Full-magazine reloads throw out muscle memory in favor of "higher stakes" decisions.
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After 25 years, Valve reworks Counter-Strike‘s reload system
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they will only walk it back if player numbers(and loot crate purchases) actually see a notable drop off.
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Reminds me of playing Gaige in BL2, who had a rolling buff to damage called Anarchy that would get erased as soon as you manually reloaded your gun instead of letting it automatically reload with an empty clip. "Don't accidentally reload, don't accidentally reload..."
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I like the change. Mindless reloading always stuck out to me since the very early days of CS when it was in beta and still a Half-Life mod.
If you want a partial magazine topped up, the animation should be of your guy pulling out the magazine and popping in bullets one by one like they do for the semi-automatic shotgun.
I wish more people played AHL. It was an awesome mod.
If you want a partial magazine topped up, the animation should be of your guy pulling out the magazine and popping in bullets one by one like they do for the semi-automatic shotgun.
I wish more people played AHL. It was an awesome mod.
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While this is arguably more realistic, that extra realism was decidedly not part of Valve's public justification for the change. Instead, they say it'll make for "higher stakes" in game decisions, make ammo management more meaningful instead of an "endless reserve supply," and make it easier to balance different weapons against each other.
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I first started playing CS in the beta days, in 1999-2000, and even then as a kid thought it was weird that reloading would magically pull the remaining bullets into a fresh magazine. But then again, there was bunny hopping, running faster with a knife, and one-shotting someone by shooting them in the foot with a sniper rifle... it's a video game!
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I mostly just remember that you had to manually purchase ammo back in the 1.6 days, but anyone halfway serious about the game bound it to a hotkey along with "buy AK47/M4A1 + Deagle + Flash + Armor/Helmet + Defuser". The only reasons to not instabuy ammo was for eco rounds or if you knew the opposing team had overconfident players who'd buy the most expensive guns early and you could easily grab one off a corpse.
I don't hate this change, but it does feel jarring to adjust something that's been fundamental for over 20 years seemingly for no reason other than "why not".
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You say that but I do 3gun competitions where the best scoring person there is a 50-something guy with an actual molded skull for the magwell of his AR. Ridiculous skins aren't that unrealistic.
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I wish the game could be made more accessible again. Basically for any newbie playing against veterans who played the same maps for 20 years it’s pretty frustrating. I was semi pro once too 5 in my country but if I want to play on some random servers there’s not much focus on teamplay and I don’t want to commit to some clan wars or fixed time slots.
There’s some great ideas already implemented in the matchmaking system but more could be added especially given the advances in AI - for example matching 5 of different players styles- so that not every one on the team wants to play awp etc
There’s some great ideas already implemented in the matchmaking system but more could be added especially given the advances in AI - for example matching 5 of different players styles- so that not every one on the team wants to play awp etc
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Makes sense to me, I always thought it was a bit odd that reloading just maxed out ammo from the pool when the game was more "grounded" than something like Doom or Duke Nukem.
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The first game I remember playing with this mechanic is interestingly, Mafia 1, and they dropped it for the second game.
It is understandable that the choice is between either discarding the partial magazine or automatically recycling the rounds back into the pool though. Any more realistic/granular system would require tracking each individual magazine, although the early Rainbow 6 games did in fact do that.
It is understandable that the choice is between either discarding the partial magazine or automatically recycling the rounds back into the pool though. Any more realistic/granular system would require tracking each individual magazine, although the early Rainbow 6 games did in fact do that.
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I loved how they had more and more unhinged quotes as the stack levels increased.
"God help you all if I actually HIT something!"
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Don't see why they couldn't have made it a new mode for servers. Maybe default to that as further encouragement, but seems a natural thing.
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I'm just really curious as to what actually drove this change. I'd assume there's some metric they measure that's changed in a way they don't like, and this change will improve said metric, but which one?
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I guess it's a personal problem that I have then, because I feel that Valve should have gathered some player feedback before making such a significant change. Instead it was marked on a brief blog post and immediately pushed to live servers.
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I'm sure the CS community with have a collectively calm & measured response to this news.
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I like the change, but pedanticish me says magazine and clip are not the same thing or interchangeable if you are trying to make a somewhat realistic game.
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It makes sense. Haven't played CS in many years but I don't remember total ammo ever being a consideration.
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I was thinking it might also be interesting to have a separate "repack magazines" action, where if the player has gotten behind some cover and thinks they are safe for a few seconds, they could trigger it, and it would essentially combine ammo from your non-full magazines - maybe have an animation that lasts say 3 seconds or something like that, where you pull out a magazine and start loading rounds into it.
Which would have the effect that if you have 3 magazines, one is in your gun and full, and the other two have say 5/10 and 4/10 rounds respectively, the repack option would create one empty magazine, and one magazine with 9/10 rounds in it.
I'm not sure, if your gun-loaded magazine isn't full, if it would pull it out, repack it, and reload it. Maybe?
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A very, very, very old mod for CS had this. Your partial magazines were saved, and if you could find a quiet corner (or had a friend covering you) you could merge your partial magazines. It took awhile (felt like forever, but was probably closer to 10 seconds), so it was high risk, but it could also be high reward.
I can't remember the name of the mod. But to give you a sense of age, it was possible to play on a 56k modem. Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go shout as some children on my lawn.
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From purely objective viewpoint you can argue for either this or the old design. I'm sure it really comes down to taste. I like the idea personally but here's the thing. People play CS2 because they like it. If they didn't like it they could play a different game (thousands to choose from here!) that might include this particular feature and others. Messing with success seems like just the sort of thing that a well-run company wouldn't do.
If they were really set on trying this idea what they should have done is introduced it as a special one month feature for "variety". And then at the end they could bring it back like Mcrib if it was somehow real popular.
If they were really set on trying this idea what they should have done is introduced it as a special one month feature for "variety". And then at the end they could bring it back like Mcrib if it was somehow real popular.
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I'm not actually against this specific mechanic, but I'm generally leery of more fundamental changes in established games - particularly when it's simply to change the vibe as opposed to fixing some pain point like when they tweaked how character model visibility worked so 'stealthy' skins were less effective. I do agree that this change matches the overall aesthetic of the game, but it arguably wasn't a pain point before so it feels like a change for the sake of change.
Maybe I'll give it a shot (pun absolutely intended). I've not played CS in years - last time the experience was so toxic that I went back to Overwatch (which should tell you something) - and I feel I'm due to revisit.
Maybe I'll give it a shot (pun absolutely intended). I've not played CS in years - last time the experience was so toxic that I went back to Overwatch (which should tell you something) - and I feel I'm due to revisit.
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I remember a game from long ago where there was a similar mechanic, except magazines were saved and then during quiet moments you could re-consolidate your partially spent magazines. Can't remember what it was, but might work here (not that CS has many quiet moments).
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I played pre-Steam Counterstrike, and I remember playing CS: Source when I got HL2 briefly, and I think I have CS2. The last time I played CS2, I scrolled until I found a server with the least competitive-sounding name that strongly implied players were drinking and playing for fun.
I hadn't realized that they'd changed it to unlimited ammunition at some point, I definitely remember the inevitable budget decisions when you kept dying and your team kept losing. I got very good at short-range kills with SMGs in part because they were affordable. That was part of the challenge, if you wanted to go into battle with an M4 and full ammo and body armor, you'd better be confident of your survival.
This feels like it's getting back to the original ethos of the series, but admittedly I haven't played since that time a few years back and hadn't noticed the difference at the time.
I hadn't realized that they'd changed it to unlimited ammunition at some point, I definitely remember the inevitable budget decisions when you kept dying and your team kept losing. I got very good at short-range kills with SMGs in part because they were affordable. That was part of the challenge, if you wanted to go into battle with an M4 and full ammo and body armor, you'd better be confident of your survival.
This feels like it's getting back to the original ethos of the series, but admittedly I haven't played since that time a few years back and hadn't noticed the difference at the time.
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You should have two options while reloading, dumping the mag and reloading faster or saving the mag and reloading slower.
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The first game I ever played that had this mechanic, if I recall correctly, was one of the Medal of Honour games on the PS1. I think it was only the M1 Garand that did it, too. I might have to dig out the game to see how well (or not) it has aged.
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The technique that worked for me was finding a server with a name like "<obviously wacky nickname>'s Bar! Warning: Bad Aim!" or something similar.
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Regarding how long it takes, it would make sense for it to be dependent on how many rounds you are loading.
Like 1/2 second to pull out the magazine, 1/2 second per round, maybe 1/2 second to store the magazine at the end?
Maybe even make it interruptible so you load 2/5 rounds, but put the magazine away so you can shoot at an enemy - but haven't completely repacked the mag. Meaning you have to try again if you want to complete it. Or maybe you never complete it and just reload the partially refilled magazine, now with 2 more rounds though - which might be enough.
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jonbob_newcastle
Ars Praetorian
Come to TF2. Most of the tryhards got bored and left years ago. We just dance, hug and use killbinds in an amusing fashion. Say no to toxicity, say yes to combat-themed hat simulators and accept no substitutes. We outlasted OW and we’ll still be there after OW2.
Ed: Overwatch vs. TF2, by TheWinglet, one of the top Source Filmmaker people.
Last edited:
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This has bugged me ever since I was a kid. I don't think arcade-y shooters should have this mechanic, but it would be interesting if more games didn't act like bullets are magical and can arbitrarily reload the amount.
Hit scan is the other one. It makes no sense that bullets are magical and teleport and come out of your scalp/eyes. Again, more arcade-y shooters shouldn't deal with that but it'd be interesting if more shooters had bullets be physical objects that come out of the barrel of the gun, and your gun is a physical object that can't magically stick through a small barrier to give you more cover.
Ironically Splatoon is an arcade-y arena shooter but the ink actually comes out of the gun and has fall distance, so you can't shoot from behind cover very easily. I feel like this is a by-product of video games reaching a certain level of maturity in design, things are taken for granted as "correct" and any deviation is seen as bad design or a gimmick.
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Call me a purist, but I like consistent physics. Sure, the physics may be imaginary and bullshit, but if they're CONSILIENT, then it's acceptable.
And that's where the old autoloader is a bit out of focus wrt physical ammo. It doesn't work that way IRL. You always lose what's in the clip if you reload before emptying it AND you don't go back to look for the tossed clips afterward.
CHANGING the clip in combat is now more physics consistent when you're low or out. Not just pressing a button and having it miraculously fully reloaded without the actual 2-3 seconds it takes to pull a clip from a belt, and ram it home, then work the slide or close it to be ready to shoot again (depending on how situationally aware you are for that).
Now, if they'd only limit the amount of ammo you can carry into battle without trotting back to the supplies to reload your empty clips (or be issued new, fully loaded clips) then it would be more realistic. Not sure "fun" plays into that kind of realism.
Personally FPS games aren't my thing for a variety of mental health reasons. But the physics plays into every game one way or the other. Realism is better for me, but consistency in the physics is better than realism.
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