Apple Browser Thread

[Unamuseumed]

Hey y'all, couldn't quite find the right place to post this, so I figure I'd start a thread...

What's everybody's browser preferences and why?

I'm casting about for a new primary browser across my devices (MacOS and iOS primarily). I had been using Arc for some time, but the ending of active development there, and some pinch points with my primary web apps (the sidebar tabs gets annoying with Airtable) made me finally decide to cut it loose. I was also trying to more properly set up profiles as I've got multiple logins for the same services and the tab system of Arc at that depth was really messing with me.

Naturally I decided to start by switching back to Safari (I also use Apple Password Manager a lot) but Tahoe Safari is... functional but not what I would define as amazing. Broadly I don't mind Liquid Glass, but Safari is where I really see the rough edges come out (the Toolbar is simply fugly, don't know how that made it into production). There are also some sites that just won't play nice with Safari still for some reason.

I flatly don't want to utilize Chrome except in the rarest of necessary spots. Aside from the resource hog nature, I really want to de-Google as much as I can (I might finally take the plunge and switch to Kagi).

This whole thread was partly inspired by installing Orion (by Kagi) and my sheer delight in the opening video that is so reminiscent of early OSX installers (I burst out laughing in the best way). Anyone running Orion full time in preference to Safari? Are we all just still using Firefox? Opera is still around right?

Figured I'd ask the crowd, and perhaps this can be a space for us to air future Safari grievances

 

[ant1pathy]

Safari. I have "basic" browsing needs and nothing yet has forced me to install Chrome. I have to disable the ad blockers on occasion, but that's about it. Low memory usage, low battery consumption, all my logins work just fine. I do spend a lot of time in private browser, since I have low trust in "we promise not to track you", but I would feel the same there regardless of browser.

 

[Schpyder]

I've trialed a TON of browsers in my ongoing quest to de-Google and de-MS my digital life. I've currently settled on a pair (which I use both on MacOS and Windows):

Helium for Chromium-based as my daily driver
Zen for Firefox-based when I want something more Arc-like (the UI is extremely similar)

My needs are relatively minimal, and I don't need or want crazy customization, but I do absolutely want vertical tabs (and not just a duplicate of the tab list at the top, so Safari is out for now). Both have essentially zero bullshit, and both support uBlock Origin (Helium actually ships it included), and the extensions of their parent browser projects. Neither has DRM support for video, so I do still use Safari if I want to watch Hulu or something.

Opera/Brave/Vivaldi/Firefox I all have various issues with, whether it's feature bloat, UI issues, or corporate leadership. Orion I have installed, and it's basically Better Safari, but there are some things it carries over from Safari that preclude it from being my daily driver (particularly WebHID support and maintaining the session when opening links in new tabs in the private/incognito/whatever mode). Anything AI-focused is automatically out. I'd consider Waterfox or LibreWolf, but I they have the same issues that Orion does in terms of features I miss.

On iOS I just use Safari because until we get different rendering engines allowed a la the EU, everything there is just a coat of paint over a WebKit control anyway.

 

[wxfisch]

I used to use Orion on iOS and Mac and ended up with nothing but problems. It would crash fairly often, some pages just wouldn't work in it, it was a huge battery hog on mobile, and it was slow. For my Mac I have tried most of the major ones: Chrome, Edge, Firefox, etc. and I too just use Safari there now. Everything else was either Chrome with a skin (a chrome), was slow/buggy, or lacked integrations that I had grown to like with Safari on my iPhone. I don't use the Apple password manager (I use Proton Pass but am likely switching back to Bitwarden within the next year since I have moved my email out of Proton), but it genuinely just works for me. It doesn't have a ton of features, but it has bookmarks, tabs that I can break out to different windows or into tab groups and seamlessly integrates into the rest of the OS (especially on iOS where apps usually assume you have Safari as a common browser).

I don't use things like vertical tabs, AI integrations, watch streaming content (I have a great TV for that), etc. I go to web pages, maybe buy a thing, read an article, and then move on. On my desktop I do use it to work with ProxMox and some self-hosted apps, but those have never given me issues in safari. I also don't hate liquid glass, I get that it isn't everyone's cup of tea but I think it looks pretty decent most of the time, especially with some of the usability enhancements that have been added recently. I think the toolbar in iOS is fine, it isn't design award winner great, but I have seen much worse in other apps in terms of UI that tries to be so minimal it is no longer useful. The biggest gripe is the need to use gestures to really make Safari on iOS work well, but once I got those down into muscle memory it hasn't been something I think a lot about.

 

[cateye]

I want to like Safari. And every so often, I try to like Safari, switching back to it on MacOS for a few months to take advantage of all the nice ways it tightly integrates into the Apple universe. But it eventually drives me nuts, due to UI, missing features, or speed, and I end up back on Chrome, which, if I'm honest, I just plain prefer how it works and the much faster pace of development compared to Safari. But I get that a lot of people don't want to use Chrome and that's fine, because there are so many other good choices.

I trialed Edge for a while—it's pretty good! But while I have deep integration in Google's universe and therefore can leverage parts of that with Chrome, I have almost no exposure to Microsoft other than my XBox and associated accounts, so Edge doesn't get me much of value.

On iOS I stick with Safari. If at some point Apple relents and allows 3rd party browser engines on iOS, I may survey my options based on what new capabilities that brings to the table.

 

[DrDuuude!]

On iOS I use Safari - primary for 1st party integration and because I do my REAL browsing on the Mac.

On the Mac, Safari is my primary browser. It's....fine. You do get the 1st party integration which I like, it's easy on battery (comparatively), and it syncs with iOS Safari.

As my backup, I use Brave - I understand they have corporate issues, but it's really only for sites that require Chromium based browsers, so I use it < 5% of the time. I use an ad-blocker with Safari (Wipr 2) but NOT with Brave as I'm looking for maximum compatibility. The other reason I chose Brave is that they don't have an always running background process for updates and who know what else, like Chrome does. Tried Vivaldi and didn't like it. Firefox is fine, but has some sites that it doesn't work with.

My real beef with Safari is that there's so many features that I'd love for it to have (as default or optional) that frankly, Apple just doesn't seem to want to take the time and effort to implement. Whether that's better support for PWA, being able to turn off Javascript on a per site basis, vertical tabs, etc.

As an aside, I subscribe to Kagi and LOVE it. I haven't used Orion, and frankly wish they would stick to their knitting as I really want the search product to live long and prosper.

 

[dal20402]

This response is about the Mac, because all browsers on iOS are still WebKit (although, oddly, I did have one site work with "Chrome" on iOS after it wouldn't work with Safari).

I use Safari primarily because of its energy efficiency, but the number of sites that break with it seems to be going up. Unfortunately that number includes a couple of sites I use regularly.

My backup for those sites is Firefox, and I like the vertical tabs of Firefox, but the macOS integration is not great, and neither is the effect on battery life. (I use Firefox as my primary browser on Windows these days and am pretty happy with it there.)

I will fire up Chrome when and only when (1) I am using Google Docs or (2) it is the only thing I can get to work, which has happened twice in the last two months.

I haven't tried some of the smaller browsers, but this thread is making me think I should have a second look.

 

[Honeybog]

(although, oddly, I did have one site work with "Chrome" on iOS after it wouldn't work with Safari).

I wonder if it has something to do with the user-agent string.

 

[educated_foo]

On Mac, I mostly use Safari with the DDG plugin and a couple others to tame sites' misbehavior. I also run LibreWolf (Firefox minus the AI and other trash) with uMatrix for a few sites that display wrong in Safari.

On iOS I mostly use the DDG browser, and sometimes Safari with JavaScript disabled.

 

[Dashiell]

Just started using quiche browser after seeing it on daringfireball.com for ios, it is as they say; the snappy. On the iMac safari technology preview.

 

[jaberg]

Safari. Because I’ve never had reason to use anything else.

 

[OAW]

Mac

1. Safari - Daily driver for the ecosystem and privacy benefits.
2. Edge - Backup for website compatibility and not being Google.
2. Chrome - If all else fails for website compatibility.

iOS

1. Safari - Daily driver for the ecosystem, privacy, and battery life benefits.

 

[Louis XVI]

My browser situation is a little frustrating. I’m generally quite happy with Safari—it’s quick, stays out of my way, and integrates nicely with all of my other Apple apps and devices. I don’t like Chrome very much, as it’s ugly, relatively slow, and chews up the battery, especially on the Mac.

But I use a fair number of websites that are in Greek, and my Greek is still poor enough that I generally need translation. Apple translate doesn’t do Greek, but Google translate does. On the iPad, I’m able to set my default translator to Google, so even though Safari doesn’t automatically translate Greek to English, I can still select a block of text and have it translated. On the Mac, I can’t change the default translator, so I can’t even translate chunks of text in Safari.

My fairly cludgy solution is to use Safari, except when I come across a website that’s in Greek, at which point I’ll open it in Chrome. (This is also easier on iPad than Mac, because for some reason, the Share menu on iPad includes “open in Chrome,” while I’m not able to add that option on Safari for Mac, so I have to copy the url, open Chrome, and then paste the url to finally get to the site.)

I really wish Apple translate would support Greek some day though, so I wouldn’t have to bother switching to Chrome at all.

 

[lloyddean]

AI says otherwise, paste into safari URL bar: "safari, translate to/from greek"

Not that AI's are always right.

 

[Louis XVI]

AI says otherwise, paste into safari URL bar: "safari, translate to/from greek"

Not that AI's are always right.

Alas, AI appears to be wrong. Typing that in just gave me search results for “safari, translate from Greek,” as I’d expect it to.

 

[lloyddean]

Sorry if this isn't helpful but here on this macMINI Safari offers up the following (including that it support Greek):

How to Translate Webpages in Safari (Mac, iPhone, iPad)

• On Mac: Click the Translate button (icon with "a" | "A" characters) located in the smart search field. Choose "Translate to [Language]" to change the page to your preferred language.
  Apple Support

Translating Selected Text

1. Highlight the text you want to translate within the Safari app.
2. Select "Translate" from the pop-up menu that appears.
   Apple Support

Which works for me under macOS/Safari 26.3.1

 

[Louis XVI]

Sorry if this isn't helpful but here on this macMINI Safari offers up the following (including that it support Greek):

How to Translate Webpages in Safari (Mac, iPhone, iPad)

• On Mac: Click the Translate button (icon with "a" | "A" characters) located in the smart search field. Choose "Translate to [Language]" to change the page to your preferred language.
  Apple Support

Translating Selected Text

1. Highlight the text you want to translate within the Safari app.
2. Select "Translate" from the pop-up menu that appears.
   Apple Support

Which works for me under macOS/Safari 26.3.1

Huh. I've found that when I go to a webpage that's in Greek on Mac Safari, the translate button doesn't appear, and when I try to translate selected text, it says that Greek isn't supported. I'm running 26.3.1 as well.

For example:

No translate button, and translation not supported in selected text. Greek translation isn't supported anywhere else in Apple's translation on Mac or iOS, either, though you can set the interface to Greek.

How did you get it to offer a Greek translation?

 

[wicker_man]

Safari mostly on iOS, but really the only best browser out there is Vivaldi.

The team are doing outstanding work on it:

• Chromium-based but de-Googlified
• No corporate issues, self-financed
• Feature set is unrivalled
• Everything is built-in, so much less reliance on extensions which can turn dodgy overnight.
• Tab pinning, stacking and tiling is the pinnacle of UI browser design.

 

[Bonusround]

The more browsers the merrier! I put several of them to work as follows:

• Safari for everyday browsing and research. I find tab groups to be a valuable organizational tool.
• Chrome as a work container: docs, sheets, admin for our GSuite account, etc.
• Brave is all YouTube.
• DuckDuckGo as my Amazon container.
• Firefox using its account containers feature for other commerce, and as a general browsing/ecosystem alternative.
• Tor when working under cover.
  
  
• Plus various sites housed in home-grown PWAs – Patreon, Kickstarter, MLB, etc.

 

[rekab]

I want to like Safari. And every so often, I try to like Safari, switching back to it on MacOS for a few months to take advantage of all the nice ways it tightly integrates into the Apple universe. But it eventually drives me nuts, due to UI, missing features, or speed, and I end up back on Chrome, which, if I'm honest, I just plain prefer how it works and the much faster pace of development compared to Safari. But I get that a lot of people don't want to use Chrome and that's fine, because there are so many other good choices.

I trialed Edge for a while—it's pretty good! But while I have deep integration in Google's universe and therefore can leverage parts of that with Chrome, I have almost no exposure to Microsoft other than my XBox and associated accounts, so Edge doesn't get me much of value.

On iOS I stick with Safari. If at some point Apple relents and allows 3rd party browser engines on iOS, I may survey my options based on what new capabilities that brings to the table.

Ditto. Pretty much everything cateye said. -- I want to like Safari, but at the end of the day, I just don't. I totally get how some folks want nothing to do with Google, but setting that aside for a moment, I think Chrome really is the best browser out there. Just my two cents.

 

[lloyddean]

Huh. I've found that when I go to a webpage that's in Greek on Mac Safari, the translate button doesn't appear, and when I try to translate selected text, it says that Greek isn't supported. I'm running 26.3.1 as well.

For example:

View attachment 131096
No translate button, and translation not supported in selected text. Greek translation isn't supported anywhere else in Apple's translation on Mac or iOS, either, though you can set the interface to Greek.

How did you get it to offer a Greek translation?

As I said, it may or may not, be helpful, and indeed upon trying it on your target page it does not function for me as well. Sorry …

 

[Scandinavian Film]

OP started that Apple Browser thread (thread)
App with the tabs (with the tabs)
The whole Ach was lookin' at them
They hit “Post thread” (they hit “Post thread”), next thing you know
Mem’ry got low, low, low, low, low, low, low, low
Them resource leak bugs
And the websites with the ads (with the ads)
They turned around and gave that slow browser SIGKILL (ay)
They hit “Post thread” (they hit “Post thread”), next thing you know
Mem’ry got low, low, low, low, low, low, low, low




…you ever have a dumb idea enter your head, and it won’t let you go until you finally share it with others? Yeah, me neither…

 

[Bonusround]

"Apple Silicon genes, boots in a blur"

 

[japtor]

Sorry if this isn't helpful but here on this macMINI Safari offers up the following (including that it support Greek):

How to Translate Webpages in Safari (Mac, iPhone, iPad)

• On Mac: Click the Translate button (icon with "a" | "A" characters) located in the smart search field. Choose "Translate to [Language]" to change the page to your preferred language.
  Apple Support

Translating Selected Text

1. Highlight the text you want to translate within the Safari app.
2. Select "Translate" from the pop-up menu that appears.
   Apple Support

Which works for me under macOS/Safari 26.3.1

One thing I've noticed with this function is that it's highly dependent on...something, to even appear as an option. There are times I've been on a site with a lot of Japanese or Korean (or whatever language), and the option doesn't show up at all, cause it assumes it's an English page, so no translation needed I guess? Not sure if it's like something in the HTML header, or something in the early content that determines it, but it's annoying when it's not even an option.

I often end up highlighting content to translate...but even that follows the same or some other similarly wonky heuristic that doesn't always work so it's not reliable either. If I get lucky I might be able to select more to get the Translate menu to show up, if it thinks it's English...but then by default the source language is English and target is Spanish, so that's just two more actions to take.

I end up just using Chrome for cases like that cause its translate will just work.

 

[dal20402]

I just planned a two-week trip to Japan, and ended up in Chrome a couple of times during the process for exactly this reason.

 

[Bonusround]

I just planned a two-week trip to Japan, and ended up in Chrome a couple of times during the process for exactly this reason.

It's so stupid. Apple, we know your interface designers like to combat clutter by being context aware. But please recognize this is an imperfect art. You already have a grab-bag 'everything' menu right there in the address bar. Just put the Translate command there, as a backup. Please.

 

[jeanlain]

You already have a grab-bag 'everything' menu right there in the address bar. Just put the Translate command there, as a backup. Please.

? There is a translate button in the address bar.

 

[Bonusround]

? There is a translate button in the address bar.

Yes, there is – sometimes – a translate button in the address bar.

Upthread:

One thing I've noticed with this function is that it's highly dependent on...something, to even appear as an option. There are times I've been on a site with a lot of Japanese or Korean (or whatever language), and the option doesn't show up at all, cause it assumes it's an English page, so no translation needed I guess? Not sure if it's like something in the HTML header, or something in the early content that determines it, but it's annoying when it's not even an option.

 

[benwiggy]

FireFox now can access MacOS Passwords, which was one of the major impediments to switching, as I don't know what half my passwords are. I use that on the rare occasions that a website doesn't play nice with Safari. Supposedly, some corporate/govt websites only work with Chrome -- in which case I have Vivaldi as a decent Chromium browser.

 

[jeanlain]

Yes, there is – sometimes – a translate button in the address bar.

Ok, what you want is the button to always be visible. Your post suggested there was no translate button in the address bar ("Just put the Translate command there").

 

[Bonusround]

Ok, what you want is the button to always be visible. Your post suggested there was no translate button in the address bar ("Just put the Translate command there").

The suggestion is that Apple offer the Translate command (always, deterministically) in a menu off the address bar, as a fallback for those times when it fails to display the in-line button automatically.

 

[Chocolate Coated]

On my own Macbook Air, it's Safari exclusively. I can't say I'm a particular fan of Safari, but if it saves me having to connect to the Google mothership, so be it. As with some other posters, I tend to gravitate to a fairly small set of sites that all seem to work in Safari, so it's good enough.

On the Macbook Pro supplied by work, it's Chrome, Edge and Safari in that order. Most of our users are on Windows boxes with Chrome or Edge, so I tend to use what they use to save switching browsers between looking for stuff and testing.

 

[japtor]

Ok, what you want is the button to always be visible. Your post suggested there was no translate button in the address bar ("Just put the Translate command there").

The issue (no matter where it is in the UI) is that the availability of the core translation function itself is dynamic...and often incorrect. Like on the iPad it'll show up in the general menu for stuff where Reader and whatnot is, it should just always be there in the dropdown. On the Mac it could be there or hell even one of the custom toolbar button options if someone needs it regularly enough.

 

[thomahawk]

Can I semi thread hijack—what Safari adblocker are we using these days? I've got AdGuard and Hush, and 1Blocker on my mobile devices, but they seem less and less effective, and I'm getting more and more infuriated by cookie acceptance popups and ads creeping into websites that used to be nice and quiet. At this point I'm very happy to pay some $ per year to something that can make all my devices nice and usable. Any suggestions?

Edit to contribute to the main thread purpose: I use Safari on my laptop, iPad, and phone, mainly because I am a surprisingly heavy user of iCloud tabs and shared browsing history. Quite often I'll open a link from a message on my phone and continue reading it on iPad, or open a link from NetNewsWire on my iPad and continue reading it from my Mac. Or sometimes I'll be talking to a friend, and want to send them a link I was browsing on my laptop, and I can find the link in my history on my phone and message it to them. I'm genuinely interested to try some of the "new gen" browsers like Vivaldi or that other one Gruber mentioned, but until they support cross-device tab loading, I always hit this x-device friction point and go back to Safari. Plus, it's generally fine. I've always found it snappy enough and battery-friendly enough.

Edit to the other edit: Passwords are another factor. There's a whole 'nother thread to be had about 1Password vs Apple's inbuilt password manager vs. other options, but geez I just find it more and more intrusive/confusing to work out which system has managed to hijack the login button and capture my credentials, or whether I've got a "passkey" on whichever device+browser combo I'm trying to use. It's a big hassle, and switching up multiple browsers across devices would make it much worse; at least if everything's in Safari then I don't also have to contend with whatever Chrome/Brave/Arc wants to try and do with my credentials.

 

[ant1pathy]

Can I semi thread hijack—what Safari adblocker are we using these days? I've got AdGuard and Hush, and 1Blocker on my mobile devices, but they seem less and less effective, and I'm getting more and more infuriated by cookie acceptance popups and ads creeping into websites that used to be nice and quiet. At this point I'm very happy to pay some $ per year to something that can make all my devices nice and usable. Any suggestions?

Wipr.

 

[Unamuseumed]

Can I semi thread hijack...

Haha, feel free, it's all browser talk.

I've had Ghostery and StoptheMadness installed on my Safari implementations for... forever? A long time. That said I've had StoptheMadness disabled since I switched back as it didn't play nice with Airtable (which I'm on alot).

 

[Bonusround]

Can I semi thread hijack—what Safari adblocker are we using these days?

1Blocker, Firefox Focus, and UBlock Origin.

 

[Galvanic]

Wipr

 

[Schpyder]

Can I semi thread hijack—what Safari adblocker are we using these days? I've got AdGuard and Hush, and 1Blocker on my mobile devices, but they seem less and less effective, and I'm getting more and more infuriated by cookie acceptance popups and ads creeping into websites that used to be nice and quiet. At this point I'm very happy to pay some $ per year to something that can make all my devices nice and usable. Any suggestions?

Wipr 2.

 

[OAW]

Can I semi thread hijack—what Safari adblocker are we using these days? I've got AdGuard and Hush, and 1Blocker on my mobile devices, but they seem less and less effective, and I'm getting more and more infuriated by cookie acceptance popups and ads creeping into websites that used to be nice and quiet. At this point I'm very happy to pay some $ per year to something that can make all my devices nice and usable. Any suggestions?

1Blocker.