.
I'm not sure if I just wasn't paying attention before, but it really seems like the country took a turn!
P.S. For fairness I should note that my own country has also been doing its level best to undershoot my aspirations for it since at least June 23rd, 2016 (the Brexit vote)
Upvote
226
(232
/
-6)
This is what happens when you let the states decide. Republicans knew this and knew it was the best way to erode these protections to an absurd level.
Can we vote them all out already?
Can we vote them all out already?
Upvote
126
(126
/
0)
You say that as if there isn't a difference between the Taliban and these Christian zealots (aside from the religion in question, of course).
Upvote
94
(97
/
-3)
Upvote
41
(42
/
-1)
Can they collect social security in 65 years? Do I need to pay child support for the frozen ones?
Upvote
98
(98
/
0)
Welcome to the middle ages, everyone! Coming soon to a state near you!
Alabama: the land Time (and progress) forgot!
Alabama: the land Time (and progress) forgot!
Upvote
66
(68
/
-2)
IncorrigibleTroll
Ars Tribunus Angusticlavius
There was some news site (Slate, maybe?) that used to run an occasional feature called "If it happened over there", where they would write up a domestic news story using the sort of language that is typically reserved for foreign correspondence. It was reliably hilarious, but the story that mentioned "radical cleric Mike Huckabee" was an absolute chef's kiss.
Upvote
153
(153
/
0)
Any medical business needs to run from Alabama. Don’t walk. Run.
Women should be right be there as well. You’re just a vessel. And you don’t get to make your own decisions. Only theocratic old white men can make those decisions for you.
Women should be right be there as well. You’re just a vessel. And you don’t get to make your own decisions. Only theocratic old white men can make those decisions for you.
Upvote
122
(123
/
-1)
IncorrigibleTroll
Ars Tribunus Angusticlavius
We really need to stop making this comparison. The last thing we need is for all of these ridiculous theocrats to realize that they're basically all on the same page.
Upvote
43
(47
/
-4)
So who's responsible if the power goes out long enough for the freezers to go offline? Is menstruation illegal, too? Male masturbation? What about the other 99,999,999 sperm that don't make it to the finish line even in successful conception?
Upvote
142
(142
/
0)
So if they are children, can you keep them frozen? Because they would eventually perish if you don't implant them.
So does that mean you have to find a place to implant them?
So does that mean you have to find a place to implant them?
Upvote
61
(61
/
0)
This feels like a pretty easy thing to understand.
Frozen embryos declared "children" and IVF could be shut down as a result.
Why?!?
Alabama.
<nods head in understanding>
I really would like to hear from the people who sued. Yeah, they definitely do deserve some sort of compensation for their loss, as that process isn't cheap. But using THIS argument, which is now highly likely to shut down that method of conception in your state? THIS is the resolution you were hoping for? Congrats on ruining it for EVERYONE ELSE in your state.
Frozen embryos declared "children" and IVF could be shut down as a result.
Why?!?
Alabama.
<nods head in understanding>
I really would like to hear from the people who sued. Yeah, they definitely do deserve some sort of compensation for their loss, as that process isn't cheap. But using THIS argument, which is now highly likely to shut down that method of conception in your state? THIS is the resolution you were hoping for? Congrats on ruining it for EVERYONE ELSE in your state.
Upvote
118
(119
/
-1)
IncorrigibleTroll
Ars Tribunus Angusticlavius
More importantly, does this mean one can legally freeze Legacy Children? (Children 1.0? Children, Original Recipe? You know, actual kids, not blastocysts or embryos.)
Upvote
67
(67
/
0)
Upvote
135
(137
/
-2)
No its 100% the failure of separation of Church and State. There is absolutely zero reason why this decision should have had any religious overtones or comments in it whatsoever. It should have been made only under known scientific data regarding the status of those clumps of cells.
Upvote
139
(140
/
-1)
Isn't there supposed to be a freedom of religion and, therefore, a freedom from religion in the US, protected by the US Constitution?
Who is this judge who imposes his religious views on others? What would the Supreme Court of the US say about that (I believe that, sadly, I know the anwser to that question)?
PS: also, doesn't the US Constitution, like the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, only protect persons who are actually born?
Last edited:
Upvote
110
(110
/
0)
Upvote
141
(141
/
0)
To be fair it was certainly the lawyers that came up with that argument.
Upvote
30
(30
/
0)
Not really related to this article's topic, but I love this style of reporting and think we should all be reading such versions regularly as a reality check against our own biases. My (least?) favorite version of this was on the topic of the George Floyd protests.
Upvote
49
(49
/
0)
Wow! I could have understood it if someone had used this as the basis for an argument that there’s a difference between, e.g. a mother deciding to abort her own embryo vs. another party destroying or failing to protect someone’s embryo that was intended for implantation.
However, instead the judge went for the theocratic option.
However, instead the judge went for the theocratic option.
Upvote
29
(30
/
-1)
There really is no difference between this and islamic sharia law. I'm sure the irony is lost on the lawmakers though and its supporters.
Upvote
100
(103
/
-3)
Upvote
76
(79
/
-3)
Potentially they could drop them off at a fire station or something similar to fall under the safe haven laws?
Upvote
70
(70
/
0)
If I could remember my life as an embryo, then I'd probably agree with the State of Alabama. Or go a little further back, winning the gold-medal at swimming up the fallopian tube. But I cannot remember winning any swimming races, or being an embryo.
Upvote
47
(48
/
-1)
Nah. I'm through not calling reprehensible things reprehensible just because someone believes in an Adult Invisible Friend.
Upvote
50
(57
/
-7)
Of course they can. Give birth to every possible viable embro that passes through you or is created via any means or you're a murderer. /s
Upvote
36
(36
/
0)
Can a judge be disbarred (disrobed?) for being so nakedly unconstitutional?
Upvote
104
(104
/
0)
Yeah, but the plaintiffs needed to sign off on that strategy. And they certainly would have heard the defense argue that this could shut down IVF in the state if they won. They also needed to be on board with an appeal once the original court rejected their argument.
Those people were 100% complicit in this ruling.
Upvote
94
(95
/
-1)
It's assumed by these folks that if the state of Alabama tries someone and they are convicted, then it's not a "wrongful" death - note that his quote explicitly hangs on a distinction that not all deaths are wrongful.
Upvote
40
(40
/
0)
Upvote
59
(59
/
0)