After ruining Android messaging, Google says iMessage is too powerful

Google failed to compete with iMessage for years. Now it wants Apple to play nice.

Read the whole story

 

[Adreaver]

On the one hand, Google is right - iMessage works great for iPhone-to-iPhone communication, but the fallback to the old SMS/MMS standard is a negative for everyone, including Apple customers, in all other scenarios.

On the other hand, I trust Google exactly as far as I can throw them with regards to maintaining a messaging standard or platform. They had Hangouts, which did almost everything iMessage did at the time (no E2EE but it covered everything else), PLUS it had an iOS client, and it was tied to a gmail address, which almost everyone has. Then they killed it, because reasons, so they could make a new client (Allo) that wanted some assistant integration for some reason (presumably so they could read your messages and serve better-targeted ads). Then they killed Allo, which was terrible anyway, and resurrected the husk of the AOSP messaging app as a first party proprietary thing, with new and improved carrier lock in.

It's garbage.

The solution is Signal, but getting people to adopt a non-default messaging app that none of their friends are on is very difficult. I tried before, with Hangouts, with limited success, and Google spat in my face. Never again.

Given that, swapping the SMS/MMS fallback for iMessage (and Signal, and anything else with SMS/MMS fallback) for RCS (which then falls back to SMS/MMS if you have 2g service or no data), seems like the least-worst option.

Signal? No way. I'm not adopting anything that's not interoperable with all the default apps people might have on their phones. Interoperability is by far the most important feature of a messaging app.

Signal is interoperable, but it falls back to SMS/MMS. If you made Signal (and iMessage, and the rest) fall back to RCS, then each user could choose their preferred app based on their preferred feature set, and still have a reasonably decent experience (including E2EE for anybody who implements Google's E2EE API) when messaging somebody using a different app.

It would also be much easier to say "Hey, you should try Signal, it works great!" when you don't have to follow it up with "well except for anyone you message who isn't on Signal, then it sucks worse than what you have now".

 

[Rakmo]

Texting should bring us together, and the solution exists. Let's fix this as one industry.

Correct, the solution exists, and it is called Signal.

Now try to convince your family and friends to install and use it.

It is not that difficult! After some years of using Signal and uninstalling Whatsapp all my close friends and family use it.

In the meantime I missed some friends groups and I had to manage some conversations by SMS. That is a trade I'm ready to accept to not share my conversations with Facebook.

 

[IntergalacticWalrus]

Can't say I've ever been particularly bothered by the fact that I use several different messaging apps for talking with various people. Monopolies are bad. Not being tied to a single proprietary platform is good.

Apple's iMessage "lock-in" is irrelevant at best, if I'm talking to an Android pleb there are several other messaging platforms we can use, in no way are we stuck in "green bubble" mode, so why is that such a big deal for people? I don't really get it.

 

[Starouscz]

Google's sour grapes about their 13 failed messaging platforms are hilarious, but the broader topic is perhaps more interesting.
Data and platform access as modern anti-trust measures is an idea that's been kicking around for a little while, and this fits neatly in that box.

I don't know what I believe about the efficacy of those remedies – it's never really been tried, so we can only go off of beliefs and heuristics!
I don't know the specific importance of messaging to buttressing the sum corporate power of Apple. I also don't have strong opinions about an action like opening the imessage standard to all might deleverage corporate power and generate competition in addition to the competition that exists now.

That being said, messaging is a multi-billion-dollar market, so it's not a trivial or negligible discussion. Such actions would have some effect, and gaming them out would be interesting. Having some epistemic humility and keeping the debate open and open-minded will serve us all well.

https://www.yalebooks.co.uk/display.asp ... qf=/6_15

Edit: I put down 17 message platforms as a hyperbolic guess. Re-reading and seeing that it's 13 means hyperbole is dead.

In general i think forced Interoperability is a good solution related to internet monoplies / companies with too big share in one field.

Forcing companies to make apis that competitiors can access can go a long way. It can also give space for new startups to spring up.

 

[steveq]

Who'd have thought developing one app, sticking to it and improving it year after year would be more successful than repeatedly scraping what you have and starting over with scattershot features every other year.

 

[lasertekk]

iMessage lock in is such a funny concept for me
Here in Italy m even iOS users tend to not use iMessage, or at least that’s my personal experience.

unless there is a market "dominance" of iOS devices, you are likely to run into people having Android. I think it is a critical mass issue, there is no country where iOS has a dominant marketshare except the US and only in certain demographics.

Here in Argentina (one country but the same applies to the rest of south and central america) people uses whatsapp FOR EVERYTHING, even for phone calls because most carriers decided not to count whatsapp's traffic against your data caps, making it quite popular.

Whatsapp is a google property. I would question any level of meaningful encryption and worry about their core business of data mining.

Whatapps is not owned by Google, but Facebook. It uses the same encryption as Signal. Metadata is a different story though.

Facebook, google. Same criminals.

 

[purecarrot]

Texting should bring us together, and the solution exists. Let's fix this as one industry.

Correct, the solution exists, and it is called Signal.

Well, actually...

The solution is called Encrypted RCS. If people would actually read Lockheimer's tweet thread they would know that.

On one level, this entire problem is nonsense. I don't dispute that iMessage conveys a certain status, and those left out might feel slighted. However, instead of whining that a competitor should have to hobble their product in order to create a level playing field, raise the standards for everyone. Almost all of the additions - at least the ones people would care about - that Apple created for iMessage have RCS equivalents.

With the exception of encryption - which if it is to be a truly global solution, kind of has to be run by a third party (e.g, a carrier) and might require reworking the protocol - everything else is a solved problem.

It's taken the carriers, what, six years to implement RCS? Having a carrier implement encryption isn't a global solution, it's chaos. Also what if I want to message from, oh I don't know, a computer or tablet? Call me when I don't need a SIM/phone and the encryption has been solved. Those are the "additions" that matter. Without them RCS will never be a candidate for a "truly global solution". Until then it's just the next evolution of SMS and MMS.

Standards are hard. Proprietary solutions? Not so much. That's why we have infinite number of messengers and just one (outdated) messaging standard. But the standards have unique role and value compared to regular apps.

Why the ever-loving fsck are you typing yourself into a frenzy about this non-issue, anyway? When your beautiful, standards-compliant, non-Apple-tainted, Google-proprietary, mostly-RCS-compliant messages app sends my evil, proprietary, standards-hating iPhone a text message, I still receive it. And you will receive my reply just the same.

Also, my doctor’s SMS messages arrive just fine on my iPhone. Until I tell them to cut it the fuck out, that is. Because I’m an adult who can manage his appointments just fine without help.

Instead of feigning outrage that your message shows up inside a green bubble on my phone, you ought to be upset that you’ve been made a stooge who’s mindlessly regurgitating Google’s agenda, which btw is exactly the same agenda Apple’s got: $$$

So, your iPhone does support SMS messaging but you are against adopting an improved standard? I really don't care what sort of bubbles Apple shows to you, but, for example, some people may appreciate seeing an indication that iPhone owner is typing a reply. Is this too much to ask of Apple?

 

[jeffbax]

I'd like to see Apple adopt RCS but still keep those using it green. It's an invaluable signal that your message has no expectations of privacy at all (as fallible as iMessage may be vs. Signal, its still much better than SMS)

But I'd like to stop images and group texts from sucking so hard with my friends that will always be on Android. Until I can actually send to a Signal/Telegram/Whatsapp user via the Messages app (so it's all in one directory) the status quo is a much worse experience for iPhone users too.

 

[LeftCoastRusty]

I’m absolutely astounded that there is an “issue” over the color of text bubbles. And that one of the largest companies in the world is whining about it. And even more, that some people here think this should be a standards issue.

So every dominant product that is associated with a color should face regulatory scrutiny and be required to share their color? Give me a break. Go suck eggs, Google.

 

[traumadog]

Eat crow Google. After all the shenanigans you pulled with YouTube (blocking it on Windows Phone and the Echo Show) the largest video platform I have zero tears for you if another company doesn't want to release a service on your platforms. And unlike Google did with YouTube it's not like Apple is picking and choosing the winners and losers of whose platforms they will support, it is a feature exclusive to their products alone. All other platforms are equal in the "I don't have iMessage" category, but I don't see Microsoft crying a river of crocodile tears

Well, we have the situation where WindowsMobile is dead and that Microsoft's mobile devices now use Android. So, Microsoft really doesn't have its own mobile platform.

 

[Torrijos]

Bullying aside, it seems pretty obvious that Apple intentionally futzed with the colors to make it harder to read messages that come in as green bubbles. I wonder if it's enough for there to be a regulatory angle on that alone?

Actually, if I remember correctly, green is the color where we detect the most nuances and contrasts...
The reason why HUDs were made green.

And the blue/green switch from Internet / Carrier has always been very useful. It would probably cost nothing for Apple to handle RCS like SMS.

But the article nails it...
Google is just whining because they are unable to do anything but sell us soda and laundry all day long... Leave tech to the tech guys ^^.

 

[King_DuckZ]

Correct, the solution exists, and it is called Signal.

Signal is my main texting app these days. But interoperability is its Achilles' heel. Moxie and co. need to stabilize the feature set and make it an open protocol asap.

If you want an open protocol then Matrix would be your best bet. Signal (which I also use) is doing their own thing and that's perfectly fine.

Also, what interoperability issues are there with Signal? It supports Android, iOS, Windows, Mac, and Linux. What exactly is missing?

And if you want the best of the best, you bridge Signal over Matrix and congrats, you made one step forward in consolidating your contacts list into one single app!

Oddly I don't see any mention of an XMPP bridge there. Though as I mentioned, if you install Jitsi for video in the Matrix server, then you get Prosody XMPP server along for the ride, coz Jitsi depends on it. I don't think that counts as a bridge.

It should be part of the libpurple bridge, if I'm not mistaken. But I have to be honest and say I failed at installing/configuring that particular bridge, so I never tried it.

 

[Thunderracker]

Headline:

After ruining Android messaging, Google says iMessage is too powerful
Google failed to compete with iMessage for years. Now it wants Apple to play nice.

If a poster had put that in a comment it would get a bunch of downvotes.

I am going to say it anyways. Google had Hangouts and then killed it. I had hangouts on my iPhone back then. even today I have Google chat for work.

My point is that Google can do one of two things about it. 1 come up with something better, or 2 buy Signal, make it the default android app and we are done.

But whining about bubble color is utterly stupid.

Number 1 won't happen, and guess what? They can't buy Signal so that won't happen either.

They could just preinstall it though anyhow. I'm sure they won't mind lol.

.
Google has enough money that they can buy anything that they want. While signal the app may be off the table, it is open source and nothing stops them from rolling that into default Android other than a lack of want to.

So since I agree with you, this is a problem of Google’s own making. They need to accept responsibility for the fix they are in and get on with it.

As a consumer of Apple, Microsoft and Google products and services, nothing is less interesting to me than listening to giant behemoths wine about other giant behemoths.

 

[BioTurboNick]

On the one hand, Google is right - iMessage works great for iPhone-to-iPhone communication, but the fallback to the old SMS/MMS standard is a negative for everyone, including Apple customers, in all other scenarios.

On the other hand, I trust Google exactly as far as I can throw them with regards to maintaining a messaging standard or platform. They had Hangouts, which did almost everything iMessage did at the time (no E2EE but it covered everything else), PLUS it had an iOS client, and it was tied to a gmail address, which almost everyone has. Then they killed it, because reasons, so they could make a new client (Allo) that wanted some assistant integration for some reason (presumably so they could read your messages and serve better-targeted ads). Then they killed Allo, which was terrible anyway, and resurrected the husk of the AOSP messaging app as a first party proprietary thing, with new and improved carrier lock in.

It's garbage.

The solution is Signal, but getting people to adopt a non-default messaging app that none of their friends are on is very difficult. I tried before, with Hangouts, with limited success, and Google spat in my face. Never again.

Given that, swapping the SMS/MMS fallback for iMessage (and Signal, and anything else with SMS/MMS fallback) for RCS (which then falls back to SMS/MMS if you have 2g service or no data), seems like the least-worst option.

Signal? No way. I'm not adopting anything that's not interoperable with all the default apps people might have on their phones. Interoperability is by far the most important feature of a messaging app.

Signal is interoperable, but it falls back to SMS/MMS. If you made Signal (and iMessage, and the rest) fall back to RCS, then each user could choose their preferred app based on their preferred feature set, and still have a reasonably decent experience (including E2EE for anybody who implements Google's E2EE API) when messaging somebody using a different app.

It would also be much easier to say "Hey, you should try Signal, it works great!" when you don't have to follow it up with "well except for anyone you message who isn't on Signal, then it sucks worse than what you have now".

Yep. Failing to support a better fallback standard is qualitatively making things worse for users.

For instance, my parents on iPhone don't understand why the videos they try to send me are basically unviewable due to the compression Apple has to use for MMS. It's obscene that Apple is using this to push iPhone sales artificially through a network effect.

 

[CaptBojank]

The fact that anyone isn't using Signal as their primary messaging app at this point is unfortunate.

Google should do a deal. Integrate Signal as their default messaging app. Then they can say "iMessage users can't talk to you fully encrypted, that's why they show up yellow in Signal."

You wouldn't want to be yellow, would you?

No thank you. More interoperability, please..not less.

 

[purecarrot]

Apple dragging their feet in adopting new tech is nothing new. Have they finally implemented full support for NFC?

 

[purecarrot]

On the one hand, Google is right - iMessage works great for iPhone-to-iPhone communication, but the fallback to the old SMS/MMS standard is a negative for everyone, including Apple customers, in all other scenarios.

On the other hand, I trust Google exactly as far as I can throw them with regards to maintaining a messaging standard or platform. They had Hangouts, which did almost everything iMessage did at the time (no E2EE but it covered everything else), PLUS it had an iOS client, and it was tied to a gmail address, which almost everyone has. Then they killed it, because reasons, so they could make a new client (Allo) that wanted some assistant integration for some reason (presumably so they could read your messages and serve better-targeted ads). Then they killed Allo, which was terrible anyway, and resurrected the husk of the AOSP messaging app as a first party proprietary thing, with new and improved carrier lock in.

It's garbage.

The solution is Signal, but getting people to adopt a non-default messaging app that none of their friends are on is very difficult. I tried before, with Hangouts, with limited success, and Google spat in my face. Never again.

Given that, swapping the SMS/MMS fallback for iMessage (and Signal, and anything else with SMS/MMS fallback) for RCS (which then falls back to SMS/MMS if you have 2g service or no data), seems like the least-worst option.

Signal? No way. I'm not adopting anything that's not interoperable with all the default apps people might have on their phones. Interoperability is by far the most important feature of a messaging app.

Signal is interoperable, but it falls back to SMS/MMS. If you made Signal (and iMessage, and the rest) fall back to RCS, then each user could choose their preferred app based on their preferred feature set, and still have a reasonably decent experience (including E2EE for anybody who implements Google's E2EE API) when messaging somebody using a different app.

It would also be much easier to say "Hey, you should try Signal, it works great!" when you don't have to follow it up with "well except for anyone you message who isn't on Signal, then it sucks worse than what you have now".

Yep. Failing to support a better fallback standard is qualitatively making things worse for users.

For instance, my parents on iPhone don't understand why the videos they try to send me are basically unviewable due to the compression Apple has to use for MMS. It's obscene that Apple is using this to push iPhone sales artificially through a network effect.

Ironically, Apple refusal to support the new standard makes iPhone users look like tech Neanderthals to the rest of the world (representing the vast majority).

 

[fknuckles]

I'm in Europe, I switched to chat apps due to cost of SMS.

...

Can't use iMessage because you never knew when a message will cost you 40p or £2 for containing photos.

Sure you can know. When you're sending to a non-iMessage (ie. SMS or MMS) number the send button is green.

If you're ever vigilant, sure. After you've paid a few pounds for the odd photo like me, you might find it easier to simply go where such mistakes can't happen.

 

[CraigJ ✅]

I may not be a fan of Apple. But I will defend them because…they at the very least know how to develop a product, know how to make it mature, and not have to reinvent the damn thing every 3 years.

I mean, I could name a few if you want. Touchbar, keyboards, Apple TV…

TouchBar and Keyboards are not products they are features. Features should be re-invented to improve them. Sometimes that goes poorly and you have to backtrack.

Not sure why Apple TV is in the list. Never had a complaint about mine.

2 words for you: "remote control".

 

[MiggityMikeB]

The amount of non-USA users praising WhatsApp is hilarious considering most people are trying to stay away from Facebook as much as possible. Facebook controlled WhatsApp isn't a viable alternative to actual private messaging, and it's weird to see so many people defending/praising Facebook for it. Also a little scary that Facebook of all companies is controlling text based communications for the rest of the world.

 

[trevorashman]

I have a teenage son. I have never heard of this being an issue. The only issue with iMessage I've ever encountered was iphones not recieving images in sms from Android phones... which kind of pissed off my mother in law who couldn't receive pics of her grandson for most of the pandemic!

 

[purecarrot]

The amount of non-USA users praising WhatsApp is hilarious considering most people are trying to stay away from Facebook as much as possible. Facebook controlled WhatsApp isn't a viable alternative to actual private messaging.

You might have a skewed perspective on how people outside a small pro Apple bubble view Facebook. Just compare Facebook and Ars user base sizes.

 

[IntergalacticWalrus]

The amount of non-USA users praising WhatsApp is hilarious considering most people are trying to stay away from Facebook as much as possible. Facebook controlled WhatsApp isn't a viable alternative to actual private messaging.

You might have a skewed perspective on how people outside a small pro Apple bubble view Facebook. Just compare Facebook and Ars user base sizes.

But this praise is coming from actual Ars users.

 

[pidgin8]

imessage is only a thing in the US. Everywhere else is either SMS or whatsapp.

That's not entirely accurate, I live in Belgium and most of my contacts use iMessage. The rest prefer Signal or WhatsApp (who uses SMS anyway?).

 

[ripvlan]

Google chat tools have died, mostly for being isolated, and now they recommend RCS? They have no credibility. The author has it right. RCS is phone based. These chat apps need to be internet based.

Every single Google chat app has tried to talk to itself (except maybe Hangouts). In a way, RCS also only talks to itself. Seems to be par for their course.

Google could change the color of their chat app - so at least it's users could feel blue too.

 

[MD107139133334]

It's my experience that the vast majority of iPhone users are completely unaware that iMessage exists, why the texts are different colors, or why they would even remotely care. This is why iMessage is so great, the average user can be completely ignorant of it's existence.

ARS readers are not average users. Culture of other countries can obviously dictate the use of WhatsApp or other apps, but my comment is relevant to the US where both companies are located.

 

[Lewie]

"Teens and college students said they dread the ostracism that comes with a green text.

This is bullshit. This is so dumb, holy cow. I...wow. I'm a teen, and NOBODY I know cares a hoot about green or blue messages. I...wow. This is pathetic.

 

[Killdozer77]

Teens and college students said they dread the ostracism that comes with a green text.

Oh my God. Reading this makes me cranky and old.

It's from an article about teens from the Wall Street Journal so I'd take it with a grain of salt.

 

[ej24]

On Delta flights you can use free messaging via Wi-Fi on I-message, Facebook messenger, and WhatsApp. There's no Google option, because there's no unified Google Messenger that has been around for any amount of time.

Hangouts works, at least on Southwest airlines similar service. Not sure what else of Googles sprawling mess of messaging services might work though.

 

[xenog]

 

[Oldmanalex]

I imagine that sitting around the table with Google to agree on a common standard would be rather like a recitation of the entire Iliad done by the kid with ADHD and five Mountain Dews under his belt. Even if you hit the moving target, it would only be relevant for microseconds.

 

[Plutonashfan]

Hangouts was destined for greatness until Google self-sabotaged. Honestly, they deserve to fail at messaging.

This I had convinced my entire family and social circle to use hangouts. It's was an easy upsell then they destroyed it for no reason what's so ever.

 

[No Safe Exit]

An old story rehashed... Is that the best ARS can do? Completely irrelevant... Signal is the answer, not blue/green color nonsense.

 

[graylshaped]

What does RCS provide me as a user other than major regressions over my current messaging choices? RCS is a huge boon to carriers. That's about it.

RCS is a garbage, jank protocol that only a carrier shill would love.

RCS would not deny you your current choices. Have you ever received messages, say, from your dentist etc? They all come via SMS (but as typical clueless Apple customer you must believe they come via iMessages). Switching to RCS would improve this type of communications.

No, I don't get SMS from my dentist. So that's a pretty lame selling point.

Also, why do you falsely presume I don't know that Apple Messages uses SMS for non-iMessage clients?

I'll also point out that if your dentist was sending you SMS for appointments, it's not from the phone of someone working at the front desk. In the US, if you're a medical provider using SMS for patient care you are contracting that out to a HIPAA compliant messaging service which may or may not include RCS. For compatibilities sake I would conjecture it wouldn't have that, but I may be wrong.

For better or worse, I get text reminders from the receptionist at my dentist. I don't know if "you have an appt at 9:00 tomorrow" violates any HIPAA guidelines.

 

[Deleted member 174040]

The headline is an insult to the readers. I get Ron hates the operating system and company he's assigned to write about, but good lord this is getting absurd. It'd be nice if we could get someone other than a dedicated misanthrope to cover one of the two major mobile platforms.

Skip the articles you don't want to read. For some it's the Wired ones, others it's the automotive coverage and others it's Linux or Windows or Apple or Android.

Are isn't the only site that covers Android.

 

[Deleted member 174040]

Google's well-known "habit" of rolling out a product and then randomly getting bored with it and dropping it (Hangouts, Trips, etc.) is one of the reasons I refuse to invest in their ecosystem. They aren't reliable when it comes to sticking with their own products.

I heard they might drop Android.

 

[comnut1]

TL;DR..... WHY does goggle think its one is 'best' ??? DO LOOK at the store, **hundreds* of apps to do it better, for different tastes...

 

[powerof3]

We are constantly told that iOS is hugely outsold by Android. So either those devices are breaking faster and accounting for artificially high looking numbers, or there is no way iOS has a monopoly on anything.

Or, just maybe, there are other countries on Earth that aren't the USA.

I'm from the USA. There is Canada, Mexico, China, Russia. I'm not aware of any other countries. Europe and Africa are countries, right?

 

[maninhat]

Teens and college students said they dread the ostracism that comes with a green text.

Oh my God. Reading this makes me cranky and old.

Children are cruel. If you didn't experience it in childhood you were either lucky or the bully.

Or not not raised in the US