CableCARD was meant to free us from the shackles of cable operators' set-top box offerings. Instead, that's the only place it ends up.<BR><BR>Read More
CableCARD (still) goes unloved, except in set-top boxes
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That's <B>not</B> true! I have an HD TiVo and I use two Time Warner cable cards in it...for like two years now.
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I'll second kewl!o (in spirit, since I am sure the headline was meant as an exaggeration), I've got a Tivo Series 3 that I bought the day they were available.<BR><BR>The public needs so much cable card education its pathetic. My parents don't even know what cable cards are and my father is a fairly tech savvy guy.<BR><BR>I'd wager that the average cable consumer doesn't even know they have an option other then the cable provider's box.
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I don't feel an ounce of sympathy for the cable companies. My set top box has crapped out 4 times in the last 2 years. They keep sending me refurbished boxes and there's a big ol' service fee for a tech to come out and look at the box and say, "yep, the hard drive is failing, just like you said over the phone." <BR><BR>I would love, LOVE to use my own gear. One sure fire way to make cable card a success would be to stop requiring a brand new sanctioned HTPC in order to access encrypted digital content. The cable companies are so terrified of "piracy" that they're making cable cards as hard as possible to use (and in my opinion, shooting themselves in the foot). If they allow consumers to add cable card support to existing PCs, I bet cable card adoption would rise (not to mention Vista sales, and hey, AppleTV support, anyone?). Good for the economy, good for the consumer.<BR><BR>now excuse me while I go have some apple pie and watch some baseball.
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TandooriBone:<BR>Your TiVO is a set-top box. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">596 (one-way) TVs and other host devices support the cards, which allow for the decrypting of cable channels without a <B>cable-provided</B> set-top box, but buyers don't seem to care. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>(emphasis mine)
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I'm on Cablevision and I have one multi-stream card in my HD TiVo that works well, handles both tuners and only costs $2 a month. It's really nice to not have a separate cable box to deal with.<BR><BR>A buddy of mine tried to get a cablecard installed in his Sharp Aquos a while back but the technician was not able to get it working. He ended up having to use a box. He's going to give it another try based on my experience.<BR><BR>When I ordered a Samsung 40" LCD earlier this year I couldn't find anything comparable that had a Cablecard slot so I had to use a box on that one.<BR><BR>I'd like to get a new TV in the basement that has a CC slot but a quick look at Crutchfield still only shows 3 units with CC slots out of all the LCD & Plasma TV's they sell.
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I too have a TiVo HD with a pair of cards from TW in it. And I love it since with the cable cards my TiVo tunes faster than my old set-top box and gets the channel information much faster then TW's HD box.<BR><BR>Now I also have a set-top box so that I can still access on-demand and watch channels that have been lost due to their switch to SDV. They are going to offer a tuner, for free, for those channels which is nice, but it's not available yet. Nice to know they don't mind screwing over people (not that everyone didn't have that impression already) but at least wait until the device is ready before blanking out the channels for us cable card users.
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Count me as one of the many happy Tivo CableCARD users. Since setting things up almost two years ago my system has worked flawlessly.
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The cable industry can eat me.<BR><BR><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">When cable files its quarterly CableCARD reports, therefore, we often have the chance to read paragraphs like this: "By contrast, since the 'integration ban' went into effect on July 1, 2007, those 10 companies have already deployed more than 9,766,000 operator-supplied set-top boxes with CableCARDs. Therefore, in less than 18 months, cable operators have deployed more than 24 times as many CableCARD-enabled devices than the total number of CableCARDs requested by customers for use in UDCPs in just over the last four years." <B>And that's because we screwed over the implementation of the CableCARD, didn't train our techs how to install a CableCARD, and further locked down our signal so CableCARD users couldn't get full use of our content. And when tru2way comes out we will do the same because we have a monopoly and no one is going to take that away from us.</B> </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Bold added by me since I felt the quote from the cable industry was incomplete.
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I'd love to have a cablecard if I could actually use it with my media center PC. Unfortunately the way it is now you can only get them working with OEM PCs, and only like 2 or 3 expensive models are available
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I called Time Warner San Diego and asked when I was going to get the Switched Digital box for my TiVO HD (which I've had with cable cards since Oct. '07) and they said by the end of the year. <BR><BR>Uh huh, so far no word, and I'm out of town until the end of the year.<BR><BR>Time Warner has been dragging its feet to make its system work right with cable cards. I think they got cold feet going full force into the Switched Video the end of October, as they said they would, because the FCC has already fined them once for going switched digital without supplying the conversion boxes for TiVO HD and other user-owned set-top boxes.
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It sounds like the cable companies do everything in their power to prove that regualtions only ruin stuff. I think we need more regulation! If I had a nice picture frame style TV, It defeats the purpose of hanging the TV only to have a cable box close by. That sucks!
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I use CableCard with Windows Media Center, and I LOVE IT dearly. The guide is better, I get more storage, adding more storage is easy as pie, media can be streamed around the house, and it can handle every type of media that Vista can support.
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Count me as another TiVo Series 3 owner quite happy with my two CableCARDs. It was a fiasco to get them set up in the first place, requiring three techs nearly a week and five or six different cards to get everything working properly, but since then all the problems I've had have been problems with the cable system, external to my home, not problems with my TiVo or the CableCARDs.<BR><BR>And I have to disagree with the contention that CableCARDs are less attractive than a cable-company-provided set top box because they can't provide two-way services. There might be some truth to that in relation to program guides, at least for the owners of devices that don't provide superior program guides of their own. But video on demand and pay per view? The content providers and cable companies already make most of those services unattractive because of exorbitantly high pricing, and have done so since long before CableCARDs came onto the scene.
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So what bit of hardware can I install in my PC that will let it accept a cable card? Oh that's right, I can't. Cable card is a failure by design, before they even started shipping them they had already said they would be making them into a dead end and replacing them RSN with something else.
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Yep. Tivo has been the real winner here. I left Tivo years ago because I wanted HD. So I settled for a Comcast set-top box. But every time I had to use that infernal thing, I pined for the day I could get back to Tivo. <BR><BR>When they released their Tivo HD, I was able to by using a couple of cableCARDS.<BR><BR>CableCARDS may not be attractive to users of TVs that support them. But they are very attractive to people who want to use a DVR other than the cable companies' set top boxes.
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While I always held out hope for the "idea" of Cablecard, it's be a shaft fest.<BR><BR>Lets rewind 25-30 years. Back when "cable" was new. I remember having a non-cable ready tv, and haven't the cable box with dial on top. Not that big of deal at the time. Move forward to the mid 90's. Everything is cable ready. I can watch something on my TV and record it on my VCR. That's what I call progress.<BR><BR>Fast forward to now. Outside of a Tivo and a craptasic cable provided box what are my choices? REALLY? That's not progress that's an entire organization pulling the wool over everyone's eyes. I don't mind having a card that plugs into my device(s). But I want anything that can record or view to be able to show my programing at anytime. Is that so damn hard?!<BR><BR>And people wonder why my wife clutches to hear 10+ year old VCR so hard...
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Only 596 devices even support cablecard? Out of how many? Over 10000 digital cable capable devices which could have integrated cablecards I'm guessing. <BR><BR>Exactly which TVs are cablecard ready? I have shopped and shopped for a cablecard ready TV and they just don't seem to exist. Every B&M store I have gone to does not carry a cablecard ready tv. <BR><BR>The only devices which really seem to take advantage of cablecards are the HD TiVos, as evidenced by the above posts. <BR><BR>How much you wanna bet that if more TVs were cablecard ready the headline might read along the lines of "CableCARD, loved by TV buyers (and viewers) everywhere"?
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BTW, the Moxi box is now available, so there are <I>two</I> CableCard boxes on the market.
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I tried TWC DVR boxes, and they suck outloud. When through 5 of them. They just keep failing. The lady at the trade-in office blamed me and sent a techie over. He said my setup was fine, and he admitted that the boxes suck. He said it took 7 years for their analog boxes to get the bugs worked out.<BR><BR>So I dumped TWC DVR 2 weeks ago and got a TIVO HD. The multistream Cable Card is being installed Friday. The TIVO is superior so far in every way. Don't listen to the cable rep tell you how one-way communication is limiting. The TIVO can do all the 2-way communicating via the internet. <BR>- Program guide? Check, and better. The TWC guide is frequently more out-of-date than TVGuide.com or the AOL TV Guide. How is that possible? They're the freaking cable TV company!<BR>- On-demand movies? Check, and way more selection (Amazon, Netflix, Disney, YouTube). <BR>- Recording? Check, and more storage capacity in TIVO. <BR>- Ports on the DVR box activated and useful? Check. 70% of the ports on the TWC DVR are inactive.<BR><BR>How do TWC employees show their faces in public with such POS devices?<BR><BR>I can see a day where I get all TV content via HD antenna and the internet, all via TIVO, and canceling TWC. (Wait, TWC is my internet provider! Doh!)
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It seems to me that most CableCARD TVs are RPTVs. I haven't seen a LCD or Plasma <=42" with a CableCARD slot, and very few above that.<BR><BR>(got 3 cards, billed for 1 dual-tuner card for the Tivo, and the single card for the set is no-charge..)
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Tivo lover ++<BR><BR>Also:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">In addition to appearing in high-end products, CableCARDs have generally not been able to access two-way features such as interactive programming guides and pay-per-view movies, making them less attractive. It also doesn't help that cable operators have sometimes adopted switched digital video (SDV) systems that save bandwidth while breaking many third-party CableCARD devices. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Not so much anymore - cable companies are starting to roll out so called "tuning resolvers" that attach to your Tivo and allow you to tune into all the SDV channels.
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ah! everyone is missing the real story here.<BR><BR>the reason the cable companies hate cablecards is that they support third-party devices, like TiVo - which is what the FCC intended. that makes it impossible for the cable companies to "capture" (or really, trap) a consumer for exclusive sales of all kinds of extra services via the cable company's proprietary set top box. a cablecard equipped TV bypasses their box portal, and the "smart" ones can access on-line internet service alternatives. <BR><BR>they all wish they could do what AT&T does with its internet U-Verse service - cross-market all kinds of media services in addition to basic TV to a captive user base that it controls via proprietary hardware/software 100%.
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Cablecard is all good untill cablecompanies move your favorite channel to switched digital video and the cablecard cant tune that in.<BR><BR>PS cablecompanies hate them because they dont work for a lot of things. <BR><BR>The cablecompanies hate the boxes. they are like 600 each for the non dvr ones. they do not make there money back on them. <BR><BR>Heck look at cablevision trying to do dvr through the net with only the basic cablebox.
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The companies don't seem to want you to use CableCard. Cox does not making get set up with a CableCard easy. It requires a truck roll which is a $50 charge. All the tech did was call in the MAC address and plug in the card. It would have been nice if I could have done that without the fee...
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Some friends of mine have built a new house with a sophisticated all-room digital media system. They bought high-end computer tuners with cable cards to provide TV source. My friend has had nothing but problems. Apparently, the stuff never works, and everyone (ATI, Microsoft, Comcast) end up pointing their fingers at each other and blaming someone else. He says that most of the time any Comcast had to be sent, they knew nothing about cable cards, and ended up being useless.
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kewl!o:<BR>That's <B>not</B> true! I have an HD TiVo and I use two Time Warner cable cards in it...for like two years now. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>You might want to call them and see if they will swap out your two single stream cards for a multistream card. Saved my $6/mo. on card rental.<BR><BR>Also using TiVo HD
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by majortom1981@aol.com:<BR>Cablecard is all good untill cablecompanies move your favorite channel to switched digital video and the cablecard cant tune that in. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Read my post above: that's no longer true, shipmate.<BR><BR><BR><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Alan H.:<BR><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by kewl!o:<BR>That's <B>not</B> true! I have an HD TiVo and I use two Time Warner cable cards in it...for like two years now. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>You might want to call them and see if they will swap out your two single stream cards for a multistream card. Saved my $6/mo. on card rental.<BR><BR>Also using TiVo HD </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Depends on which model he has - the Tivo HD (newer model with no front panel display) supports the M cards, the original Series 3 (the first HD model with the front panel display) doesn't...
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I had written up a really long response to this, but I really want to make only a couple of points.<BR><BR>First, Cable Labs makes it extremely difficult and expensive to gain device approval. Never before has there been such a gatekeeper to TV technology. It is for this reason that there are only two independent DVR technologies and a couple of hundred TV models on the market. You can be sure that the Koreans would be selling DVRs if they could, right?<BR><BR>Second, CableCard availability is not publicized /at all/. I have even had representatives of Comcast not know what it was when I called to order them.<BR><BR>If the cable company really wanted to support CableCard they would do things like offer Tivo devices to their customers as premium offerings. They don't; they're not interested.<BR><BR>Even when a customer asks for CableCard they try to talk them out of it. "It doesn't support the guide" and "You can't order On-Demand" are two things I heard every time I ordered a CableCard. What's holding up these features in CableCard devices? Cable Labs has yet to approve the 2.0 spec. Why not?<BR><BR>Lastly, if it were not for CableCard there would be no working HD DVR systems on the market. I've tried the Motorola HD DVR box and it was a complete piece of crap, the single worst piece of consumer electronics I have ever used (and that was a pretty high bar to jump over).<BR><BR>CableCard gives consumers two device options that simply would not be available otherwise. It gives them working devices when the cable companies offer no good solutions. It gives much greater flexibility to AV buffs and home theater designers who were frustrated by the total lack of high-quality offerings from the cable companies. Without CableCard we'd be stuck with whatever piece of crap hardware the cable company deigned to make available, just like with the non-DVR set top boxes.<BR><BR>Remember: Picture-in-picture didn't come from the cable company. DVRs didn't come from the cable company. Those things were done by companies that had the ability to create devices against an open specification. Cable-ready TVs with multiple tuners have been the norm for a long time, and TiVo made DVR a popular term. You never would have seen either of those if there were no outside devices.<BR><BR>If Congress really wants it to take off they should remove authority for the devices from Cable Labs entirely. That entity does not exist to promote CableCards, and it doesn't do a good job of ensuring interoperability either (as evidenced by how hard it is to get TVs to work with CableCards). It exists primarily to control who can play in the market, which is to say to keep the market closed to competition.<BR><BR>In the end I think they will succeed in this, but lose the war anyway. The device manufacturers have already decided that they can't get CableCard devices into peoples' homes, and are building internet devices. Download-and-store devices are starting to gain popularity. iTunes proved it can be done, and more and more content retailers like NetFlix are getting into the act. There will come a time when there is a critical mass of content available a-la carte or by subscription and a lot of people will opt out of cable completely.<BR><BR>I would do it today if I could get most of the stuff I watch as downloads. Paying the cable company $100 a month is ridiculous when there are really only a half dozen shows I watch regularly, and they don't even offer some of the content I would really like (such as BBC broadcasts of MotoGP or any World Rally Championship programming at all). I'd rather pay for a subscription to the shows I actually want to watch, and a-la carte for other stuff. I'd be cheaper for me and I'd get more of what I really want to watch.<BR><BR>The time is not ripe yet for that kind of service, in part because the infrastructure is just not there for live streaming -- really necessary for sports -- but it's getting pretty close and when it does the market for cable will shrink noticeably.<BR><BR>jim frost<BR>jimf@frostbytes.com
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I recently received a Tivo HD for my birthday and I love it. Getting Comcast to install the cablecards was an exercise in frustration that I'm sure the majority of average users would not be willing to deal with. Bottom line is that Comcast does not want to support the cablecards and since they were being forced to by the FCC, they do everything in their power to make the switch to a cablecard device both frustrating and difficult.
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Someone already said it...consumers don't realize what is out there.<BR><BR>2 HD Cards in an MCE box...why would you do anything else? I have DVR and HD in every room in the house with an extender or XBox 360 and I can view all recorded content (as opposed to Tivo where you need to be attached to that box). Oh yeah, and pictures, and stored video (personal and DVD rip), and internet TV, and browsing, and music.
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Even though it was tough to get my TiVo and CableCARD set up with Time Warner, I'm glad I did. TiVo just kicks the ever-loving crap out of TW's boxes. TiVo has a marketing problem, though, because most people think that the cable company DVR is the same as a TiVo. It isn't. It doesn't even have much of the basic functionality that a DVR should have (like not recording duplicate shows).
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Disclaimer, I've worked in the cable industry for 6 years now...<BR><BR>Why don't we ever see people talking about the simple fact that both telco-video and satellite lock you into their set tops also? It seems like only cable gets to be the target when this topic comes up. Last time I checked you actually had to PAY DirectTV a "lease upgrade fee" to LEASE an HD-DVR. (assuming you pass their credit check) With the level of competition that exists with telco-video, satellite and IP I think it's pretty dishonest the FCC should be setting regulations on how the cable industry can try to maximize their profits by pushing VOD services (which generate a ton of revenue, especially XXX) Everyone wants lower prices but then this massively expensive separable security mandate comes along which translates directly into higher prices for customers AND it has the potential to stunt the biggest single video related revenue growth for cable companies in the process AND people are upset about their bill going up? There's a lot of blame to go around but it doesn't take a genius to figure out prices are going to go up if you force the industry to adopt expensive technologies, limit their potential for revenue growth, and put them at an unfair playing field with their two biggest competitors. <BR><BR>There are a lot of examples from the FCC like this. For example, the ability for cable companies to reclaim analog channel space is greatly complicated by the fact they cannot offer a cheap set top and go all-digital. The industry had to invent the "DTA" which is a total hack and will, ultimately, be ditched as soon as an FCC chair comes in who is pro-cable and rescinds the separable security ruling. Everyone wants more HD and more DOCSIS data channels but the FCC is making it a lot harder to free up the space needed for them. Doesn't make much sense. <BR><BR>There's also the franchising issue -- which is more of a state government thing. For decades cable had to build service out to areas that were not profitable because their franchise agreement included an obligation to service everyone. Then telco-video comes along and they are free to cherry pick the most profitable areas to service while ignoring the areas that they won't make money on for a long time. (if ever) Again, does that seem fair? Telcos have had just as much, and more, help from the government getting a strangle hold over a geographic region yet they're exempt from this rule for what reason? <BR><BR><BR>There's also the public access issue. Cable companies have to fund local programming, offer studios, camera men, etc as a public service. Telco-video and satellite services do not. In fact, in my state the incumbent cable companies have to give their public access video feeds to AT&T (for free) Fair? We're going to be funding and producing 2 channels for a competitor. <BR><BR><BR>Anyway, it's a little off topic at this point but it's interesting to see some of the rulings that have come out of the FCC in the last 8 years or so that put cable at a big competitive disadvantage in the name of helping the customer. Which is puzzling since almost every ruling they've made has directly or in-directly increased prices. The real goal behind these FCC regulations is to drive customers to competitors to "level the playing field" but that means everyone who isn't deemed profitable enough to service by telco-video is getting screwed too.
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I was shocked the other day when the an ad for the local cable company actually mentioned cable cards. I'm about ready to ditch the shitty motorola DVRs from them and get a refurb TivoHD since they're jacking their DVR prices up to 23 bucks a month which is bullshit.
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SleepDirt:<BR>Disclaimer, I've worked in the cable industry for 6 years now...<BR><BR>Why don't we ever see people talking about the simple fact that both telco-video and satellite lock you into their set tops also? It seems like only cable gets to be the target when this topic comes up. Last time I checked you actually had to PAY DirectTV a "lease upgrade fee" to LEASE an HD-DVR. (assuming you pass their credit check) With the level of competition that exists with telco-video, satellite and IP I think it's pretty dishonest the FCC should be setting regulations on how the cable industry can try to maximize their profits by pushing VOD services (which generate a ton of revenue, especially XXX) Everyone wants lower prices but then this massively expensive separable security mandate comes along which translates directly into higher prices for customers AND it has the potential to stunt the biggest single video related revenue growth for cable companies in the process AND people are upset about their bill going up? There's a lot of blame to go around but it doesn't take a genius to figure out prices are going to go up if you force the industry to adopt expensive technologies, limit their potential for revenue growth, and put them at an unfair playing field with their two biggest competitors. <BR><BR>There are a lot of examples from the FCC like this. For example, the ability for cable companies to reclaim analog channel space is greatly complicated by the fact they cannot offer a cheap set top and go all-digital. The industry had to invent the "DTA" which is a total hack and will, ultimately, be ditched as soon as an FCC chair comes in who is pro-cable and rescinds the separable security ruling. Everyone wants more HD and more DOCSIS data channels but the FCC is making it a lot harder to free up the space needed for them. Doesn't make much sense. <BR><BR>There's also the franchising issue -- which is more of a state government thing. For decades cable had to build service out to areas that were not profitable because their franchise agreement included an obligation to service everyone. Then telco-video comes along and they are free to cherry pick the most profitable areas to service while ignoring the areas that they won't make money on for a long time. (if ever) Again, does that seem fair? Telcos have had just as much, and more, help from the government getting a strangle hold over a geographic region yet they're exempt from this rule for what reason? <BR><BR><BR>There's also the public access issue. Cable companies have to fund local programming, offer studios, camera men, etc as a public service. Telco-video and satellite services do not. In fact, in my state the incumbent cable companies have to give their public access video feeds to AT&T (for free) Fair? We're going to be funding and producing 2 channels for a competitor. <BR><BR><BR>Anyway, it's a little off topic at this point but it's interesting to see some of the rulings that have come out of the FCC in the last 8 years or so that put cable at a big competitive disadvantage in the name of helping the customer. Which is puzzling since almost every ruling they've made has directly or in-directly increased prices. The real goal behind these FCC regulations is to drive customers to competitors to "level the playing field" but that means everyone who isn't deemed profitable enough to service by telco-video is getting screwed too. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>They had to invent something because the first version of the cable card was so bad by design that the cable company figured nobody would use it and it wouldn't affect them. The second version was a rush because the fcc told them to eat their own dogfood and use it, but they waited till the last minute trying/failing to force the fcc to not make them do so in court. This has been going on for years and years now and the cable company has still been chanting soon soon there will be a better one! Every aspect of cable cards from functionality to device certification is designed to be an abject failure.<BR><BR>As to not being able to buy your own directtv reciever... that seems inaccurate with only seconds of research and knowing people who bought their own box.
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It's really two simple stories that have repeated for years.<BR><BR>Cable companies are out to get as much money as they can from customers <B>and</B> a government regulation is poorly thought out and forced on everyone to poor results, despite its positive intention.
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by saarbruck:<BR>...<BR>One sure fire way to make cable card a success would be to stop requiring a brand new sanctioned HTPC in order to access encrypted digital content. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Bingo! I would seriously consider returning to cable and using them if I could throw them in a MythTV box or equivalent. I'm not even sure it was about piracy as much as trying as hard as possible to make this initiative fail so that they could turn around and say "told you so". The FCC didn't go to far in mandating Cablecard, as usual, they didn't go far enough. They should have mandated them and made them open so anyone could use them (by open, I mean available to all, and documented such that anyone with a clue could use them).<BR><BR>Sigh.
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