CDC issues new guidance on mask use

Most of the country is in categories where face mask use isn't recommended.

Read the whole story

 

[real mikeb_60]

Would Trump and his administration do this for America?

Moment ex-president brandishes Kalashnikov rifle on streets of Ukraine

https://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-crisis-m ... 00107.html

Trump's lips are too firmly wrapped around Putin's cock. He'd be bargaining with Moscow for resort permits in Kyiv.

Nah. The week's political cartoon seen in the shoecomics.com page:

 

[AmanoJyaku]

Trump's lips are too firmly wrapped around Putin's cock. He'd be bargaining with Moscow for resort permits in Kyiv.

Most of us would never say these things of leaders like Angela Merkel and Jacinda Ardern. I think we should refrain from such comments, including "bending over", as they come across as homophobic IMHO. Not saying that was your intention, just pointing out that's how others might see it.

 

[SixDegrees]

Trump's lips are too firmly wrapped around Putin's cock. He'd be bargaining with Moscow for resort permits in Kyiv.

Most of us would never say these things of leaders like Angela Merkel and Jacinda Ardern. I think we should refrain from such comments, including "bending over", as they come across as homophobic IMHO. Not saying that was your intention, just pointing out that's how others might see it.

Point taken. Will temper such remarks in the future. Just royally pissed Trump is now being openly traitorous. Apparently not even CPAC is happy about it.

For what it's worth, the US and EU just announced they're kicking several Russian banks out of SWIFT.

That's gonna leave a mark.

 

[SvnLyrBrto]

Count me in the "quite annoyed that I had to Google and come to the comments to find the actual data" camp.

Based on what I've seen, living in a nearly mask-free county still shaded red and with high infection/hospitalization/death rates based on the CDC graphs, it seems like the CDC has resigned themselves to just saying "I told you so" when the inevitable comes to pass.

Edit: The links have been added.

What else can the CDC do though? People have had since last April… more than ten months now… to get their shots. At this point, everyone who’s going to be vaccinated IS vaccinated. The anti-vaxers have never been reasonable or rational, even when it was just measles they were trying to bring back. We should stop pretending otherwise. And frankly, I’ve never understood the vainglorious conviction our politicians seem to have that if they ask them just-one-more-time to kindly stop being self-destructive idiots, that THIS time they will listen, be responsible, and get their damn shots.

And, equally frankly, as many times as we’ve been told “COVID is now a pandemic of the unvaccinated.” or “This is a variant for the unvaccinated.” or similar; I’m more than a bit frustrated… hell, more like pissed off… that those of us who’ve done the responsible thing and gotten our shots are the ones being asked to sacrifice and suffer and keep our own lives on hold these last 10 months in order to appease the anti-vaxers and their malfeasance. It’s well past time now for an endgame where we go back to our normal lives and leave the unvaccinated behind. Because if we don’t… if we keep up the notion that the only way to end this is to get everyone vaccinated… we’ll never have normality again. And I don’t consider that to be an acceptable outcome.

 

[SvnLyrBrto]

Honestly? At this point I'm wearing a mask indefinitely when I go to public places that are crowded. Even after the pandemic. Its just become the norm. And I don't care what people think. I haven't gotten a cold in 2 years most likely because mask + more common hand washing + being mindful of what I touch + keeping space between myself and others at checkouts.

Ive mentioned that before too. I’ve been less sick during the Covid pandemic compared to any time in my life.

Less sick, sure… but how about your overall health?

I’ve only even had one cold these last two years, where I usually average 3 or so per year. But my overall physical health sure has suffered. And… thank you Tim Cook… I have the data and graphs to prove it. Two years of being a shut-in, not being able to go to the gym, being under elevated stress, and having most of my coping mechanisms for said stress taken away from me have taken their toll: weight gain, fat gain, higher blood pressure, reduced cardio health, less muscle, reduced strength and stamina, elevated cholesterol and triglycerides, and a higher resting heart rate are just the metrics I can think of off the top of my head that have deteriorated. And that’s just physical health that I can track with numbers. I sure as hell know my mental health has deteriorated too.

For my part, I’d rather have had the colds.

 

[SixDegrees]

Honestly? At this point I'm wearing a mask indefinitely when I go to public places that are crowded. Even after the pandemic. Its just become the norm. And I don't care what people think. I haven't gotten a cold in 2 years most likely because mask + more common hand washing + being mindful of what I touch + keeping space between myself and others at checkouts.

Ive mentioned that before too. I’ve been less sick during the Covid pandemic compared to any time in my life.

Less sick, sure… but how about your overall health?

I’ve only even had one cold these last two years, where I usually average 3 or so per year. But my overall physical health sure has suffered. And… thank you Tim Cook… I have the data and graphs to prove it. Two years of being a shut-in, not being able to go to the gym, being under elevated stress, and having most of my coping mechanisms for said stress taken away from me have taken their toll: weight gain, fat gain, higher blood pressure, reduced cardio health, less muscle, reduced strength and stamina, elevated cholesterol and triglycerides, and a higher resting heart rate are just the metrics I can think of off the top of my head that have deteriorated. And that’s just physical health that I can track with numbers. I sure as hell know my mental health has deteriorated too.

For my part, I’d rather have had the colds.

Me, just the opposite. I've become much more rigorous about my daily workouts and walk 4 miles a day (when it's warm) or spend an hour on a stationary bike (when it's not) and I haven't missed a day. I've paid closer attention to my diet; I'm a Type 1 diabetic, and my blood sugar has never been under better control (although that's due in part to use of a continuous glucose monitoring sensor). I've dropped thirty pounds. Also avoided the usual ~1 per year cold. My physical a couple months ago showed everything pretty much dead center for someone my age, or even a bit better in some instances. My resting heart rate has dropped about 15 bpm, too.

So in a battle of anecdotes, it's a draw.

 

[guy372]

I wish they would wait until at least everybody could get a chance to be vaccinated (little kids can't be vaccinnated yet).

 

[artvandelayIIII]

They removed some of the mask requirements here in my area. I can guarantee you the ones who ripped off their masks immediately are also the same people who never socially distanced and continued to be social with large groups, tried to get away with no mask wearing when it was required and are likely not vaccinated. I'd like to stay as far from these people as possible for a few more weeks, until a more long term trend comes out of the numbers.

You'd be wrong.

I quarantined when we all were supposed to quarantine. I swabbed my fucking groceries with alcohol and left my mail sitting for days in case it was infected somehow. I wore a sweaty, shitty mask indoors constantly. (I even wore masks outside just to make others feel comfortable -- despite the fact that zero science supports that being at all necessary). I got vaccinated and boosted the second I could, eagerly. I spent weeks working my ass off to get my older relatives vaccine appointments when they were hard to come by. And I'll vaccinate my toddler the second there's a vaccine available for her.

And now? I'm taking the fucking mask off.

 

[TMilligan]

Honestly? At this point I'm wearing a mask indefinitely when I go to public places that are crowded. Even after the pandemic. Its just become the norm. And I don't care what people think. I haven't gotten a cold in 2 years most likely because mask + more common hand washing + being mindful of what I touch + keeping space between myself and others at checkouts.

Ive mentioned that before too. I’ve been less sick during the Covid pandemic compared to any time in my life.

Less sick, sure… but how about your overall health?

I’ve only even had one cold these last two years, where I usually average 3 or so per year. But my overall physical health sure has suffered. And… thank you Tim Cook… I have the data and graphs to prove it. Two years of being a shut-in, not being able to go to the gym, being under elevated stress, and having most of my coping mechanisms for said stress taken away from me have taken their toll: weight gain, fat gain, higher blood pressure, reduced cardio health, less muscle, reduced strength and stamina, elevated cholesterol and triglycerides, and a higher resting heart rate are just the metrics I can think of off the top of my head that have deteriorated. And that’s just physical health that I can track with numbers. I sure as hell know my mental health has deteriorated too.

For my part, I’d rather have had the colds.

I’m doing great. Actually lost 25lbs during Covid and am down to a very healthy weight now. Picked up some fun hobbies that have been on the back burner and have spent a bunch of time with my kids. Not saying everyone is the same but a break from the daily grind at work was amazing for me and my family.

 

[alecw]

I find this statement useful from the president of the American Medical Association (AMA) in response to the updated CDC guidelines. Here's a quote for those who don't bother to read the full statement:

"I personally will continue to wear a mask in most indoor public settings, and I urge all Americans to consider doing the same, especially in places like pharmacies, grocery stores, on public transportation"


https://www.ama-assn.org/press-center/p ... 19-updates

 

[TakeItOrLeaveIt]

It would be nice if this all ended with a guideline along the lines of "thanks to the pandemic, the effectiveness of masking and social distancing has been proven. Many illnesses were dramatically reduced to historic lows during the periods of mandated masking. Considering the ease with which it is done and the tremendous economic benefits gained by avoiding millions of illnesses every year, we advise everyone to continue these practices on a permanent basis."

I experienced the longest illness free period of my life from March 2020 til shortly after the end of general masking in my area in June 2021. I will continue to wear my mask though I know the effectiveness of masking depends on others and is now severely compromised.

Not masking is oversharing. Keep your disease please.

 

[jdale]

Any thoughts on using the local hospital occupancy as an indicator? The CDC guidelines are showing low community transmission for my area but the local hospital is at > 90% occupancy. They obviously treat more than COVID but I’ll keep wearing masks for now.

https://data.rgj.com/covid-19-hospital-capacity/

They are using hospital occupancy as an indicator, but it's at the county level. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... evels.html It's possible there are counties that are large enough that some parts are significantly higher or lower than others, but you need to pick some kind of dividing line that people can easily understand, and trying to draw a radius around each hospital is not really practical.

 

[The Lurker Beneath]

I find this statement useful from the president of the American Medical Association (AMA) in response to the updated CDC guidelines. Here's a quote for those who don't bother to read the full statement:

"I personally will continue to wear a mask in most indoor public settings, and I urge all Americans to consider doing the same, especially in places like pharmacies, grocery stores, on public transportation"


https://www.ama-assn.org/press-center/p ... 19-updates

All Covid restrictions end in Ireland tomorrow. (I think the UK has done the same this weekend.)

In both countries there have been some advisory statements about masking, self-isolation etc. It remains to be seen how much they will be adhered to. Some people are currently wearing masks when not obliged to, and I assume they will continue to do so. But I expect it to be a minority pursuit. (I'll carry one in case it seems to be the thing anywhere, but I'm not going to be wearing it otherwise.)

 

[Fibercut]

In my rural area a County representative tried to stop farmer from feeding he flock in his barn! This caused a storm in tea cup and she finally deleted the tweet! Stupid local people drunk with power! She is fighting a battle in her own district this fall and can't figure out why she is failing!

 

[SixDegrees]

In my rural area a County representative tried to stop farmer from feeding he flock in his barn! This caused a storm in tea cup and she finally deleted the tweet! Stupid local people drunk with power! She is fighting a battle in her own district this fall and can't figure out why she is failing!

Not following. The farmer was feeding his flock (of poultry?) in someone else's barn? That seems pretty problematic. And was this related to avian flu? That shit's nasty, and poultry lockdowns to prevent its spread (which is like fire amidst gasoline soaked rags) have been common for many years.

Maybe provide a link to this story, because I'm having trouble parsing your post.

 

[laggyNgroovy]

And this continues to be a pandemic of the unvaccinated.

For the ones that have the choice to get the vaccine.... good.

I've always wanted a self cleaning gene pool.

 

[letsief]

It would be nice if this all ended with a guideline along the lines of "thanks to the pandemic, the effectiveness of masking and social distancing has been proven. Many illnesses were dramatically reduced to historic lows during the periods of mandated masking. Considering the ease with which it is done and the tremendous economic benefits gained by avoiding millions of illnesses every year, we advise everyone to continue these practices on a permanent basis."

I experienced the longest illness free period of my life from March 2020 til shortly after the end of general masking in my area in June 2021. I will continue to wear my mask though I know the effectiveness of masking depends on others and is now severely compromised.

Not masking is oversharing. Keep your disease please.

Our experiences during the pandemic must have been very, very different if the main thing that was different for you between March 2020 and June 2021 was that everyone was wearing a mask in public. And if you think masking is nearly without negatives, then I strongly suspect you don't have young kids that were trying to learn how to talk and interact with others during the pandemic.

For what it's worth, masking never went away in my area, but someone in my house has still been mildly ill almost constantly since June 2021. Yes, it turns out if you close workplaces, schools, child care centers, public events, and discourage family gatherings, then illnesses drop a lot. I don't know why anyone would think that's a reasonable trade off.

 

[Durf]

A minimal-effort measure that can help the situation no matter where or how it's done? Welp, time to dial it all the way the fuck back so whiners can avoid the least possible amount of annoyance. Enjoy the next wave, America.

 

[artvandelayIIII]

It would be nice if this all ended with a guideline along the lines of "thanks to the pandemic, the effectiveness of masking and social distancing has been proven. Many illnesses were dramatically reduced to historic lows during the periods of mandated masking. Considering the ease with which it is done and the tremendous economic benefits gained by avoiding millions of illnesses every year, we advise everyone to continue these practices on a permanent basis."

I experienced the longest illness free period of my life from March 2020 til shortly after the end of general masking in my area in June 2021. I will continue to wear my mask though I know the effectiveness of masking depends on others and is now severely compromised.

Not masking is oversharing. Keep your disease please.

Are you seriously suggesting everyone just wears surgical masks all the time, permanently, regardless of whether COVID or any other serious pathogen is prevalent?

 

[azazel1024]

...
That only matters if they were ever good at determining prevalence in the first place. I recall Fauci saying the vast majority of infections around late 2020 were due to asymptomatic carriers.

Don't remember that but he probably meant pre-symptomatic instead of asymptomatic.

Since people can be contagious 1-3 days before they start showing symptoms, that's probably the most common scenario for transmission. Since once a person starts showing symptoms, they're more likely to get tested, self-isolate, etc.

The upshot is we've probably undercounted infections (prevalence) to a large degree since the onset if most of them have been asymptomatic.

I think a few studies showed that 10-30% of cases were asymptomatic in 2020, i.e., before vaccines.

Not trivial, but also not the 90% (or whatever) that some proponents of naturally-acquired herd immunity were claiming.

Now that so many people are vaccinated, I suspect the number of asymptomatic cases is enormous. I know several people who have had asymptomatic cases.

I am not sure where Omicron has put us. But yes, studies you through Alpha and Delta showed that unvaccinated ran up to about 30% asymptomatic (actually mostly very mild symptoms people ignored. Very few people had ZERO symptoms). Younger people tended more towards the 30%, older people less. Delta fewer people were asymptomatic as it tended to generally be more severe.

Vaccinated people it was higher, but also less likely to get infected. But if they did, it was more like 50% were asymptomatic/so mild they didn’t realize they contracted it.

Omicron it seems much higher. But greater break through rate, but also a lot of people vaccinated, prior infections and/or booster. It wouldn’t surprise me for those it is closer to 60-70% asymptomatic.

Those never infected or vaccinated, Omicron doesn’t look like it has a very higher rate of asymptomatic. Most people show symptoms, just like Delta.

 

[azazel1024]

Count me in the "quite annoyed that I had to Google and come to the comments to find the actual data" camp.

Based on what I've seen, living in a nearly mask-free county still shaded red and with high infection/hospitalization/death rates based on the CDC graphs, it seems like the CDC has resigned themselves to just saying "I told you so" when the inevitable comes to pass.

Edit: The links have been added.

What else can the CDC do though? People have had since last April… more than ten months now… to get their shots. At this point, everyone who’s going to be vaccinated IS vaccinated. The anti-vaxers have never been reasonable or rational, even when it was just measles they were trying to bring back. We should stop pretending otherwise. And frankly, I’ve never understood the vainglorious conviction our politicians seem to have that if they ask them just-one-more-time to kindly stop being self-destructive idiots, that THIS time they will listen, be responsible, and get their damn shots.

And, equally frankly, as many times as we’ve been told “COVID is now a pandemic of the unvaccinated.” or “This is a variant for the unvaccinated.” or similar; I’m more than a bit frustrated… hell, more like pissed off… that those of us who’ve done the responsible thing and gotten our shots are the ones being asked to sacrifice and suffer and keep our own lives on hold these last 10 months in order to appease the anti-vaxers and their malfeasance. It’s well past time now for an endgame where we go back to our normal lives and leave the unvaccinated behind. Because if we don’t… if we keep up the notion that the only way to end this is to get everyone vaccinated… we’ll never have normality again. And I don’t consider that to be an acceptable outcome.

I mean, we can continue to try to push mandates. I just hope schools require them before fall admission. I suspect most states won’t though. They don’t have the stones to go up against the parents who are willing to scream in their face at board meetings that they are killing their kids by making them wear a mask in school. Let alone vaccinate. *sigh*

I also hope the Biden administration continues pushing vaccine mandates for the federal workforce. Speaking as a fed, I really don’t want to have to be back in an office with those unwilling to be vaccinated.

Doesn’t help there is a very large overlap between those I know not willing to vaccinate and those are are just fucking idiots. So it is a bit of killing two birds with one stone. Clear out those people putting me and those around them at greater risk of getting sick from them, and also clearing out some of the people who produce shitty work and/or have interpersonal skills issues.

 

[letsief]

Count me in the "quite annoyed that I had to Google and come to the comments to find the actual data" camp.

Based on what I've seen, living in a nearly mask-free county still shaded red and with high infection/hospitalization/death rates based on the CDC graphs, it seems like the CDC has resigned themselves to just saying "I told you so" when the inevitable comes to pass.

Edit: The links have been added.

What else can the CDC do though? People have had since last April… more than ten months now… to get their shots. At this point, everyone who’s going to be vaccinated IS vaccinated. The anti-vaxers have never been reasonable or rational, even when it was just measles they were trying to bring back. We should stop pretending otherwise. And frankly, I’ve never understood the vainglorious conviction our politicians seem to have that if they ask them just-one-more-time to kindly stop being self-destructive idiots, that THIS time they will listen, be responsible, and get their damn shots.

And, equally frankly, as many times as we’ve been told “COVID is now a pandemic of the unvaccinated.” or “This is a variant for the unvaccinated.” or similar; I’m more than a bit frustrated… hell, more like pissed off… that those of us who’ve done the responsible thing and gotten our shots are the ones being asked to sacrifice and suffer and keep our own lives on hold these last 10 months in order to appease the anti-vaxers and their malfeasance. It’s well past time now for an endgame where we go back to our normal lives and leave the unvaccinated behind. Because if we don’t… if we keep up the notion that the only way to end this is to get everyone vaccinated… we’ll never have normality again. And I don’t consider that to be an acceptable outcome.

I mean, we can continue to try to push mandates. I just hope schools require them before fall admission. I suspect most states won’t though. They don’t have the stones to go up against the parents who are willing to scream in their face at board meetings that they are killing their kids by making them wear a mask in school. Let alone vaccinate. *sigh*

I also hope the Biden administration continues pushing vaccine mandates for the federal workforce. Speaking as a fed, I really don’t want to have to be back in an office with those unwilling to be vaccinated.

Doesn’t help there is a very large overlap between those I know not willing to vaccinate and those are are just fucking idiots. So it is a bit of killing two birds with one stone. Clear out those people putting me and those around them at greater risk of getting sick from them, and also clearing out some of the people who produce shitty work and/or have interpersonal skills issues.

Where do you work? With one exception, everyone in my office of 100 people is vaccinated. And that one holdout retired anyway when threatened with the mandate, so it was a win-win. I don’t expect every agency to have that high of a vaccination rate, but I do expect nearly all would have one high enough that a mandate would be a moot point.

I don’t particularly understand the push for mandates at this point. I did when it looked like they were 80-90% effective at preventing infection, but that isn’t the case with the new variants. And the efficacy against infection wanes fairly significantly after 4-6 months. So unless you think requirements for twice/year boosters is plausible (and I don’t think it is plausible, or even desirable), then you’re back to mostly relying on the vaccines to prevent serious illness, which luckily they’re quite good at.

 

[letsief]

It would be nice if this all ended with a guideline along the lines of "thanks to the pandemic, the effectiveness of masking and social distancing has been proven. Many illnesses were dramatically reduced to historic lows during the periods of mandated masking. Considering the ease with which it is done and the tremendous economic benefits gained by avoiding millions of illnesses every year, we advise everyone to continue these practices on a permanent basis."

I experienced the longest illness free period of my life from March 2020 til shortly after the end of general masking in my area in June 2021. I will continue to wear my mask though I know the effectiveness of masking depends on others and is now severely compromised.

Not masking is oversharing. Keep your disease please.

Are you seriously suggesting everyone just wears surgical masks all the time, permanently, regardless of whether COVID or any other serious pathogen is prevalent?

Clearly yes. Forever-maskers are real. Sometimes they hide it behind implausible zero-Covid metrics, but this poster was willing to just come out and say it.

 

[Eurynom0s]

It would have been nice to think that one of the positives to come out of COVID was a more Asia-esque appreciation for the benefits of wearing a mask in public when you're not feeling well, and not somehow get twisted into a political tool.

But I'm a hopeless optimist, and used to disappointment.

Living in Japan, I now don't want to really ever got back to the UK, etc for the foreseeable future.

We haven't seen how these countries which did strict lockdowns will fare with reopening yet. It's still early in the 4th quarter of this thing.

Looking at the two "model students" of the Zero-COVID approach, it's not that promising.
New Zealand allowed on Jan. 7th spouses and dependents of NZ citizens to enter the country. Their tally for Feb. 26th alone was 13,625 new cases. That is, about their *cumulated* total on Dec. 25th.
Taiwan is still mostly closed and they pee their collective panties each time a new "cluster" of twelve cases is reported in Taoyuan. To give an idea of the current mentality. Today's Taipei Times is reporting:
"Minister of Health and Welfare Chen Shih-chung (陳時中), who heads the center, yesterday visited Kaohsiung’s Cijin District (旗津) with Kaohsiung Mayor Chen Chi-mai (陳其邁) and other CECC officials to show support to local communities hit hard by a COVID-19 cluster linked to Kaohsiung Harbor last month."
The local communities were "hit hard" last month by less than a hundred cases. Taiwan is *considering* reducing quarantine time for business travelers from 14 to 10 days, regardless of vaccination status. Contrary to other SE Asian countries (Thailand and Cambodia in particular), lack of tourism hasn't impacted their economy at all. I don't see them reopening anytime soon.

And how are they doing on severe illness and/or death rates?

My understanding is New Zealand in particular has some pretty good vaccination rates. I'm guessing they still come out ahead in the end.

New Zealand bought itself over a year of the pre-COVID normalcy that the antivaxxer and antimasker lunatics insist is their goal. Sure is weird that all they want to focus on is the fact that COVID eventually hit New Zealand despite their best efforts, almost like their objection is in fact actually just the attempt to prevent COVID from taking hold in the first place.

 

[jdale]

Count me in the "quite annoyed that I had to Google and come to the comments to find the actual data" camp.

Based on what I've seen, living in a nearly mask-free county still shaded red and with high infection/hospitalization/death rates based on the CDC graphs, it seems like the CDC has resigned themselves to just saying "I told you so" when the inevitable comes to pass.

Edit: The links have been added.

What else can the CDC do though? People have had since last April… more than ten months now… to get their shots. At this point, everyone who’s going to be vaccinated IS vaccinated. The anti-vaxers have never been reasonable or rational, even when it was just measles they were trying to bring back. We should stop pretending otherwise. And frankly, I’ve never understood the vainglorious conviction our politicians seem to have that if they ask them just-one-more-time to kindly stop being self-destructive idiots, that THIS time they will listen, be responsible, and get their damn shots.

And, equally frankly, as many times as we’ve been told “COVID is now a pandemic of the unvaccinated.” or “This is a variant for the unvaccinated.” or similar; I’m more than a bit frustrated… hell, more like pissed off… that those of us who’ve done the responsible thing and gotten our shots are the ones being asked to sacrifice and suffer and keep our own lives on hold these last 10 months in order to appease the anti-vaxers and their malfeasance. It’s well past time now for an endgame where we go back to our normal lives and leave the unvaccinated behind. Because if we don’t… if we keep up the notion that the only way to end this is to get everyone vaccinated… we’ll never have normality again. And I don’t consider that to be an acceptable outcome.

I mean, we can continue to try to push mandates. I just hope schools require them before fall admission. I suspect most states won’t though. They don’t have the stones to go up against the parents who are willing to scream in their face at board meetings that they are killing their kids by making them wear a mask in school. Let alone vaccinate. *sigh*

I also hope the Biden administration continues pushing vaccine mandates for the federal workforce. Speaking as a fed, I really don’t want to have to be back in an office with those unwilling to be vaccinated.

Doesn’t help there is a very large overlap between those I know not willing to vaccinate and those are are just fucking idiots. So it is a bit of killing two birds with one stone. Clear out those people putting me and those around them at greater risk of getting sick from them, and also clearing out some of the people who produce shitty work and/or have interpersonal skills issues.

Where do you work? With one exception, everyone in my office of 100 people is vaccinated. And that one holdout retired anyway when threatened with the mandate, so it was a win-win. I don’t expect every agency to have that high of a vaccination rate, but I do expect nearly all would have one high enough that a mandate would be a moot point.

I don’t particularly understand the push for mandates at this point. I did when it looked like they were 80-90% effective at preventing infection, but that isn’t the case with the new variants. And the efficacy against infection wanes fairly significantly after 4-6 months. So unless you think requirements for twice/year boosters is plausible (and I don’t think it is plausible, or even desirable), then you’re back to mostly relying on the vaccines to prevent serious illness, which luckily they’re quite good at.

What's not to understand about wanting more people vaccinated? In the US, we're currently averaging over 1400 deaths per day. 98+% of those are in the unvaccinated. That means we could prevent the vast majority of those deaths. Over 120,000 deaths this year alone, the vast majority of them lives wasted because people did not want to be vaccinated or because they believed they were not at risk. That's equivalent to four years worth of flu deaths, in the space of two months, that did have to happen.

We have about 50,000 people hospitalized with covid-19, 10,000 of them in the ICU, and we could have prevented the vast majority of them. The average hospitalization costs over $21,000 https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news ... accination which is billions of dollars we are just throwing away since vaccination costs a relative pittance and would prevent most of those cases. Many of those people who do survive will have long term impacts -- fatigue, cardiovascular impairment, cognitive impairment. That will make their lives worse and we'll end up paying for it one way or another.

And while the efficacy of vaccines against infection wanes, it is not extinguished. Vaccination also reduces the chance of infecting others -- that reduction also declines over time but some reduction is better than none, and boosters will reinforce it.

 

[SixDegrees]

Count me in the "quite annoyed that I had to Google and come to the comments to find the actual data" camp.

Based on what I've seen, living in a nearly mask-free county still shaded red and with high infection/hospitalization/death rates based on the CDC graphs, it seems like the CDC has resigned themselves to just saying "I told you so" when the inevitable comes to pass.

Edit: The links have been added.

What else can the CDC do though? People have had since last April… more than ten months now… to get their shots. At this point, everyone who’s going to be vaccinated IS vaccinated. The anti-vaxers have never been reasonable or rational, even when it was just measles they were trying to bring back. We should stop pretending otherwise. And frankly, I’ve never understood the vainglorious conviction our politicians seem to have that if they ask them just-one-more-time to kindly stop being self-destructive idiots, that THIS time they will listen, be responsible, and get their damn shots.

And, equally frankly, as many times as we’ve been told “COVID is now a pandemic of the unvaccinated.” or “This is a variant for the unvaccinated.” or similar; I’m more than a bit frustrated… hell, more like pissed off… that those of us who’ve done the responsible thing and gotten our shots are the ones being asked to sacrifice and suffer and keep our own lives on hold these last 10 months in order to appease the anti-vaxers and their malfeasance. It’s well past time now for an endgame where we go back to our normal lives and leave the unvaccinated behind. Because if we don’t… if we keep up the notion that the only way to end this is to get everyone vaccinated… we’ll never have normality again. And I don’t consider that to be an acceptable outcome.

I mean, we can continue to try to push mandates. I just hope schools require them before fall admission. I suspect most states won’t though. They don’t have the stones to go up against the parents who are willing to scream in their face at board meetings that they are killing their kids by making them wear a mask in school. Let alone vaccinate. *sigh*

I also hope the Biden administration continues pushing vaccine mandates for the federal workforce. Speaking as a fed, I really don’t want to have to be back in an office with those unwilling to be vaccinated.

Doesn’t help there is a very large overlap between those I know not willing to vaccinate and those are are just fucking idiots. So it is a bit of killing two birds with one stone. Clear out those people putting me and those around them at greater risk of getting sick from them, and also clearing out some of the people who produce shitty work and/or have interpersonal skills issues.

Where do you work? With one exception, everyone in my office of 100 people is vaccinated. And that one holdout retired anyway when threatened with the mandate, so it was a win-win. I don’t expect every agency to have that high of a vaccination rate, but I do expect nearly all would have one high enough that a mandate would be a moot point.

I don’t particularly understand the push for mandates at this point. I did when it looked like they were 80-90% effective at preventing infection, but that isn’t the case with the new variants. And the efficacy against infection wanes fairly significantly after 4-6 months. So unless you think requirements for twice/year boosters is plausible (and I don’t think it is plausible, or even desirable), then you’re back to mostly relying on the vaccines to prevent serious illness, which luckily they’re quite good at.

What's not to understand about wanting more people vaccinated? In the US, we're currently averaging over 1400 deaths per day. 98+% of those are in the unvaccinated. That means we could prevent the vast majority of those deaths. Over 120,000 deaths this year alone, the vast majority of them lives wasted because people did not want to be vaccinated or because they believed they were not at risk. That's equivalent to four years worth of flu deaths, in the space of two months, that did have to happen.

We have about 50,000 people hospitalized with covid-19, 10,000 of them in the ICU, and we could have prevented the vast majority of them. The average hospitalization costs over $21,000 https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news ... accination which is billions of dollars we are just throwing away since vaccination costs a relative pittance and would prevent most of those cases. Many of those people who do survive will have long term impacts -- fatigue, cardiovascular impairment, cognitive impairment. That will make their lives worse and we'll end up paying for it one way or another.

And while the efficacy of vaccines against infection wanes, it is not extinguished. Vaccination also reduces the chance of infecting others -- that reduction also declines over time but some reduction is better than none, and boosters will reinforce it.

It's not worth the effort. Sure, some tiny fraction of those deaths are among those who have no choice - immunocompromised, for instance - but the vast bulk of them are republican ditto-head know-nothings who've made a conscious choice not to vaccinate. It's very hard for me to be upset over their deaths anymore. The fewer of them, the better.

 

[Fibercut]

In my rural area a County representative tried to stop farmer from feeding he flock in his barn! This caused a storm in tea cup and she finally deleted the tweet! Stupid local people drunk with power! She is fighting a battle in her own district this fall and can't figure out why she is failing!

Not following. The farmer was feeding his flock (of poultry?) in someone else's barn? That seems pretty problematic. And was this related to avian flu? That shit's nasty, and poultry lockdowns to prevent its spread (which is like fire amidst gasoline soaked rags) have been common for many years.

Maybe provide a link to this story, because I'm having trouble parsing your post.

No it was HIS barn!

 

[SixDegrees]

In my rural area a County representative tried to stop farmer from feeding he flock in his barn! This caused a storm in tea cup and she finally deleted the tweet! Stupid local people drunk with power! She is fighting a battle in her own district this fall and can't figure out why she is failing!

Not following. The farmer was feeding his flock (of poultry?) in someone else's barn? That seems pretty problematic. And was this related to avian flu? That shit's nasty, and poultry lockdowns to prevent its spread (which is like fire amidst gasoline soaked rags) have been common for many years.

Maybe provide a link to this story, because I'm having trouble parsing your post.

No it was HIS barn!

Where's the link, then? This is commonplace for poultry and livestock, and has been for decades, as noted. County AG boards serve the public at large, and have power to quarantine livestock for the benefit of all; they can go so far as to order livestock destroyed if deemed a sufficient threat to the welfare of others in the area. You're bitching but not providing any actual details as a basis for it.

 

[VividVerism]

Count me in the "quite annoyed that I had to Google and come to the comments to find the actual data" camp.

Based on what I've seen, living in a nearly mask-free county still shaded red and with high infection/hospitalization/death rates based on the CDC graphs, it seems like the CDC has resigned themselves to just saying "I told you so" when the inevitable comes to pass.

Edit: The links have been added.

What else can the CDC do though? People have had since last April… more than ten months now… to get their shots. At this point, everyone who’s going to be vaccinated IS vaccinated. The anti-vaxers have never been reasonable or rational, even when it was just measles they were trying to bring back. We should stop pretending otherwise. And frankly, I’ve never understood the vainglorious conviction our politicians seem to have that if they ask them just-one-more-time to kindly stop being self-destructive idiots, that THIS time they will listen, be responsible, and get their damn shots.

And, equally frankly, as many times as we’ve been told “COVID is now a pandemic of the unvaccinated.” or “This is a variant for the unvaccinated.” or similar; I’m more than a bit frustrated… hell, more like pissed off… that those of us who’ve done the responsible thing and gotten our shots are the ones being asked to sacrifice and suffer and keep our own lives on hold these last 10 months in order to appease the anti-vaxers and their malfeasance. It’s well past time now for an endgame where we go back to our normal lives and leave the unvaccinated behind. Because if we don’t… if we keep up the notion that the only way to end this is to get everyone vaccinated… we’ll never have normality again. And I don’t consider that to be an acceptable outcome.

I mean, we can continue to try to push mandates. I just hope schools require them before fall admission. I suspect most states won’t though. They don’t have the stones to go up against the parents who are willing to scream in their face at board meetings that they are killing their kids by making them wear a mask in school. Let alone vaccinate. *sigh*

I also hope the Biden administration continues pushing vaccine mandates for the federal workforce. Speaking as a fed, I really don’t want to have to be back in an office with those unwilling to be vaccinated.

Doesn’t help there is a very large overlap between those I know not willing to vaccinate and those are are just fucking idiots. So it is a bit of killing two birds with one stone. Clear out those people putting me and those around them at greater risk of getting sick from them, and also clearing out some of the people who produce shitty work and/or have interpersonal skills issues.

Where do you work? With one exception, everyone in my office of 100 people is vaccinated. And that one holdout retired anyway when threatened with the mandate, so it was a win-win. I don’t expect every agency to have that high of a vaccination rate, but I do expect nearly all would have one high enough that a mandate would be a moot point.

I don’t particularly understand the push for mandates at this point. I did when it looked like they were 80-90% effective at preventing infection, but that isn’t the case with the new variants. And the efficacy against infection wanes fairly significantly after 4-6 months. So unless you think requirements for twice/year boosters is plausible (and I don’t think it is plausible, or even desirable), then you’re back to mostly relying on the vaccines to prevent serious illness, which luckily they’re quite good at.

What's not to understand about wanting more people vaccinated? In the US, we're currently averaging over 1400 deaths per day. 98+% of those are in the unvaccinated. That means we could prevent the vast majority of those deaths. Over 120,000 deaths this year alone, the vast majority of them lives wasted because people did not want to be vaccinated or because they believed they were not at risk. That's equivalent to four years worth of flu deaths, in the space of two months, that did have to happen.

We have about 50,000 people hospitalized with covid-19, 10,000 of them in the ICU, and we could have prevented the vast majority of them. The average hospitalization costs over $21,000 https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news ... accination which is billions of dollars we are just throwing away since vaccination costs a relative pittance and would prevent most of those cases. Many of those people who do survive will have long term impacts -- fatigue, cardiovascular impairment, cognitive impairment. That will make their lives worse and we'll end up paying for it one way or another.

And while the efficacy of vaccines against infection wanes, it is not extinguished. Vaccination also reduces the chance of infecting others -- that reduction also declines over time but some reduction is better than none, and boosters will reinforce it.

It's not worth the effort. Sure, some tiny fraction of those deaths are among those who have no choice - immunocompromised, for instance - but the vast bulk of them are republican ditto-head know-nothings who've made a conscious choice not to vaccinate. It's very hard for me to be upset over their deaths anymore. The fewer of them, the better.

Ok, but we've already seen mandates can significantly decrease the number of holdouts. More vaccine mandates would be welcome, for me. At least add it to the school vaccination lists. It doesn't even need to be about keeping people alive: if you catch COVID, you're out of school for a week. And it's highly contagious, so other kids will be out for a week, too.

And speaking of completely avoidable hospital costs: add a surcharge to insurance premiums. It's past time for that. And people will grumble about it but they don't really have a choice other than not carrying insurance at all, getting vaccinated, or at least paying for their future hospital stay through the surcharge. Most won't drop the insurance, I'm guessing.

 

[ggalt]

Looking at that map from the CDC, I wonder how well it would line up with a similar map of education levels.

 

[Z1ggy]

They removed some of the mask requirements here in my area. I can guarantee you the ones who ripped off their masks immediately are also the same people who never socially distanced and continued to be social with large groups, tried to get away with no mask wearing when it was required and are likely not vaccinated. I'd like to stay as far from these people as possible for a few more weeks, until a more long term trend comes out of the numbers.

You'd be wrong.

I quarantined when we all were supposed to quarantine. I swabbed my fucking groceries with alcohol and left my mail sitting for days in case it was infected somehow. I wore a sweaty, shitty mask indoors constantly. (I even wore masks outside just to make others feel comfortable -- despite the fact that zero science supports that being at all necessary). I got vaccinated and boosted the second I could, eagerly. I spent weeks working my ass off to get my older relatives vaccine appointments when they were hard to come by. And I'll vaccinate my toddler the second there's a vaccine available for her.

And now? I'm taking the fucking mask off.

So youve got a toddler at home who cant get vaccinated yet, and your willing to just say ef it and go maskless? Nice job.


But anyway, damned if my school district isnt removing mask mandates starting this wed. Today was the first day back from a week of vacation. I wish they would just have waited till next monday, to make sure people didnt bring covid back home with them from holiday.

 

[Xerxex]

Here is an interesting memo that was released yesterday by Impact Research, a Democratic Party polling firm:

https://twitter.com/hamill_law/status/1 ... 4790872065

“ Twice as many voters are now more concerned about COVID’s effect on the economy (49%) than about someone in their family or someone they know becoming infected with the coronavirus (24%)”

“Six in ten Americans describe themselves as ‘worn out’ by the pandemic. The more we talk about the threat of COVID and onerously restrict people’s lives because of it, the more we turn them against us and show them we’re out of touch with their daily realities.”

“Science” indeed.

Interesting definition of onerous they have.

 

[donfelipe]

While far from my personal preference, I expect that everyone will get COVID at some point, and that it will continue to circulate in the population. We will probably kill a million more Americans over the length of this pandemic - even as it transitions to endemic status. Vaccination rates will increase as those who don't have immunity repeatedly get it (and I've seen that happen in very short order to family members who still refuse to get vaccinated), and those who get it will acquire some levels of temporary immunity that MAY at some point several years from now finally achieve herd immunity.

Of course, that will be long after the rest of the world with sane leaders and mostly responsible citizens have basically returned to normal, and are banning Americans (and those from other countries with the same shitty compliance issues) from entering their countries each time an outbreak happens.

There is not going to be a happy ending here. We'll just realize some day that we're living with it not because we have to, but because not enough people here want to prevent it.

I got covid. You'll likely get it. Kind of a bummer. But there's not much reason to think that this little bugger will kill a shit-ton more people now that nearly everyone is vaccinated, exposed, or both.

The current day being what it is, you'll please forgive me the war-like mental framing of the difference between
* "Ha, ha, that was nothing! We wiped that turd from the map at little cost to ourselves"
and
* "That fucking sucked, a lot of people died, we must remember and consecrate this event"
But at the end of both of those, we won and we move on. You can quibble about whether we move on this week, or this month, but if you think the vast majority of people will care in a year, I don't know what to tell you.

Enjoy nihilism if you want to, but it's already out of fashion.

Um, only 2/3 of the US is fully vaccinated and only 25% up to date on the booster. Percentage is below 50% for children. Kinda hard to just ignore that huge segment of population.
https://usafacts.org/visualizations/cov ... er-states/

"We move on", yeah except the millions that died, many completely unnecessarily.

 

[Snark218]

Nothing like an upcoming election to put the lie to previously firmly held convictions.

So, when scientists and other normal people receive new information based on changing circumstances, many of them are capable of changing their opinions and practices in response. It's actually very weird to make up your mind once and consider any change to be evidence of ulterior motives or fuckery.

 

[Snark218]

While far from my personal preference, I expect that everyone will get COVID at some point, and that it will continue to circulate in the population. We will probably kill a million more Americans over the length of this pandemic - even as it transitions to endemic status. Vaccination rates will increase as those who don't have immunity repeatedly get it (and I've seen that happen in very short order to family members who still refuse to get vaccinated), and those who get it will acquire some levels of temporary immunity that MAY at some point several years from now finally achieve herd immunity.

Of course, that will be long after the rest of the world with sane leaders and mostly responsible citizens have basically returned to normal, and are banning Americans (and those from other countries with the same shitty compliance issues) from entering their countries each time an outbreak happens.

There is not going to be a happy ending here. We'll just realize some day that we're living with it not because we have to, but because not enough people here want to prevent it.

I got covid. You'll likely get it. Kind of a bummer. But there's not much reason to think that this little bugger will kill a shit-ton more people now that nearly everyone is vaccinated, exposed, or both.

The current day being what it is, you'll please forgive me the war-like mental framing of the difference between
* "Ha, ha, that was nothing! We wiped that turd from the map at little cost to ourselves"
and
* "That fucking sucked, a lot of people died, we must remember and consecrate this event"
But at the end of both of those, we won and we move on. You can quibble about whether we move on this week, or this month, but if you think the vast majority of people will care in a year, I don't know what to tell you.

Enjoy nihilism if you want to, but it's already out of fashion.

Um, only 2/3 of the US is fully vaccinated and only 25% up to date on the booster. Percentage is below 50% for children. Kinda hard to just ignore that huge segment of population.

If someone is not vaccinated and/or won't vaccinate their children, I am in fact completely fine with factoring them out of my moral and practical considerations.

 

[Snark218]

Count me in the "quite annoyed that I had to Google and come to the comments to find the actual data" camp.

Based on what I've seen, living in a nearly mask-free county still shaded red and with high infection/hospitalization/death rates based on the CDC graphs, it seems like the CDC has resigned themselves to just saying "I told you so" when the inevitable comes to pass.

Edit: The links have been added.

What else can the CDC do though? People have had since last April… more than ten months now… to get their shots. At this point, everyone who’s going to be vaccinated IS vaccinated. The anti-vaxers have never been reasonable or rational, even when it was just measles they were trying to bring back. We should stop pretending otherwise. And frankly, I’ve never understood the vainglorious conviction our politicians seem to have that if they ask them just-one-more-time to kindly stop being self-destructive idiots, that THIS time they will listen, be responsible, and get their damn shots.

And, equally frankly, as many times as we’ve been told “COVID is now a pandemic of the unvaccinated.” or “This is a variant for the unvaccinated.” or similar; I’m more than a bit frustrated… hell, more like pissed off… that those of us who’ve done the responsible thing and gotten our shots are the ones being asked to sacrifice and suffer and keep our own lives on hold these last 10 months in order to appease the anti-vaxers and their malfeasance. It’s well past time now for an endgame where we go back to our normal lives and leave the unvaccinated behind. Because if we don’t… if we keep up the notion that the only way to end this is to get everyone vaccinated… we’ll never have normality again. And I don’t consider that to be an acceptable outcome.

I mean, we can continue to try to push mandates. I just hope schools require them before fall admission. I suspect most states won’t though. They don’t have the stones to go up against the parents who are willing to scream in their face at board meetings that they are killing their kids by making them wear a mask in school. Let alone vaccinate. *sigh*

I also hope the Biden administration continues pushing vaccine mandates for the federal workforce. Speaking as a fed, I really don’t want to have to be back in an office with those unwilling to be vaccinated.

Doesn’t help there is a very large overlap between those I know not willing to vaccinate and those are are just fucking idiots. So it is a bit of killing two birds with one stone. Clear out those people putting me and those around them at greater risk of getting sick from them, and also clearing out some of the people who produce shitty work and/or have interpersonal skills issues.

Where do you work? With one exception, everyone in my office of 100 people is vaccinated. And that one holdout retired anyway when threatened with the mandate, so it was a win-win. I don’t expect every agency to have that high of a vaccination rate, but I do expect nearly all would have one high enough that a mandate would be a moot point.

I don’t particularly understand the push for mandates at this point. I did when it looked like they were 80-90% effective at preventing infection, but that isn’t the case with the new variants. And the efficacy against infection wanes fairly significantly after 4-6 months. So unless you think requirements for twice/year boosters is plausible (and I don’t think it is plausible, or even desirable), then you’re back to mostly relying on the vaccines to prevent serious illness, which luckily they’re quite good at.

What's not to understand about wanting more people vaccinated? In the US, we're currently averaging over 1400 deaths per day. 98+% of those are in the unvaccinated. That means we could prevent the vast majority of those deaths. Over 120,000 deaths this year alone, the vast majority of them lives wasted because people did not want to be vaccinated or because they believed they were not at risk. That's equivalent to four years worth of flu deaths, in the space of two months, that did have to happen.

We have about 50,000 people hospitalized with covid-19, 10,000 of them in the ICU, and we could have prevented the vast majority of them. The average hospitalization costs over $21,000 https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news ... accination which is billions of dollars we are just throwing away since vaccination costs a relative pittance and would prevent most of those cases. Many of those people who do survive will have long term impacts -- fatigue, cardiovascular impairment, cognitive impairment. That will make their lives worse and we'll end up paying for it one way or another.

And while the efficacy of vaccines against infection wanes, it is not extinguished. Vaccination also reduces the chance of infecting others -- that reduction also declines over time but some reduction is better than none, and boosters will reinforce it.

It's not worth the effort. Sure, some tiny fraction of those deaths are among those who have no choice - immunocompromised, for instance - but the vast bulk of them are republican ditto-head know-nothings who've made a conscious choice not to vaccinate. It's very hard for me to be upset over their deaths anymore. The fewer of them, the better.

The vaccine is safe for the immunocompromised. My mom has been vaccinated and boosted since the beginning. It's not clear that it actually did anything for her, but it wasn't recommended that she avoid it. A family friend has Sjogren's and she reacted quite strongly to it, but also got vaccinated without issue. So it's not actually clear to me whether there are any conditions that would actively preclude someone with an autoimmune condition or a compromised immune system from getting vaccinated.

So yeah, I don't really give a fuck anymore.

 

[artvandelayIIII]

They removed some of the mask requirements here in my area. I can guarantee you the ones who ripped off their masks immediately are also the same people who never socially distanced and continued to be social with large groups, tried to get away with no mask wearing when it was required and are likely not vaccinated. I'd like to stay as far from these people as possible for a few more weeks, until a more long term trend comes out of the numbers.

You'd be wrong.

I quarantined when we all were supposed to quarantine. I swabbed my fucking groceries with alcohol and left my mail sitting for days in case it was infected somehow. I wore a sweaty, shitty mask indoors constantly. (I even wore masks outside just to make others feel comfortable -- despite the fact that zero science supports that being at all necessary). I got vaccinated and boosted the second I could, eagerly. I spent weeks working my ass off to get my older relatives vaccine appointments when they were hard to come by. And I'll vaccinate my toddler the second there's a vaccine available for her.

And now? I'm taking the fucking mask off.

So youve got a toddler at home who cant get vaccinated yet, and your willing to just say ef it and go maskless? Nice job.

Yep! We all got Omicron in January. Nobody was particularly sick. In fact we got a whole hell of a lot sicker earlier in the winter with something non-COVID (we tested multiple times at home and at clinics). This was a non-event by comparison. I'm not saying it's always like this, but as plenty of experts have pointed out, statistically little kids are extremely unlikely to have serious side effects from this disease.

But anyway, damned if my school district isnt removing mask mandates starting this wed. Today was the first day back from a week of vacation. I wish they would just have waited till next monday, to make sure people didnt bring covid back home with them from holiday.

I have news for you: todders wearing thin, spit-damp cloth masks hanging half off their face isn't exactly the magic bullet you think it is.

I know, I'll get roasted for daring to question the "abundance of caution" thinking here, but the World Health Organization specifically recommends for younger children to not wear masks at all. Source

In general, children aged 5 years and under should not be required to wear masks. This advice is based on the safety and overall interest of the child and the capacity to appropriately use a mask with minimal assistance. There may be local requirements for children aged 5 years and under to wear masks, or specific needs in some settings, such as being physically close to someone who is ill. In these circumstances, if the child wears a mask, a parent or other guardian should be within direct line of sight to supervise the safe use of the mask.

 

[AmanoJyaku]

I know, I'll get roasted for daring to question the "abundance of caution" thinking here, but the World Health Organization specifically recommends for younger children to not wear masks at all.

In general, children aged 5 years and under should not be required to wear masks. This advice is based on the safety and overall interest of the child and the capacity to appropriately use a mask with minimal assistance. There may be local requirements for children aged 5 years and under to wear masks, or specific needs in some settings, such as being physically close to someone who is ill. In these circumstances, if the child wears a mask, a parent or other guardian should be within direct line of sight to supervise the safe use of the mask.

That statement does not say the WHO recommends children not wear masks. A recommendation against would mean there is a concern masking may create harm.

The WHO is saying the reduced risk to children means masking may be pointless.

For example, "drinking a glass of water won't cure your cancer. So we don't recommend drinking a glass of water to cure cancer. This does not mean you cannot drink water. Drink water, drink lots of water."

 

[psd]

...the metrics that will trigger changes in suggested precautions will shift from being focused purely on case counts to including information on the severity of cases and hospital capacity.

That there, ladies and germs, is called moving the goal post.


No new knowledge has warranted this goal post to be moved. We have always known about the severity of cases.

I remember whenever anyone wanted to talk about the how not-so-bad COVID-19 might, they were silenced. Countless of hours of news footage of people in ventilators but no footage of the recovered.

But now that its a legit metric?!