Fiat Chrysler merges with PSA Group, owner of Peugeot and Citroën

The combined companies say they can save $4 billion a year with no plant closures.

Read the whole story

 

[rumplestiltskin]

Does this mean I'll be able to buy one of these?
https://www.classicdriver.com/sites/def ... k=C4Bx2QGZ

Oh, pretty please...

 

[Snark218]

it's probably a little too soon to know what this will mean in terms of the cars we might be able to buy

The signs are pretty clear that we're going to lose Chrysler and Fiat. Their sales have flatlined and they're gradually losing cars from their lineup, especially the sedans and economy cars. The only cars Dodge has going for it are the Challenger and Charger, which could just be sold under SRT, so I wouldn't be surprised if Dodge disappears as well.

If you've been paying attention then you'd notice that everything is getting consolidated under RAM and Jeep. SUV and truck sales are the bread and butter of today's car buying market, that's why major brands keep killing their small cars.

All this is pie in the sky, there are no unions or regulatory agencies, fantasy football talk. But.

Kill Chrysler, kill Citroen's main line and just sell DS models as Citroens. Kill Maserati or sell it.

Fiat becomes just a Opel rebadge like Vauxhall, aimed at eastern Europe, Latin America, and southwestern Europe. Or, let's be honest, nobody cares about it really, it could just die and those lines could be used to crank out Opels and Peugeots.

Dodge and Ram merge back together as Dodge. Nobody knows or gives a damn that Ram is technically a different brand. Dodge could sell Ram trucks, the Charger, the Challenger, the Pacifica, and maybe a few carlike Opel crossovers (Grandland X?) and cars.

Instead of trying to resuscitate Alfa as a BMW alternative, why not get real ballsy and either sell/kill it or make it an all-electrified sport brand?

Jeep keeps on Jeeping. But there needs to be a dedicated Jeep EV or two, preferably one of which is a skateboard platform Wrangler.

it's probably a little too soon to know what this will mean in terms of the cars we might be able to buy

The signs are pretty clear that we're going to lose Chrysler and Fiat. ...

If you've been paying attention then you'd notice that everything is getting consolidated under RAM and Jeep. SUV and truck sales are the bread and butter of today's car buying market, that's why major brands keep killing their small cars.

That's an American viewpoint, whilst the merged company is at least as much, if not more so, euro-centric. Trucks in particular are a US-market thing, with little interest elsewhere

The Fiat brand will remain internationally, if only - indeed probably only - for the 500.

The Chrysler brand on the other hand, seems to be dying pretty much everywhere, except for people carriers/MPVs/minivans. They might survive as a one or two model only specialist brand, like Fiat with the 500.

Nobody cares about the 500. Fiat just needs to get the old Yeller treatment or sell rebadged Opels, but the brand is dead weight.

 

[Corporate_Goon]

Next you'll be telling me that Exxon, Verizon, and Chipotle have merged to form Veroxxotle, one of America's eight corporations.

 

[khoadley]

They launched more BEVs and PHEVs models than the electric 208:

The ones with pictures will become available for delivery between now and 2020.

But no PHEV Rifter (or Berlingo if you're looking at the Citroen equivalent). That's a market gap right now - no one has either a BEV or PHEV in that market segment.

 

[TheOldChevy]

They've conveniently combined every crappy auto brand into a single mega-corp. Well done!

I don't know how you define "crap" for auto brands. And whatever the definition is, I would be surprised that this merger fits all. Different car brands fit different markets.

The main reason for this merger is the strong (financial) push for lower emission in Europe and has nothing to do with the real or perceived product quality (BTW sites like https://www.reliabilityindex.com do not put the potential new group below average).

 

[Golgo1]

Tesla will sell cars...because currently, they are the best EV's on the market...period
When something better comes along, people will buy those

Isn't that exactly what the article was suggesting? (Thats how I read it)
Tesla is doing well-enough because they are the best currently.
With this merger, the mega-corp may now have the tech, factories, and patents to put out a viable competitor.
Putting Tesla on the bad end of this merger.

Whether that come true, who knows, but that's the meaning I took from the article, and find the idea quite plausible.

 

[khoadley]

The Fiat brand will remain internationally, if only - indeed probably only - for the 500.

Nobody cares about the 500. Fiat just needs to get the old Yeller treatment or sell rebadged Opels, but the brand is dead weight.

Well they've sold over 2 million 500s, and it's Europe's best selling city car, so it would appear that some people care about the 500 ...

 

[Snark218]

They've conveniently combined every crappy auto brand into a single mega-corp. Well done!

I don't know how you define "crap" for auto brands. And whatever the definition is, I would be surprised that this merger fits all. Different car brands fit different markets.

The main reason for this merger is the strong (financial) push for lower emission in Europe and has nothing to do with the real or perceived product quality (BTW sites like https://www.reliabilityindex.com do not put the potential new group below average).

Peugeot and Citroen aren't crap, but I don't think this gets either company anything but cost savings. Nobody is strong in China and there's tons of overlap.

FCA merging with Hyundai or Nissan-Renault made more pure business sense, but on a deeper level the problem is there's too many national governments and unions demanding the preservation of too many jobs and too many factories to crank out too many models under too many brands for too few buyers. At some point, someone needs to get some balls and kill some brands. At least two or three major car companies have no real reason to exist. Some of them don't need to be standalone businesses, some of them are just as useful as tits on a boar hog.

 

[Azethoth666]

it's probably a little too soon to know what this will mean in terms of the cars we might be able to buy

The signs are pretty clear that we're going to lose Chrysler and Fiat. Their sales have flatlined and they're gradually losing cars from their lineup, especially the sedans and economy cars. The only cars Dodge has going for it are the Challenger and Charger, which could just be sold under SRT, so I wouldn't be surprised if Dodge disappears as well.

If you've been paying attention then you'd notice that everything is getting consolidated under RAM and Jeep. SUV and truck sales are the bread and butter of today's car buying market, that's why major brands keep killing their small cars.

The electric era is going to change car production. Million mile cars means cars that last 4 or 5 times longer in the used market. We need less production going forward. If Uber and autopilot becomes a thing it may be way less.

There will be many more consolidations like this.

 

[Dilbert]

it's probably a little too soon to know what this will mean in terms of the cars we might be able to buy

The signs are pretty clear that we're going to lose Chrysler and Fiat. ...

If you've been paying attention then you'd notice that everything is getting consolidated under RAM and Jeep. SUV and truck sales are the bread and butter of today's car buying market, that's why major brands keep killing their small cars.

That's an American viewpoint, whilst the merged company is at least as much, if not more so, euro-centric. Trucks in particular are a US-market thing, with little interest elsewhere

The Fiat brand will remain internationally, if only - indeed probably only - for the 500.

The Chrysler brand on the other hand, seems to be dying pretty much everywhere, except for people carriers/MPVs/minivans. They might survive as a one or two model only specialist brand, like Fiat with the 500.

The only thing worth anything in the Chrysler line-up is the Jeep and the big RAM trucks. Fleet sales, and people who want a Jeep but have nowhere else to go, or want a RAM because they'd rather die before buying a Ford or Chevy truck, is literally what's keeping Chrysler alive.

 

[punctualDonkey]

I'd like to think modern American car buyers will take to quirky French crossovers with more enthusiasm than that which greeted a resurgent Alfa Romeo.

Depends on whether they manage to build a car that isn't shit. Alfa Romeo is still struggling with that one.

I own two modern Alfas, a 2016 4C and a 2018 Giulia Quadrifoglio. No issues with either, they’ve been completely reliable. The interiors aren’t up to snuff vs the Germans, but the Alfas are in my opinion more beautiful, and way more fun to drive than the Germans. I drove a Porsche 911 Turbo for a while and I’d take either Alfa any day. Not for everyone sure, but if the driving experience is your thing, Alfas are remarkable.

(Before I get flamed: Porsches are amazing cars, the engineering is top notch, and I understand the appeal. There is good reason for their success. For me, though, the driving feels too sterile, too clinical)

 

[tucu]

They launched more BEVs and PHEVs models than the electric 208:

The ones with pictures will become available for delivery between now and 2020.

But no PHEV Rifter (or Berlingo if you're looking at the Citroen equivalent). That's a market gap right now - no one has either a BEV or PHEV in that market segment.

They sell electric versions of the Partner and Berlingo. A new generation is coming in 2021. Next year they will start sell8ng BEV versions of their medium vans (Jumpy/Vivaro/Expert)

 

[ruan1d10t]

The latest Buick Regal TourX is a very nice looking wagon, but I just can't get past the Buick badging.

Now if I could buy the same thing as Opel Insignia here in the USA, I'd be in that Fiat Chrysler PSA dealership tomorrow.

 

[Snark218]

it's probably a little too soon to know what this will mean in terms of the cars we might be able to buy

The signs are pretty clear that we're going to lose Chrysler and Fiat. ...

If you've been paying attention then you'd notice that everything is getting consolidated under RAM and Jeep. SUV and truck sales are the bread and butter of today's car buying market, that's why major brands keep killing their small cars.

That's an American viewpoint, whilst the merged company is at least as much, if not more so, euro-centric. Trucks in particular are a US-market thing, with little interest elsewhere

The Fiat brand will remain internationally, if only - indeed probably only - for the 500.

The Chrysler brand on the other hand, seems to be dying pretty much everywhere, except for people carriers/MPVs/minivans. They might survive as a one or two model only specialist brand, like Fiat with the 500.

The only thing worth anything in the Chrysler line-up is the Jeep and the big RAM trucks. Fleet sales, and people who want a Jeep but have nowhere else to go, or want a RAM because they'd rather die before buying a Ford or Chevy truck, is literally what's keeping Chrysler alive.

Disagree strongly about Ram. The Ram doesn't sell on loyalty alone; it's objectively the best of the Big 3 pickups, and it's been winning tons of convert buyers from Chevrolet in particular. And Jeep doesn't sell only on fleet sales, either, it has great margins and sells extremely well. Those are two incredibly profitable brands that bring something to the table.

What really doesn't need to exist is....well, the rest of the FCA brands, really. Dodge makes antiquated muscle cars for Boomers, Chrysler barely makes anything, Fiat sells the 500 and a dumpy crossover in 500 cosplay, Alfa is barely viable but has been invested in so much they can't just kill it.

 

[fizzlefist]

If Peugeot starts in the US with sales offers like the Fiat 500 had to start, I might consider it.

 

[Snark218]

The latest Buick Regal TourX is a very nice looking wagon, but I just can't get past the Buick badging.

Now if I could buy the same thing as Opel Insignia here in the USA, I'd be in that Fiat Chrysler PSA dealership tomorrow.

Buick is no longer connected to Opel/Vauxhall.

 

[afidel]

it's probably a little too soon to know what this will mean in terms of the cars we might be able to buy

The signs are pretty clear that we're going to lose Chrysler and Fiat. ...

If you've been paying attention then you'd notice that everything is getting consolidated under RAM and Jeep. SUV and truck sales are the bread and butter of today's car buying market, that's why major brands keep killing their small cars.

That's an American viewpoint, whilst the merged company is at least as much, if not more so, euro-centric. Trucks in particular are a US-market thing, with little interest elsewhere

The Fiat brand will remain internationally, if only - indeed probably only - for the 500.

The Chrysler brand on the other hand, seems to be dying pretty much everywhere, except for people carriers/MPVs/minivans. They might survive as a one or two model only specialist brand, like Fiat with the 500.

The only thing worth anything in the Chrysler line-up is the Jeep and the big RAM trucks. Fleet sales, and people who want a Jeep but have nowhere else to go, or want a RAM because they'd rather die before buying a Ford or Chevy truck, is literally what's keeping Chrysler alive.

The Pacifica is genuinely good and the Grand Caravan is by far the best combination of price and reliability in the segment (not as good as the Pacifica but good enough and the only thing even close in price is the Kia minivan which is far worse).

 

[Nalyd]

it's probably a little too soon to know what this will mean in terms of the cars we might be able to buy

The signs are pretty clear that we're going to lose Chrysler and Fiat. Their sales have flatlined and they're gradually losing cars from their lineup, especially the sedans and economy cars. The only cars Dodge has going for it are the Challenger and Charger, which could just be sold under SRT, so I wouldn't be surprised if Dodge disappears as well.

If you've been paying attention then you'd notice that everything is getting consolidated under RAM and Jeep. SUV and truck sales are the bread and butter of today's car buying market, that's why major brands keep killing their small cars.

Where do the Voyager and Pacifica go in this doomsday scenario?

On a Voyage into the Pacific.

 

[IntellectualThug]

The latest Buick Regal TourX is a very nice looking wagon, but I just can't get past the Buick badging.

Now if I could buy the same thing as Opel Insignia here in the USA, I'd be in that Fiat Chrysler PSA dealership tomorrow.

At least their cars have real names. Lincoln is slowly fixing that gigantic wannabe Germanic naming scheme fuckup, and Cadillac still has its head firmly lodged up Johan de Nysschen's ass.

 

[Snark218]

The latest Buick Regal TourX is a very nice looking wagon, but I just can't get past the Buick badging.

Now if I could buy the same thing as Opel Insignia here in the USA, I'd be in that Fiat Chrysler PSA dealership tomorrow.

At least their cars have real names. Lincoln is slowly fixing that gigantic wannabe Germanic naming scheme fuckup, and Cadillac still has its head firmly lodged up Johan de Nysschen's ass.

Someday I wanna learn how to fail upward like Johan, because I'd never have to work again.

 

[timber]

When PSA took Opel from GM I really thought that it wasn't the greatest idea but they really flipped that easily.

So this time I will be giving them the benefit of the doubt as it is obvious from the details that PSA will be running the show.

 

[Snark218]

If Peugeot starts in the US with sales offers like the Fiat 500 had to start, I might consider it.

I think they'd be insane to consider bringing any of the PSA brands to the US. Platforms and engines, absolutely, but establishing a French brand in the US in the 2020s sounds like great way to light a few hundred million on fire.

 

[IntellectualThug]

The latest Buick Regal TourX is a very nice looking wagon, but I just can't get past the Buick badging.

Now if I could buy the same thing as Opel Insignia here in the USA, I'd be in that Fiat Chrysler PSA dealership tomorrow.

At least their cars have real names. Lincoln is slowly fixing that gigantic wannabe Germanic naming scheme fuckup, and Cadillac still has its head firmly lodged up Johan de Nysschen's ass.

Someday I wanna learn how to fail upward like Johan, because I'd never have to work again.

On the subject of luxury car names, Buick needs to bring back the damn Grand National. THEY HAVE THE TECHNOLOGY.

 

[Snark218]

Nobody:
Fiat Chrysler: We make desirable, but unreliable automobiles. Only one thing can save us, French engineering!

You joke, but FCA stock jumped 10% after this was announced. PSA isn't the buyer, they're the bought.

 

[Snark218]

The latest Buick Regal TourX is a very nice looking wagon, but I just can't get past the Buick badging.

Now if I could buy the same thing as Opel Insignia here in the USA, I'd be in that Fiat Chrysler PSA dealership tomorrow.

At least their cars have real names. Lincoln is slowly fixing that gigantic wannabe Germanic naming scheme fuckup, and Cadillac still has its head firmly lodged up Johan de Nysschen's ass.

Someday I wanna learn how to fail upward like Johan, because I'd never have to work again.

On the subject of luxury car names, Buick needs to bring back the damn Grand National. THEY HAVE THE TECHNOLOGY.

All it needs to be is a Camaro LT1 with nice seats and visibility superior to the average bunker.

 

[Snark218]

The Fiat brand will remain internationally, if only - indeed probably only - for the 500.

Nobody cares about the 500. Fiat just needs to get the old Yeller treatment or sell rebadged Opels, but the brand is dead weight.

Well they've sold over 2 million 500s, and it's Europe's best selling city car, so it would appear that some people care about the 500 ...

Fair enough. That's not incredible sales for the whole model cycle, but being the bestselling city car is something. But is that because people legit want a 500, or because Fiat moves 'em cheap? Honest question, I don't know.

 

[IntellectualThug]

The latest Buick Regal TourX is a very nice looking wagon, but I just can't get past the Buick badging.

Now if I could buy the same thing as Opel Insignia here in the USA, I'd be in that Fiat Chrysler PSA dealership tomorrow.

At least their cars have real names. Lincoln is slowly fixing that gigantic wannabe Germanic naming scheme fuckup, and Cadillac still has its head firmly lodged up Johan de Nysschen's ass.

Someday I wanna learn how to fail upward like Johan, because I'd never have to work again.

On the subject of luxury car names, Buick needs to bring back the damn Grand National. THEY HAVE THE TECHNOLOGY.

All it needs to be is a Camaro LT1 with nice seats and visibility superior to the average bunker.

It's gotta be a turbocharged V6, dood. Too bad it's a GM brand or they could use the roided out monster that powers the current Raptor.

 

[Snark218]

The latest Buick Regal TourX is a very nice looking wagon, but I just can't get past the Buick badging.

Now if I could buy the same thing as Opel Insignia here in the USA, I'd be in that Fiat Chrysler PSA dealership tomorrow.

At least their cars have real names. Lincoln is slowly fixing that gigantic wannabe Germanic naming scheme fuckup, and Cadillac still has its head firmly lodged up Johan de Nysschen's ass.

Someday I wanna learn how to fail upward like Johan, because I'd never have to work again.

On the subject of luxury car names, Buick needs to bring back the damn Grand National. THEY HAVE THE TECHNOLOGY.

All it needs to be is a Camaro LT1 with nice seats and visibility superior to the average bunker.

It's gotta be a turbocharged V6, dood. Too bad it's a GM brand or they could use the roided out monster that powers the current Raptor.

I mean, hope springs eternal - they do have a TT 3.0V6 for Cadillac. But GM is currently making product decisions in the most cost-cut, timid, conservative fashion available.

And hell, GM and Ford might have to merge at some point. They're both one good recession-punch away from being on the ropes as it is.

 

[barktrees]

It’s a known fact that mergers nearly always fail. They don’t save money, corporate cultures don’t mesh, shareholders don’t profit, customers get screwed. Free advice: stay away.

They pay out great bonuses to the CEOs managing them, and that is the primary motivation for most of them

Don't forget the lawyers and the investment banks.

 

[IntellectualThug]

I mean, hope springs eternal - they do have a TT 3.0V6 for Cadillac.

And hell, GM and Ford might have to merge at some point.

I would love to see a murdered out, Buick-badged Camaro sporting that engine and an 8-speed auto. Definitely couldn't afford one, but would absolutely gush over it at gas stations and Krogers.

 

[same.dan]

Peugeot/ Citroën/ Opel use only two engines (one gas, one diesel) with different power levels controlled by software.
Only one electric model, the e208, launched last month. No hybrids. Bigger engines come from BMW.

Cars produced mostly outside of France, but in EU.

Apparently the simplification of the models is the savoir-faire of Mr Astavez, the new CEO of the group.

So expect, at least in Europe, a sudden death of the Italian factories.

In China, Peugeut has a huge capacity to build cars because of the past years investments (close to a million cars per year) but no demand from the local market. Apparently the Chinese customers want "strong image" European cars (read German cars). So the Jeep brand will fit like a glove there.

The only Jeep product that they could even hope to manage selling would be the Renegade and I am pretty sure they're already doing that. The Wrangler and Cherokee are both only made in the States and are far too large and inefficient.

Agree 100%. Here in Europe the Renegade is built on a Fiat chassis, with engines ranging from 1 liter to 1.3 liters. People buy them in strodes and use them in cities. So much for the SUVs... In China they also love "American" brands.

 

[IntellectualThug]

Peugeot/ Citroën/ Opel use only two engines (one gas, one diesel) with different power levels controlled by software.
Only one electric model, the e208, launched last month. No hybrids. Bigger engines come from BMW.

Cars produced mostly outside of France, but in EU.

Apparently the simplification of the models is the savoir-faire of Mr Astavez, the new CEO of the group.

So expect, at least in Europe, a sudden death of the Italian factories.

In China, Peugeut has a huge capacity to build cars because of the past years investments (close to a million cars per year) but no demand from the local market. Apparently the Chinese customers want "strong image" European cars (read German cars). So the Jeep brand will fit like a glove there.

The only Jeep product that they could even hope to manage selling would be the Renegade and I am pretty sure they're already doing that. The Wrangler and Cherokee are both only made in the States and are far too large and inefficient.

Agree 100%. Here in Europe the Renegade is built on a Fiat chassis, with engines ranging from 1 liter to 1.3 liters. People buy them in strodes and use them in cities. So much for the SUVs... In China they also love "American" brands.

Ohhh yeah they do. The reason Buick got the axe instead of Pontiac was the Chinese market. They LOVE the Buick brand there for some reason.

I'm still a little salty that Pontiac got killed for Buick, although it does mean a resurrection of the Grand National is possible and I do adore that marque. It's up there with the Tercel 4WD for "old cars I'd love to find in a barn."

 

[timber]

Europeans do love the Wrangler and its classic US Army look.

Of course we do it the European We stick a diesel engine and a manual transmission on it

 

[Digger]

I read about the potential merger yesterday and thought it might be interesting to see Peugeots back in the USA, if only they'd improve their reliability.

But not knowing how they are today, I went a searching and the sites I ran across said they had very good reliability.

Colour me surprised.
Am I reading the wrong sites or are Europeans used to differing standards of "reliability" than the Americans are used to?

Anyone with a Peugeot wanna enlighten me?

 

[Snark218]

Peugeot/ Citroën/ Opel use only two engines (one gas, one diesel) with different power levels controlled by software.
Only one electric model, the e208, launched last month. No hybrids. Bigger engines come from BMW.

Cars produced mostly outside of France, but in EU.

Apparently the simplification of the models is the savoir-faire of Mr Astavez, the new CEO of the group.

So expect, at least in Europe, a sudden death of the Italian factories.

In China, Peugeut has a huge capacity to build cars because of the past years investments (close to a million cars per year) but no demand from the local market. Apparently the Chinese customers want "strong image" European cars (read German cars). So the Jeep brand will fit like a glove there.

The only Jeep product that they could even hope to manage selling would be the Renegade and I am pretty sure they're already doing that. The Wrangler and Cherokee are both only made in the States and are far too large and inefficient.

Agree 100%. Here in Europe the Renegade is built on a Fiat chassis, with engines ranging from 1 liter to 1.3 liters. People buy them in strodes and use them in cities. So much for the SUVs... In China they also love "American" brands.

Ohhh yeah they do. The reason Buick got the axe instead of Pontiac was the Chinese market. They LOVE the Buick brand there for some reason.

I'm still a little salty that Pontiac got killed for Buick, although it does mean a resurrection of the Grand National is possible and I do adore that marque. It's up there with the Tercel 4WD for "old cars I'd love to find in a barn."

Once they redo the Cherokee to be more of a global model, that'll do fine in China too. They sell a big Jeep crossover there we don't even get here, so I think China is down for the Cherokee and Compass.

 

[OrangeCream]

In the awful days of British Leyland someone suggested they merge with Honda so the combined group could be called Austin Rover Group Honda, or ARGH!.

Unfortunately with only one vowel among all the brand names, it's going to be hard to think of a suitable acronym for this merger. As an alternative I suggest Eurokludge S.P.A.

Chrylser, Ram, Alfa, Peugot (2 US, 2 EU)

 

[Snark218]

Anyone with a Peugeot wanna enlighten me?

Not a Pug owner, but from what I've gathered, they're no worse than most of the volume players in Europe - on a par with current-day Volkswagen, which is also "not excellent but fine" reliability-wise.

 

[IntellectualThug]

Peugeot/ Citroën/ Opel use only two engines (one gas, one diesel) with different power levels controlled by software.
Only one electric model, the e208, launched last month. No hybrids. Bigger engines come from BMW.

Cars produced mostly outside of France, but in EU.

Apparently the simplification of the models is the savoir-faire of Mr Astavez, the new CEO of the group.

So expect, at least in Europe, a sudden death of the Italian factories.

In China, Peugeut has a huge capacity to build cars because of the past years investments (close to a million cars per year) but no demand from the local market. Apparently the Chinese customers want "strong image" European cars (read German cars). So the Jeep brand will fit like a glove there.

The only Jeep product that they could even hope to manage selling would be the Renegade and I am pretty sure they're already doing that. The Wrangler and Cherokee are both only made in the States and are far too large and inefficient.

Agree 100%. Here in Europe the Renegade is built on a Fiat chassis, with engines ranging from 1 liter to 1.3 liters. People buy them in strodes and use them in cities. So much for the SUVs... In China they also love "American" brands.

Ohhh yeah they do. The reason Buick got the axe instead of Pontiac was the Chinese market. They LOVE the Buick brand there for some reason.

I'm still a little salty that Pontiac got killed for Buick, although it does mean a resurrection of the Grand National is possible and I do adore that marque. It's up there with the Tercel 4WD for "old cars I'd love to find in a barn."

Once they redo the Cherokee to be more of a global model, that'll do fine in China too. They sell a big Jeep crossover there we don't even get here, so I think China is down for the Cherokee and Compass.

I wouldn't count on that happening. The Cherokee can't get any more softroader, or people in America will stop buying it.

 

[OrangeCream]

Europeans do love the Wrangler and its classic US Army look.

Of course we do it the European We stick a diesel engine and a manual transmission on it

Isn't Europe essentially banning diesel engines in the next couple years?

 

[snowman<ca>]

This reminds me of a quote from an analysis of the acquisition of the company I had my first decent paying job. ‘Tying two dinosaurs together is not going to make them more competitive’