Doubts about a new desktop build

[naw]

I’m thinking about replacing my current PC. I’m not a gamer, so a discrete graphics card seems a waste; also, I’m not an overclocker so the parts will run at stock speed. I plan to use the PC for software development and to tinker with virtual machines from time to time.

My main doubt is about the processor. Since I will have an iGPU, I'm limited on the AMD options.

My first idea is to get a Ryzen 3400G (164€, 184$). It’s still a Raven Ridge (Zen+/Vega) part and I’m not sure if the motherboards will come with a BIOS that supports it.

Then I thought: hey AMD provides a upgrade path, so buy now a crappy CPU (e.g. Ryzen 200GE for 46€, 52$) and upgrade when Renoir (Zen2/Navi) APUs are out. The 200GE will be an upgrade over my current system, but I don’t like the idea of buying a CPU and dumping it the next year, and I don't know if the Zen2 APUs will worth the effort.

The other option is stick with Intel since their CPUs come with an iGPU. Here I'm thinking on i5-9400 (214€, 240$) or maybe i5-9600k (246€, 275$ plus ~25€ for heatsink and fan).

RAM: probably Corsair Vengeance LPX 3200. 2x8GB (88€, 99$) or 2x16GB (169€, 189$) of RAM. 32 is overkill right now, but I have heard that is better 2x16GB rather than a future 4x8GB. In case of Intel, I probably will go for slower and cheaper parts (2666 or 3000Mhz)

Motherboard (here I mainly look for 6 SATA ports and that one of the video ports is a VGA/D-SUB for an old display)
For AM Asus PRIME B450M-A (84€, 95$)
For Intel: Gigabyte GA-B360M DS3H (72€, 81$)

Storage: Several from my current system, including a SATA SSD (Crucial MX200).

Case, power supply... still not decided.

Thanks!

Edit: I forgot: I will use Linux as my main Operative System

 

[continuum]

I’m not sure if the motherboards will come with a BIOS that supports it.

AMD will loan you an upgrade kit if you need to flash the UEFI... so while that's a hassle it's a solveable one.

 

[Utwig]

AMD 470 board + Ryzen 7 2700 are probably best value now. Don't limit yourself by narrowing to on-CPU video, you can always put in a cheap videocard. Also don't bother with VGA at this point, it's only use is for servers or POS systems. Get HDMI or displayport.

For Virtual Machines Ryzen with ability to have many cores is the best now.

nVidia works fine in Linux and I read lately AMD drivers (mesa) have also become really good, so for Linux desktop both should be fine.

 

[DaveB]

The Ryzen 3400G is 4C/8T so not a good choice for virtual machine "tinkering" since you won't be looking to replace it. Here in the US, the old Ryzen 7 2700 with 8C/16T is a real bargain at $180. An inexpensive $75 B450 mobo like the ASUS Prime B450M-A/CSM has the 6 SATA ports you want with an M.2 port. And here a minimal older model GPU can be had for $50 although a modern GT 1030 or RX 550 will more like $100. If you want to use an iGPU and have lots of threads to play with, then an Intel i7-8700 with 6C/12T is a good choice at $270 in the US. The MSI B360M PRO-VH for $75 in the US has the VGA port and 6 SATA ports you want. It also has an M.2 port and an HDMI video output should you upgrade your monitor.

 

[Tad2]

being that you're not a gamer or overclocker, you pretty much don't need a powerful pc.
so just get a cheap and used prebuilt..

Seems unnecessary to go through all this trouble and research to build a desktop pc with no real power.

Only thing I would recommend is research whether or no there is some specific hardware to go with your programming/virtual needs (i don't know about either of those)

 

[Drizzt321]

Yea, if you're looking at possible virtual machine use, possibly multiple, I'd go with a 2700/3600 with a something like RX 480 refurb which will give you 2 DP1.4 and 2 HDMI2.0b which will let you run some good sized/number of monitors as you'd like. Yes, it's more horsepower than you might need, so it'll just clock down fine. Then again maybe you want to get into OpenCL a bit?

 

[UserJoe]

Don't get a Ryzen APU if you want to run Linux. There are still problems getting mainline distributions to install and run on them.

 

[grommit!]

Here in the US, the old Ryzen 7 2700 with 8C/16T is a real bargain at $180.

US prices are irrelevant to a European, doubly so when it's an in-store only price that even most Americans don't have access to.

I’m thinking about replacing my current PC. I’m not a gamer, so a discrete graphics card seems a waste;

Wouldn't that depend on what tradeoff you're willing to put up with. If you want more cores, then a Ryzen 2000/3000 CPU + cheap discrete GPU might still be cheaper than an Intel CPU with the same number of cores. And if Ryzen APU support under Linux is problematic, you might end up having to get a discrete GPU anyway.

[edit] Looking at some examples in the 150€ - 200€ range:

Ryzen 5 2600 160€,
Core i5 9400F 189€,

Geforce GT710 40€ - yes, it has a VGA port.

Bear in mind the i5 does not have hyper-threading, whereas the R5 2600 is a 6C/12T part. So an additional 10€ (CPU+GPU) gets you a more capable solution than the Intel part.

 

[naw]

I’m not sure if the motherboards will come with a BIOS that supports it.

AMD will loan you an upgrade kit if you need to flash the UEFI... so while that's a hassle it's a solveable one.

I knew about it, but I tought that was limited to the US. For what I see in some forums, the Boot Kit also seems to be available here in Spain.

AMD 470 board + Ryzen 7 2700 are probably best value now. Don't limit yourself by narrowing to on-CPU video, you can always put in a cheap videocard. Also don't bother with VGA at this point, it's only use is for servers or POS systems. Get HDMI or displayport.

For Virtual Machines Ryzen with ability to have many cores is the best now.

nVidia works fine in Linux and I read lately AMD drivers (mesa) have also become really good, so for Linux desktop both should be fine.

I already have an HDMI display, but I also have an old VGA only display that I'll prefer to conserve. Of course, when it dies I would use a DVI/DisplayPort connection. That said, it seems that for 10€/11$ I could buy an active DVI-D to VGA adapter.

The cheapest graphic card is an nVidia GT710 (35€, 39$) which I always have dismissed because it's ancient and the linux drivers are legacy. The cheapest recent video card seems to be the an nVidia GT 1030 (82€, 91$), it has DVI-D and HDMI, so an DVI-VGA adapter will be needed. If we add a Ryzen 5 2600 (140€, 155$), we get a system better than the i5-9400 both on CPU as in GPU for a similar price.

About the CPU sweet spot, using CpuBenchmark scores as reference, seems to be either 2600 or 3600:
i5 9400F (165€, 184$): 12151
Ryzen 5 2600 (139€, 155$): 13507
Ryzen 7 2700 (210€, 235$): 15010
Ryzen 5 3600 (209€, 234$): 20132

Don't get a Ryzen APU if you want to run Linux. There are still problems getting mainline distributions to install and run on them.

It seems that they have found the issue and will release a BIOS fix soon

Thanks for your answers!

 

[skazz]

My answer to anyone wanting to buy a new PC without requirements to overclock or game is very simple:

Buy an Intel NUC


These days there are some pretty powerful ones, and you can just choose the one most aligned to your combination of storage and processing requirements.

The benefits of the NUC are:
- Almost no desk space required
- Get all drivers from the Intel site, easy and straightforward
- Very little risk of incompatibility due to the standard internal components
- Easy enough to add both M.2 and your existing SATA storage
- Various models even come with Thunderbolt 3 to allow expansion in future if your requirements change drastically

 

[Drizzt321]

My answer to anyone wanting to buy a new PC without requirements to overclock or game is very simple:

Buy an Intel NUC


These days there are some pretty powerful ones, and you can just choose the one most aligned to your combination of storage and processing requirements.

The benefits of the NUC are:
- Almost no desk space required
- Get all drivers from the Intel site, easy and straightforward
- Very little risk of incompatibility due to the standard internal components
- Easy enough to add both M.2 and your existing SATA storage
- Various models even come with Thunderbolt 3 to allow expansion in future if your requirements change drastically

It's handy, for sure, but I think even the current NUC are limited to 4-core CPUs and OP is looking to do some amount of VMs which another 2-4 cores will be very handy. AND you don't have to play secret decoder ring on the CPU model to figure out if it supports virtualization extensions.

 

[UserJoe]

Don't get a Ryzen APU if you want to run Linux. There are still problems getting mainline distributions to install and run on them.

It seems that they have found the issue and will release a BIOS fix soon

Thanks for your answers!

That's a different issue that applies to the new Zen 2 cores and not to the APUs. The issue I'm talking about is this one. it's been ongoing since the first Raven Ridge APUs came out almost a year and a half ago. People get random lockups and crashes. There's a thread in the Linux Kung Fu forum about it.

 

[skazz]

It's handy, for sure, but I think even the current NUC are limited to 4-core CPUs and OP is looking to do some amount of VMs which another 2-4 cores will be very handy. AND you don't have to play secret decoder ring on the CPU model to figure out if it supports virtualization extensions.

I was thinking that https://wccftech.com/intel-ghost-canyon ... 9-8-cores/ should be out by now. Probably my mistake.

Still, "Tinkering" with VMs tends to use very little CPU, at least that's my experience. Enough RAM and fast I/O is considerably more important unless you are going to run significant workloads in the host and guests at the same time.

But it's a fair point. Especially for ease of adding storage a tower PC would offer benefits.