A new book asks hard questions about whether we've thought through life in space.
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Are we ethically ready to set up shop in space?
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I truly wish I had enough faith in humanity to become more altruistic in off-world ventures.
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I figured things would start off like The Expanse with Belters being a lower class of people and then later, assuming no aliens or alien goo encounters, humanity would then transition into the Gundam period of fancy colony space stations and mechanized warfare.
Being serious though, I think I’ll actually get this book. It sounds very interesting.
Being serious though, I think I’ll actually get this book. It sounds very interesting.
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I would love to visit space, but who wants to LIVE in a place that has no wildlife, plants, etc.?
It is unimaginable to me that anybody would want to live in the conditions that are required to be in space, the moon, mars…
I guess there are people that live in such desperate, grinding poverty that being locked in a cage is preferable, but otherwise I’m drawing a blank.
It is unimaginable to me that anybody would want to live in the conditions that are required to be in space, the moon, mars…
I guess there are people that live in such desperate, grinding poverty that being locked in a cage is preferable, but otherwise I’m drawing a blank.
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Considering how we behave at remote locations on our own planet, the answer seems like an easy no.
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Well the biggest difference in using European settling of the new world as a historical example is there were already civilizations living in the new world who got destroyed in the process. So “exploring” was really conquering. And at least so far as we know there aren’t any beings on any body we are likely to settle in our Solar system, so we are only our own worst enemy. And it is hubris to think if we do encounter intelligent life on a planet we’d like to settle they won’t be vastly technically advanced over us (wouldn’t the European settlers been surprised when the native Americans called in close air support! the ‘trail of tears” would have become the trail of BRRRRRTs!)
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I kind of agree, though I would say a bigger difference than THAT is that the environment we were settling was full of—and could easily sustain—life, while space is… not.
Humans have killed other humans since the beginning. It might be horrible, but psychologically, we are able to do it. Being locked in a box without life and freedom is literally how we punish murderers. It is sort of incredible we think anyone but lunatics and the desperately poor would volunteer for this.
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The past 3 years of Covid alone have many lessons of humanity.
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She notes that if we don’t want to bring war, inequality, exploitation, resource depletion, and injustice with us when we eventually settle in space, all we have to do is eliminate those things on Earth first. And we must do it now, not once all the technical challenges have been solved and we’re ready to leave the planet. If we want a civilization worth exporting ito space, we must create it here.
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That's not how progress happens. Settlers fled oppression and famine in the old world to try their luck in the colonies. A select few humans will do the same in the coming decades. It took Europeans around 400 years to fully colonize the Americas. They had ships and the most simplistic weapons and tools. We have an endless array of technologies which would be considered magic even a few decades ago (3d printing, genetic engineering, drones/robotics, AI....). We will go to space - some will be government funded, private ventures, a combination of the two....but we're going.
Runaway climate change, species and biome collapse, inequality, threats of war and conflict, authoritarianism.... none of this will be solved by delaying venturing into the final frontier.
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That's not how progress happens. Settlers fled oppression and famine in the old world to try their luck in the colonies. A select few humans will do the same in the coming decades. It took Europeans around 400 years to fully colonize the Americas. They had ships and the most simplistic weapons and tools. We have an endless array of technologies which would be considered magic even a few decades ago (3d printing, genetic engineering, drones/robotics, AI....). We will go to space - some will be government funded, private ventures, a combination of the two....but we're going.
Runaway climate change, species and biome collapse, inequality, threats of war and conflict, authoritarianism.... none of this will be solved by delaying venturing into the final frontier.
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"building a just, equitable, sustainable, and lasting human society in space"
i think it's a mistake to think that "just" and "equitable" are in alignment with each other. we may be equal under the law, but we are not clones - we bring different skills, different pros and cons to every situation. and in space - different people will most certainly be chosen for their skills. things cannot be equitable if they are just. and in a just system, not everything is equitable.
i think it's a mistake to think that "just" and "equitable" are in alignment with each other. we may be equal under the law, but we are not clones - we bring different skills, different pros and cons to every situation. and in space - different people will most certainly be chosen for their skills. things cannot be equitable if they are just. and in a just system, not everything is equitable.
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Captain Trips
Smack-Fu Master, in training
Elon Musk on Mars: "For all of you who are not hardcore enough, your servitude will end tomorrow along with access to food, water and oxygen."
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The european settlers of the Americas also had all the air and water they needed to survive, and could forage for food, plant crops, and pasture animals.
And survive outdoors.
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Confidence is high that humans will behave like humans in space or anywhere else.
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I always wondered what The Elon’s plan was for running things, once installed in Mars. I remember being apprehensive even before he became what he is now.
Looking at the now, it’s entirely possible that for him it’s all Raptors, and the governance part, he’s planning on figuring out on the go.
Looking at the now, it’s entirely possible that for him it’s all Raptors, and the governance part, he’s planning on figuring out on the go.
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I really hope we don't get a sub-race of spacers who can't go down the gravity well because it would kill them. Other than The Expanse, KSR's Mars books explores this but his future tech is advanced enough to act as a secondary life support system for Martians visiting Earth.
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Your analogy is more suited to colonizing an earth-like planet not space. Settlers in space are completely dependent on a support infrastructure - as noted by others. Unlike the 'New World' of N. America, you can't go hunt and fish or forage for sustenance.
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Before 2022, I kind of assumed that Musk was too absorbed in the technical aspects of making a Mars colony practicable to be interested in being personally involved in its political governance. I also doubted he would want to go there himself until things had been running smoothly for at least a decade or so. These days, I try not to make any assumptions about his plans or values.
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The problem is that as usual the technology and power dynamics will lead to situations where we could do it ethically, or do it profitably, and profit will always win.
A great reset would be needed to realize a fundamentally just society, but it is prevented by the system we’re all toiling within, including the author, in which good people doing good work drives the success of bad people who exploit the masses.
I don’t think we’re doomed or anything, but I would bet that whatever society is created up there will mirror many of the most aspiring qualities of life on earth, but also amplify many of our worst tendencies.
Version 1.0 will give us some data on where we land on that spectrum, but as much as I love the idea of exploring I won’t be looking to join the great space dice roll.
A great reset would be needed to realize a fundamentally just society, but it is prevented by the system we’re all toiling within, including the author, in which good people doing good work drives the success of bad people who exploit the masses.
I don’t think we’re doomed or anything, but I would bet that whatever society is created up there will mirror many of the most aspiring qualities of life on earth, but also amplify many of our worst tendencies.
Version 1.0 will give us some data on where we land on that spectrum, but as much as I love the idea of exploring I won’t be looking to join the great space dice roll.
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Lessons? I see nothing new there. David Byrne said it best: "Same as it ever was . . ."
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We can't even agree on how science works or the shape of the earth. You think we're going to successfully live in a place where the village idiot who disagrees that vacuums exist and decides to pop an airlock to show the turtles going all the way down?
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We can't build a just and equitable society on earth, how are we going to do so in space?
Some places are obviously better than others in terms of localised fairness - Scandinavia comes to mind - but then the third-world would like a word.
Some places are obviously better than others in terms of localised fairness - Scandinavia comes to mind - but then the third-world would like a word.
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No. As a world society, we are not ethically ready to live on earth, yet here we are.
We are never going to agree, as a whole, on what is "Just" or "Ethical". At least sustainable is a measurable goal.
Are you sure? The context supports the definition of
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Your ethics will closely follow your economic system. Export a capitalistic system of scarcity and you will duplicate what we see on Earth. Capitalism is even impossible for the very first settlers; everyone has a job to do and is essential for that job. Keep that system going.
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Yeah, somebody's going (eventually).
None of those problems you name will be solved by people going to space, nor do they have much chance of solving them for themselves if they haven't already solved them here.
Run away from climate change on Earth to a place where there's no climate that can support human life.
Run away from species and biome collapse to a place where the only species are those we think to take and biome that can exist is one that humans must learn to create and maintain themselves.
Run away from authoritarianism and inequality to a place where everything is controlled by the government or rich individuals.
Run away from threats of war and conflict to a place where people are packed into tiny boxes and must solve resource contention problems they never learned to solve in a humane way on Earth.
And worse: the sorts of people that thrived by exploiting people on Earth are going to lead the way.
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Oh is that all?
Its a nice goal, and once we do all that maybe we wont need to go to Mars!
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Removing even the most minimal incentive they have to leave a single square-meter of the earth unexploited.
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As cynical as I am (and it's never enough), I still read these now and again and think, yes, that's how it should be, and I hope will be.
— Star Trek, 'The City on the Edge of Forever' (Edith Keeler's speech), 1967.
— John F Kennedy, speech at Rice University, 12 September 1962.
— Star Trek, 'The City on the Edge of Forever' (Edith Keeler's speech), 1967.
— John F Kennedy, speech at Rice University, 12 September 1962.
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We live on a planet with abundant resources for our survival in which we have not yet been able ensure that all humans have the basics to survive. Anyone who thinks we as a species are capable of building anything resembling a just and fair society in space is fooling themselves. That project has about as much chance for success as someone who has juggled three beanbags for at most 10 seconds has to juggle 3 running chainsaws. In both cases catastrophic failure is almost certainly guaranteed.
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Yeah, good luck with that.
Fact is, we are a shitty, destructive lifeform.
Look at what we have done to the planet, we can't even solve the middle east crap and get over our petty differences here leave alone trying to build a kind of utupia one in space.
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We sure as hell won’t be applying any enlightened Federation principles to fix all of those problems first.
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