Binance has a plan to save crypto—if it’s not too late

Crypto exchanges want to prove that the market can thrive after the FTX collapse.

See full article...

 

[Akemi]

Binance already proved just the opposite when a single Tweet led to FTX's demise. I haven't a tear to shed for them.

 

[zyr1987]

The more I read, the more FTX sounds like a giant Ponzi.

Hell, the CEO accidentally described ponzi months before the collapse: https://finbold.com/ftx-founder-accidentally-described-ponzi-scheme-months-before-crash/

 

[LuDux]

It's kinda gross articles like this are showing up on Ars, not gonna lie.

 

[erktrek]

I'm sure I will get downvoted into oblivion here, and I am hardly a crypto apologist, but here goes:

The stock market is also a joke, perpetuated by fraud but backed by governments. How many people here remember Bernie Madoff, the 2008 housing crisis or even know how much the US government has spent buying stocks over the last 6 years to prop up the stock market (hint: it is A LOT)? Ever looked at the absurd valuation of Tesla? Do you wonder (or even know) why big name brokers sell you shares of a company and then lend those shares out so others can short the stock and possibly lower the value of your investment?

So yes, Crypto sucks, no question. But so do the alternatives which at the moment just suck a little less. Unless you are stashing your cash under your mattress.

Yep you are correct - this is a crypto apologist talking point and a false analogy. At the end of the day you do have actual ownership of the company you bought stock and the rights therein no matter what the perception of how valuable a company is.

With crypto you have nothing but suspect promises and assurances from sketchy people and buggy/easily exploited smart contracts. DAOs are not ownership in a business no matter what "rights" they appear to convey.

Bernie Madoff was a ponzi scheme that used the veneer of legit investments to sucker many people and is only tangential to the stock market itself. With crypto the scams are internal to the model thanks to "code is law" and "decentralization".

 

[ScifiGeek]

The more I read, the more FTX sounds like a giant Ponzi.

Hell, the CEO accidentally described ponzi months before the collapse: https://finbold.com/ftx-founder-accidentally-described-ponzi-scheme-months-before-crash/

What crypto coin isn't basically a giant Ponzi scheme? Valuation for all the (other than real asset backed stable coins, which aren't changing in value) coins is based solely on greater fool theory. The next fool paying more than you did for something that has ZERO intrinsic value.

It's simply a greed driven cycle like Tulip Bulbs, except that in the end when it all collapses, even Tulip Bulbs had some intrinsic value, and crytpo coins don't.

It isn't just FTX that should collapse. It's Bitcoin, Ethereum, etc that should also collapse, because they are intrinsically zero value, and it's only the willing greater fools that keep propping it up.

 

[Shavano]

How many times does Lucy have to take the ball away before Charlie Brown realises he needs to stop falling for the same old trick. Crypto is a pyramid scheme, the only people who made money were those who got in early and were smart enough to cash out and run the hell away before it crashed and burned.

Sort of. I think there are many people who are still invested but have sold shares for more cash than they ever put in. Not a majority of course. That's not how pyramid schemes work. It's not like it's an investment in a profitable enterprise.

 

[graylshaped]

Narrator voice: Too late.

 

[galahad05]

I'd heard that it was Binance itself which engineered a "run on the bank" of FTX....their big competitor.....

And now I'm hearing that they're coming in as little Angels to "save the day"? Really now....

 

[graylshaped]

When, internationally, crypto exchanges that hold customer funds subscribe to these common sense provisions, the industry has a chance to be what it claims to be, instead of the shill game that it actually is.

 

[graylshaped]

Wait. Cryptobros don't trust banks, but they use exchanges. Who have reserves. Which are kept, I assume, in banks.

What am I missing here?

The banks are in countries whose regulations are... suspect. "Offshore accounts" is the term often used.

 

[Wheels Of Confusion]

When, internationally, crypto exchanges that hold customer funds subscribe to these common sense provisions, the industry has a chance to be what it claims to be, instead of the shill game that it actually is.

Even then it won't, because it doesn't trade currencies. Just electronic commodities.

 

[freaq]

My my surprise is that this hasn’t triggered a dotcom like recession.

Theres billions that just evaporated, and its again clear it was just hot air nothing more.

But somehow we’re not crashing yet.
I swaer if this crypto crap persists it will eventually trigger a dotcom level crash.

Except dotcom eventually lived up to the hype, the internet did get big, I doubt crypto ever will.

 

[graylshaped]

Even then it won't, because it doesn't trade currencies. Just electronic commodities.

Thoughtful regulation could address that, though I agree it is unlikely giving the money these companies are throwing around to buy stadium naming rights and fund PACs.

 

[Derecho Imminent]

Even assuming that crypto science could be trusted and have a valid use, how could we ever trust corps to be running it?

 

[effgee]

... [Zhao] announced that Binance will publish a transparent “proof of reserves,” to demonstrate it keeps enough cash on hand to fund withdrawals,...

Two thoughts on that noblest of gestures...

1. Call me when the headline has changed from "will publish transparent proof" to "has published transparent proof AND has been verified independently".
2. Even assuming a successful completion of "1." above, that proves diddly-squat about the crypto industry as a whole. Sure, one exchange may perhaps not be rotten to the core. But would you entrust your money to Citi if they'd just proven that they were the only trustworthy bank on the planet?

Yeah, me neither. If the colossal dumpster fire that is the global crypto industry got snuffed out tomorrow, the planet would be all the better for it.

 

[galahad05]

Here's a Guardian article that goes day by day on just some of the thing Binance did before and during the FTX collapse--what their role was (and I'm hearing this is just the tip of the iceberg)

https://www.theguardian.com/technol...llapse-cryptocurrency-exchange-changpeng-zhao

 

[PokemonPets]

They are the leader of great ponzi scheme. Yes exchanges are the pillars of great ponzi scheme. And their primary instrument is bitcoin

Bitcoin has some instrict value due to being heavily used by hackers and trade of illegal and tax evaded goods

All others are just scamming tools

 

[LuDux]

All that being said, cryptos aren't "all a scam". A high percentage of the actors in the industry are, no doubt. But there are a lot of fundamentally-useful technologies that are just necessarily going to be employed widely because they are the only tool for the job. It will take some time, but what I think few people realize (mostly because of the veneer that the ftx/crypto.com ads put on everything) is that everything is still very much in its infancy. We're at the low level development stages still, and it's going to take years before even the developer tools are at a place where they can be widely useful.

Name one. After over a decade we're still at 'low level development stages'? The whole thing is trash from the ground up.

 

[ThatGuyFromEarth]

“It’s a good learning moment for the industry….” So the “industry“ is willing to learn something?…
Or even capable?
I find that highly doubtful… actually kinda of funny if it wasn’t so much of a blatantly stock statement one gives when they intend to keep doing whatever it is they’ve been doing with no intention of changing.

 

[DriveBy]

I think it went up while shady businesses believed transactions can't be traced. Then it was just inertia and now it's falling back. Uncontrolled re-entry. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Blockchain concept still good for some practical applications though..

Predictably, you don't list any...

 

[houligan]

I think it went up while shady businesses believed transactions can't be traced. Then it was just inertia and now it's falling back. Uncontrolled re-entry. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. Blockchain concept still good for some practical applications though..

There is no practical application where a Blockchain is better than a traditional database.

 

[TVPaulD]

Interesting that VOX of all websites is now being vocal about Crypto instead of being its cheerleader as it has in its past. is that there must be a lot of executives that got burned by the advice of Nilay Patel over at The Verge.

He was the biggest pusher of Crypto going. As was the Verge. I remember an article where they literally used FOMO to show how exclusive some dinner party was, implying if you could attend you might as well be in with the Hollywood elite clique.

And then you had his article about how good Crypto is for the Ukraine with its war with Russia. That's right, Mr Patel would have had you believe that Crypto was everything. But then that's typical for your general 'woke' person. Scratch beneath that particular veneer and you'll truly see some dirt and grime, hence why they are so keen for you to attack the people they are pointing the finger at.

It's an age old tactic. The Spanish Church used to use "heathen" and "witch" to excuse its behaviour. These days the woke use "racist" and "far right" in exactly the same manner.

You only have to witness an article about Twitter over here at Ars to see this BS in effect. When you have a bunch of the pious attacking one person with so much sheer hatred, and adhom attacks, but Ars does nothing to remove despite it being against their terms and conditions of posting.

It's always okay to break their own rules as and when the need arises.

But then, that's the pious for you. Go and watch FIFA's boss in action. He uses the exact same tactics the pious in the West, and here on Ars use to disguise his own terrible behaviour.

And the knee taking footballers themselves are not much better. Happy to take a knee for a dead American felon who puts guns to pregnant women's stomach, but will they take a knee for all the dead slaves that built the stadiums they are playing in...

Ha ha ha.. What do you think...

There's a reason that over time I became this jaded misanthrope. Can you guess why yet.

As far as I can tell, everyone on this planet is full of shit. Everyone. And what annoys me the most, is when they believe themselves to be all high and mighty, and give themselves the platform to sit on their lofty towers to pass judgement on all those beneath them.

Including myself!!

Username checks out.

 

[no_one_important]

<snip>

All that being said, cryptos aren't "all a scam". A high percentage of the actors in the industry are, no doubt. But there are a lot of fundamentally-useful technologies that are just necessarily going to be employed widely because they are the only tool for the job. It will take some time, but what I think few people realize (mostly because of the veneer that the ftx/crypto.com ads put on everything) is that everything is still very much in its infancy. We're at the low level development stages still, and it's going to take years before even the developer tools are at a place where they can be widely useful.

[Citation needed].

Show your work.

 

[Deleted member 276317]

[SNIP]
There's a reason that over time I became this jaded misanthrope. Can you guess why yet.
[SNIP]

You're unable to properly use question marks?

 

[houligan]

The more I read, the more FTX sounds like a giant Ponzi.

Hell, the CEO accidentally described ponzi months before the collapse: https://finbold.com/ftx-founder-accidentally-described-ponzi-scheme-months-before-crash/

It was not a Ponzi, in that early investors were not paid based on later ones. Though that is how many crypto projects operate.
It was just straight up theft. SBF lost all his money making bad trades via Alameda Research. He then decided to tap customer deposits at FTX to try to make money back. Because it wasn't him that was wrong, it was the markets.
Real banks/exchanges are not allowed to touch customer deposits with their investment arms (anymore, they used to be and it predictably led to problems).
Once Alameda gambled away all it's money the correct thing to do would have been to just let it go bankrupt.

 

[Emon]

[Citation needed].

Show your work.

There’s nothing to show because it’s bullshit. A lot of people keep saying “blockchains are useful” but can’t propose a single thing.

Anyone saying “blockchains are an amazing technology that have uses elsewhere” simply don’t understand that distributed databases are already a thing. And that you could store your cryptographic proof or signing data or whatever in the damn database.

The original concept was a distributed Merkle tree with a consensus protocol over the top. It isn’t that revolutionary and anyone claiming it is doesn’t have the necessary background in distributed systems.

 

[DriveBy]

I'm sure I will get downvoted into oblivion here, and I am hardly a crypto apologist, but here goes:

The stock market is also a joke, perpetuated by fraud but backed by governments. How many people here remember Bernie Madoff, the 2008 housing crisis or even know how much the US government has spent buying stocks over the last 6 years to prop up the stock market (hint: it is A LOT)? Ever looked at the absurd valuation of Tesla? Do you wonder (or even know) why big name brokers sell you shares of a company and then lend those shares out so others can short the stock and possibly lower the value of your investment?

So yes, Crypto sucks, no question. But so do the alternatives which at the moment just suck a little less. Unless you are stashing your cash under your mattress.

None of what you typed is correct.

 

[Happy Medium]

There’s nothing to show because it’s bullshit. A lot of people keep saying “blockchains are useful” but can’t propose a single thing.

Anyone saying “blockchains are an amazing technology that have uses elsewhere” simply don’t understand that distributed databases are already a thing. And that you could store your cryptographic proof or signing data or whatever in the damn database.

The original concept was a distributed Merkle tree with a consensus protocol over the top. It isn’t that revolutionary and anyone claiming it is doesn’t have the necessary background in distributed systems.

I think its always hilarious when crypto-evangelists say crypto has "fundamentally-useful technologies" and NEVER SAY WHAT USE THEY ARE. Come on! If it's so useful, tell us what use it is besides money laundering, scams, and fooling gullible people out of money by saying its cash but "on a blockchain!"

 

[DriveBy]

Interesting that VOX of all websites is now being vocal about Crypto instead of being its cheerleader as it has in its past. is that there must be a lot of executives that got burned by the advice of Nilay Patel over at The Verge.

He was the biggest pusher of Crypto going. As was the Verge. I remember an article where they literally used FOMO to show how exclusive some dinner party was, implying if you could attend you might as well be in with the Hollywood elite clique.

And then you had his article about how good Crypto is for the Ukraine with its war with Russia. That's right, Mr Patel would have had you believe that Crypto was everything. But then that's typical for your general 'woke' person. Scratch beneath that particular veneer and you'll truly see some dirt and grime, hence why they are so keen for you to attack the people they are pointing the finger at.

It's an age old tactic. The Spanish Church used to use "heathen" and "witch" to excuse its behaviour. These days the woke use "racist" and "far right" in exactly the same manner.

You only have to witness an article about Twitter over here at Ars to see this BS in effect. When you have a bunch of the pious attacking one person with so much sheer hatred, and adhom attacks, but Ars does nothing to remove despite it being against their terms and conditions of posting.

It's always okay to break their own rules as and when the need arises.

But then, that's the pious for you. Go and watch FIFA's boss in action. He uses the exact same tactics the pious in the West, and here on Ars use to disguise his own terrible behaviour.

And the knee taking footballers themselves are not much better. Happy to take a knee for a dead American felon who puts guns to pregnant women's stomach, but will they take a knee for all the dead slaves that built the stadiums they are playing in...

Ha ha ha.. What do you think...

There's a reason that over time I became this jaded misanthrope. Can you guess why yet.

As far as I can tell, everyone on this planet is full of shit. Everyone. And what annoys me the most, is when they believe themselves to be all high and mighty, and give themselves the platform to sit on their lofty towers to pass judgement on all those beneath them.

Including myself!!

Username checks out.

 

[bjn]

Stefan Berger, a German member of the European Parliament (MEP) who is leading the effort on the new legislation. “The FTX case is the Lehman Brothers moment for crypto. What the cryptosphere now needs is trust, and to build trust you need clear rules and regulatory clarity.”

Cryptocurrencies have always been designed for lack of trust between actors. My guess is the original designers didn't foresee that people would naturally centralize to profit off the system. The financial sharks moving into the exchange business have the advantage of knowing all the tricks that resulted in regulation of traditional financial markets. Caveat emptor, small investors.

They centralised because the underlying technology is so crufty, slow and shit nobody but a nerd would/could use it. 10 transactions per second. Woot! Exchanges are a way to get around that. Which are basically banks, but totally unregulated, looking after your techno tokens.

 

[Cart_catalog]

Questions for those still in the Crypto Industry.
Did any of you have any idea what was going on at FTX?
Should you have?

 

[Fancy Internet Person]

So when FANCYCOIN goes "to the moon", where is the equivalent in cash reserves going to come from? Or are they expecting their customers to have wallets for FANCYCOINs and BTCs and ETHs and RANDOMPONZICOINs set up when they come for withdrawals?

Who told you about FANCYCOIN?

 

[nimble]

Stefan Berger, a German member of the European Parliament (MEP) who is leading the effort on the new legislation. “The FTX case is the Lehman Brothers moment for crypto. What the cryptosphere now needs is trust, and to build trust you need clear rules and regulatory clarity.”

Cryptocurrencies have always been designed for lack of trust between actors. My guess is the original designers didn't foresee that people would naturally centralize to profit off the system. The financial sharks moving into the exchange business have the advantage of knowing all the tricks that resulted in regulation of traditional financial markets. Caveat emptor, small investors.

The original designers cared about making sure that the price of their buttons generally always went up, to maximise fear of missing out and herd instinct. Hence the increasing difficulty of mining and the limit on the overall number of buttons, which make no economic sense for a currency. Not sure they anticipated all the ramshackle not-banking infrastructure built on top of their schemes, but it sure helped keeping on dragging in more and more people and their money.

 

[bjn]

Git is a blockchain and is extremely useful, but it predated crypto by several years.

Notably, large useful companies and products are built with git. None are built with crypto.

Merkle trees (useful) are not block chains (useless). You need to layer on the distributed verification bullshit to make it a blockchain.

 

[Dota2SuperFan]

There’s nothing to show because it’s bullshit. A lot of people keep saying “blockchains are useful” but can’t propose a single thing.

Anyone saying “blockchains are an amazing technology that have uses elsewhere” simply don’t understand that distributed databases are already a thing. And that you could store your cryptographic proof or signing data or whatever in the damn database.

The original concept was a distributed Merkle tree with a consensus protocol over the top. It isn’t that revolutionary and anyone claiming it is doesn’t have the necessary background in distributed systems.

But these distributed databases, can you use them to create tokens? Preferably with a supply of a QUAD TRILLION tokens so we can wash trade a small supply of them to increase the book value of these “assets.” If not, how else are we going to get billion dollar loans to YOLO with and play VC with?

 

[brionl]

How to save crypto, by binance:

1) Give binance all your crypto.

2) Binance makes lots of money from your crypto.

3) Crypto is saved!

secret step 4) RUG PULL

Well, that's what I was expecting. But after reading the article it sounds more like they are trying to reinvent TNFDIC (Totally Not Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation).