Comcast admits data cap meter blunder, charges wrong customer for overage

Comcast said he used 120GB of data while on a multi-week vacation.

Read the whole story

 

[JTD121]

guifa[/url]":1tcse1by]All the while, Marsha Blackburn is trying to prevent Tennessee's homegrown municipal fiber service from expanding.

I mean, on the hand you have Comcast that probably maxes at 100 Mbps except in Chattanooga and costs $100+/mo and sends you to overseas call centers and won't do diddly squat for you unless you get a journalist to pay attention. On the other hand you have EPB that maxes at 10 Gbps (yes, G) with no install costs and 100 Mbps for around $60, all call centers are local with excellent customer service. I mean, why would anyone want to stifle Comcast's business in favor of EPB?

It's actually really hilarious seeing Comcast's advertising because down here in Chattanooga because they know they literally can't compete. They even tried announcing they were planning on raising speeds to 2Gbps (but with a massive install cost) and EPB a month later was like "yeah, so we're doing 10 Gpbs. Available today. No install cost".

Seriously, honestly. I would back a Kickstarter (or other form of crowdfunding) to get this kind of business off the ground and in as many homes as possible. Provided they don't grow so big to become the next Comcast, at least in business practices (oversubscribing, terrible customer service, etc, etc).

All it takes is one, guys. We all throw in $10-20 and we could probably rival the market cap of Comcast (whatever that is).

They say I'm a dreamer......

 

[fryhole]

Oleg, a programmer from Tennessee who prefers that we not publish his last name,

I'm sorry, but really how many people named Oleg live in Tennessee ? Seriously ! This is not a common Tennessee name.

 

[Deleted member 192806]

adipose[/url]":2ij5e4ff]That's ridiculous that they measure based on mac address. There are several more ways to identify each subscriber, and the mac address can change. They make it so hard to activate a new modem, and you have to provide a bunch of unique ids, and presumably after that they know exactly who you are.

How do you change the MAC on the cable side of the modem?

 

[Deleted member 192806]

AliceWonder[/url]":3azd858e]Okay, whether or not I agree with the concept of data caps, clearly comcast can't be trusted to have them.

Maybe much like with gas pumps, the government would ensure the meters would be accurate.

 

[cmacd]

Ostracus[/url]":11kay05p]

AliceWonder[/url]":11kay05p]Okay, whether or not I agree with the concept of data caps, clearly comcast can't be trusted to have them.

Maybe much like with gas pumps, the government would ensure the meters would be accurate.

You'd be surprised just how often gas pumps are off.

I mean, there's a requirement, and government inspections, of course. But a very high percentage fail on a regular basis in some areas.

 

[Deleted member 14629]

This is literally why I wrote an appeal to the FCC and my local cable board insisting that metered usage must have an on-site meter, just like water and gas.

 

[zAmboni]

Good thing Ars posted this. I just got onto my account and checked my data usage and this is what I saw:

Hrmmm a 50% increase from Sept/October to November (the Nov number is 298GB)???

Well we cut the Cable TV cord recently, but that was November 11th. But we really haven't been using streaming (Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Prime) any more than usual...so what gives.

I just looked at the equipment that is tied to our account and this is what I find:

Those top two cable modems are not mine.

Somehow turning in 3 cable boxes turned into them adding two spurious cable modems to my account and I have a feeling that the data from those two have been added to my monthly usage totals.....but curiously my data usage for this month seems to be in line for Sept/Oct.

How can you trust the numbers that Comcast gives if they cant even get the equipment associated with an account right. At least on my account it is showing equipment that isn't mine so that may be a likely explanation. If they can add random cable modems to my account, who is saying that they aren't adding random cable modems to other people's accounts, but they aren't showing up on their account equipment pages?

 

[Deleted member 192806]

Happysin[/url]":19bt9apw]This is literally why I wrote an appeal to the FCC and my local cable board insisting that metered usage must have an on-site meter, just like water and gas.

One thing of note in the article. Some routers DO come standard with usage meters. One doesn't always have to flash their router.

 

[_fluffy]

adipose[/url]":3if54xdu]That's ridiculous that they measure based on mac address. There are several more ways to identify each subscriber, and the mac address can change. They make it so hard to activate a new modem, and you have to provide a bunch of unique ids, and presumably after that they know exactly who you are.

I had a similar issue with them, although not one which impacted me financially. I had a DOCSIS 2 modem, and they informed me that I needed to upgrade to DOCSIS 3. I opted to self-upgrade, and activated the new modem and figured that would deactivate the old one (which I sold on Craigslist or something).

Fast-forward a year later, and they started to call me once a month about my DOCSIS 2 modem and tried to browbeat me into "upgrading" to one of their crappy rental ones with the built-in xfinitywifi access point. I finally gave them a call and found out that somehow the old modem was still active, on my account - and they had no record of the new one, either. The CSR claimed that I'd never activated the new modem, and I asked how can that be if I've been online with it all this time?

Anyway eventually this got sorted out on my end, although I imagine that whoever bought it from me had a bunch of WTF moments when he suddenly lost his Internet access (which he was probably paying for but never actually activated a modem on, or something).

 

[fryhole]

Oleg said he filed a complaint with the Federal Communications Commission, but there’s no rule that would specifically limit or prevent Comcast’s data caps. The FCC could evaluate whether the caps discourage competition from online video services that offer alternatives to Comcast’s cable TV, but it hasn’t made any move to do so.

He probably needs to complain about the fact that Comcast is falsly accusing its customers of something they never did and trying to charge them for it.

 

[silverdemon]

700c[/url]"uebzshc]Does the sample size of 55 bother anyone else? It seems an incredibly small number considering the total number of subscribers. I'm also curious if Comcast was aware of which IP's were being monitored or if it was a blind sample. They're also rather vague as to what constitutes billable traffic, am I responsible for every ping scan or random bit that hits my IP or only the traffic that I initiate?

I still have a sliver of hope, a competing fiber to the home provider announced they are entering our market area. Hopefully they'll actually have availability of their product before the heat death of the universe.

Edit, Grammar.

^VERY MUCH THIS!

 

[iolinux333]

I can't read this stuff any more. It just makes me angry.

 

[Smeghead]

"mistake". Presumably in the same way as VW's diesel firmware shenanigans were a mistake.

Rhonin[/url]":2pda33l7]

Trogmor[/url]":2pda33l7]There should be severe recourse and punishment out of this.

But there wont be, just like with the wrong names on bills, they will get away with it when you cannot switch to another service.

Hope it bites them in the ass 10 fold. or 20, maybe a case can be made for 30? oh wait, that's probably capped at 10 fold too..

Add a worse aspect: Comcast has no current means to even tell you what is using your data. They have (or claim to have no - which I do believe) no means of detailing usage other than the address.

Well, to play devil's advocate, do you really want your ISP to track your usage that closely? To do that they'd have to be doing packet inspection on everything you asked them to send and receive on your behalf.

Do you seriously want your ISP collating knowledge of your every activity on the 'net?

 

[bittermann]

Ostracus[/url]":h26awggo]

AliceWonder[/url]":h26awggo]Okay, whether or not I agree with the concept of data caps, clearly comcast can't be trusted to have them.

Maybe much like with gas pumps, the government would ensure the meters would be accurate.

If you're going to offer strict metered bandwidth usage to your customers then you better dam well make sure the monthly numbers are at least accurate.

 

[williane]

guifa[/url]":3ekbalge]They even tried announcing they were planning on raising speeds to 2Gbps (but with a massive install cost) and EPB a month later was like "yeah, so we're doing 10 Gpbs. Available today. No install cost".

Only thing better would have been if EPB waited until they spent the money and were about to roll out the 2Gbps service. Then drop that announcement on them.

 

[GhostRed]

Oleg, a programmer from Tennessee who prefers that we not publish his last name...

Because there's so many people named "Oleg" in Tennessee?

 

[cmacd]

bittermann[/url]":3s4d2reu]

Ostracus[/url]":3s4d2reu]

AliceWonder[/url]":3s4d2reu]Okay, whether or not I agree with the concept of data caps, clearly comcast can't be trusted to have them.

Maybe much like with gas pumps, the government would ensure the meters would be accurate.

If you're going to offer strict metered bandwidth usage to your customers then you better dam well make sure the monthly numbers are at least accurate.

Especially given the threshold billing method...if a meter being 5% off leads to a 5% change in bill, honestly I'm not overly concerned. It's an issue, but whatever.

But if a meter being 1% off can lead to a 20% change in bill? That's a bigger deal to me.

 

[Tiernoc]

Comcast CEO Brian Roberts has compared the caps and overage charges to buying gas or electricity, saying that the more you use, the more you pay.

If Comcast and these ISPs keep barking out this angle, they will have no one else to blame when they ARE regulated as an utility.

I look forward to my baseline $7.89 / mo. Internet access cost, plus ~$5.00 for usage.

 

[Tiernoc]

cmacd[/url]":28mo342f]

Ostracus[/url]":28mo342f]

AliceWonder[/url]":28mo342f]Okay, whether or not I agree with the concept of data caps, clearly comcast can't be trusted to have them.

Maybe much like with gas pumps, the government would ensure the meters would be accurate.

You'd be surprised just how often gas pumps are off.

I mean, there's a requirement, and government inspections, of course. But a very high percentage fail on a regular basis in some areas.

Citation please? It's my understanding that pumps are VERY tightly enforced, and are pretty damn regularly checked for compliance.

 

[cmacd]

Tiernoc[/url]":2xscqutt]

cmacd[/url]":2xscqutt]

Ostracus[/url]":2xscqutt]

AliceWonder[/url]":2xscqutt]Okay, whether or not I agree with the concept of data caps, clearly comcast can't be trusted to have them.

Maybe much like with gas pumps, the government would ensure the meters would be accurate.

You'd be surprised just how often gas pumps are off.

I mean, there's a requirement, and government inspections, of course. But a very high percentage fail on a regular basis in some areas.

Citation please? It's my understanding that pumps are VERY tightly enforced, and are pretty damn regularly checked for compliance.

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas ... 588193.php

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local ... 66363.html

Just the first two stories I found.

From a skim, as I expected, it seems like double-digit percentages of gas stations have pumps that shortchange the customer. These are found on inspection (can be up to two years apart), and corrected, of course. The Houston story was interesting because it shows just how often the same chain/station can continue to violate without any serious repercussions.

 

[Deleted member 192806]

Smeghead[/url]":zyy7ujl5]"mistake". Presumably in the same way as VW's diesel firmware shenanigans were a mistake.

Rhonin[/url]":zyy7ujl5]

Trogmor[/url]":zyy7ujl5]There should be severe recourse and punishment out of this.

But there wont be, just like with the wrong names on bills, they will get away with it when you cannot switch to another service.

Hope it bites them in the ass 10 fold. or 20, maybe a case can be made for 30? oh wait, that's probably capped at 10 fold too..

Add a worse aspect: Comcast has no current means to even tell you what is using your data. They have (or claim to have no - which I do believe) no means of detailing usage other than the address.

Well, to play devil's advocate, do you really want your ISP to track your usage that closely? To do that they'd have to be doing packet inspection on everything you asked them to send and receive on your behalf.

Do you seriously want your ISP collating knowledge of your every activity on the 'net?

Modems already count in the form of codewords.

 

[THavoc]

Tiernoc[/url]":cf9inrrl]

cmacd[/url]":cf9inrrl]

Ostracus[/url]":cf9inrrl]

AliceWonder[/url]":cf9inrrl]Okay, whether or not I agree with the concept of data caps, clearly comcast can't be trusted to have them.

Maybe much like with gas pumps, the government would ensure the meters would be accurate.

You'd be surprised just how often gas pumps are off.

I mean, there's a requirement, and government inspections, of course. But a very high percentage fail on a regular basis in some areas.

Citation please? It's my understanding that pumps are VERY tightly enforced, and are pretty damn regularly checked for compliance.

It doesn't seem to be very high:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_dispenser

In the United States, each one of the 50 states has their own Department of Weights and Measure. Each one of those Departments of Weights and Measure are the agencies with the authority to actually do the testing, issuing fines, etc. For example, In 2007 error rates were found by Arizona department of Weights and Measure, 6 over 48%, 6 more over 4%, 8 more over 3%.

 

[Pit Spawn]

"94.6 percent accurate."

Wonder if they would be ok if my bill payment was only 94.6% accurate...

 

[remydlc]

as if the internet isn't expensive as is. They are just exploiting their monopoly real hard. They know people dont have much options.

Looking at my usage, almost 700GB during the past 30 days (i have kids), even with the discount we get ($10+ a month - Im an employee. They acquired the company i work for), im still gonna be paying more than i would pay U-verse unlimited plan. i would assume that a regular customer is going to get billed about $80-110 a month. I hope this come and bite them on the ass sooner rather than later.

 

[bbbobbb]

zAmboni[/url]":395bgoc3]Good thing Ars posted this. I just got onto my account and checked my data usage and this is what I saw:

Hrmmm a 50% increase from Sept/October to November (the Nov number is 298GB)???

Well we cut the Cable TV cord recently, but that was November 11th. But we really haven't been using streaming (Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Prime) any more than usual...so what gives.

I just looked at the equipment that is tied to our account and this is what I find:

Those top two cable modems are not mine.

Somehow turning in 3 cable boxes turned into them adding two spurious cable modems to my account and I have a feeling that the data from those two have been added to my monthly usage totals.....but curiously my data usage for this month seems to be in line for Sept/Oct.

How can you trust the numbers that Comcast gives if they cant even get the equipment associated with an account right. At least on my account it is showing equipment that isn't mine so that may be a likely explanation. If they can add random cable modems to my account, who is saying that they aren't adding random cable modems to other people's accounts, but they aren't showing up on their account equipment pages?

Nope, you are assuming that COMCAST describing your ex-cable TV boxes as cable modems is correct, it's not. DCX3200 is a set-top Motorola HD cable box. Same for the other non-cable modem, that too is a cable TV box.

Those boxes are not counted in your data usage, they do have MAC addresses so they show up in poorly written code.

If you never had cable tv then this would be a different problem but still doesn't count up to your data cap.

What does the stand-alone application "Xfinity Usage Meter" show for your account?

P.S. COMCAST is the $#%^^%$#, I am not defending them.

 

[Vernontwinkie]

I used to work for an ISP that uses DOCSIS modems, so I'm very confused by Comcast's results on this. How can they possibly have his HFC MAC address mixed up with another one? That's the way modems are activated and able to get online. I don't see any way that either he, or the unnamed customer, would have a functioning modem. Unless they both activated their modems at the exact same time, they wouldn't have worked.

 

[the_frakker]

Asten77[/url]":rx4ucb6f]

the_frakker[/url]":rx4ucb6f]My choices are AT&T, Comcast or cellular. I was Comcast for a decade until AT&T Uverse became available. I've had Uverse for the last 2+ years and it's been horrible. The only positive thing I can say is that it was (mostly) consistent billing.

As a counterpoint, I've had uverse for, I'd say at least 5 years across 2 addresses. Aside from generally piss poor speeds compared to cable (18-24Mb/s down, 1-2 up depending on package), I have zero complaints whatsoever. No caps as far as I can tell. Plus, when I moved, they send someone out to install it free and even gave me gift cards for moving my account. I find them overpriced, especially considering the lower speeds, but I don't think it's ever been down on the internet side, and the TV side went down one time when the DVR box died - and they overnighted a new one.

I really, really pine for faster internet though, and think about going over to Comcast, but then I remember why I canceled them in the first place, and read these stories, and the urge subsides.

I got gift cards, I got free months of service and yet I am still unhappy. I won't go into all the details because it's too much. When it came to the service, AT&T was basically charging me for Uverse and providing me with DSL. I never got the speeds I was rated for and forget about streaming any video past 7pm. I spoke with technical support on several occasions. I had techs out at my house. AT&T could not resolve the congestion issues being caused by them installing DSL equipment.

AT&T claims they have fiber in my neighborhood. However, they connect to that fiber through DSL connections in the home. And the fiber is only down the road where all this DSL cable meets up. I do not agree with how they've promoted their service and how badly they can manage it in my area.

As I said there were other issues related to the service and customer service that lead to my decision to switch back to Comcast. In fact, AT&T didn't question me about my cancellation. The phone call took 9 minutes. It was clear from the reps remarks that they had notes on my account about all my problems and that they were not surprised to see me go. The cancellation was great customer service lol

 

[phoenix_rizzen]

Wickwick[/url]":17vsmyjr]So, if I change the broadcast MAC address in my router my bandwidth won't count to my cap? Seriously? That's on-par with having a DRM scheme that can be defeated with a felt-tip pen.

No, you'd have to change the MAC address on the cable modem, not the router plugged into the cable modem. They do all their accounting on the external interface of the cable modem. Good luck changing that one ...

 

[DarthSidious]

Wickwick[/url]":2b2285bh]So, if I change the broadcast MAC address in my router my bandwidth won't count to my cap? Seriously? That's on-par with having a DRM scheme that can be defeated with a felt-tip pen.

I understood that reference!

 

[cmacd]

THavoc[/url]":1f255me3]

Tiernoc[/url]":1f255me3]

cmacd[/url]":1f255me3]

Ostracus[/url]":1f255me3]

AliceWonder[/url]":1f255me3]Okay, whether or not I agree with the concept of data caps, clearly comcast can't be trusted to have them.

Maybe much like with gas pumps, the government would ensure the meters would be accurate.

You'd be surprised just how often gas pumps are off.

I mean, there's a requirement, and government inspections, of course. But a very high percentage fail on a regular basis in some areas.

Citation please? It's my understanding that pumps are VERY tightly enforced, and are pretty damn regularly checked for compliance.

It doesn't seem to be very high:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_dispenser

In the United States, each one of the 50 states has their own Department of Weights and Measure. Each one of those Departments of Weights and Measure are the agencies with the authority to actually do the testing, issuing fines, etc. For example, In 2007 error rates were found by Arizona department of Weights and Measure, 6 over 48%, 6 more over 4%, 8 more over 3%.

Wow, that's a terrible citation from Wikipedia. One reason to always check the source. I was curious because of the lack of units, so I followed it.

What the article cited actually said:

Among some of the major offenders, according to The Arizona Republic's record search:


� Six high-flow diesel pumps at Sunmart in Ehrenberg were off from 120 to 200 cubic inches in May 2007.


� Six pumps at Superpumper in Scottsdale had discrepancies from 10 to 32 cubic inches in April.


� Eight pumps at a Valero station in Phoenix dispensed from 7 to 17 cubic inches less per gallon than the meter registered.

So those were the numbers at three specific gas stations, not statewide.

The actual number that should be included in Wikipedia is 5%, which is the number statewide that were accurate per that article (and nationwide per a cited survey). Which is lower than the other two stories I cited, so there's that.

EDIT: I might point out that this is roughly the same level of accuracy Comcast is claiming.

 

[cmacd]

Pit Spawn[/url]":50rvvz36]"94.6 percent accurate."

Wonder if they would be ok if my bill payment was only 94.6% accurate...

No more than they'd be okay with you paying "up to" the $70 you owe them.

Such is the nature of power imbalance in business.

 

[Kelledin]

Honestly, crap like this is why I would not go with Comcast for anything, even if they were the cable provider in my area. Unfortunately, we may soon have no choice in the matter if every ISP starts following this practice. Currently I'm on an 50Mbit/sec TWC connection in Dallas, still uncapped (thanks to the brutal Congressional-level backlash from the horrendous Beaumont data-cap experiment).

This goes to something that is universal with metered services of any kind: if you're going to use meter data to calculate your customers' bills, you had better be god damn certain of the veracity of your meter data. Fudging the meter numbers--or even leaving them prone to error through plain-and-simple incompetence--opens you up to charges for billing fraud. I actually work on a series of network-assurance products, and in at least one case our S&D guys have had to explicitly, sternly warn customers about that when we found them misusing certain (documented low-accuracy) stats data from our equipment for exactly this purpose.

Somehow, Comcast is arrogant enough to think they can screw up like this and not get in hot water. Hopefully someone can bitch-slap (or better yet, bitch-frag) the fear of God into them. Question is, would the FCC or the FTC be the more appropriate agency to do the slapping?

 

[bubbers214]

It's incredibly frustrating that Comcast can keep telling its customers that we should treat its product like a utility but they neither offer a resource that there is a "finite" number of, nor are they actually regulated from a profit perspective like all utilities are.

You can't tell me that you want me to treat it like a utility only when it's beneficial for you as a company.

 

[truthyboy15]

comcast the company that never fails to destroy you with bogus fees.

 

[Oskarmatz]

I would love to see a Venn diagram of:

- the locations where data overage charges are in effect
- the locations where there is a comparable service available from a competitor.

I'm guessing the intersection is null.

 

[Blue Adept]

Statistical[/url]":2z7jpkiq]

I would be curious to know how much comcast pays for 300GB/month worth of connecting to other ISP's.

Comcast is large enough they have peering arrangements with other networks so they pay nothing....

Thank you for this excellent answer.

The truth is that running their network and maintaining it does cost them SOMETHING. However, the relationship between their answers and what they are doing with caps is pretty weak. They're charging more money for caps because they can, simple as that.

I have no problem believing the 95% accuracy answer. It's a fine answer as long you aren't being billed extra for being in the other 5%.

 

[sausagecoma]

Fuzzy math and sheer distrust might suggest that there's a daily penance of 10GB (use it or lose it)

One can dream of such despicable things.

 

[marsilies]

Statistical[/url]":ba47ijge]

I would be curious to know how much comcast pays for 300GB/month worth of connecting to other ISP's.

Comcast is large enough they have peering arrangements with other networks so they pay nothing.

To be fair, Comcast does pay some transit, for less than 1% of overall traffic:

http://meincmagazine.com/information-tech ... ackbone/2/

Comcast has built a large enough network of its own that it now peers with the Tier 1 companies. It does buy transit, but for less than one percent of its overall traffic load. That mostly addresses the small amount of traffic coming to and from overseas, [Barry Tishgart, the vice president of Comcast Wholesale network services] said.

Also, there are costs with keeping their nationwide network up and running, but obviously that also has to be cheaper than paying transit, otherwise they'd let someone else handle it.

Also, keep in mind that only a small percentage of their customers, only 8%, hit 300GB. So they're not even paying that much for most accounts. For at least 70%, they're paying for less than 100GB of usage.

http://www.techtimes.com/articles/10372 ... tomers.htm

A Comcast spokesperson spoke with Miami Herald about the plan, stating that the ISP’s “medium data use” among customers is 40GB per month, and that “about 70 percent of our customers use less than 100 GB per month.” Ultimately, Comcast says this change will not affect 92 percent of its subscribers.

So, with average use at 40GB, and $0.02 per GB, that's only $0.80 on average per customer.

 

[mbp999]

Lee L[/url]":1u19km2s]How is this not running afoul of a state consumer protection agency or Federal Trade Commision? This is just like a gas pump or scale at the deli. If you change based on a meter, you need to have that meter be accurate.

Yep, someone needs to do the math and file a class action. That *should* get their attention.

 

[Jaysyn]

I bet a class action lawsuit is off the table too since they probably have an arbitration clause in their agreement.