Don’t expect Ubuntu phones from major carriers until 2015

Canonical: Ideal Ubuntu phone user is someone who doesn't need a lot of apps.

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[Clearflower]

Hmm... this is interesting...

In the comments section of this article, Jono Bacon said that it was his own "opinion," about what the OS progress they have so far, and not "fact". But either way, looking at all the comments here so far, this definitely looks like poor public relations just from his words alone. I think canonical should stop talking about these critical issues in public until they have and actual OEM on board...

 

[Archangel Mychael]

I'm interested in one. Do I need a lot of apps? No. What I primarily use is OpenVPN, remote desktop, a Proxmox app, and a KVM app. I'd be interested to know whether or not I even need these as "apps" on an Ubuntu phone, or if I'm just going to have access to the OpenVPN software, or Virtual Machine Manager, and the like.

 

[Voo42]

StarKruzr[/url]":4ggpb6w2]

TimtheTaxMan[/url]":4ggpb6w2]Not that I'm opposed to this, but I fail to see the point. Unless the phone is 100% FOSS, you might as well stick with Android. Otherwise you just have another Linux based smartphone with way fewer apps and no greater freedom or transparency.

* It will be faster than Android on the same hardware in the same way that iOS or Windows Phone is, because it will be running executable code rather than interpreted.

Always fun to see people make technical statements that contradict themselves. Hint: Look up what WinPhone apps are written in.

 

[daneren2005]

null_interface[/url]":3r2rsqc4]Given that some huge percentage of apps are just custom frontends to websites and indeed offer no additional functionality, the lack of apps may not necessarily be a bad thing.

Well, except those custom frontends are generally much easier to access and use then the website, so I will have to disagree with you on that.

 

[cwyers]

StarKruzr[/url]":166ovhwp]

TimtheTaxMan[/url]":166ovhwp]Not that I'm opposed to this, but I fail to see the point. Unless the phone is 100% FOSS, you might as well stick with Android. Otherwise you just have another Linux based smartphone with way fewer apps and no greater freedom or transparency.

There are a couple of points.

* It will be faster than Android on the same hardware in the same way that iOS or Windows Phone is, because it will be running executable code rather than interpreted.

* There is an existing, large, enthusiastic developer and software base for Linux.

That performance-per-clock difference might be worth it all by itself.

Well that's silly. If iOS and Windows Phone already have this advantage, and they already have an app ecosystem (iOS even has a better one than Android, and Windows Phone is near or at usable levels of app penetration), how is this a benefit for the Ubuntu phone?

 

[Xangis]

As a current webOS phone owner I'm very much looking forward to the proliferation of Ubuntu phones. A phone with a rooted OS that you can do *anything you want* on is something I can't live without, and the HP hardware is showing its age quite a bit.

 

[PhilGil]

Caffarius[/url]":3n2n5i9m]

TimtheTaxMan[/url]":3n2n5i9m]Not that I'm opposed to this, but I fail to see the point. Unless the phone is 100% FOSS, you might as well stick with Android. Otherwise you just have another Linux based smartphone with way fewer apps and no greater freedom or transparency.

That's basically what I want, "just another Linux based smartphone" but without the all seeing hand of Google in the mix.

Agreed, I'm just not sure Canonical can deliver. I hope they succeed, but over the last few years the company has come across to me as a bunch of adolescents entranced with the latest shiny toy only to discard it a few months later when a new shiny comes along.

Maybe Firefox OS has a chance, at least it's shipping on real hardware.

 

[Glocksman]

null_interface[/url]":2oqvzp1u]Given that some huge percentage of apps are just custom frontends to websites and indeed offer no additional functionality, the lack of apps may not necessarily be a bad thing.

It is if your 'must have' apps' aren't website frontends.

A good example is Quicken Mobile for iOS and Android.
I use this app every damn day to keep my accounts in order and it's practically irreplaceable
It's the one app I really missed on WP8, though Mint almost made up for it.

Absent that kind of app availability, the only way I'd use Ubuntu phone would be flashing it onto an old device just to test drive it.

 

[SheldonRoss]

StarKruzr[/url]":263oz55i]

TimtheTaxMan[/url]":263oz55i]Not that I'm opposed to this, but I fail to see the point. Unless the phone is 100% FOSS, you might as well stick with Android. Otherwise you just have another Linux based smartphone with way fewer apps and no greater freedom or transparency.

There are a couple of points.

* It will be faster than Android on the same hardware in the same way that iOS or Windows Phone is, because it will be running executable code rather than interpreted.

* There is an existing, large, enthusiastic developer and software base for Linux.

That performance-per-clock difference might be worth it all by itself.

I was under the impression that recent versions of Android where moving over to native code execution. I seem to remember reading that somewhere...

 

[Sajuuk]

SheldonRoss[/url]":3hzz9409]

StarKruzr[/url]":3hzz9409]

TimtheTaxMan[/url]":3hzz9409]Not that I'm opposed to this, but I fail to see the point. Unless the phone is 100% FOSS, you might as well stick with Android. Otherwise you just have another Linux based smartphone with way fewer apps and no greater freedom or transparency.

There are a couple of points.

* It will be faster than Android on the same hardware in the same way that iOS or Windows Phone is, because it will be running executable code rather than interpreted.

* There is an existing, large, enthusiastic developer and software base for Linux.

That performance-per-clock difference might be worth it all by itself.

I was under the impression that recent versions of Android where moving over to native code execution. I seem to remember reading that somewhere...

Not exactly, but somewhat. If I understand correctly from what I've read (and I could be dead wrong), you're talking about ART, the new android runtime that isn't officially supported yet. Dalvik uses JIT compilation to run apps, leading to considerably overhead; this is where most android performance issues come from (as far as I understand it). The premise of ART is to pre-compile the java bytecode into machine language immediately upon installation, which means it doesn't have to be interpreted every time an app is run. As of now, it can also really break your apps

 

[pa-ta]

I think that Canonical will arrive somewhat late to the "plain linux on phone" party. I am writing this on my Jolla phone with fullblown Sailfish linux (wayland + Qt5 + QML + AlienDalvik VM for Android apps). In the past I have owned also Nokia N900 & N9 pure linux based phones.

I agree that the new approach is the single unified device for all your computing needs. Still, I remenber to be run Debian LXDE chrooted inside N900 LXDEMaemo -linux and doing some libreoffice tasks with that using my desktop as remote screen (X11 over ssh)...

 

[beebee]

ws3[/url]":k8kg0lbr]

beebee[/url]":k8kg0lbr]

Ostracus[/url]":k8kg0lbr]

Canonical: Ideal Ubuntu phone user is someone who doesn't need a lot of apps.

Buy a BB.

Except BlackBerry BB10 can run Android apps.

BlackBerry's approach to Android is similar to WINE. But in the future, as processors get more powerful, Ubuntu can simply run Android in a VM.

Ubuntu can run BB10 in a VM and then you can run your Android apps on the virtualized BB10 on Ubuntu.

BB10 is proprietary, so it won't show up on an Ubuntu phone. But on a BB10 phone, most of the apps are "converted" Android apps. There are programs to convert from apk to bar format. So Ubuntu would run Android apps directly rather than use BB10.

On BB10, the Android apps run as fast as native apps, much like running Window on WINE has no speed issues. Often you can't tell it was an Android app other than it uses the "back" swipe that I have a hard time doing. On bb10, you can swipe up to get a "back" key added to the bottom of the screen.

The problem with Android apps on BB10 is some use the Google Play eco system and those can't be translated. For instance, say the app uses Google maps. Even with a converted version of Google maps on my Z10, a converted Android app can't reach that Google app. I'm on bb10.1. This may be fixed on bb10.2.

WINE does a better job in this respect. You can copy over dlls into WINE to make it look more windows like. WINE has a version of mono, which is the same as MS dotnet. If it wasn't for the fact that linux has less than 2% of the desktop market, MS would probably put out a hit on the WINE developers.

 

[la_xirsoi]

jdale[/url]":3e7c7yqc]

Ostracus[/url]":3e7c7yqc]

Canonical: Ideal Ubuntu phone user is someone who doesn't need a lot of apps.

Buy a BB.

As a current WebOS user, I'm just what he has in mind.

I'm using an LG phone that isn't quite "smart" (I like to call it a clever-phone), and I too am just what Bacon has in mind. I don't need a ton of apps. I'd just want a decent browser and some file-sharing support.

 

[Sajuuk]

beebee[/url]":1me1oi7p]

ws3[/url]":1me1oi7p]

beebee[/url]":1me1oi7p]

Ostracus[/url]":1me1oi7p]

Canonical: Ideal Ubuntu phone user is someone who doesn't need a lot of apps.

Buy a BB.

Except BlackBerry BB10 can run Android apps.

BlackBerry's approach to Android is similar to WINE. But in the future, as processors get more powerful, Ubuntu can simply run Android in a VM.

Ubuntu can run BB10 in a VM and then you can run your Android apps on the virtualized BB10 on Ubuntu.

On BB10, the Android apps run as fast as native apps, much like running Window on WINE has no speed issues. Often you can't tell it was an Android app other than it uses the "back" swipe that I have a hard time doing. On bb10, you can swipe up to get a "back" key added to the bottom of the screen.

Using a z10 running 10.2.1 right now, I have to disagree with this; android support has been getting consistently better, but the performance is still spotty depending on which apps you're running. Some apps perform absolutely fantastic (kobo, netflix) while others have substantial stutter (Kindle, Tumblr)

 

[JEDIDIAH]

ws3[/url]":1xnoye1h]

Merkoth[/url]":1xnoye1h]

ws3[/url]":1xnoye1h]

Canonical: Ideal Ubuntu phone user is someone who doesn't need a lot of apps.

... and who likes to compile their own kernels and fiddle with configuration files when stuff goes wrong.

Is this really a thing that happens to people? Last time I was forced to compile a kernel was many, many years ago.

I don't know. I don't use Linux anymore because I grew to dislike compiling kernels and fiddling with configuration files.

The last time I actually needed to compile a kernel was in the 2.0.x series.

Your FUD is out of date by at least a decade.

Time to update your nonsense. Time to find someone better to steal ideas from.

 

[a_v_s]

beebee[/url]":aje40v99]If it wasn't for the fact that linux has less than 2% of the desktop market, MS would probably put out a hit on the WINE developers.

Microsoft couldn't even if they wanted to... In US v MSFT the courts already ruled in the statement of fact, that you could copy the win32 API in its entirety for the purposes of interoperability to run Windows software on a non windows machine.

Search the linked document for "Cloning the 32-Bit Windows APIs"

 

[Chemical Tribe]

Caffarius[/url]":4g2qnhlo]

TimtheTaxMan[/url]":4g2qnhlo]Not that I'm opposed to this, but I fail to see the point. Unless the phone is 100% FOSS, you might as well stick with Android. Otherwise you just have another Linux based smartphone with way fewer apps and no greater freedom or transparency.

That's basically what I want, "just another Linux based smartphone" but without the all seeing hand of Google in the mix.

Android without the gapps?

 

[Chemical Tribe]

PhilGil[/url]":1rgtq8z2]

Caffarius[/url]":1rgtq8z2]

TimtheTaxMan[/url]":1rgtq8z2]Not that I'm opposed to this, but I fail to see the point. Unless the phone is 100% FOSS, you might as well stick with Android. Otherwise you just have another Linux based smartphone with way fewer apps and no greater freedom or transparency.

That's basically what I want, "just another Linux based smartphone" but without the all seeing hand of Google in the mix.

Agreed, I'm just not sure Canonical can deliver. I hope they succeed, but over the last few years the company has come across to me as a bunch of adolescents entranced with the latest shiny toy only to discard it a few months later when a new shiny comes along.

Maybe Firefox OS has a chance, at least it's shipping on real hardware.

Firefox looks promising, though Jolla is shipping now, if only the EU.

To me, kinda funny - it seems in the smartphone world having android compatibility is almost like having the old windows compatibility.

 

[Chemical Tribe]

Sajuuk[/url]":r2ejtbgd]

SheldonRoss[/url]":r2ejtbgd]

StarKruzr[/url]":r2ejtbgd]

TimtheTaxMan[/url]":r2ejtbgd]Not that I'm opposed to this, but I fail to see the point. Unless the phone is 100% FOSS, you might as well stick with Android. Otherwise you just have another Linux based smartphone with way fewer apps and no greater freedom or transparency.

There are a couple of points.

* It will be faster than Android on the same hardware in the same way that iOS or Windows Phone is, because it will be running executable code rather than interpreted.

* There is an existing, large, enthusiastic developer and software base for Linux.

That performance-per-clock difference might be worth it all by itself.

I was under the impression that recent versions of Android where moving over to native code execution. I seem to remember reading that somewhere...

Not exactly, but somewhat. If I understand correctly from what I've read (and I could be dead wrong), you're talking about ART, the new android runtime that isn't officially supported yet. Dalvik uses JIT compilation to run apps, leading to considerably overhead; this is where most android performance issues come from (as far as I understand it). The premise of ART is to pre-compile the java bytecode into machine language immediately upon installation, which means it doesn't have to be interpreted every time an app is run. As of now, it can also really break your apps

I've used it, you won't find much will break. What you will find of course, is apps taking 1.5-2x the space.

There is a list of them, but the main page for it seems broken.

 

[Xiao-zhi]

It should be on some Chinese handsets in 2014 running the Ubuntu Kylin version.

Canonical has been working with Chinese handset OEMs for a couple of years to lay the groundwork for this.

 

[3rdalbum]

I'm a fairly ordinary Ubuntu desktop user and I can't see why I would want an Ubuntu phone. Also, there are a few Android applications I can't live without that will almost certainly not be available on Ubuntu.

 

[null_interface]

daneren2005[/url]":2eok1sf4]

null_interface[/url]":2eok1sf4]Given that some huge percentage of apps are just custom frontends to websites and indeed offer no additional functionality, the lack of apps may not necessarily be a bad thing.

Well, except those custom frontends are generally much easier to access and use then the website, so I will have to disagree with you on that.

I'd rather use a website than most apps that just replicate the same functionality ... provided that said website doesn't force phone browsers to a crippled mobile-specific website.

 

[beebee]

Sajuuk[/url]":10su564d]

beebee[/url]":10su564d]

ws3[/url]":10su564d]

beebee[/url]":10su564d]

Ostracus[/url]":10su564d]

Canonical: Ideal Ubuntu phone user is someone who doesn't need a lot of apps.

Buy a BB.

Except BlackBerry BB10 can run Android apps.

BlackBerry's approach to Android is similar to WINE. But in the future, as processors get more powerful, Ubuntu can simply run Android in a VM.

Ubuntu can run BB10 in a VM and then you can run your Android apps on the virtualized BB10 on Ubuntu.

On BB10, the Android apps run as fast as native apps, much like running Window on WINE has no speed issues. Often you can't tell it was an Android app other than it uses the "back" swipe that I have a hard time doing. On bb10, you can swipe up to get a "back" key added to the bottom of the screen.

Using a z10 running 10.2.1 right now, I have to disagree with this; android support has been getting consistently better, but the performance is still spotty depending on which apps you're running. Some apps perform absolutely fantastic (kobo, netflix) while others have substantial stutter (Kindle, Tumblr)

We are probably in agreement. I'm probably not running the apps that don't convert well. But some native apps are laggy too. The USA Today news app for example could use some work.

 

[atu30004]

Shuttleworth has finally ensured that he is being hoisted by his own petard.

 

[Caffarius]

PhilGil[/url]":26lxi6sn]

Caffarius[/url]":26lxi6sn]

TimtheTaxMan[/url]":26lxi6sn]Not that I'm opposed to this, but I fail to see the point. Unless the phone is 100% FOSS, you might as well stick with Android. Otherwise you just have another Linux based smartphone with way fewer apps and no greater freedom or transparency.

That's basically what I want, "just another Linux based smartphone" but without the all seeing hand of Google in the mix.

Agreed, I'm just not sure Canonical can deliver. I hope they succeed, but over the last few years the company has come across to me as a bunch of adolescents entranced with the latest shiny toy only to discard it a few months later when a new shiny comes along.

I concur. You won't catch me dead running Ubuntu on my desktop because of some of the choices the dev team has made since 11.10.

What I think most people are forgetting is that it's Linux. We don't really need Canonical for it to succeed, just a starting point. The work can be forked, the proprietary blobs replaced with open code, etc etc. OEMs don't produce Ubuntu phones? Buy an Android phone and replace the OS. I'm not excited about a particular piece of hardware or a list of apps. I'm excited because it's the first time in the mobile sector where we're offered honest to $DIETY choices in how the device operates instead of being locked into $COMPANY's paradigm of the month.

Some people want a simple platform that handles everything for them and programs are installed at the touch of a button. You already have a plethora of options for that. This could be a platform for the person who's waiting to spend a weekend tearing their OS apart and get it working in exactly the fashion they'd like. Or maybe they want to see how ZFS acts on eMMC for giggles. Or how handy it could be to hop on the WiFi and use a real Samba client to move files from their Windows desktop to their phone without some silly proprietary sync app. Or maybe Intel does crack into the smartphone market and you want to see how Steam does. The possibilities are almost endless without an app store.

 

[jdale]

Caffarius[/url]":22sg1ujz]

PhilGil[/url]":22sg1ujz]

Caffarius[/url]":22sg1ujz]

TimtheTaxMan[/url]":22sg1ujz]Not that I'm opposed to this, but I fail to see the point. Unless the phone is 100% FOSS, you might as well stick with Android. Otherwise you just have another Linux based smartphone with way fewer apps and no greater freedom or transparency.

That's basically what I want, "just another Linux based smartphone" but without the all seeing hand of Google in the mix.

Agreed, I'm just not sure Canonical can deliver. I hope they succeed, but over the last few years the company has come across to me as a bunch of adolescents entranced with the latest shiny toy only to discard it a few months later when a new shiny comes along.

I concur. You won't catch me dead running Ubuntu on my desktop because of some of the choices the dev team has made since 11.10.

What I think most people are forgetting is that it's Linux. We don't really need Canonical for it to succeed, just a starting point. The work can be forked, the proprietary blobs replaced with open code, etc etc. OEMs don't produce Ubuntu phones? Buy an Android phone and replace the OS. I'm not excited about a particular piece of hardware or a list of apps. I'm excited because it's the first time in the mobile sector where we're offered honest to $DIETY choices in how the device operates instead of being locked into $COMPANY's paradigm of the month.

Some people want a simple platform that handles everything for them and programs are installed at the touch of a button. You already have a plethora of options for that. This could be a platform for the person who's waiting to spend a weekend tearing their OS apart and get it working in exactly the fashion they'd like. Or maybe they want to see how ZFS acts on eMMC for giggles. Or how handy it could be to hop on the WiFi and use a real Samba client to move files from their Windows desktop to their phone without some silly proprietary sync app. Or maybe Intel does crack into the smartphone market and you want to see how Steam does. The possibilities are almost endless without an app store.

To a great extent that's also true of WebOS... which is also Linux-based after all... though getting it working on other hardware has not been as easy as you make it sound.

 

[Shugyousha]

Caffarius[/url]":27i6nsdg]

TimtheTaxMan[/url]":27i6nsdg]Not that I'm opposed to this, but I fail to see the point. Unless the phone is 100% FOSS, you might as well stick with Android. Otherwise you just have another Linux based smartphone with way fewer apps and no greater freedom or transparency.

That's basically what I want, "just another Linux based smartphone" but without the all seeing hand of Google in the mix.

You could have a look at www.jolla.com for that. Sadly, their UI is proprietary for now (they said they will open source it eventually) otherwise I would have been tempted myself.

It is only available in Europe as far as I know, so if you are living in NA/Asia you would have to import it.

 

[latreides]

SheldonRoss[/url]":d1uj6hpk]

StarKruzr[/url]":d1uj6hpk]

TimtheTaxMan[/url]":d1uj6hpk]Not that I'm opposed to this, but I fail to see the point. Unless the phone is 100% FOSS, you might as well stick with Android. Otherwise you just have another Linux based smartphone with way fewer apps and no greater freedom or transparency.

There are a couple of points.

* It will be faster than Android on the same hardware in the same way that iOS or Windows Phone is, because it will be running executable code rather than interpreted.

* There is an existing, large, enthusiastic developer and software base for Linux.

That performance-per-clock difference might be worth it all by itself.

I was under the impression that recent versions of Android where moving over to native code execution. I seem to remember reading that somewhere...

You have been able to compile native code on Android for years now using the official NDK. You can even mix and match, if you have speed critical sections those can be written in native code while the rest is in java/dalvik.

 

[BajaPaul]

We will have Android on the desktop before Ubuntu on the phone. that is probably what has MS a bit worried deep down.

 

[Deleted member 192806]

BajaPaul[/url]":3q9724xy]We will have Android on the desktop before Ubuntu on the phone. that is probably what has MS a bit worried deep down.

Except for the tablet/phone-centric nature of the apps.

 

[andrmr]

does it come with the mandatory list of console commands ?

 

[atu30004]

For a real laugh, you need to do your own research as regards Mark Shuttleworth's promises regarding the availability of Ubuntu Touch. I'll tell you the end of the story: 2013; 2014, and now, 2015.
Look it up for yourself. Shutlleworth's BIG problem is that this is a matter of record, for all to see.

This article's subtitle:

"Canonical: Ideal Ubuntu phone user is someone who doesn't need a lot of apps."
(You missed this real gem, didn't you. C'mon, admit it)

Really, now. The next claim will be that Canonical's idea of the "Ideal Ubuntu Phone User" is a totally gullible know-nothing.

Mark Shuttleworth: as one wag said about a similar individual: "There, but for the grace of God, goes God."

 

[jalyst]

sub.

 

[fteoOpty64]

My simple question is: "why so long ?". The original prototype was out long ago and there was nothing really in between. There was a KickStarter programme which did not really take off. Yet, shifting for another year is a really long wait. Canonical might look into using a fork of Kitkat 4.4 and build the GMS layer using Ubuntu services and UI which they have. That might not take as long and might well end up with a better product. No need for Google Play store. Most of the stuff there are not really good anyway. Let apps partners develop and distribute the same way as they do today. Ubuntu has ONE so that can be used too. Multiple ways of loading apps is a great thing for Linux and that should stay. We want freedom and flexibility as well, not control!.

 

[jalyst]

MeR derivatives (Nemo/Sailfish, Plasma etc) are more ideal anyway, Canonical's all about controlling important parts of the stack so they can have a unfair competitive advantage* in the F/OSS world, they're no different to the more closed players in that respect.
Ars sure does love them for some reason though, they get far more coverage than Nemo/Sailfish & some other (more hobbyist) platforms, Ars does cover FFOS & Tizen occasionally, but still nowhere near as much as Ubuntu Touch.
Canonical gets heaps of (& regular) coverage, despite some of those platforms actually "delivering" much more than Ubuntu Touch has thus far...

*no matter how much Mark tries to obfuscate that, it's clear as day for those who've been watching closely & sniffed around

 

[mdubanowski]

Just another cheap os for Chinese phone mfg's to make cheap phones. Look at how hard it's been for Microsoft to gain any traction, Nokia is coming out with an Android phone and their owned by Microsoft!

 

[jalyst]

It's been hard for MS with all their $ for several reasons, not all the same rules/impediments apply to smaller co's who don't have it's baggage.
The odds are still very much against them, but drawing comparisons directly between them & MS's plans for it's sw_stack/ecosystem is silly.
Completely different approaches... (especially WP8x <--> Nemo/Sailfish)