Decrypted: I think we’ve got Westworld all figured out now

In this episode of our TV podcast, we talk to game designer Jane McGonigal about the show's gameplay.

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SmokeTest[/url]":ipzdgogg]

ElectricBlue[/url]":ipzdgogg]This week on techno Lost...

Aside from being a popular mystery TV show, what exactly is the similarity to Lost?

The man in black is Azor Ahai... wait, I'm getting my shows with crazy theories mixed up.

 

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nehinks[/url]":525tf50r]Was that his number 2 (Elsie I think?) that Bernard was having flashbacks to strangling? Was hard to tell even when I went back and rewatched it - too fast and face was distorted. I really hope she still shows back up - quite liked her.

So after this episode I'm left with the impression that Ford still can't straight up replace humans with bots - seems like Bernard was a straight up creation. And he didn't replace the head of QA, just faked the cause of death. I'd be surprised if he couldn't manage a physical duplicate, but I'm guessing he can't really extract the mind/memories of a person well enough to be convincing. Have to manually code to try to be similar (like his boyhood likeness and family presumably).

It was Elsie... though as other TV shows have taught us you probably shouldn't count them out until you see their bodies hit the ground.

 

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PORKFACE[/url]":zvri2x84]Looking like I might be eating some soylent bars—maybe. I'll refine my "I'll eat a soylent bar if multiple timelines is true" with some parameters:

1) If we've been viewing two or more narratives disconnected in time (i.e., every time we see William it's 30 years in the past from Ford et al, and every time we see Ford et al it's 30 years in the future from Teddy), then I'll eat a soylent bar;

2) Multiple timelines != a few things that are clearly flashforwards and repeated incidents, like Dolores remembering she gets gutshot at the farm and then flashing to the next loop forward and using that knowledge to jump on a horse and run away—that's clearly not what we're talking about;

3) If William == MiB I'll eat a soylent bar AND drink a soylent shake, because that'll still make me sad.

The folks who are getting really into the theories (both pro and con) on the subreddit seem like they're getting super-emotional about it. I don't think I'm that emotional about it, but I do think the more convoluted the timeline twists get, the weaker the story gets. It's so interesting with the elements we do see—mucking it up with traditional tired tropey twists lessens a great, clear story.

Fear not—I've got my soylent ready just in case.

At least with the multiple timeline theory I feel like it's been set up in a clever way and if you re-watch the episodes with that in mind it easy to see how it could be true.

I think everyone would agree that multiple timelines means that the parts showing William and Man in Black are in significantly different times, i.e. a span of ~30 years and not just a few days or something. There are clearly additionally flashes where Dolores remembers going out of her basic loop at various other times like when she's shot in the gut or floating in the river but those obviously aren't part of the greater multiple timeline theory.

 

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JonathanSmith[/url]":39dka5qa]

PORKFACE[/url]":39dka5qa]Looking like I might be eating some soylent bars—maybe. I'll refine my "I'll eat a soylent bar if multiple timelines is true" with some parameters

Not fair to refine your goals after new showings Lee.

Either way, I really do disagree with you about the timelines. I think they're really cleverly integrated into the story, and emphasize how the park is looping away, kinda stagnating.

I don't think he's refining the goals, just clarifying what the multiple timeline theory postulated.

 

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caeldan[/url]":3sighflq]

thebonafortuna[/url]":3sighflq]

caeldan[/url]":3sighflq]

thebonafortuna[/url]":3sighflq]Based on the MIB and Ford's scene together a few episodes back, I got the strong impression that Ford is a robot and MIB is aware of that fact. That 'threat' to cut him open, prompting the fast response from Teddy, seemed designed to test both of them.

My elaborate theory is that Ford originally existed as a human, but wound himself so tightly into the park's story line that when he died, everything quickly went to shit. The people running the park realized they had a problem and quickly made a robot-Ford to straighten everything out, and here we are today. It's possible Ford doesn't even know he's a robot, but maybe MIB was around when it happened and as kept quiet. It's obvious he was emotionally attached to the park when it had it's 'trouble' back in the day, so he might be invested in keeping the charade going.

What doesn't make sense about William == MIB is that William is not in a financial position to be saving the park right now.

Well, he is about to marry Logan's sister and it would appear their family owns whatever company is about to buy the park. So he's marrying into money at least, assuming he leaves the park and continues on life as planned.

And depending on what happens in the park between him and Logan, it's possible somehow he supplants Logan in the corporate structure on their return to the real world.

Yes that occurred to me. Was originally typing that as a caveat but thought the comment was getting long enough (also why I didn't give more evidence for thinking Ford is a robot).

But when you think about it, things would need to happen FAST for the scenario you spelled out above to factor into our story here. If the two time FRAMES are indeed happening, it stands to reason that from a narrative perspective we're going to witness the cataclysmic event (Maeve raising an army?) inside the park that's been referenced several times at this point. So that means it happens when William is still in the park, presumably on this first visit (it would be odd to shift to a second-or-later visit mid-story). So if it happens during this first visit, he'd need to see it, leave the park, carry on with his marriage, see his wife perish, somehow inherit the entire company, and then spend his inherited fortune in pretty short order for the above to have played out. I just don't see it.

Maeve/Mesa Hub activities are in the present though, and are Cataclysmic event 2.0.

So basically the overall timeline would be this:
1. Logan and William visit park
2. William/Dolores stuff happens. (Arnold may or may not be dead already at this point)
3. William returns to the real world and marries into the Delos family
4. Delos the company buys the park
5. William takes over control of Delos somehow or another
6. Mrs William dies and William returns to the park as the MiB
7. MiB kills Maeve the homesteader
8a. MiB returns again a year later and starts the MiB/Teddy chain of events
8b. Maeve Revolution starts
8c. Bernard/Ford events are occurring too.

Interesting. This is getting hard to keep track of. Do we have definitive proof that Maeve is 'current' time frame? (i.e. we'd have to see her in present day with MIB to confirm that, yes?)

We see her with Teddy, in the new Mesa facility (which is quite black now that I think of it), and with the techs who see Elsie. All of those are in the present.

 

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thebonafortuna[/url]":3v7fm33p]We probably won't come to an agreement, but does that at least make sense?

I dunno, it seems like a semantic debate over "timeline" versus "timeframe" when both are clearly being used colloquially in every conversation to mean the exact same thing is like the least-interesting argument that it's possible to be having over this show.

I disagree. This is the internet and no argument is too pedantic and I will argue to the death with anyone who thinks differently.