Of the seven illnesses identified so far, four are in children age 3 or younger.
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FDA links raw cheese to outbreak; Makers “100% disagree,” refuse recall
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There's no 100% safe fool proof food and bad things can always happen.
But making cheese out of raw milk can be made to an acceptable level of safety.
That's because (when properly done) the fermentation process in cheese making will kill off most bacteria.
That's why (traditional) cheese will last months and years in a shelf whereas milk will spoil in a day or two.
And that's why people started making cheese in the first place: long term preservation of milk before fridges were a thing.
On the other hand probably the only relatively safe way to drink raw (non-boiled) milk is if you know the cow's name, clean her udder yourself and drink the milk immediately.
And when you have businesses and members of the US' Government promoting the health benefits of drinking raw milk... well, that's a bad sign for the food safety standards in the USA.
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When I was a kid, we got our milk right out of the tank at my uncle's farm.
We didn't know any better. I grew up in a rural, diary farming area, worked on diary farms as a teenager, including my uncle's.
Its patently stupid to drink raw cow milk. We got lucky.
There is a reason they began pasteurization to begin with. Raw cow milk can kill babies and the old/ill. And it did, until pasteurization. Anybody who claims that raw cow milk is somehow healthier and more 'natural' needs to check themselves. In no way did 'nature' intend for people to drink the milk of herd animals. We did that on our own....and found out it killed less people when pasteurized.
I drank raw cow milk for years, and it would be easy to say 'Oh, it never hurt me or grandpa!!!' But that's a myopic, ignorant argument. This practice should be simply banned by law. No resale of raw milk. You want raw milk? Buy a fuckin' cow and keep your germ-infested tit-squeezings threatening your own family.
We didn't know any better. I grew up in a rural, diary farming area, worked on diary farms as a teenager, including my uncle's.
Its patently stupid to drink raw cow milk. We got lucky.
There is a reason they began pasteurization to begin with. Raw cow milk can kill babies and the old/ill. And it did, until pasteurization. Anybody who claims that raw cow milk is somehow healthier and more 'natural' needs to check themselves. In no way did 'nature' intend for people to drink the milk of herd animals. We did that on our own....and found out it killed less people when pasteurized.
I drank raw cow milk for years, and it would be easy to say 'Oh, it never hurt me or grandpa!!!' But that's a myopic, ignorant argument. This practice should be simply banned by law. No resale of raw milk. You want raw milk? Buy a fuckin' cow and keep your germ-infested tit-squeezings threatening your own family.
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But did you drank it without boiling it?
In the rural area my family lives, most people in my grandparents' generation were illiterate. But even then people knew to boil milk from their own cows.
And ironically, people kept boiling store bought pasteurized milk for long after the sale of raw milk to the general public was banned.
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The GOP has so undermined trust in regulatory agencies, it has created an atmosphere of "my ignorance is just as relevant as your science."
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Nope. Drank raw. To this day, I still reflexively shake the milk container before pouring it, to mix the cream back in.
In my area, in the 1970s.....you either got your milk from the store, or you saved money and bought it cheaper from a relative. Nobody boiled it, honestly never heard of that. I had two uncles, grandfather and great-grandfather who were all dairy farmers, but I've not heard a whisper of boiling. I'll have to inquire with my mother to see of she heard of it......or if she was boiling it, and being under 10 years old I just didn't notice.
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I remember that the fresh stuff had a different flavor. Not dramatic, but detectable. About like the difference between 2 different local dairy's cheddar or even 2 different brands of pasteurized milk.
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So let me see if I have this straight. Raw Farm churned over the cream of the evidence, and it curdled their relationship with the FDA. The whole thing is being put out to pasture, and now the FDA is going to have to skim over everything to make sure they aren't milked in litigation.
Did I get all that right? I'm in a bit of a mood, so if I got something wrong, please butter me up before you deliver the bad news.
... I'll get my coat.
Did I get all that right? I'm in a bit of a mood, so if I got something wrong, please butter me up before you deliver the bad news.
... I'll get my coat.
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Crazy right? I had to look it up but Gruyère, Comté, Brie Camembert, Parmigiano Reggiano
and many other standard cheeses are made from raw milk. I guess its mostly tradition and the already complicated D.O.P certifications that prevent any change but its still a bit frightening.
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My ex was (probably still is) an advocate for raw milk. Nothing, literally nothing, could convince her otherwise.
I got horribly ill once because she bought organic greens and served without washing it. She had some sort of reason why it was better that way.
We're not together anymore.
She's not a conservative --- this insanity is bipartisan.
I got horribly ill once because she bought organic greens and served without washing it. She had some sort of reason why it was better that way.
We're not together anymore.
She's not a conservative --- this insanity is bipartisan.
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I personally would choose a pasteurized product over an unpasteurized one every time.
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An entertaining jeremiad but the germ-infested tit-squeezings really seems to epitomise the whole MAHA/MAGA rabble — I can easily visualise their wearing the daft headwear with their hands firmly stuck up some cow's bum.
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MilanKraft
Ars Tribunus Angusticlavius
Flipped around, this is really the ultimate "hypocrisy crux", right?
If we were to look at the medical histories and dietary habits of all the administration and its kooks, and see how many actually denied their own kids and themselves vaccines, regularly put raw milk in the dinner table glasses, denied someone a doctor's visit offering instead of a bottle of Dr. Oz' Herbo-max Wonder-sups.... I am willing to bet, other than Kennedy himself (who is a literal lunatic), none of these reckless culture warrior motherfuckers eats their own proverbial dogfood.
I bet nearly ALL get / got all the normal vaccines, nearly ALL eat and drink only non-raw dairy, nearly ALL go to a traditional doctor to get a Walgreens Rx for whatever they have that day, not herbal crap or the "an untested supplement for every organ in the body!" we see on TV. All this shit... it's all part of culture wars chaos designed to cause ordinary people to question established facts that shouldn't be questioned... and to distract, distract, distract.
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What goes through your head that you jump from raw milk to talking about PrEP? (Ok maybe I can see it but its giving “why are you so obsessed with us” vibes)
One is trusting the science, talking to your doctor, and taking responsibility for your own actions and the other is… stupidity.
If you are on PrEP than you are not in denial about the risks, clearly raw milk drinkers are very much in denial.
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Parmigia-ano.
Gran Pada-ano.
Italians don't fear the cheeseboard
Nor do the Belgians, the French or Swiss
(We can be like they are) Comté Gruyere
(Don't fear the cheeseboard) Babybel be damned!
(Don't fear the cheeseboard) There's so many to try
(Don't fear the cheeseboard) Maybe wrapped in ham
Parmigia-ano.
Gran Pada-ano.
Pecori-ino
Roquefort PDO
Gourmet cheese and crackers
Are together in eternity
(Gourmet cheese and Crackers)
Million Europeans each and everyday (eating fancy cheese)
Million Europeans each and everyday (redefine delicousness)
Another fancy fromage eaten everyday
(We can be like they are) Comté Gruyere
(Don't fear the cheeseboard) Babybel be damned!
(Don't fear the cheeseboard) There's so many to try
(Don't fear the cheeseboard) Maybe wrapped in ham
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However, there's very, very strict requirements for testing and clean working in European dairy plants processing milk to cheese and there's very few incidents of listeria outbreaks in Europe due to raw milk cheeses as far as I'm aware.
On top of that the cheese in question here was a Cheddar, which is a hard cheese that should become acidic and dry enough during production and aging that it should kill any Listeria monocytogenes and a lot of other harmful bacteria present in the raw milk. This indicates that it's possible that the source of the contamination might not even directly be the raw milk, but contamination through surfaces or tools during production or processing. Which, if true, makes it even more damning for the producer imho.
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Cows make a difference. Gurnsey milk tastes different than Holstien which is different than . . .
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20 minute old milk not yet chilled will taste different than chilled milk. Ice cream will taste different when ultra cold compared to slightly melty. It is how our taste buds work.
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Once upon a time, in a galaxy far, far away, I was but a wee lad. My mother took me to a party at a fellow classmate's farm with maybe 15 other wee lads and lasses. I ate some homemade cheese there, and developed an illness related to Campylobacter and Salmonella exposure, along with two other boys and one girl. I spent a week and a half in a hospital, and obviously survived, but the girl died. I randomly think about her even today many, many years later.
None of us knew the cheese was homemade, and probably wouldn't have cared, but maybe my mom would have, and situations like this are how you expose people. I could see someone bringing cheese from these guys to a party and exposing people, not telling the other people where it came from. It fits the mindset of these kind of "know better" health types.
So it isn't just people who have parents who knowingly give their kids raw milk garbage. Sometimes it's just random food at a random event.
Always be wary, people.
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/me puts on his Wisconsin Hat.
Some of my favorite cheeses are raw milk. Upland Cheese makes Rush Creek Reserve. It's a treat every autumn, and the only reason it exists is because the cheese maker follows the guidelines and adheres to rigid methods to ensure a safe product, while using raw milk. In WI you can't use raw milk unless you age the cheese a minimum of 60 days...and guess what, they've never had an issue or any outbreaks I'm aware of. They also raise their own cows and use their own milk. So, they control for quality for the entire process.
And this isn't some po-dunk cheese company, they've won more awards than just about any other cheese maker in the US. Pleasant Ridge Reserve, their other cheese from Rush Creek Reserve, is the most awarded cheese in US history (it also happens to be delicious, like seriously, it's incredible).
My point is that technique and process matters and clearly Raw Farm, with their myriad outbreaks and issues, is more interested in making raw products than quality products. You can absolutely make a safe, delicious product with raw milk, but it takes work and adherence to process and procedure to do it. Sounds like these chuckle-heads are cutting corners.
Just to be clear, no you 100000% shouldn't drink raw milk, you dumb ass...unless I don't like your politics, then drink up, just don't give it to your kids or friends...
I honestly think I could make millions just selling un-homogenized milk if I marketed it correctly. I can just claim a bunch of unproven crunchy benefits and I think people would pay 2x the normal stuff, make bank, and I wouldn't have to accidently kill people with listeria.
Some of my favorite cheeses are raw milk. Upland Cheese makes Rush Creek Reserve. It's a treat every autumn, and the only reason it exists is because the cheese maker follows the guidelines and adheres to rigid methods to ensure a safe product, while using raw milk. In WI you can't use raw milk unless you age the cheese a minimum of 60 days...and guess what, they've never had an issue or any outbreaks I'm aware of. They also raise their own cows and use their own milk. So, they control for quality for the entire process.
And this isn't some po-dunk cheese company, they've won more awards than just about any other cheese maker in the US. Pleasant Ridge Reserve, their other cheese from Rush Creek Reserve, is the most awarded cheese in US history (it also happens to be delicious, like seriously, it's incredible).
My point is that technique and process matters and clearly Raw Farm, with their myriad outbreaks and issues, is more interested in making raw products than quality products. You can absolutely make a safe, delicious product with raw milk, but it takes work and adherence to process and procedure to do it. Sounds like these chuckle-heads are cutting corners.
Just to be clear, no you 100000% shouldn't drink raw milk, you dumb ass...unless I don't like your politics, then drink up, just don't give it to your kids or friends...
I honestly think I could make millions just selling un-homogenized milk if I marketed it correctly. I can just claim a bunch of unproven crunchy benefits and I think people would pay 2x the normal stuff, make bank, and I wouldn't have to accidently kill people with listeria.
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What I said was a joke, like cigarettes are a self correcting problem.
My original thought was that, but I didn't want to get stomped by the mods.
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Maybe they should just change their name to Raw Farms Cheese and Septic services.
I've had PR Reserve, truly an excellent cheese. In general I've got no problem with raw milk cheeses - even young ones like Brie, which you used to be able to buy in the US despite an FDA/USDA(?) ban on imports that was diligently overlooked for many years until a crackdown maybe 15 years ago. Since then it's difficult or impossible to come by. It tastes much, much better than any American-made Brie. Whether that's due to pasteurization or terroir or simply to process, I don't know, but I never had any trouble with it, and don't even think twice abuot aged, hard cheeses like cheddar.
In this case I'm not so sure it's a problem with raw versus pasteurized milk. This company sounds ike an infectious clown show, so it could have been contaminated after aging, during packaging or other subsequent handliing. I think the takeaway for them is just "Don't buy products from Raw Farms, no matter what the product is. If they can't even get aged hard cheeses right, they're just a general menace to public health.
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Nothing wrong with raw milk cheese - if prepared correctly. Cheese was a way to preserve dairy products. Most forms of food processing was to preserve food for later consumption before widespread food preservation techniques like refrigeration were commonplace. You have to remember even in the US, the 19th century was when you started having national brands because food spoiled within days so you were limited in how far it could travel - you often couldn't go beyond a few states.
Everything "processed" like cheese, preserves/jams/jellies, smoked fish, jerky, pickling, fermentation, etc., was done to prevent the food from spoiling so you could eat it later. Of course, you learned how to do it so it wasn't dangerous, which would otherwise defeat the purpose. It's why the stuff is stored at room temperature - the act of preservation keeps it so. Even many techniques are often germ warfare - fermented foods like kimchi and such work because the bacteria that are harmless to us generally poison the bacteria that are harmful - beer, wine, etc., the yeast basically produce the alcohol which makes it hard for the bad bacteria to survive, while in kimchi and others it's things like alcohol and acids. The fact they make food taste better is a side benefit to the technique.
Today we have refrigeration techniques that are also a preservation technique (short term). It's why you don't have milk delivered to your door anymore - it spoils so you only got a day's worth of milk delivered to your door daily because you couldn't get it at the store. You buy it by the gallon and keep it in the fridge for a week or two.
As for cows - well, compare where the teats are on a cow, versus on a human. And realize that on a human, the teats are generally far away from the dirt in any potential position a mother might find themselves in - save for lying down on the stomach which generally isn't all that comfortable. If you sit, or lie down, the teats remain away from the ground, which means they stay generally clean so "raw human milk" is generally clean and free from germs.
Now compare against a cow who lies down on the ground and where do their teats end up? Right in the dirt. Which is fine, except it's the same dirt they generally do their business on or many other cows have done same on. So it gets very dirty, and microbes and such coat the teats and even a little get inside (which is why cleaning the teats isn't enough). This is fine - calves have defenses against it. Humans don't, because we never needed to.
Everything "processed" like cheese, preserves/jams/jellies, smoked fish, jerky, pickling, fermentation, etc., was done to prevent the food from spoiling so you could eat it later. Of course, you learned how to do it so it wasn't dangerous, which would otherwise defeat the purpose. It's why the stuff is stored at room temperature - the act of preservation keeps it so. Even many techniques are often germ warfare - fermented foods like kimchi and such work because the bacteria that are harmless to us generally poison the bacteria that are harmful - beer, wine, etc., the yeast basically produce the alcohol which makes it hard for the bad bacteria to survive, while in kimchi and others it's things like alcohol and acids. The fact they make food taste better is a side benefit to the technique.
Today we have refrigeration techniques that are also a preservation technique (short term). It's why you don't have milk delivered to your door anymore - it spoils so you only got a day's worth of milk delivered to your door daily because you couldn't get it at the store. You buy it by the gallon and keep it in the fridge for a week or two.
As for cows - well, compare where the teats are on a cow, versus on a human. And realize that on a human, the teats are generally far away from the dirt in any potential position a mother might find themselves in - save for lying down on the stomach which generally isn't all that comfortable. If you sit, or lie down, the teats remain away from the ground, which means they stay generally clean so "raw human milk" is generally clean and free from germs.
Now compare against a cow who lies down on the ground and where do their teats end up? Right in the dirt. Which is fine, except it's the same dirt they generally do their business on or many other cows have done same on. So it gets very dirty, and microbes and such coat the teats and even a little get inside (which is why cleaning the teats isn't enough). This is fine - calves have defenses against it. Humans don't, because we never needed to.
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Even milk from the same cow moved to a different pasture that has a different mix of meadow greens will taste different.
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I look forward to the days when all these "raw food" monsters get sued into oblivion.
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It was technically pasteruized along it's way to boiling and eventually burning.
Technically pasteurized, the best kind of pasteurized!
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I feel like you are missing something I thought of as common knowledge.
Businesses and Industry groups lobby the government ($$$$$) to prevent regulations from impacting their bottom lines. This is why Oil & Gas industries along with other fossil fuel related businesses strongly support Republicans ($$$$$) that for some reason are always working on reducing regulations or not enforcing them.
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No, idiotic parents end up killing their children. The people who buy the cheese won't listen to the warnings and marketing will double down, blaming "toxins" from other products they ate.
This is the same crap that happened during Covid-19 and any problems that occurred with the Covid-19 vaccine.
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And milk from the same cow on the same pasture will be slightly different in composition in the spring, summer, and fall. A few cheeses are only made a a specific time of year because of that seasonal difference in the milk composition.
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