Framework Laptop 13 Pro is the first major revision to the original Framework Laptop

Laptop includes Core Ultra Series 3 CPUs, a bigger battery, and a touchscreen.

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[deus01]

These are some nice improvements. I've been a huge fan of my framework laptop that I got in 2022 and upgraded the board on last year.

The biggest pain point has been battery life, but if they really managed to fix this (especially in Linux) it would be a huge win. The keyboard is really amazing to type on for a laptop.

 

[MJMullinII]

I really like the idea of LPCAMM2, speaking to having integrated-memory like speeds while still being upgradable, etc. I hope they catch on and don't become one of "neat but lost" advances

 

[kvuj]

My god, that's what I call improvements! Fantastic update with PTL, LPCAMM2 and brighter screen.

The only two things that would make it perfect would be :

1. True commitment to BIOS updates. While they have improved, they still have a looong way to go. Remember when logo fail took like 2 years before the CVE was fixed to customers? It will take time for me to trust them.
2. Better chassis rigidity and build quality. While I've never had one in my hands, I've seen 5+ reviews and chassis/screen flex seems to be not that impressive compared to the competition (doubly more so compared to Apple). It seems on their websites that the new CNC shell is much sturdier! If so I will have to order one since it checks all the boxes!

Other than that, it's hard to fault.

 

[Eli the Bearded]

Not happy with political choices the Framework team has made, but I bought a Framework 12 before they did that. That device has a touch screen and it is compatible with my Microsoft Surface stylus. I expect this new one will also have that compatibility.

 

[Glade9266]

Not happy with political choices the Framework team has made, but I bought a Framework 12 before they did that. That device has a touch screen and it is compatible with my Microsoft Surface stylus. I expect this new one will also have that compatibility.

To my knowledge, only the Framework 12 has stylus support (and the hinge to make it useful)

Edit - to quote the article:

And it’s the first touchscreen display available for the Laptop 13, though Framework’s press release doesn’t mention any kind of stylus or pen compatibility.

 

[Glade9266]

Windows is $100? Lol what?

It is the same cost from Framework as buying it directly from Microsoft. I personally like that the Windows license cost is both 1) explicitly stated, and 2) optional!

If you don't want to use Windows, you don't have to pay for it, unlike other OEMs where it is just baked into the cost. Also, if you have access to bulk / discounted licensing, you can just get the machines without a license, and use your own!

 

[Tactical Finesse]

I really like the idea of LPCAMM2, speaking to having integrated-memory like speeds while still being upgradable, etc. I hope they catch on and don't become one of "neat but lost" advances

There are pros and cons.

Pro, you can get tighter timings more easily.

Con, while you can upgrade--you're going to have to toss your entire old CAMM module and entirely replace it. E.g. you have 16GB of RAM, you can no longer keep a DIMM and just partially-upgrade to 32GB or 24GB. Which is more ewaste. Because CAMM is a dual channel solution, so to have two CAMM pads you're need a sever-class quad-channel setup.

It is the same cost from Framework as buying it directly from Microsoft. I personally like that the Windows license cost is both 1) explicitly stated, and 2) optional!

If you don't want to use Windows, you don't have to pay for it, unlike other OEMs where it is just baked into the cost. Also, if you have access to bulk / discounted licensing, you can just get the machines without a license, and use your own!

Also, windows never touches the metal. Framework also doesn't require you to have the dumb copilot key!

 

[bushrat011899]

To my knowledge, only the Framework 12 has stylus support (and the hinge to make it useful)

I really hope that isn't the case. I'd definitely buy the new screen just for that alone.

 

[Got Nate?]

There are pros and cons.

Pro, you can get tighter timings more easily.

Con, while you can upgrade--you're going to have to toss your entire old CAMM module and entirely replace it. E.g. you have 16GB of RAM, you can no longer keep a DIMM and just partially-upgrade to 32GB or 24GB. Which is more ewaste. Because CAMM is a dual channel solution, so to have two CAMM pads you're need a sever-class quad-channel setup.

I'm pretty sure the last time I employed this memory upgrade strategy was during the Bush administration. It's always been complete kits ever since. Modern memory is incredibly sensitive to matched sets if you want to squeeze every last ounce of performance out of it.

 

[Glade9266]

I really hope that isn't the case. I'd definitely buy the new screen just for that alone.

Interesting! If you are comfortable sharing, what use case do you have for a stylus on a 180 degree hinged screen? (Compared to the Framework 12's 360 degree hinge)

I can see how you could lay the whole machine down flat to use the stylus, but I don't know when that would be super useful.

 

[Tactical Finesse]

I'm pretty sure the last time I employed this memory upgrade strategy was during the Bush administration. It's always been complete kits ever since. Modern memory is incredibly sensitive to matched sets if you want to squeeze every last ounce of performance out of it.

I did it in a laptop during the GR. I've done it with desktops too more recently.

Even "matched" sticks sometimes don't behave.

 

[zilexa0]

There are pros and cons.

Pro, you can get tighter timings more easily.

Con, while you can upgrade--you're going to have to toss your entire old CAMM module and entirely replace it. E.g. you have 16GB of RAM, you can no longer keep a DIMM and just partially-upgrade to 32GB or 24GB. Which is more ewaste. Because CAMM is a dual channel solution, so to have two CAMM pads you're need a sever-class quad-channel setup.


Also, windows never touches the metal. Framework also doesn't require you to have the dumb copilot key!

Laptops either have RAM soldered or only 1 slot available anyways. So this is still better then any other laptop. And the only way forward when building a modular laptop since Intel and AMD now require either soldered or LPCAMM2. Soldered being the cheapest option for manufacturers.

 

[freeskier93]

The main boards maintaining backwards/forwards compatibility is a huge win. Performance of my 13" is more than adequate for my usage, and I could care less about the new touchscreen, but the chassis, touch pad, and battery upgrade is very nice looking. Can't wait to upgrade just that.

 

[SteveBigandTall]

The money they must save on industrial strength glue and using a different type and size of scree for every connection must be huge (looking at you Apple)

Alas they support activities I do not, so they'll not see a dime of my money.

 

[freeskier93]

Laptops either have RAM soldered or only 1 slot available anyways. So this is still better then any other laptop. And the only way forward when building a modular laptop since Intel and AMD now require either soldered or LPCAMM2. Soldered being the cheapest option for manufacturers.

The current (well, now old) FW13 has two slots.

 

[Juventas]

Does Framework provide firmware security updates for longer than the de facto 5 years after end of sale?

 

[ERIFNOMI]

There are pros and cons.

Pro, you can get tighter timings more easily.

Con, while you can upgrade--you're going to have to toss your entire old CAMM module and entirely replace it. E.g. you have 16GB of RAM, you can no longer keep a DIMM and just partially-upgrade to 32GB or 24GB. Which is more ewaste. Because CAMM is a dual channel solution, so to have two CAMM pads you're need a sever-class quad-channel setup.


Also, windows never touches the metal. Framework also doesn't require you to have the dumb copilot key!

That's a pretty minor con. I have never had a laptop with only one of the two memory channels populated, so a memory upgrade has meant ditching all the old RAM for new sticks anyway. I guess you could go with just replacing one stick and going mismatched, but if I need more memory I'm not half assing it. At least back when memory didn't cost an arm and a dick.

 

[jhoff80]

The only two things that would make it perfect would be :

1. True commitment to BIOS updates. While they have improved, they still have a looong way to go. Remember when logo fail took like 2 years before the CVE was fixed to customers? It will take time for me to trust them.

They also have a bad habit of pushing BIOS updates out to release even while their external beta releases have reported issues. I take this as they are too small a customer to have their third-party contractor prioritize them.

Their current 7040 BIOS for example is having a lot of issues for people who use external docks even though Framework claims it's stable: https://community.frame.work/t/framework-laptop-13-ryzen-7040-bios-3-18-release-stable/79967/

Whatever the reason, it's enough of a reason for me to not be interested in buying any more hardware from them. Which is a shame because the chassis improvements look nice.

 

[ERIFNOMI]

Laptops either have RAM soldered or only 1 slot available anyways. So this is still better then any other laptop. And the only way forward when building a modular laptop since Intel and AMD now require either soldered or LPCAMM2. Soldered being the cheapest option for manufacturers.

My last Dell XPS from work had two DIMMs. I upgraded both so I could run a couple of VMs without the poor thing falling on its face. It sure put the fan to work though.

 

[Tactical Finesse]

They also have a bad habit of pushing BIOS updates out to release even while their external beta releases have reported issues. I take this as they are too small a customer to have their third-party contractor prioritize them.

Their current 7040 BIOS for example is having a lot of issues for people who use external docks even though Framework claims it's stable: https://community.frame.work/t/framework-laptop-13-ryzen-7040-bios-3-18-release-stable/79967/

Whatever the reason, it's enough of a reason for me to not be interested in buying any more hardware from them. Which is a shame because the chassis improvements look nice.

My framework Desktop is getting this too:

3.03 was okay
3,04 final shipped with an issue where boot-times with GRUB would take 2+ minutes. When I upgraded I thought I bricked my computer during flashing as I didn't even get a signal or bootsplash on my monitor for 3 minutes.

Months later (which 3.04 happened around the XMas holiday...so I get it processes get interrupted by holidays)...

3.05 beta comes out...with a known bug with DP-alt-mode on USB-C?

I know lots of SIs and OEMs have issues with AMD and AGESA in their BIOS...but come on. IDK if it is more an AMD thing or a Framework thing or both.

 

[clb2c4e]

Not happy with political choices the Framework team has made, but I bought a Framework 12 before they did that. That device has a touch screen and it is compatible with my Microsoft Surface stylus. I expect this new one will also have that compatibility.

Yikes, not a fan of their it's a big tent approach answer. A bit tone deaf considering what some of the people in the tent are doing now, not just saying anymore.

 

[MekkelRichards]

The wireless keyboard/trackpad is a huge deal. Everyone who uses an HTPC has been begging Logitech for over a decade to update the K400 keyboard to something better.

 

[arlinn]

Not happy with political choices the Framework team has made, but I bought a Framework 12 before they did that. That device has a touch screen and it is compatible with my Microsoft Surface stylus. I expect this new one will also have that compatibility.

Thanks for sharing this. I’ve followed the stories for a few years and have really enjoyed what the company was putting out.

After reading that very long thread, I’m not interested in the company any longer. Despite users posting evidence of hateful conduct, Framework has continued to affirm their “big tent” policy that’s turned them into a proverbial “nazi bar”. It’s an unfortunate shame.

 

[Mustachioed Copy Cat]

Early adopter here. To date I’ve had to replace the USB-C charging cable, the GaN charger itself, and I lost a fully functional keyboard and fan after something heavy dropped on the keyboard. $180 bucks to keep a laptop in tip top shape over however many years pretty much makes up for the wonky BIOS shit and the odd aspect ratio.

Hearing about the political stuff was unfortunate. I would buy second party if I could, and the charger was generic because I wanted to limit direct support until they unfucked that particular pig.

 

[SirThoreth]

Not happy with political choices the Framework team has made, but I bought a Framework 12 before they did that. That device has a touch screen and it is compatible with my Microsoft Surface stylus. I expect this new one will also have that compatibility.

Well, crap. Framework had been on my list of alternatives to ThinkPads for when I eventually replace my T495, but I think I can say that’s out of the question now.

 

[MJMullinII]

I'm pretty sure the last time I employed this memory upgrade strategy was during the Bush administration. It's always been complete kits ever since. Modern memory is incredibly sensitive to matched sets if you want to squeeze every last ounce of performance out of it.

And it's still dicey to get even pairs of matched sets to play nice together. When I built my current AM5 build, I went with 32GB of RAM -- two matched 16GB sticks. But very quickly discovered I needed 64GB minimum (I'm pretty much sitting with 20-30GB of RAM in use all the time, etc.)

So I bought another identical set (my board is dual-channel, but has 4x sockets...two dual-channel setups) and couldn't get the same 6000 level overclock with 4x as I could with the previous 2x. Using the autotune feature, my current system is currently staying happy at around 5800 in regard to memory bandwidth.

 

[phoenix_rizzen]

And it's still dicey to get even pairs of matched sets to play nice together. When I built my current AM5 build, I went with 32GB of RAM -- two matched 16GB sticks. But very quickly discovered I needed 64GB minimum (I'm pretty much sitting with 20-30GB of RAM in use all the time, etc.)

So I bought another identical set (my board is dual-channel, but has 4x sockets...two dual-channel setups) and couldn't get the same 6000 level overclock with 4x as I could with the previous 2x. Using the autotune feature, my current system is currently staying happy at around 5800 in regard to memory bandwidth.

That's normal.

The motherboard supports dual-channel RAM (A and B), with two DIMMs per channel (A1+A2, B1+B2). To get the best performance, you need to run with just 1 DIMM per channel (A1 + B1). To get the most memory in the system, you need to run with 2 DIMMs per channel (A1 + A2 + B1 + B2); however, that requires lowering the speed of the RAM.

You can either have a fast 2-lane divided highway (fast transfers) or a slower 4-lane city street (bulk transfers). You can't have both.

 

[macr0t0r]

You had me at "touchscreen." Thank you!

 

[Boskone]

I think I can forgive the hardware compatability changes in return for more battery.

It's not the usual "New year, new everything" laptops usually get.

 

[Midnitte]

Intel mandates the use of faster LPDDR5X. You can have DIMMs, but only with lower-performing GPUs that would probably have been slower than the Intel and AMD hardware Framework was already shipping. But Framework also clearly didn’t want to give up modular RAM, something it did to make the Framework Desktop work (AMD similarly requires LPDDR5X for that desktop’s Radeon RX 8050S and 8060S).

I wonder if they would be able to refresh the Desktop to use LPCAMM2.

Given that they make an HTPC keyboard now, such a change would make the Desktop an even more compelling "Steam Machine"...

 

[cfenton]

The prices for the DIY systems seem bad. $1200 for the Ultra 5 325, or $1600 for the Ultra X7 358H. The M5 Mackbook Pro is only $1600 for the whole system with RAM and storage. I'm curious what the $1500 325 and $1800 358H will include for RAM and storage. Given the absurd prices for those components at the moment, the pre-built options could be a decent deal, at least compared to the DIY options.

 

[Matthew J.]

I really hope they survive the Rampocalypse. I'm not aware of anyone else today who's doing as many innovative things as Framework, and their ecosystem seems to be just taking off.

 

[sliver7]

I've already got the Ultra 5 125H mainboard, so I don't think the Ultra 3-series by itself will be enough of an upgrade to justify (especially since I'd also need new RAM).

However, it may be worthwhile to look at swapping to the stronger chassis and the larger battery. Don't really care about the touchscreen (I've got one on my Surface Laptop 7, and I barely "touch" it).

Also: I don't know why I'm irrationally excited about keyboard color options, but for some reason I kinda want to match the keyboard to the lavender bezel and cards I already have.

 

[pseudobscura]

I'm pretty sure the last time I employed this memory upgrade strategy was during the Bush administration. It's always been complete kits ever since. Modern memory is incredibly sensitive to matched sets if you want to squeeze every last ounce of performance out of it.

Well, nice to be you, I guess??

For those of us who aren't entirely made out of money, buy one stick now, one stick later is a pretty common strategy. It's not like you can't buy the same stick later, you know. You just sacrifice some (very little for most real purposes) performance now, for much cheaper upgradability later.

 

[ERIFNOMI]

Well, nice to be you, I guess??

For those of us who aren't entirely made out of money, buy one stick now, one stick later is a pretty common strategy. It's not like you can't buy the same stick later, you know. You just sacrifice some (very little for most real purposes) performance now, for much cheaper upgradability later.

The number of people who upgrade their laptops at all is probably roughly fuck all. The fraction that will only half upgrade their RAM is, well, less than fuck all.

RAM prices have fluctuated over the years but until recently, it was damn cheap. You didn't have to be Mr Moneybags to buy a proper kit of RAM. Now I'd give...well I'd give a lot for a return to prices from a year ago.

 

[Thorburn]

Laptops either have RAM soldered or only 1 slot available anyways. So this is still better then any other laptop. And the only way forward when building a modular laptop since Intel and AMD now require either soldered or LPCAMM2. Soldered being the cheapest option for manufacturers.

LPDDR5x is mandatory on the Core Ultra X7 and X9, so it's either memory-down or LPCAMM2. They didn't have an option of a SO-DIMM design and it would be bad for both battery life and performance anyway.

 

[Alt-X]

Their prices are crazy expensive.

 

[zephxiii]

Laptops either have RAM soldered or only 1 slot available anyways. So this is still better then any other laptop. And the only way forward when building a modular laptop since Intel and AMD now require either soldered or LPCAMM2. Soldered being the cheapest option for manufacturers.

ThinkPad T14 G5/G6 AMD rock two ram slots as does my recent Legion 5 AMD.