Cisco backpedals after uproar, drops cloud from default router setting

Cisco: Our cloud isn’t for snooping on customers’ porn habits.

Read the whole story

 

[StillNotATroll]

This is why we need something like http://zrouter.org/ - so even with these silly "cloud connect" things it all still works.

 

[Max Headroom]

Wow! How to loose market share in one easy step. Note to self... strike Cisco from approved vendor list.

 

[TechGeek]

Sorry, but I still don't trust a device that may update itself even if I don't want it to. There is no reason why this can't be rolled out later with less public scrutiny. I wouldn't trust them any further than I can throw my router.

 

[seraphimcaduto]

I wonder what genius came up with the TOS for that firmware update?

 

[FrisbeeFreek]

Cisco now has an internal definition of "Fiasco". Basically a bunch of Techies, Marketing dudes, and Lawyers each separately added their input to this joke, and now they are the punchline.

 

[ngativ]

Stay away from my porn

 

[kapinga]

That seems to indicate that Cisco truly intends to make Connect Cloud an opt-in rather than an opt-out service. But since Cisco’s blog didn’t specifically promise access to the browser-based management console after future automatic updates, we’ve asked the company for clarification and will update this post if we hear back.

I read their behavior (pulling the most recent version from the auto-update queue) as being a quick fix while they make some changes to the software, not as the "opt-in" mechanism. I bet, once they've adjusted the firmware appropriately, they'll push another update that once again asks you to create a CCC account.

The question is, what will the response be when you decline? And, I wonder, how will the ToS change?

 

[nibb]

If you could not access the console locally with your browser and I assume the cloud interface requires internet, how in the world would you configure the router if something goes wrong?

The only times I access the interface is exactly when im having some connection issue I need to fix or diagnose. How in the world came up with this stupid idea?

It seems we are all in the cloud idiot world where everyone just wants to do something cloud based. Some things work just fine how they do currently, and some things need to work offline.

I also don´t accept anything that downloads updates without my express permission. Its not the first time updates can be a huge drawback, we saw it with antivirus and every possible thing, it only requires 1 update to go wrong and it will cause a huge mess and damage for all the people that have updates automatically turned on.

Also, Cisco must have the brightest engineers in the world. Why in the world would you manage your router admin interface from the Internet? First of all, if you want to access your router from the net, outside the local network, I don´t know a single router, even those cheap 20$ that does not has this feature. All admin routers have the option for remote log in. And even if you turn it on, I don´t know a single person that actually used this. Usually when you need to log in to the router, its because you need to configure something affect your network, where the router is plugged in, so there is absolutely almost no advantage on doing this remotely, even for those that want this, all routers allow this already. Of course you must be a complete idiot to leave this on, so anyone can hack into your router remotely. This must be the most idiotic idea a company has ever designed. Lets us centralize millions of home router interfaces into a public place, the internet, in Cisco servers. Wow ! I cannot even imagine how they came up with this. Even things like LastPass where already hacked, and honestly Cisco is none to be very insecure. I would not trust them my home router ever.

 

[ounkeo]

the terms of use are an absolute joke. pushing it out without user acceptance, changing access method and changing control point... i don't know, but this doesn't feel at all like it was "unintentional".

This was an attempt to "all your base are belong to us" and hoping noone would actually really notice.


then, of course, there's also this little problem with the whole thing...

If you could not access the console locally with your browser and I assume the cloud interface requires internet, how in the world would you configure the router if something goes wrong?

 

[chunderbunny]

I really don't see how CCC even benefits Cisco.
a) It will cost them money to maintain the servers.
b) If the servers go go down millions of customers will be pissed.
c) If they really do collect data about what their customers are doing it makes them subject to a fantastic amount of data protection regulation (especially in the EU) which is expensive when you have to demonstrate compliance to the regulators.

So, yeah. It doesn't benefit customers, and it doesn't benefit Cisco. WTF were they thinking?

 

[Bob.Brown]

Automagic updates when not enabled? Thanks but no thanks.
DD-WRT? You said it, kiddo!

 

[draziguy]

The original article stated that if the internet connection fails, the user is presented with the old administration panel. So if the problem is lack of internet, instead of connecting to CCC, it fails back to the local router panel.

 

[zk78751]

It's my understanding that the cloud applications might include something like a Dropbox or some other such application that would integrate with the router (somehow). This is why the anti-porn/pirate TOS is included. You guys are nuts to think Cisco cares what traffic flows through your router.

I have the EA4500 myself and was caught off guard by the cloud configuration change, but it's not that big of a deal as long as the link is encrypted and it's shown that it's better than a local admin console. (I'm skeptical) The moral of the story is Linksys should have had the cloud connect ready to use before selling the routers, so there would be no surprises.

Also, I do access my router from the net when I need to enable a service to my home network. (this bulletin goes out to the previous smart guy who thinks he knows network engineering and has never met "anyone" who's logged in to their home router from the outside.).

 

[fluxtatic]

I really don't see how CCC even benefits Cisco.
a) It will cost them money to maintain the servers.
b) If the servers go go down millions of customers will be pissed.
c) If they really do collect data about what their customers are doing it makes them subject to a fantastic amount of data protection regulation (especially in the EU) which is expensive when you have to demonstrate compliance to the regulators.

So, yeah. It doesn't benefit customers, and it doesn't benefit Cisco. WTF were they thinking?

Just a guess - that they intended to actually track usage and sell the data? Sleazy, sure, but how does this make sense otherwise? The only other thing I can come up with is a pointy-haired boss deciding Cisco needs to get on "this cloud business" and pushed and pushed to get it done, with no understanding of what he was asking for or that it would piss off every. single. customer.

 

[yurdle]

As an IT Grunt for lots of local small businesses, this is arguably too little, but it is certainly too late. I can never set up a Cisco/Linksys router for a client again, at least until the press on them changes massively. I know they won't be smarting from my $1500/year or so, but it's not about them. I can't put that shit anywhere in good conscience.

Ballsy move considering how much competition they have..

 

[Abresh]

As an IT Grunt for lots of local small businesses, this is arguably too little, but it is certainly too late. I can never set up a Cisco/Linksys router for a client again, at least until the press on them changes massively. I know they won't be smarting from my $1500/year or so, but it's not about them. I can't put that shit anywhere in good conscience.

Ballsy move considering how much competition they have..

Not ballsy.... stupid move and it's going to cost them. I was thinking of getting a new router from them in order to replace my old Wireless-G router with something more up-to-date that supports the wireless-N on my new devices.

Not now.

 

[tkioz]

Last I checked (most) "porn" is legal in the vast majority of first world nations (i.e the target market for these devices)... I can see them trying it on with piracy... but porn? who the hell are they to judge someone else's perfectly legal usage!?

 

[chaos215bar2]

If you could not access the console locally with your browser and I assume the cloud interface requires internet, how in the world would you configure the router if something goes wrong?

This has been answered many times already.

Though the idea of cloud router configuration site is questionable, Cisco does actually have some idea what they're doing. When the online management tool is unavailable, you still get access to basic settings directly through the router. It's enough to get the router online, but little else.

 

[SeanBlader]

This whole situation I nothing but a huge flaming pile of clusterfu--, and Cisco deserves all the abuse and more from letting this happen. And let this a be a warning to companies everywhere, think about the crap you're about to do to the people who pay you.

 

[JimmiG]

Glad I have the good old E4500...

 

[Abresh]

This whole situation I nothing but a huge flaming pile of clusterfu--, and Cisco deserves all the abuse and more from letting this happen. And let this a be a warning to companies everywhere, think about the crap you're about to do to the people who pay you.

Exactly right. The bottom line is that if a thing doesn't HAVE to be online for a compelling reason, it shouldn't be online or require online.

EA, take note!

The bottom line is that CCC should be an opt-in and there should ALWAYS be a way to totally opt-out of the online stuff and simply use a FULLY-FEATURED control panel on your router.

 

[apocryphal triptych]

/rant on

Why does everything have to be a damn service? If I want to purchase a router, I'll look for a router, not some "cloud" crap. Same with external hard drives.
I am so sick of every vendor trying to take things off my local machine and put it on the "cloud". Pay $20 for an HD "cloud" movie I have to stream every time I want to watch it? No. That's worse than DRM. They have full control and can just pull the plug at any moment.

/rant off

 

[schnee]

Too fucking late, replacement router ordered, Cisco is going into the trash

 

[MyGaffer]

When I first read this story I honestly couldn't believe it was accurate. Use their cloud service, with all the attendant security and privacy concerns, or lose all local advanced management of your router? Ridiculous!

I don't know what to think about their quick about face. Did they think they would just sneak this through? Did they think people honestly wouldn't care?

Personally this had put me off Cisco routers for home use. Some of our local small business clients use Cisco business routers and they have been by and large reliable and very functional. I have decided to take a wait and see approach before I sell any of my residential customer's any Cisco routers though, I'm going to wait and see if they try and pull this kind of BS again.

 

[Ad Blocker]

So people are still using stock firmware? Why? Tomato is just better. (or DD-WRT if you swing that way)

 

[infusednz]

As if Cisco wasn't losing enough business already.

I was actually notified of this over 1.5 years ago. They told me this was coming. So I'd actually planned ahead. Most of my stuff is MicroTik now.

 

[Mondrian]

My take on what the thought process was:

1) Sales revenue for home routers is down or slowing
2) Market research shows that most people that want a router already have one and are satisfied with 802.11g speeds and see no need for 802.11ac or even 802.11n.
3) Management dictates that a solution be found. "Why can Apple make money on the sale of the device and the content afterwards? We carry 99% of the traffic on the internet! How can we monetize that?"
4) Marketing strategist comes up with Connect Cloud to monetize usage after selling the device. To make it work, it has to be on as many devices as possible, so they decide to push this to all capable devices instead of just trying to sell it on new units.

the rest you know.

 

[mrsilver]

So people are still using stock firmware? Why? Tomato is just better. (or DD-WRT if you swing that way)

Even though I'm in a household that has 1 desktop, 2 laptops, an iPad, 2 smartphones, a Wii and a HTPC - our needs just aren't complicated enough to warrant the effort to change the firmware on the router.

Mind you, I'm using the free router my ISP gave me, rather than a Cisco one - however the Linksys I had previously was just as adequate for the job.

 

[kcisobderf]

My take on what the thought process was:

1) Sales revenue for home routers is down or slowing
2) Market research shows that most people that want a router already have one and are satisfied with 802.11g speeds and see no need for 802.11ac or even 802.11n.
3) Management dictates that a solution be found. "Why can Apple make money on the sale of the device and the content afterwards? We carry 99% of the traffic on the internet! How can we monetize that?"
4) Marketing strategist comes up with Connect Cloud to monetize usage after selling the device. To make it work, it has to be on as many devices as possible, so they decide to push this to all capable devices instead of just trying to sell it on new units.

the rest you know.

AND, the NSA won't need to maintain closets in AT&T facilities. Just take a Cisco VP out to lunch!

 

[vczilla]

So people are still using stock firmware? Why? Tomato is just better. (or DD-WRT if you swing that way)

For the same reason people don't like to jailbreak iStuff they are stu... I mean they can't be bothered.

On another note this whole Cisco debacle sucks and if I had one of those routers I would sure as hell use an alternative firmware.

And people vote with their wallets so shady shit like this tends to self-correct in the long run anyway and Cisco knows it.

Once again the world's karma is preserved.

 

[Hurda]

Sorry, but I still don't trust a device that may update itself even if I don't want it to.

Then you don't want to read up on "TR-069".

 

[Strabo]

Yeah, sorry Cisco. This is one of those colossal fuck-ups that it doesn't matter how far you walk it back, you're still persona non grata. Permanently. I've bought half a dozen Linksys routers for myself in the last 15 years. And probably sold another two dozen to friends/relatives who have asked what they should buy. No more after this.

So, who gets my money now? Asus? Dlink? Netgear? Any recommendations, guys?

 

[Bartbarian]

They ban (legal!) porn out of fear of getting sued by their own employee's: if one is viewing your statistics and sees the records of that funky porn you watch they might try to sue Cisco for exposing them to it at their workplace.

Internet for home-users without porn.. really? It's like selling cars without wheels! This will be fun for families with exploring teenagers (and sexually frustrated dads), that will be some interesting connection help-desking

 

[jasonvalhalla]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding things. But isn't it insane that the device that allows you to access the internet needs an active connection to be configured? To my limited wisdom, routers are the absolute last thing you want cloud based.

I'm also iffy about the no porn. Does that refer to the cloud or the router? Because I sure as hell won't let the manufacturer of a tool tell me how not to use it.

While I'm not sure about these things, just the uncertainty introduced here makes me never buy Cisco again.

Because it happened in an AUTOMATIC update. While everybody appreciates plugging security holes and adding a feature or two, fundamentally changing the way a device works - overnight, automatically, without asking - is clearly not what anyone wants.

 

[Abresh]

So people are still using stock firmware? Why? Tomato is just better. (or DD-WRT if you swing that way)

Because you have a real chance of 'bricking' your hardware if you try to use those, as I did with my router. I was damned lucky that I was directed to a tool that could unbrick the thing after I did that while trying to install DD-WRT.

I'm a 'highly technical' person who knows what I am doing so if I can do that, anyone can.

I didn't understand the whole 'no porn' thing as well. It isn't like seeing that you downloaded 'Funky White Trash Knocked Up Ninnies' was going to hurt someone. It's a fucking TEXT NAME! If some of my employees had a problem with that, they would be fired for cause.

 

[apocryphal triptych]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding things. But isn't it insane that the device that allows you to access the internet needs an active connection to be configured? To my limited wisdom, routers are the absolute last thing you want cloud based.

I'm also iffy about the no porn. Does that refer to the cloud or the router? Because I sure as hell won't let the manufacturer of a tool tell me how not to use it.

While I'm not sure about these things, just the uncertainty introduced here makes me never buy Cisco again.

Because it happened in an AUTOMATIC update. While everybody appreciates plugging security holes and adding a feature or two, fundamentally changing the way a device works - overnight, automatically, without asking - is clearly not what anyone wants.

This. Sony paved the way with the PS3.
I'm wondering about the legality of keeping logs on people's web history like this. Didn't Facebook get in trouble for something similar?

 

[Deleted member 1]

So people are still using stock firmware? Why? Tomato is just better. (or DD-WRT if you swing that way)

Because you have a real chance of 'bricking' your hardware if you try to use those, as I did with my router. I was damned lucky that I was directed to a tool that could unbrick the thing after I did that while trying to install DD-WRT.

I'm a 'highly technical' person who knows what I am doing so if I can do that, anyone can.

If you bricked your router then you didn't follow the directions exactly.

Besides the router in question is not supported by DD-WRT to everyone that is saying it should be used.

 

[armandh2]

quote
AND, the NSA won't need to maintain closets in AT&T facilities. Just take a Cisco VP out to lunch!
end quote

another surmise there could be no profit in this
not to worry, they likely did it with a government grant

Cisco is obviously staffed entirely with managers at their peter principle pinnacle.

 

[watchout5]

Not a company after my trust, which is troubling. You manufacture hardware and you happen to have within your tool belt legal language that gives you complete and total control over my information? Nice try Cisco, your competition will be happy.