Google failed to compete with iMessage for years. Now it wants Apple to play nice.
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After ruining Android messaging, Google says iMessage is too powerful
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The only way this is going to change in the US is if the carriers all declare SMS/MMS dead/legacy use only and start charging for sending messages.
It would cause lots of problems for devices (like alarms) that need to send out automated SMS messages, so I'm sure it's not going to happen anytime soon. However, it would force Apple to support RCS or iPhone users to switch to 3rd party cross-platform messaging apps, which would be an improvement for everyone (except Apple).
It would cause lots of problems for devices (like alarms) that need to send out automated SMS messages, so I'm sure it's not going to happen anytime soon. However, it would force Apple to support RCS or iPhone users to switch to 3rd party cross-platform messaging apps, which would be an improvement for everyone (except Apple).
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That's such a great story until you realize that most Euros are on Whatsapp, worse in every way.
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There is commonality with Apple and Google.
They are both evil, in their own ways. Google, is less subtle about it. Apple tends to profess "its a feature" that none of us asked for. And "us" being the ones that depend on and use their products.
Google's biggest fail is that when an app is becoming useful, there is a decision (AI perhaps? Eric?) to decommission it. And that Google, will sell your information, Apple keeps it inhouse, where Apple then markets their updates, revisions and direction, based on what they think you want, not what you are using and need. Apple has seen it profit from a considerable markup of hardware and the subscription model, along with the Applecare model (features it has that Jobs would never have allowed in 2005, but would approve of seeing how much revenue fear and accidental damage generate. Come on folks, they make their portables with aluminum..not just for the heatsink use, but that you can't undent aluminum cases! You can't lie "it came that way" with a dent and cracked display. I bet they figured EVERY MacbookPro user will contribute another $500 in addition to the purchase of the product. And that could also be Applecare+.
Google is evil. And so is AAPL. Don't be naive.
They are both evil, in their own ways. Google, is less subtle about it. Apple tends to profess "its a feature" that none of us asked for. And "us" being the ones that depend on and use their products.
Google's biggest fail is that when an app is becoming useful, there is a decision (AI perhaps? Eric?) to decommission it. And that Google, will sell your information, Apple keeps it inhouse, where Apple then markets their updates, revisions and direction, based on what they think you want, not what you are using and need. Apple has seen it profit from a considerable markup of hardware and the subscription model, along with the Applecare model (features it has that Jobs would never have allowed in 2005, but would approve of seeing how much revenue fear and accidental damage generate. Come on folks, they make their portables with aluminum..not just for the heatsink use, but that you can't undent aluminum cases! You can't lie "it came that way" with a dent and cracked display. I bet they figured EVERY MacbookPro user will contribute another $500 in addition to the purchase of the product. And that could also be Applecare+.
Google is evil. And so is AAPL. Don't be naive.
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“iCloud” is the thing you were needing.
Settings -> (your name at the top) -> iCloud and turn on “Messages”
For every device where that’s turned on, messages are all directly synced between them. If it’s not turned on, messages are kept locally, but backed up either on a Mac or via iCloud backups.
If a device is not using iCloud messages, new messages can still be synced between devices, just not the previous history. Email address based messages automatically go to all devices using that email as an iCloud login. For sms/phone number based messages, you can turn on the phone in
Settings -> Messages -> Text Message Forwarding
I’ve got it turned on with my iPhone 8+, iPad mini 6 and MacBook Air 2018 and they all have the same view of messages and can send SMS or other types of messages interchangeably. Rather convenient when a web app sends a validation code via SMS, Safari on the Mac will offer to paste it in directly.
Edit: forgot one important thing: make sure you have a synced address book as well. Otherwise the devices will just list the numbers …. Doesn’t have to be iCloud. Apple doesn’t care if email, calendars or address books are on iCloud, google, exchange, whatever. You can store notes on IMAP accounts too instead of iCloud, but they lose features.
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Worst thing about RCS/Google message: it does not support VPN. Let me be clear I'm not talking about the Message application falling back to SMS when connecting to a VPN or even not being to send/receive messages during the time of the VPN connection what could happen is that you get disconnecting from the RCS system and disconnecting from VPN won't help but the worst is that RCS messages sent during this RCS blackout period are actually lost.
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You don't have to be Sherlock to deduce that if your messages are being sent with a blue background, i.e. through iMessage, then your recipient is using an iPhone.
So this is an error, but it's substantively the same. Change "from" to "with".
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Explain why it is important and walk them through the install / setup. Almost everyone I’ve met is keen to begin using it.
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If you’re using a carrier profile for RCS, it should be able to automatically fall back to the cell connection; the gateway for MMS et al is usually not on the public network, but on a carrier private IP which can be on its own APN.
Google providing the RCS gateway doesn’t have that ability, so if you can’t reach it via normal network paths, well, just have to wait.
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My parents don't use smartphones. If you can get Signal on a non-touchsceeen device, please let me know how.
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I really don't understand what the issue is. My Mother, Brother and his wife all use IOS and text me all the time without issue. Everyone else is Android and I get their texts as well. With messages it is the same. I get their messages fine. They also use messenger just as well. Seems to me a story without a reason to be, at least for me.
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Well, this blew up fast...
Anyway, I'm no fan of iMessage. I hate that it's a closed platform that is obviously intended to keep people locked in the Apple ecosystem and as such causes fragmentation.
But... Google really has no credibility to say anything on this matter, and while RCS support would be a nice small improvement over basic SMS - and Apple should support it instead - it's still backward-looking and tied to the carriers. We need the big players to adopt an open system for internet messaging. I wish it was Signal - but I know it never will be. But then roll your own like with iMessage, but let it be open across platforms!
Anyway, I'm no fan of iMessage. I hate that it's a closed platform that is obviously intended to keep people locked in the Apple ecosystem and as such causes fragmentation.
But... Google really has no credibility to say anything on this matter, and while RCS support would be a nice small improvement over basic SMS - and Apple should support it instead - it's still backward-looking and tied to the carriers. We need the big players to adopt an open system for internet messaging. I wish it was Signal - but I know it never will be. But then roll your own like with iMessage, but let it be open across platforms!
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The issue is that:
1) There is no standard and open messaging system for devices over data. When you text Android users you use the very old, very limited, and unsafe SMS protocol.
2) If you are gonna use carrier-based messaging - at least use RCS. It's not good, but it's better than plain SMS.
But ideally, we didn't need 2 because we had 1. Of course, Google is part of the problem here so them complaining sounds more than a little hollow.
Edit:
Android -> Android: RCS
Apple -> Apple: iMessage
Apple -> Android: SMS
Android -> Apple: SMS
And it should all just be <insert open messaging framework here>
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For those carrying on about the lack of a standard - there's (of course) a relevant XKC
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Not if you need to communicate with someone in China it ain’t.
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Well damn! Its a good thing we’re talking about American teens and not boomer ArsTechnica commenters then, isn't it!? I hope you are a boomer, at least. Using facebook to socialize, yikes!
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This has really nothing to do with messaging. Teenagers (especially in US) are a prime target for advertisers. Collecting data on them (outside of web browsing) is a key focus of Google as they move from/towards the FLoC fiasco. Inability to mine messages and losing valuable audience to Apple (where they have limited visibility into behaviors) stings Google in the place that hurts - advertising revenue.
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Wait, does this mean people are actually paying for their SMS messages in the US? I don't think I've paid for an SMS for a decade!
I live in Australia and I assume RCS has rolled out here - certainly my "SMS" app on Android supports all the features mentioned here. Although generally people chat via whatsapp or facebook messenger in my experience most of the time.
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Yes. But we've had open protocols before (smtp, xmpp, now matrix) but they quickly turn into spam and junk havens without a strong central party to link accounts to unique human identities. And once you introduce that central party, the incentives for keeping protocols open and accessible fall away as those identity providers all want to be the center of the universe (apple, google, facebook, carriers).
Solve decentralized unique human identity, and the protocol (s) built on that will win.
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This will never, ever happen, and Moxie himself wrote a blog post about it.
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Since they got their $50 million endowment, after a suitable spool-up period, I have noticed that development (on Android and desktop, at least, as I don't use iOS) has accelerated substantially.
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The fact that anyone isn't using Signal as their primary messaging app at this point is unfortunate.
Google should do a deal. Integrate Signal as their default messaging app. Then they can say "iMessage users can't talk to you fully encrypted, that's why they show up yellow in Signal."
You wouldn't want to be yellow, would you?
Google should do a deal. Integrate Signal as their default messaging app. Then they can say "iMessage users can't talk to you fully encrypted, that's why they show up yellow in Signal."
You wouldn't want to be yellow, would you?
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I switched from iPhone to Android. All of my previous contacts' iPhones kept sending messages intended for me to /dev/null for months.
It was a giant pain to get their phones to forget I ever had iMessage. I have a hard time believing this wasn't intentional by Apple.
Oh and for all those saying "just tell your contacts to switch / not care", do you remember what it was like to be a teen? Apple has a lock on young people and they are 100% benefiting from encouraging in/out group behavior. It would be trivial to change the default color with no downside but they don't want to since it reduces peer pressure they benefit from.
I can only imagine how the comments here would differ if it was FB doing the exact same thing with WhatsApp. The outrage would be at a fever pitch.
It was a giant pain to get their phones to forget I ever had iMessage. I have a hard time believing this wasn't intentional by Apple.
Oh and for all those saying "just tell your contacts to switch / not care", do you remember what it was like to be a teen? Apple has a lock on young people and they are 100% benefiting from encouraging in/out group behavior. It would be trivial to change the default color with no downside but they don't want to since it reduces peer pressure they benefit from.
I can only imagine how the comments here would differ if it was FB doing the exact same thing with WhatsApp. The outrage would be at a fever pitch.
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On the one hand, Google is right - iMessage works great for iPhone-to-iPhone communication, but the fallback to the old SMS/MMS standard is a negative for everyone, including Apple customers, in all other scenarios.
On the other hand, I trust Google exactly as far as I can throw them with regards to maintaining a messaging standard or platform. They had Hangouts, which did almost everything iMessage did at the time (no E2EE but it covered everything else), PLUS it had an iOS client, and it was tied to a gmail address, which almost everyone has. Then they killed it, because reasons, so they could make a new client (Allo) that wanted some assistant integration for some reason (presumably so they could read your messages and serve better-targeted ads). Then they killed Allo, which was terrible anyway, and resurrected the husk of the AOSP messaging app as a first party proprietary thing, with new and improved carrier lock in.
It's garbage.
The solution is Signal, but getting people to adopt a non-default messaging app that none of their friends are on is very difficult. I tried before, with Hangouts, with limited success, and Google spat in my face. Never again.
Given that, swapping the SMS/MMS fallback for iMessage (and Signal, and anything else with SMS/MMS fallback) for RCS (which then falls back to SMS/MMS if you have 2g service or no data), seems like the least-worst option.
On the other hand, I trust Google exactly as far as I can throw them with regards to maintaining a messaging standard or platform. They had Hangouts, which did almost everything iMessage did at the time (no E2EE but it covered everything else), PLUS it had an iOS client, and it was tied to a gmail address, which almost everyone has. Then they killed it, because reasons, so they could make a new client (Allo) that wanted some assistant integration for some reason (presumably so they could read your messages and serve better-targeted ads). Then they killed Allo, which was terrible anyway, and resurrected the husk of the AOSP messaging app as a first party proprietary thing, with new and improved carrier lock in.
It's garbage.
The solution is Signal, but getting people to adopt a non-default messaging app that none of their friends are on is very difficult. I tried before, with Hangouts, with limited success, and Google spat in my face. Never again.
Given that, swapping the SMS/MMS fallback for iMessage (and Signal, and anything else with SMS/MMS fallback) for RCS (which then falls back to SMS/MMS if you have 2g service or no data), seems like the least-worst option.
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Signal? No way. I'm not adopting anything that's not interoperable with all the default apps people might have on their phones. Interoperability is by far the most important feature of a messaging app.
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Hangouts was good, and if Google had invested in it instead of starting 10 other messaging apps, they'd have an iMessage rival now. But instead they caved to the carriers.
Honestly, they deserve to fail at this.
Honestly, they deserve to fail at this.
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Errr…. MMS and RCS are both over data. Their traditional design goes over a private APN using IP to a carrier controlled gateway.
Edit: there’s open source SMSC and MMSC implementations if you want to poke around, but they’re pretty moribund projects in most cases. It’s not like many people need to play with that sort of thing.
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Well, the obvious solution is CALL YO MAMA…instead of accidentally sending her an eggplant.
People lazily rely on text, and have lost the idea of what a PHONE is used for.
Making CALLS.
Yes, I’m old and wear bifocals (just wait kids, those eyes will make your fingers fail someday)
Still, the amazing lack of clarity with texts makes me ignore them and just call the person.
People lazily rely on text, and have lost the idea of what a PHONE is used for.
Making CALLS.
Yes, I’m old and wear bifocals (just wait kids, those eyes will make your fingers fail someday)
Still, the amazing lack of clarity with texts makes me ignore them and just call the person.
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Most of my coworkers and I had MP3 players (lol @ that terminology) that had more features, better technology and lower prices. We couldn’t understand (then) why the iPods were growing in popularity.
Then the iPhone and the rest was history.
(I think the public would have embraced the iPhone and it would have been a hit even if Apple had never had the iPod lineup. But could Apple have built the iPhone without having built the iPod first?)
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that's the carrier. i've seen SMS's from ATT on my non-IOS work phone arrive two days after they've been sent.
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Literally not how that works. Unless you're claiming that the US is 100% iPhone while the rest of the world is 100% other, which is objectively false.
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Yes, Google deserves every bit of ridicule for this, but it's still true that Apple pissed in the pool. Mocking Google or beating the drum of a third-party messaging app doesn't change the fact that no "solution" will really make cross-platform messaging with iMessage less painful. Apple have gone from an ecosystem that had nice benefits for users who wanted them to an ecosystem that is actively hostile to the rest of the tech world.
Every generation has its "it" things, the status symbols. I'm too old to care whether my network uses Apple or Android; I'm not going to lecture the Apple junkies on the philosophical merits of leaving the walled garden, and I don't want them to pester me to join them in the One True Promised Land. Just let people use whatever client they like and deliver the damn messages using a modern feature set.
Every generation has its "it" things, the status symbols. I'm too old to care whether my network uses Apple or Android; I'm not going to lecture the Apple junkies on the philosophical merits of leaving the walled garden, and I don't want them to pester me to join them in the One True Promised Land. Just let people use whatever client they like and deliver the damn messages using a modern feature set.
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Messaging services are not required to be HIPAA compliant, nor do they claim as such AFAIK. The covered entity on the other hand, like a dentist, is required to comply with HIPAA regulation. As long as the appointment details do not include protected help information, the covered entity is in the clear. Just like the SMS text that they send out, a.i. plain text.
Utilizing messaging services for appointment still has privacy implication to the patient in my view. The service company will know your phone number, the type of doctor(s) you see, the location of the doctor(s) and the frequency you see them. There are probably a slew of third-parties that would love to get their paws on this data. The chances are that paying third -parties are already getting this data real-time...
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Google's well-known "habit" of rolling out a product and then randomly getting bored with it and dropping it (Hangouts, Trips, etc.) is one of the reasons I refuse to invest in their ecosystem. They aren't reliable when it comes to sticking with their own products.
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