Apple Pencils can’t draw straight on third-party replacement iPad screens

It's similar to the Face ID failures of the iPhone 13's screen, later fixed.

See full article...

 

[ex2bot]

That suspiciously sounds like Republicans have real world data that suggests that the Biden Crime Family is guilty accepting millions of dollars of bribes.

Are you serious or just trolling? You haven’t read about The NSO Group, various governments around the world trying to force back doors (incl. the FBI) or otherwise defeat encryption, as well as legions of malicious hackers working on exploits? All platforms are under threat from increasingly sophisticated attacks. The NSO Group, notably, has run roughshod on mobile platform security for several years ffs.

Ex.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/israel...ial freefall,human rights and stifle dissent.
https://techcrunch.com/2023/06/27/an-encryption-exodus-looms-over-uks-online-safety-bill/amp/

 

[ginger_swag]

A similar mentality was common for PowerBook/MacBook batteries back when those were easily replaceable. People would look at the price of an OEM battery, balk at it, go buy a $25 bargain bin special battery off of Amazon or eBay, and then act surprised when their laptop started acting wonky or in a few cases got fried.

Yes there's some margin on official parts, but a lot of the extra cost goes toward quality control. They're more expensive because defective or otherwise subpar units are rejected. Cheap parts are cheap because everything that rolls off the assembly line is sold, or in some cases because they're the units that were rejected by the OEM and have problems.

This isn't exclusive to Apple, either, which can be frustrating. For older gadgets sometimes the only thing you can get are junky third party replacement parts, especially when it comes to batteries and devices that didn't sell in vast quantities.

But that's literally unrelated to what is shown in the video. It's a great story, with true points about how consumers will sometimes behave, and has zero actual relevancy to the discussion.

 

[barich]

That's what you get when you rent the device from your overlord.

You don't own it, it's not your device.

Lol at the down votes.

You dorks bought apple and supported this. It's like people who voted for Trump. I'm done feeling sorry for people who continue to go out of their way to support the people and behavior that screw them over.

I don't even like Apple and I downvoted you because of the ridiculous hyperbole.

 

[BlameOmar]

The math doesn’t check out on this. Every iPad screen has to include this “useless” chip, but only some of them are used with an Apple pencil, only some of those eventually have to be replaced, and only some of those would be taken to someone other than Apple for replacement (it may be more expensive, but it is the first thing most people think of). It seems unlikely that the small number of diverted third party repairs would offset the aggregate cost of an otherwise unnecessary chip.

It’s more likely that the chip performs useful work to make the lines straight, but refuses to do so if it can’t validate that it’s in the device it’s supposed to be in. People used to get mugged in public over their Apple products so much it made national news, and this in addition to bricking stolen devices destroyed the incentive to do that.

 

[ginger_swag]

It’s more likely that the chip performs useful work to make the lines straight, but refuses to do so if it can’t validate that it’s in the device it’s supposed to be in.

Very likely, and it's dumb

 

[RiptideLA]

This: '"They have a memory chip that sits on the screen that's programmed to only allow the Pencil functionality to work if the screen is connected to the original logic board," Panesar told Forbes.'

...makes no sense. It seems far more likely that it's a matter of the Pencil and digitizer not being calibrated exactly correctly to each other. I could see having a per-screen calibration that goes with each Apple part - in fact, since their screens are factory-calibrated for color - I expect it, but a chip that's specifically programmed to sabotage third-party parts? I don't buy it.

100%

Why would Apple go to the considerable expense of putting an actual extra custom chip into these iPads for the purpose of thwarting the 0.01% of people who want to do a repair outside of Apple or Apple authorized repair shops?

 

[vought1221]

Use expensive shit, genuine apple parts without apple's magic blessing, get shit performance.

Or, perhaps this is simply how apple guarantees performance and parity with the existing hardware’s calibration.

I used to work for a manufacturer of smart ovens. Each oven’s heating elements relative to the cooking cavity was individually calibrated at the factory, because “close enough” wasn’t good enough. The calibration results were stored on the MLB, meaning that replacing a logic board meant either moving the calibration data over to the new MLB or recalibrating the oven cavity.

That’s part of what’s at work here; in all likelihood serialization is part of the checksum or validation that allows calibration to work properly. Without prior knowledge of the engineering decisions behind this behavior, it’s easier to say Apple is just being greedy, but there are often good reasons for this kind of behavior, especially when it comes to HCI.

 

[Inaksa]

Can't or won't? I'm surprised that Apple management still hasn't figured out which way the wind is blowing on the topic of repairability. How much money can they possibly be making on repairs? Is it really worth these shenanigans?

I don't know, it must not be a neglectable amount (proportionally to Apple's total worth) mainly because if your selling point is "we make durable phones" (let's take their word for this argument) repairs should represent a very residual / not important sum, because given the devices are durable and good, not many people will need to service them.

Now assume the same point is false, repairs should not be a rarity, but almost a constant.

And finally lets contemplate the fact that phones drop, get wet, whatever due to people just being people, accidents happen. If that was the case you should not count on that income because, even when people will drop their phones or get them wet, there is no guarantee that is going to happen.

 

[cbreak]

The reality of our world is that Apple has real world data that suggests that bad actors would love to bypass their security (may it be governments wanting to pry into journalist's devices, or just thieves wanting to wipe a stolen device <- the far bigger threat). Quoting a rep for a repair service as if they were stating facts and handwaving at Apple's stance is not doing any favors to the narrative of "it's complicated and many of us would like to repair our devices but many of us equally like the security that comes with the current setup"

Saying "it would be easy for Apple to build security and repairability" is
a) the exact same argument used by the various lobbyist (FBI, UK Government, etc) that want back doors to E2E encryption.
b) dismissing that those are not the only two design parameters that Apple has to consider (e.g. waterproofing)

There's no security to be gained by making lines jaggy.

 

[ginger_swag]

Or, perhaps this is simply how apple guarantees performance and parity with the existing hardware’s calibration.

I used to work for a manufacturer of smart ovens. Each oven’s heating elements relative to the cooking cavity was individually calibrated at the factory, because “close enough” wasn’t good enough. The calibration results were stored on the MLB, meaning that replacing a logic board meant either moving the calibration data over to the new MLB or recalibrating the oven cavity.

That’s part of what’s at work here; in all likelihood serialization is part of the checksum or validation that allows calibration to work properly. Without prior knowledge of the engineering decisions behind this behavior, it’s easier to say Apple is just being greedy, but there are often good reasons for this kind of behavior, especially when it comes to HCI.

Then you would calibrate the screen to the chip, not the chip to the device. New screen + old chip should not have fixed the issue because the screen to chip calibration should have been off.

In your example, the equivalent would be replacing the heating element AND the MLB. Copying the calibration data wouldn't be accurate for the new heating element

 

[RiptideLA]

Assuming Apple is doing something to effectively require official Apple parts or service technicians to repair a device, I would not be in favor of giving Apple a pass for such behavior. The underlying principles of capitalism require that there be an open and competitive market place to serve as a check and balance on the system. You know, the principles that are espoused but don't happen in reality due to monopolies or near monopolies, i.e. mature markets.

Speaking as a capitalist, and as a person who has built and run midsize companies, I can tell you that the goal of every CEO is to try to figure out ways to develop a monopoly in a legal way.

Keep in mind the word capitalism was invented by Marx and Engles, as they needed something to push against to argue for communism. And unlike communism, capitalism is not some clearly defined set of ethics, beliefs, and mores. It’s just a word they made up to describe the free markets that developed over thousands of years of human existence.

Of course, every country with relatively free markets has developed a set of rules to try to rein in the downsides of Keynes’ “animal spirits”, which is what you’re describing. But don’t paint it as some kind of “underlying principle(s)” of capitalism because it’s not. The underlying principle of capitalism, if there was one, is beat your competition by any means necessary, and if you have to follow the law, then well, OK.

The id of capitalism looks something like the mafia.

E: spelling

 

[ttyRazor]

Did you watch the linked video?

Broken screen + chip = straight
New screen + new chip = jagged
New screen + old chip = straight


If this were just digitizer calibration, the lines would be offset, not jagged and new screen + old chip shouldn't have fixed it

ETA: I'm not saying it's a purposeful design to hamper 3rd party devices; it could be but without more info I couldn't say.

My WAG is that if the chip detects a serialized pair, it may run some algorithm to straighten lines based on additional data it knows it can gather from an authorized pen. If the pen isn't authorized, it may assume it cannot gather that data and therefore doesn't run the straightening algorithm.
I'm not sure the pen is actually part of the serialization process, so I'm retracting my WAG.

These are all genuine Apple Parts, just not serialized/authorized to work together. Just because it may not be malicious intent, doesn't mean it isn't stupid and anti-consumer.

There may be an angular component to the calibration, which would explain why it’s not just offset.

Edit: what’s likely the more likely approach?

• Precisely line up the digitizer layer both offset and rotationally when laminating it, and throw out any displays that fail testing after they’re permenantly fused together.
• Do only a rough alignment and correct for it with calibration data that gets stored where they already have storage on the SoC or wherever device specific data like serial numbers live. Give your repair staff the tools to recalibrate when they need to replace a display.

One of these is much more expensive to do than the other.

 

[Alexstarfire]

To add a cost to every unit sale in order to protect the margins on repair parts for a fraction of total unit sales doesn’t make a lot of financial sense.

I think you're overestimating the cost of the chip.

But I also think people overestimate how often things happen for a single reason. There are likely several reasons for this setup. Whether this issue is intentional or not is irrelevant IMO. If it's not intentional it's a very happy side effect for them as it'll force more people to go to them for repair.

 

[t122648]

Apple screwing/overcharging their customers? Must be a day ending in the letter Y.

 

[ttyRazor]

100%

Why would Apple go to the considerable expense of putting an actual extra custom chip into these iPads for the purpose of thwarting the 0.01% of people who want to do a repair outside of Apple or Apple authorized repair shops?

We’ve already seen what it looks like for components where Apple does do this for like batteries. I’d expect to see popups warning about nongenuine parts, not subtle misalignments.

 

[Xenocrates]

Itink you're overestimating the cost of the chip.

But I also think people overestimate how often things happen for a single reason. There are likely several reasons for this setup. Whether this issue is intentional or not is irrelevant IMO. If it's not intentional it's a very happy side effect for them as it'll force more people to go to them for repair.

It may be the chip holds calibration data for the screen, but is encrypted such that an unpaired chip can't be accessed, since that would be a low marginal cost add in as it's pretty much just software, and the manufacturing tolerances are tight enough that the data is almost interchangeable so only fairly demanding users would notice the difference, such as variations in the pressure sensitivity

 

[MagMan1979]

The video in the article used a genuine apple screen and it didn't work. Then they replaced a single little chip in the new screen with the chip from the old, broken screen, and everything worked again.

Use expensive shit, genuine apple parts without apple's magic blessing, get shit performance.

Yeah, so that people get actual GENUINE parts that are properly tied to the device they are replacing with original security, not to use "expensive shit" SMH

 

[ginger_swag]

It may be the chip holds calibration data for the screen, but is encrypted such that an unpaired chip can't be accessed, since that would be a low marginal cost add in as it's pretty much just software, and the manufacturing tolerances are tight enough that the data is almost interchangeable so only fairly demanding users would notice the difference, such as variations in the pressure sensitivity

That's fairly plausible, and in the abstract of "we just did it this way and didn't plan for this other case", it seems even probable.

In my admittedly limited experience with apple, since they have full control over their stacks, they tend to build things to work on the happy path. If you're not on the happy path, you'll get weird behavior.

My problem comes in because apple's definition of happy path includes "used magic Apple stuff to pair two things that have little reason to be paired". Whether that's due to malicious intent or just oversight because "why wouldn't they be paired" matters little to me. The end result is a reduction in performance because you didn't do it the apple way.

It's certainly not for security, because the old chip works with a new screen. If you have access to the old screen you also have access to the old chip.

Whether actively or passively, it's still a reduction in repairability, which is bad IMO.

 

[ginger_swag]

Yeah, so that people get actual GENUINE parts that are properly tied to the device they are replacing with original security, not to use "expensive shit" SMH

What is not genuine about an apple screen taken from an apple ipad bought from apple?

I'm not sure I'm understanding your post

 

[LabRatBob]

What surprises me as a former Apple Pencil user is that this is the only problem. I'm a former user because the pencil itself was (is) well, crap. Fragile as an egg and unreliable, mine lasted less than a month. I prefer the Logitech crayon, as it is reliable and robust.
ETA: yes I understand it is the interface between IPad and Pencil in discussion here. Just expressing an unsolicited opinion that you are free to ignore, and I'm sure many will.

 

[Digital_Dreamer]

Anyone know where this chip is located?

 

[graylshaped]

These stories are always conflicting to me. On the one hand, counterfeit parts can range the gamut from harmless to harmful, both in a security/privacy sense and a physical one. On the other hand, swapping one genuine Apple part for another should be doable and retain all the features.

Other touchscreens I've replaced have had the calibration built-in to the device. iOS has never had that consumer-capability. (Then again, even the oldest iOS touchscreens have never drifted.) With all the negative press this continues to generate, Apple should consider allowing people— maybe even through their parts replacement program— to access calibration software. Doing it in a way that keeps the security of iOS devices intact is probably a challenge, but it's not impossible.

I'm driving a 2014 model car with low mileage. The battery pooped out last year, and I took one look at it in the trunk and said "hell no." My (third party) service provider, when I called to set up an appointment, told me "Yeah, your car wants the battery to talk with the computer in the car. I have the software to do that. This isn't something you want to do on your own."

 

[RTFMUsuallyHelps]

What surprises me as a former Apple Pencil user is that this is the only problem. I'm a former user because the pencil itself was (is) well, crap. Fragile as an egg and unreliable, mine lasted less than a month. I prefer the Logitech crayon, as it is reliable and robust.

My Apple Pencil 2nd gen has been going strong for over 3 years now without a single issue.

 

[RTFMUsuallyHelps]

I'm driving a 2014 model car with low mileage. The battery pooped out last year, and I took one look at it in the trunk and said "hell no." My (third party) service provider, when I called to set up an appointment, told me "Yeah, your car wants the battery to talk with the computer in the car. I have the software to do that. This isn't something you want to do on your own."

My car is the same. When I replaced the battery, I had to "sync" it with the onboard ECU. When my 3rd party mechanic said he couldn't do it, I ended up having to take it to the dealership to get done.

 

[_GntlStone_]

My car is the same. When I replaced the battery, I had to "sync" it with the onboard ECU. When my 3rd party mechanic said he couldn't do it, I ended up having to take it to the dealership to get done.

Ditto for my VW Jetta. Freaking $300 lead acid starter battery

 

[sandifop]

Assuming Apple is doing something to effectively require official Apple parts or service technicians to repair a device, I would not be in favor of giving Apple a pass for such behavior. The underlying principles of capitalism require that there be an open and competitive market place to serve as a check and balance on the system. You know, the principles that are espoused but don't happen in reality due to monopolies or near monopolies, i.e. mature markets.

It all starts going downhill at "Assuming..."

 

[LosAngelesPandas]

Can't or won't? I'm surprised that Apple management still hasn't figured out which way the wind is blowing on the topic of repairability. How much money can they possibly be making on repairs? Is it really worth these shenanigans?

Just like Mickey Mouse, Tim Apple does not miss out on a dollar. So it clearly must be worth it.

 

[juancn]

The evidence points to calibration data being off for the new screen, not a nefarious scheme to make it draw wrong. It's a much simpler explanation.

 

[LosAngelesPandas]

Maybe they're holding it (the pencil or the pad) wrong.

That joke was not funny 12 years ago, just had to break it out now, huh?

 

[sandifop]

The video does not show a third party screen. It shows an Apple iPad screen pulled from a different Apple iPad.

I'll preface the following with "I know I know nothing." It is only my point of view; however, a possible explanation is Apple has more than one vendor for screens and the display inverter (presumption) chips work with specific screens. While ginger_swag is correct with his point, is it Apple's responsibility what the customer side of this equation can try to do outside of their control?

Any number of other explanations that do not include nefarious motivations other than - they cannot be bother to factor for all of the possible ways a third party could screw-up a highly engineered bit of tech. If I were to run a company, I'd want to be able to design a consumer device as precisely as possible to a set of known criteria. What a non-partner like iFixit would like - after I design a device - would not figure into my design targets.

 

[schnackenpfefferhausen]

Shit Apple does.

You'd think if Apple was truly as committed to the environment as they claim.. then they'd embrace repair. But instead they take the "ending is better than mending" (someone's gotta get the reference, right?) approach..

 

[john-whorfin]

Since Apple wants to be the only one who can repair Apple products, I say let them. But pass a law that requires them to provide ALL repairs free of charge for a period of 20 years from date of purchase. regardless of the reason the product is broken.

 

[Downrazor]

My car is the same. When I replaced the battery, I had to "sync" it with the onboard ECU. When my 3rd party mechanic said he couldn't do it, I ended up having to take it to the dealership to get done.

What is the make and model? So I know what to avoid..

 

[RTFMUsuallyHelps]

What is the make and model? So I know what to avoid..

2018 Mini Cooper S. Pretty much any Mini from 2013 on requires this when changing the battery. I think recent BMW models require the same as well.

 

[fitten]

That joke was not funny 12 years ago, just had to break it out now, huh?

I had one of the iPhone 4s that had that problem. I could demonstrate it by calling someone (like a friend standing next to me), placing the phone on my desk, and then being very careful to not touch it except for the tip of my finger right on that gap. You could watch the signal strength drop and disconnect the call within a few seconds. I performed this "trick" many times. It was 100% reliable. And that's to say nothing about actually using the phone normally (not trying to perform the trick). I had to be very careful to hold the phone weirdly to mind the gap and if I forgot or was distracted, call dropped. But then I was told I was holding the phone wrong

 

[Skyssx]

That joke was not funny 12 years ago, just had to break it out now, huh?

That joke was funny when the iPhone 4 was current production and is still funny today. It will never not be funny, because it will never not be analogous to whatever Apple is doing with their current hardware.

I had that phone. I put a case on it; problem solved.

 

[zgillet]

Can't or won't? I'm surprised that Apple management still hasn't figured out which way the wind is blowing on the topic of repairability. How much money can they possibly be making on repairs? Is it really worth these shenanigans?

No, not repairs. Replacements.

 

[SittingDuck]

My Apple Pencil 2nd gen has been going strong for over 3 years now without a single issue.

Five years here, with 1-3 hours of daily use. I do replace the plastic tips when needed.

 

[graylshaped]

Five years here, with 1-3 hours of daily use. I do replace the plastic tips when needed.

My first gen still works fine. It outlasted the iPad, in fact.