Bethesda Remaster Leaks

[Nauls]

Remaster mania! Tired of playing 2nd fiddle to the golden child Skyrim over the last 12 years, Oblivion and Fallout 3 are getting the remaster treatment this time.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulta...livion-remaster-dishonored-3/?sh=4b22a7176e2eInterested in how these pan out. I got into the series with ESV and FO4 and never went back to play the previous titles. And at this point it was mainly the age of the games that was keeping me away, so maybe this would be a good opportunity to finally give them a try.

Edit - Didn't intend this to be a separate thread, but in hindsight probably should have. Thanks mods!

 

[invertedpanda]

I dunno.. Part of me just feels "Eh" about those titles. I mean, I liked Oblivion, but it wasn't Morrowind (and the main story's gameplay was pretty meh). FO3 was good, but.. Does it really need a remaster?

 

[Xavin]

Whether it's a Windows thing or an XBox app thing is... kind of irrelevant? Both made by Microsoft, the XBox app is installed by default, ads and notifications are enabled by default, it's more bloatware and advertising you have to go find settings for and deliberately turn off. It's not a great look for Microsoft IMO.

My work laptop came with Windows 11 installed, so I've been using it for about a year now, and I am deeply unimpressed, enough that I actually downloaded Steve Gibson's mildly cringy but effective GRC InControl tool and locked my home PC to Windows 10. (You can do it other ways, but it really is a very easy tool.)

I mean, at this point they are basically giving away windows for free to consumers, so a few unobtrusive ads I turned off long enough ago I don't remember how is a small price to pay.

Aside from the taskbar (I use Start All Back to make it like it was) Windows 11 is better in every way. Tabs in file explorer are the thing I miss the most on my work computer that's still on windows 10.

 

[CPX]

Bethesda's sure interested in announcing a remaster project after just announcing they were focusing on ES6 five years after announcing the thing. I find it difficult to believe Microsoft tolerates this kind of gap between major titles from anything not its OS team.

 

[Ardax]

Does it really need a remaster?

Not really. But getting the games running on the current version of the engine would probably be a significant enough effort getting materials, textures, and lighting to be close enough to the original games that it's going to turn into a remaster in the end anyway.

But, like, they could punt that off to a subcontracted studio and minimize the drain on the main BGS teams.

MS owns all the assets -- they should take New Vegas along for the ride too.

 

[Diabolical]

Bethesda's sure interested in announcing a remaster project after just announcing they were focusing on ES6 five years after announcing the thing. I find it difficult to believe Microsoft tolerates this kind of gap between major titles from anything not its OS team.

Critically, the remasters and the Dishonored 3 stuff was all leaked, not announced. We’ll never know the actual intended timelines from announcement to release. Second, Elder Scrolls 6 was ‘announced’ almost two years before Microsoft finalized the acquisition Zenimax.

—
My thoughts on the leak?

1)Basically, the only thing we can take away from this is that a publisher has games under development. Wow. Wonders never cease.

2)Also, no faith whatsoever in anything Arcane makes for a Dishonored 3 to be any good, given Death Loop and RedFall. Colantonio seems to have taken all the good ideas and game direction with him when he left.

 

[Tom Foolery]

By the time they come out with the remaster of FO3 and Oblivion, it will be 15-20 years since I played them. More than enough time to justify a replay, and on a newer version of the engine, with all the DLC added as part of the package? Count me in.

 

[malor]

I dunno.. Part of me just feels "Eh" about those titles. I mean, I liked Oblivion, but it wasn't Morrowind (and the main story's gameplay was pretty meh). FO3 was good, but.. Does it really need a remaster?

If they fix the bugs in that janky, nasty engine, it might be worth a look.

Oblivion, OTOH, is totally forgettable. Ask me how I know.

 

[Mister E. Meat]

Critically, the remasters and the Dishonored 3 stuff was all leaked, not announced. We’ll never know the actual intended timelines from announcement to release. Second, Elder Scrolls 6 was ‘announced’ almost two years before Microsoft finalized the acquisition Zenimax.

—
My thoughts on the leak?

1)Basically, the only thing we can take away from this is that a publisher has games under development. Wow. Wonders never cease.

2)Also, no faith whatsoever in anything Arcane makes for a Dishonored 3 to be any good, given Death Loop and RedFall. Colantonio seems to have taken all the good ideas and game direction with him when he left.

DeathLoop was decent enough

 

[Sulphur]

2)Also, no faith whatsoever in anything Arcane makes for a Dishonored 3 to be any good, given Death Loop and RedFall. Colantonio seems to have taken all the good ideas and game direction with him when he left.

Not quite true. Dishonored 2 was a Harvey Smith joint, and I thought it was one of the best things Arkane had put out, alongside Prey (which was Colantonio). Dishonored 3 stands a chance if the same design team's still around... and if they're still making it.

Redfall has its own, sad development history, which makes it clear that a lot of factors contributed to it turning out the way it did. I think if they'd had more resources and direction, it would have been moderately successful at least. And yeah, echoing Mister E. Meat, Deathloop wasn't outstanding from what I've heard, but it was fine.

 

[Ryan B.]

If they fix the bugs in that janky, nasty engine, it might be worth a look.

Oblivion, OTOH, is totally forgettable. Ask me how I know.

I remember Oblivion for pioneering purchasable cosmetics (horse armor). I never actually played the game. If I play any ES game it would be Skyrim; it's been sitting in my backlog for years...

 

[Deleted member 14629]

I remember Oblivion for pioneering purchasable cosmetics (horse armor). I never actually played the game. If I play any ES game it would be Skyrim; it's been sitting in my backlog for years...

My take on the three:

1. Morrowind: Monumentally abusable with how skills and abilities grew. Decent modding community made game better to look at. Guild stories fun and different. Beeeg.
2. Oblivion: Visibly much better looking game, story not as fun as Morrowind. Modding community really came into their own. Skills still abusable, but not Morrowind levels of hilarity. Ultimately, the "middle sibling" of the three, where it's kinda in the middle of jank versus good.
3. Skyrim: Beautiful. The scenery, not the people. They were still "Bethesda Ugly". Made even more amazing by modders. So much organic storytelling and side stories. Not as funny as Morrowind, but arguably a lot more mature. Skills much harder to hilariously abuse. Fully mature modding community made Skyrim their own.

Morrowind is kinda peak "jank as fun" gameplay, and Skyrim is the current pinnacle of maturing that world and gameplay. Oblivion has lots of good stories in it, but just doesn't stand out enough between its siblings. It's not bad, but I would be surprised if a large chunk of people ranked it top of those three.

 

[Quarthinos]

I guess Arena and Daggerfall aren't worthy of consideration because they were just plain trash?

I know that I started Arena, got lost in a procedural dungeon, and never bothered to play again. Not sure if it actually had a "win" condition? I know Daggerfall had a main quest, but I don't think I ever found the start of it, or maybe its old enough that the only available quest tracker was pencil and paper?

 

[Ardax]

Fully mature modding community made Skyrim their own.

Is that supposed to be a double entendre?

 

[GMBigKev]

The best thing that Morrowind left behind was the obtuse directions to try to find quests. "Go past Mchgragan and take the fourth left beyond the shores of Lake Achfnree. There you'll find the caves of Ghjigki but travel past the mouth of the caves to arrive at the Ruins of Joeiesm."

 

[Deleted member 14629]

I guess Arena and Daggerfall aren't worthy of consideration because they were just plain trash?

I know that I started Arena, got lost in a procedural dungeon, and never bothered to play again. Not sure if it actually had a "win" condition? I know Daggerfall had a main quest, but I don't think I ever found the start of it, or maybe its old enough that the only available quest tracker was pencil and paper?

Arena and Daggerfall from my perspective are an entirely previous generation of games. It's really hard to compare, whereas Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim are all nominally on the same engine with the same broad generation of games.

I suspect the new Elder Scrolls is going to be hard to compare to the previous generation as well, since it will be an all new engine, with a whole new generation of expectations about games.

 

[krimhorn]

I suspect the new Elder Scrolls is going to be hard to compare to the previous generation as well, since it will be an all new engine, with a whole new generation of expectations about games.

I wouldn't get my expectations up nearly that much. Starfield was an opportunity for Todd Howard to reinvent himself and he decidedly made a Todd Howard Bethesda Game Studios Game (not that I'm complaining).

 

[Locke]

Bethesda's sure interested in announcing a remaster project after just announcing they were focusing on ES6 five years after announcing the thing. I find it difficult to believe Microsoft tolerates this kind of gap between major titles from anything not its OS team.

Bethesda hasn't kept up with the growth in staff the other AAA studios have.

The headcount for Starfield was reportedly round 500 people.

God War was somewhere around 1000 or 1500. RDR2 was around 1500 as well. 3,000 people work on Assassin's creed. The Call of Duty franchise has somewhere between 3,000 and 5,000 depending on which leaks and which head count totals you believe.


AAA game studios have gotten stupidly huge in just the last 5-10 years.

 

[CPX]

AHHHH, I'VE BEEN YANKED INTO A NEW THREAD!!!

Bethesda hasn't kept up with the growth in staff the other AAA studios have.

The headcount for Starfield was reportedly round 500 people.

God War was somewhere around 1000 or 1500. RDR2 was around 1500 as well. 3,000 people work on Assassin's creed. The Call of Duty franchise has somewhere between 3,000 and 5,000 depending on which leaks and which head count totals you believe.


AAA game studios have gotten stupidly huge in just the last 5-10 years.

I'm not sure I would accuse Bethesda of having a studio size problem, though. AC and CoD are clockwork franchises, with CoD having a significant multiplayer piece. Hell, Rockstar has ongoing multiplayer with GTAV and RDR2. But Rockstar has a raft of other problems, too.

I would personally consider FO76 one of Bethesda's biggest boat anchors. They've never been about the multiplayer experience. Focus on the core competencies, namely single-player action adventure.

 

[Mister E. Meat]

My take on the three:

1. Morrowind: Monumentally abusable with how skills and abilities grew. Decent modding community made game better to look at. Guild stories fun and different. Beeeg.
2. Oblivion: Visibly much better looking game, story not as fun as Morrowind. Modding community really came into their own. Skills still abusable, but not Morrowind levels of hilarity. Ultimately, the "middle sibling" of the three, where it's kinda in the middle of jank versus good.
3. Skyrim: Beautiful. The scenery, not the people. They were still "Bethesda Ugly". Made even more amazing by modders. So much organic storytelling and side stories. Not as funny as Morrowind, but arguably a lot more mature. Skills much harder to hilariously abuse. Fully mature modding community made Skyrim their own.

Morrowind is kinda peak "jank as fun" gameplay, and Skyrim is the current pinnacle of maturing that world and gameplay. Oblivion has lots of good stories in it, but just doesn't stand out enough between its siblings. It's not bad, but I would be surprised if a large chunk of people ranked it top of those three.

I'd add Daggerfall is the jank but not as fun Elder Scrolls game. There's a lot there to like but even when it came out it was horribly jank. I remember constantly floating / flying outside the dungeon geometry to avoid things I didn't want to fight and things like that.

 

[Ulf]

To be blunt, no. Not unless they fix the underlying systems, especially Oblivion. Fallout 3 would be slightly more functional, but it's missing things like iron sights. Also, they would have a new engine, rendering every mod using script extenders incompatible by default.

 

[Locke]

AHHHH, I'VE BEEN YANKED INTO A NEW THREAD!!!



I'm not sure I would accuse Bethesda of having a studio size problem, though. AC and CoD are clockwork franchises, with CoD having a significant multiplayer piece. Hell, Rockstar has ongoing multiplayer with GTAV and RDR2. But Rockstar has a raft of other problems, too.

I would personally consider FO76 one of Bethesda's biggest boat anchors. They've never been about the multiplayer experience. Focus on the core competencies, namely single-player action adventure.

RDR2's online is largely abandonware at this point. Most big AAA single player games are pushing 1,000 people headcount at this point.


This is where the Bethesda calling everything Bethesda gets confusing.

There is Bethesda Softworks (Publisher) who runs Bethesda Game Studios. Bethesda Game Studios has two offices. Bethesda in Austin Texas that runs FO76 and Bethesda in Bethesda Maryland that does the main line games.



Outside of the FO76 train wreck and ESO they've got 500 people on 2.5 huge franchises. The obvious answer is to have Obsidian make another West Coast Fallout after they're down with Avowed and keep growing the studio. They've already grown quite a bit, but not nearly as much as their peers.

 

[CPX]

RDR2's online is largely abandonware at this point. Most big AAA single player games are pushing 1,000 people headcount at this point.


This is where the Bethesda calling everything Bethesda gets confusing.

There is Bethesda Softworks (Publisher) who runs Bethesda Game Studios. Bethesda Game Studios has two offices. Bethesda in Austin Texas that runs FO76 and Bethesda in Bethesda Maryland that does the main line games.

Eh, they're both owned by Microsoft now so really anything here is BGS.

Outside of the FO76 train wreck and ESO they've got 500 people on 2.5 huge franchises. The obvious answer is to have Obsidian make another West Coast Fallout after they're down with Avowed and keep growing the studio. They've already grown quite a bit, but not nearly as much as their peers.

Obsidian Fallout of the chef's kiss New Vegas variety would need more than Josh Sawyer, though. Chris Avellone left awhile ago and just got past his misconduct allegations but already looks to have projects lined up.

 

[GirgleMirt]

The issue with those old games (ex; Morrowind), is that they're just a tad bit too clunky when compared to say Skyrim...


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POBwlYxOstg


I mean, you can try to stick updated textures and models, but by today's standards... You would effectively need to remake the games in a newer engine... Even Oblivion would be barely passable.. Not to mention the fact that mods really made those games.

It's a bit weird how those games have progressed. Not sure if I'm the only one, but I loved Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, Fallout 3 & 4, but since then, I've basically skipped everything given they went MMO. But quite strange that they didn't even release sequels, even using the same engines... I'm sure Skyrim 2 would have sold, probably also would have been much less dev time and all. I guess MMOs were just that much more profitable...

 

[cogwheel]

It feels weird to remaster Oblivion before Morrowind. Oblivion was the forgettable middle entry.

DeathLoop was decent enough

I didn't get super far into it (3 or 4 zones), but DeathLoop struck me as a misguided attempt at fusing together two genres, immersive sims and roguelikes. The immersive sim side has the big, sprawling, detailed maps and side content that make you want to explore, but the roguelike side made you want to ignore all that and rush through since you're going to die anyway and have to repeat it again and again. The end result is a roguelike that has runs far longer than a roguelike should have even when you ignore 90% of the game's content.

 

[jamoau]

New Vegas or bust.

 

[malor]

It feels weird to remaster Oblivion before Morrowind. Oblivion was the forgettable middle entry.


I didn't get super far into it (3 or 4 zones), but DeathLoop struck me as a misguided attempt at fusing together two genres, immersive sims and roguelikes. The immersive sim side has the big, sprawling, detailed maps and side content that make you want to explore, but the roguelike side made you want to ignore all that and rush through since you're going to die anyway and have to repeat it again and again. The end result is a roguelike that has runs far longer than a roguelike should have even when you ignore 90% of the game's content.

I knew I didn't like time loop games, but I really like Arkane, so I split the difference and bought Deathloop after it went on sale.

I still don't like time loop games. Restarting over and over from scratch in the same world sucks. It's an awful mechanic, and should have been left behind after Nintendo did it, all those years ago. You can't ever fix or improve anything, everyone is always stuck with the same issues. Deathloop's graphics and play mechanics were great, but the underlying idea bites.

Roguelikes work because they're autogenerated and don't have static worlds or stories. Because of that, the Mooncrash DLC for Prey was pretty good, where I think Deathloop doesn't work well, despite the skill and care that went into it.

 

[CPX]

New Vegas or bust.

Not a Bethesda problem, as much as I wish for NV2.

Though I will say a West Coast-centric Fallout sequel will have a big problem (very similar to the one Ace Combat will face when they catch up to AC3): anything that remotely contacts the New California Republic, Caesar's Legion, or the Mojave will have to address a canon ending of FONV. IMHO, most likely path is an "ending mostly doesn't matter": the Legion died out because Caesar died (true in most endings, even pro-Legion), House was unable to convert New Vegas into Rapture, and the NCR's annexation of the Mojave fell apart. The NCR went back home, Colorado and Arizona carry the scars of the Legion without its force, and New Vegas decayed down to minor relevance. Obsidian could probably come up with better, but that's the only way all major factions can converge to allow a coherent sequel continuity, IMHO.

I really doubt Bethesda will ever touch the American Southwest given the "mile-wide/inch-deep" world building skill they show.

 

[infernal666]

Oblivions main story was very forgettable,I was 60 hours in before I remembered there was a story,I spent most of that time just fucking around and exploring.

 

[cogwheel]

Roguelikes work because they're autogenerated and don't have static worlds or stories.

True. One thought that was rolling around in my head as I wrote my prior post is that roguelikes' autogenerated worlds without a lot of detail and story force the focus of playing the game into learning its mechanics and ignoring the framing details. Hades, despite having quite a bit of detail and backstory, is still a good example because the story stuff almost entirely happens during the times between runs, and the runs are nearly pure gameplay plus pretty graphics.

Oblivions main story was very forgettable,I was 60 hours in before I remembered there was a story,I spent most of that time just fucking around and exploring.

For me, Oblivion's setting just felt bland in a way that neither Morrowind's nor Skyrim's did, so I never got into the story-less exploration in Oblivion either.

 

[Thorvard]

By the time they come out with the remaster of FO3 and Oblivion, it will be 15-20 years since I played them. More than enough time to justify a replay, and on a newer version of the engine, with all the DLC added as part of the package? Count me in.

That's how I feel, except I've played FO3, Morrowind and Oblivion in the past few years. I'll still buy all of them, especially if they are Steam Deck compatible.

 

[Nekojin]

I dunno.. Part of me just feels "Eh" about those titles. I mean, I liked Oblivion, but it wasn't Morrowind (and the main story's gameplay was pretty meh). FO3 was good, but.. Does it really need a remaster?

Hear, hear. I'd love to have a Morrowind remaster, but they're not interested in that, because that's old enough that remastering it is going to be a LOT more work.

 

[Ed209]

Huh. I didn't even know there was a Dishonored 2, much less a 3... I did like what I guess was Dishonored 1, though.

 

[CPX]

OTOH, a remastered FO3 is super easy to mod into FONV...

 

[Diabolical]

Huh. I didn't even know there was a Dishonored 2, much less a 3... I did like what I guess was Dishonored 1, though.

No one knew there was a Dishonored 3 until this leak.
But Dishonored 2 and it's expansion thing are truly excellent games, and a good followup to Dishonored.

 

[Mister E. Meat]

OTOH, a remastered FO3 is super easy to mod into FONV...

Tale of Two Wastelands for those not in the know.

 

[maverick]

While it's not exactly a full remaster, OpenMW is a modern re-implementation of the Morrowind engine that lets you play it on modern hardware. It's got a bunch of improvements built-in, and can be modded further.

From the FAQ:

How is OpenMW/OpenMW-CS different from the original Morrowind engine?​

• Native support for macOS, Linux, and Windows
• Improved physics and AI
• Distant terrain
• Save/Load dialogs organized by character
• Quality of life UI improvements, such as being able to search for spells
• Multiple quicksaves
• World map adjusts automatically to fit new landmass from mods such as Tamriel Rebuilt
• Support for up to 2147483646 loaded mods (up from 255 in the original Morrowind engine)
• Since it was made from scratch, virtually no engine bugs from the original Morrowind
• And much more

Additionally, OpenMW can be used for running entirely new games created with OpenMW-CS.

 

[Tom Foolery]

That's how I feel, except I've played FO3, Morrowind and Oblivion in the past few years. I'll still buy all of them, especially if they are Steam Deck compatible.

Don't understand the love for the Steam Deck, although I am sure road warrior Tom Foolery (aka ElitistPig) would have considered it a necessity. But it has been nearly 20 year since I was a road warrior, and nearly 5 since the last time I actually traveled for any company. The Kid has been pushing for one, pretty hard, but I can't justify it because a) that's a super expensive gift in my world, and b) The Kid is insanely hard on things, and has destroyed a couple of tablets as well as a gaming laptop we bought him. His current portable is an old refurbished Surface 2 we picked up for a song a few years back, when he and Squeaky needed something for school.

We recently purchased Oblivion for The Kid, because he heard good things about it (even some from me) and I did not have it in my Steam library because I received it as a gift from my wife, and she purchased from Best Buy likely, back before I allowed Steam on my system. Him talking about it has aroused my interest in it, no doubt heavily colored by nostalgia.

 

[Deleted member 14629]

I love my Steam Deck, but under no circumstances give one to someone hard on electronics. It's super wide in a way that's just begging to be snapped in half if you're not careful.

 

[Tom Foolery]

I love my Steam Deck, but under no circumstances give one to someone hard on electronics. It's super wide in a way that's just begging to be snapped in half if you're not careful.

Thank you for your advice. The Kid really nerds out on things, but is absent-minded and super clumsy, and grew super fast so his proprioception has not caught up with his size. A lot like I was, at 17. So a lot of things break in this household, from the expensive laptops, tablets, and phones to the cheaper water glasses and dishes. Not much can be done about it, save damage control. Which definitely means that The Kid gets hand-me-down laptops, phones, and no tablets. And certainly not a Steam Deck.