Last year, FDA advisors unanimously voted that oral phenylephrine is ineffective.
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FDA proposes ditching common decongestant for being completely useless
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RickRoyLeonPrisZhoraRacha
Ars Scholae Palatinae
Oui! In France, the local pharma person provided me with Cepacol-like lozenges, that also had Codine-3. Never get that back in the states. Especially over the counter (non-script). I mean, wear a scarf, have some hot tea, blow your nose and pop a cough lozenge! Oui indeed!
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RickRoyLeonPrisZhoraRacha
Ars Scholae Palatinae
RFKJR looks like he could be Luke Duke of Hazaard County! Put him in a General Lee minivan and all set to vape your vaccine protection on the Joe Rogan Show! Covid-27 is coming! /s
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For decades they've been selling a medication they knew was ineffective. They knew they were ripping off customers for decades. Where are the fines to reimburse consumers?
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The one on the right is a lawyer who collects animal skulls and got a bunch of kids killed in Samoa by promoting anti-vaxx bullshit. The one on the left has been a doctor for 30 years and did her residency at Mt Sinai.
Which one do you think is better at matters of health?
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uesc_marathon
Ars Scholae Palatinae
Worry not, pharmaceutical companies, this will get reversed in a couple months. Nobody will take away your god-given American right to shill snake oil in this country.
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So, the product is a scam. Are we going to refund people? Millions of suffering people suffered needlessly due to this scam. Are we going to compensate them? CHPA and everyone that makes this scam need to be demolished.
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uesc_marathon
Ars Scholae Palatinae
If you live in the US, you already know in your heart that corporate profits are vastly more important than human suffering.
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ColdWetDog
Ars Legatus Legionis
Those who do not understand history are doomed to repeat it .....
The FDA could use a significant reorganization and increase in funding (ROFL) but it still serves a very useful function. If you doubt that, look at the situation for food 'supplements'. And weep.
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Does the analgesic ruin it for use as an ingredient in meth? Is that why you can only get it combined with something else?
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ColdWetDog
Ars Legatus Legionis
Yes, it does make separating the good stuff harder. And kills the patient who inadvertently gives themselves an acetaminophen overdose - the second most common reason for liver transplant in the US (behind alcohol).
That'll show'em!
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Corporations will always literally do whatever is LEGAL that makes more profit. Even if it hurts them long term, all they care about is the next quarter or two. Corporations are all psychopaths by design. Sometimes, a privately held company may not act so psychopathically, but those corporations always either end up bought or bankrupt eventually - because original founders don't live forever. Often they want a payday. Even if they hold it until death, their heirs will often sell out. More often than not, closely held corps are run by people who are themselves psychopaths, like Musk.
This is why laws and regulations are so, so important. You have the entire Republican Party ideologically opposed to regulation, but literally getting rid of regulations means that the worst, but most short term profitable behavior will become the STANDARD of behavior of all significantly sized corps.
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It's weird psycho shit. He took his kids on a several hour trip to chainsaw off a whale's head.
But you kind of left off the rest. He also drove an ex-wife to suicide, so he knows something about mental health.
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1) I'm sure that this will become the next right wing cause celebre - "How dare they take my phenylephrine away!!! Freedom!! Trump needs to appoint someone who will bring COMMON SENSE and FREEDOM back to the FDA!" Because rich Republicans never met a grift they didn't want to preserve (cf. nutritional "supplements" that are unregulated and sometimes poison)
2) Democrats were actually trying to end this grift, but my right wing relatives are going to somehow blame this on "corrupt Democrats scamming people for decades " - that is, when they aren't claiming it's actually effective and people should have the choice to buy it or not. Yes, that makes no sense. Yes, that will happen.
3) Democrats are never allowed to be in power long enough to actually make things better in my lifetime. We are stuck in an endless cycle of Republicans getting a country and states that have been partly made better (economy, regulations, crime, teen pregnancy, etc), then the Republicans inherit things going pretty well, and they stay going pretty well, and most voters give Republicans credit for the better economy and better state of things that Dems fought for. Then eventually, the Republicans screw the pooch like they ALWAYS do eventually, and people get mad enough for one single election to elect Democrats, but not with a fillibuster proof majority, and Republicans block or delay most of the Democratic party platform, and claim that they are preserving freedom against tyranny, but nevertheless, Dems are able to do some things that are good, like the Biden infrastructure bill, which a few Repubs in safe seats are then allowed to vote for to pass it (as long as Trump doesn't need to be re-elected to avoid being tried for his many crimes), then all the Repubs who campaigned against the good thing and voted against it, show up at ribbon cutting ceremonies and take credit for it.
Then most voters forget all the good things Dems did and all the bad things Repubs did, simply because things aren't perfect and Dems haven't fixed everything yet, and they elect Republicans AGAIN (even if a Dem is still president, they'll take away whatever slim Congressional majority Dems might have had that enabled them to get at least something done).
I want off this awful ride.
2) Democrats were actually trying to end this grift, but my right wing relatives are going to somehow blame this on "corrupt Democrats scamming people for decades " - that is, when they aren't claiming it's actually effective and people should have the choice to buy it or not. Yes, that makes no sense. Yes, that will happen.
3) Democrats are never allowed to be in power long enough to actually make things better in my lifetime. We are stuck in an endless cycle of Republicans getting a country and states that have been partly made better (economy, regulations, crime, teen pregnancy, etc), then the Republicans inherit things going pretty well, and they stay going pretty well, and most voters give Republicans credit for the better economy and better state of things that Dems fought for. Then eventually, the Republicans screw the pooch like they ALWAYS do eventually, and people get mad enough for one single election to elect Democrats, but not with a fillibuster proof majority, and Republicans block or delay most of the Democratic party platform, and claim that they are preserving freedom against tyranny, but nevertheless, Dems are able to do some things that are good, like the Biden infrastructure bill, which a few Repubs in safe seats are then allowed to vote for to pass it (as long as Trump doesn't need to be re-elected to avoid being tried for his many crimes), then all the Repubs who campaigned against the good thing and voted against it, show up at ribbon cutting ceremonies and take credit for it.
Then most voters forget all the good things Dems did and all the bad things Repubs did, simply because things aren't perfect and Dems haven't fixed everything yet, and they elect Republicans AGAIN (even if a Dem is still president, they'll take away whatever slim Congressional majority Dems might have had that enabled them to get at least something done).
I want off this awful ride.
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Except of course when they stuff that is illegal, perhaps even criminal, to make a profit.
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At least when it's illegal, and they do it, there is a potential for legal recourse - lawsuits, criminal prosecution, etc. Not that a Trump administration will enforce anything (unless it's against a corp that hasn't been sufficiently loyal and generous to Trump, perhaps). If what a company is doing is legal, there's literally nothing you can do about it.
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Preventing drug manufacturers from listing it as a effective drug is probably good, but that's just going to drive phenylephrine to the unregulated supplement market. As a chronic allergy sufferer (I've seen several allergists and had nasl surgery), whatever phenylephrine does (even if it's placebo) seems to help me a bit. It's not going to clear up real congestion like Afrin will, but that 1% seems to put me over the edge from noticeable minor symptoms to unnoticeable. I'd rather buy a regulated drug than an unregulated supplement, although....
What would be nice is if some agency had regulatory power over supplements to ensure supplements contain the ingrediants they say they do and nothing harmful. Then I wouldn't care what phenylephrine is classified as.
What would be nice is if some agency had regulatory power over supplements to ensure supplements contain the ingrediants they say they do and nothing harmful. Then I wouldn't care what phenylephrine is classified as.
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I hope you're not taking decongestants before diving...
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Watching NileRed has taught me that it probably just makes it harder, but not impossible.
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My ENT actually prescribed me Flonase and Allegra-D for dive trips. (Allegra-D has 120mg of pseudoephedrine) Without it, I get barotrauma in my ears which is not fun. I have actually had the balloon surgery in my eustachian tubes which still didn't help. I do limit my diving, but it is basically the only way I get to go under water anymore.
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I'd thought they'd already ruled to remove the compound since I read about it over a year ago. Guess the wheels of Government do turn slooowly after all.
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Look, it's not just manufacturers who had an incentive to keep this crap on the shelf; the government itself wanted to reduce demand for the only safe and effective decongestant on the market because it was being used to make meth. Most people had no idea that the ingredient in Sudafed was replaced, so they just thought it didn't work as well as they remembered, and kept buying it. I mean lots of people buy this stuff and complain that it doesn't work (and some are placebo'd into saying it does). So as long as consumers were buying "fake" Sudafed instead of real pseudo-ephedrine, there was less demand for this precursor, and the DEA was happy.
But I'm sure manufacturers will find some other BS ingredient to keep demand for pseudoephedrine artificially low for decades more.
But I'm sure manufacturers will find some other BS ingredient to keep demand for pseudoephedrine artificially low for decades more.
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Nope. There's a law about that. FDA can't do shit about shit without congress voting to fix that law.
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Dr_EluSivE
Wise, Aged Ars Veteran
Good!. When the moved the good stuff behind the counter, i tried the new version a few times, and it did absolutely nothing. So now I just show my cred's and get the real stuff a few times a year when its needed. It's simple, far less hassle than the symptoms it lessens.
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Oh, the tweakers are going to be really tweaking over this. It is very easy to manufacture Methanfetimine (crank) with Sudafed. I wonder if Trump will try to stop this? This could adversely affect his little indulgence.
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Aren't you worried about at some point, if you have accumulated sudafed to a significant degree, that you will pass some threshold where TSA has questions about why you are transporting so much meth precursor?
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I mean, they should start packing just because Trump and co have already said they are just going to fire everyone and replace all of government, without cause.
Although I do wonder about the legality of that, but with this current SCOTUS, who even knows what the law is? We won't find out until Trump does it anyhow and someone tries to sue. All old law is just thrown out the window, even lawyers say they don't know what the law is anymore and can't make any predictions about how SCOTUS will rule on any case, because they are just doing whatever the hell they want.
But in principle, career employees shouldn't be able to be fired just so that Trump and co can basically void their government pensions. I'm sure the Project 2025/Heritage Fndn people will say, Oh, that's not what this is about, but it will be an effect - career employees who have worked a significant number of years, getting fired "just because we want to", and having to try to start over, late in life, at an age where they will likely face age discrimination, to try to get a retirement outside government.
I don't know, maybe they will still be entitled to at least part of their retirement benefits based on length of service? I don't really know how government pensions work exactly but I would have thought the public employee unions would have negotiated something about retirement benefits for people fired without cause after serving for 15 or 20 years.
Anyone in govt eligible for retirement ought to take it now.
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On a side rant... "Over-the-counter" has always been confusing to me. Sounds backwards. It's the presrescription medications that are kept behind (over/across) the counter and handed over it by the pharmacist. "Off-the-shelf" would be a clearer term.
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Where? I'm in BC myself and it's recently been pulled from Shopper's Drug Mart. Never been available at London Drugs. I bought some on a recent trip to the States and am not looking forward to doing a treasure hunt through smaller pharmacies hoping to find one who carries it.
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It's not ideal but I often take a 24hr Sudafed for day 1 of the diving because the flight in often gives me congestion. I understand there's some risk, and I accept it.
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Not really. It's not like I've got ten big boxes or anything, it's mostly hyperbole. I think I've got 4 "sheets" of blister packs in there or something like that.
Also, the TSA is incompetent.
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Humans will be very very lucky to be inhabiting a world even as good as the one protagonist in Idiocracy was dropped into.
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Like many crimes, making meth has the potential to hurt a lot of people besides the ones actually doing it. For example https://meincmagazine.com/science/201...s-used-for-cooking-much-longer-than-expected/
Yeah, it's a pain. But it helps. And eliminating phenylepherine solves your Sudafed PE concern already.
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