Epstein client list, does it exist or not?

Lt_Storm

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Speaking of the Epstein list, and CBS hypocrisy, Peter Attia appears to be staying at CBS News despite Epstein communications. Sure, censor Colbert for the orange pedophile-in-chief, and while you're at it keep another Epstein lister as a fuck you to boot.
On one hand, crucifying someone because they knew someone who everyone knew is probably a bad idea. On the other hand, he wrote "The life you lead is so outrageous, and yet I can’t tell a soul ..." which suggests strongly that he knew something has some serious 'splaining to do. And the email chain it's attached to suggests that explanation will be ... difficult.

So, crucifying someone because they won't explain... On the other hand... seems like it is probably a good idea. Which makes me wonder where is that explanation?
 

Lt_Storm

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"knew someone who everyone knew" is a bit much. I, for example, did not know him.
You also don't hang out with rich and influential people. Turns out that's a fairly small club and Epstein made it his business to know basically everyone in it*. Indeed, that's a big part of why he was wealthy, in that club, Epstein was the man who knew everyone and was happy to connect you to someone it would benefit you to know (both for good and for ill).

* As this video from How Money Works explains nicely.

Edit: and, also, that's a pretty good reason to suspect that the smallness of that club is a problem we really need to fix.
 

LTParis

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Epstein files just keeps on uncovering more and more odd things. This particular exchange where Epstein mentions “some bad stuff about to happen in Israel” right before an attack.

IMG_5792.jpeg
 

Da Xiang

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I am still in awe of the actions that are immediately taken from other countries. A Prince, instantly arrested, others forced to step down, and still others are fired.While those are not the actions of self incrimination, it does say a lot towards guilt. My hope is these people take lighter sentences and turn on everything and everyone.This becoming an international cabal just says more than one person must know all the details.

Just a matter of scaring them enough or catching the right person. If this isn't another sign that billionaires should not exist I don't know what it. There will always be the haves and have nots, but at some point that separation needs to be corrected.
While those are not the actions of self incrimination, it does say a lot towards guilt. My hope is these people take lighter sentences and turn on everything and everyoneThis becoming an international cabal just says more than one person must know all the details. Just a matter of scaring them enough or catching the right person. If this isn't another sign that billionaires should not exist I don't know what it. There will always be the haves and have nots, but at some point that separation needs to be corrected.
This becoming an international cabal just says more than one person must know all the details. Just a matter of scaring them enough or catching the right person. If this isn't another sign that billionaires should not exist I don't know what it. There will always be the haves and have nots, but at some point that separation needs to be corrected.
You can say that again!
 

Klinn

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I am still in awe of the actions that are immediately taken from other countries. A Prince, instantly arrested, others forced to step down, and still others are fired.
That's what can happen when you have generally independent news media rather than a bunch of cowardly right-wing parrots.
 
Now these files don't have the missing link to directly say what is plain, but if the right wing lunatics shoot up a pizza place on even less than what we have seen, redacted and un-redacted and yet the right is so hard pressed to believe even an inkling of what this stuff shows.

There is more than a limited connection between the rich and powerful, and nothing. Is this just so big that no one can wrap their minds around it? Like the deep right, this is actually the lifelong conspiracy connection, but to the trump side not the left.

I realize the vast majority of MAGA is under/un educated I just compare this to the agnostic person meeting God, and the religious people finding out there is no God...

I still have a neighbor that is old thinking, and has a Trump flag flying, each new revelation, I wonder if today is the day the flag comes down. When it doesn't, I wonder if not this truth, then what would it take and is he just that lost or has he just plain overloaded and stroked out.

And even more so what is remaining that cannot be released, if the relased stuff is considered tame, WTF is remaining? THe photos, the emails, the videos, all of this is released, but damn, if the really bad stuff (used that term very lightly) has yet to be released or seen what exactly and how bad could it really be?

I have gone zero contact with my parents over their beliefs and deeply held MAGA side, I am waiting for some text or something saying they were wrong, to this day they have not sent anything.
 

Da Xiang

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Now these files don't have the missing link to directly say what is plain, but if the right wing lunatics shoot up a pizza place on even less than what we have seen, redacted and un-redacted and yet the right is so hard pressed to believe even an inkling of what this stuff shows.

There is more than a limited connection between the rich and powerful, and nothing. Is this just so big that no one can wrap their minds around it? Like the deep right, this is actually the lifelong conspiracy connection, but to the trump side not the left.

I realize the vast majority of MAGA is under/un educated I just compare this to the agnostic person meeting God, and the religious people finding out there is no God...

I still have a neighbor that is old thinking, and has a Trump flag flying, each new revelation, I wonder if today is the day the flag comes down. When it doesn't, I wonder if not this truth, then what would it take and is he just that lost or has he just plain overloaded and stroked out.

And even more so what is remaining that cannot be released, if the relased stuff is considered tame, WTF is remaining? THe photos, the emails, the videos, all of this is released, but damn, if the really bad stuff (used that term very lightly) has yet to be released or seen what exactly and how bad could it really be?

I have gone zero contact with my parents over their beliefs and deeply held MAGA side, I am waiting for some text or something saying they were wrong, to this day they have not sent anything.
just don't hold your breath
 
Now these files don't have the missing link to directly say what is plain, but if the right wing lunatics shoot up a pizza place on even less than what we have seen, redacted and un-redacted and yet the right is so hard pressed to believe even an inkling of what this stuff shows.

There is more than a limited connection between the rich and powerful, and nothing. Is this just so big that no one can wrap their minds around it? Like the deep right, this is actually the lifelong conspiracy connection, but to the trump side not the left.

I realize the vast majority of MAGA is under/un educated I just compare this to the agnostic person meeting God, and the religious people finding out there is no God...

I still have a neighbor that is old thinking, and has a Trump flag flying, each new revelation, I wonder if today is the day the flag comes down. When it doesn't, I wonder if not this truth, then what would it take and is he just that lost or has he just plain overloaded and stroked out.

And even more so what is remaining that cannot be released, if the relased stuff is considered tame, WTF is remaining? THe photos, the emails, the videos, all of this is released, but damn, if the really bad stuff (used that term very lightly) has yet to be released or seen what exactly and how bad could it really be?

I have gone zero contact with my parents over their beliefs and deeply held MAGA side, I am waiting for some text or something saying they were wrong, to this day they have not sent anything.

It's going to be extremely traumatically difficult for them, because they've accepted it into their identity. It basically needs full-scale cult deprogramming for an entire nation (see also: Brexit).
 

Gary Patterson

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Now these files don't have the missing link to directly say what is plain, but if the right wing lunatics shoot up a pizza place on even less than what we have seen, redacted and un-redacted and yet the right is so hard pressed to believe even an inkling of what this stuff shows.

There is more than a limited connection between the rich and powerful, and nothing. Is this just so big that no one can wrap their minds around it? Like the deep right, this is actually the lifelong conspiracy connection, but to the trump side not the left.

I realize the vast majority of MAGA is under/un educated I just compare this to the agnostic person meeting God, and the religious people finding out there is no God...

I still have a neighbor that is old thinking, and has a Trump flag flying, each new revelation, I wonder if today is the day the flag comes down. When it doesn't, I wonder if not this truth, then what would it take and is he just that lost or has he just plain overloaded and stroked out.

And even more so what is remaining that cannot be released, if the relased stuff is considered tame, WTF is remaining? THe photos, the emails, the videos, all of this is released, but damn, if the really bad stuff (used that term very lightly) has yet to be released or seen what exactly and how bad could it really be?

I have gone zero contact with my parents over their beliefs and deeply held MAGA side, I am waiting for some text or something saying they were wrong, to this day they have not sent anything.
On one hand we’ve got a vast tranche of documents, emails, photos and videos that strongly implicate Trump. Some of them may be fraudulent but all of them? There are so many, and the US govt refuses to release the really serious stuff, in spite of the law demanding it.

But on the other, Trump says it all exonerated him and right wing media (ie almost all US media) aren’t reporting much about all of this.

When someone is all in on Trump, the latter option is easy and doesn’t require any self-reflection.
 
That's what can happen when you have generally independent news media rather than a bunch of cowardly right-wing parrots.
The UK has the worst press in the western world. It is no coincidence that its major newspapers hacked the phone of a missing teenage girl, wiped messages from frantic parents who tried to call her to find out where she was, so that they could conceivably get a scoop to splash on the front pages. It is also no coindicence that when this became known, nothing much happened. The inquiry set up to investigate was largely ignored when it published its findings.
 

CPX

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I'm still waiting for any press or public figure to ask why Garland and associates sat on this shit for four goddamn years. Bad enough they wasted time completely failing the insurrection, immunity, ballot, and classified info cases, but they knew how bad these allegations were and did even less to follow up utterly vile shit directly tied to so many figures buying politics today.
 

Technarch

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I'm still waiting for any press or public figure to ask why Garland and associates sat on this shit for four goddamn years. Bad enough they wasted time completely failing the insurrection, immunity, ballot, and classified info cases, but they knew how bad these allegations were and did even less to follow up utterly vile shit directly tied to so many figures buying politics today.

Not just Garland but the entire administration seemed so terrified of appearing political that they chose instead to sit with their thumbs up their asses and hope the voters would bail them out. Turns out voters don't vote for feckless do-nothing losers.
 

CPX

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Not just Garland but the entire administration seemed so terrified of appearing political that they chose instead to sit with their thumbs up their asses and hope the voters would bail them out. Turns out voters don't vote for feckless do-nothing losers.

Sure, but there's a gulf of difference between not wanting to appear political and failing to action child rape and human trafficking. The latter is explicit neglect of basic societal values.
 

Macam

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Sure, but there's a gulf of difference between not wanting to appear political and failing to action child rape and human trafficking. The latter is explicit neglect of basic societal values.

Sure, but per the documents, one of the sex traffickers and child rapists was the administration’s political opponent and predecessor, so the two are intertwined. And that’s before you get to the whole collection of other perpetrators.

I don’t find any of it excusable. Garland is just irredeemable and is only marginally salvaged by the fact that Bondi was his successor (and who was Florida’s AG during the 2010’s and should’ve dealt with the issue then).
 

Gary Patterson

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I saw this the other day. It's a list of people who knew about Epstein.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J50ZXc11AL4


I'm not 100% convinced, because there's a difference between me knowing something and me being able to know something, if I think to ask the right question. Perhaps they all should have known, if they didn't directly know. That said, I think there are a lot of people who should be explaining on the record if they knew anything, and if so, why they didn't do anything.

But then I remember that these are powerful men in the US, and realise my mistake. A serious government would call an inquiry and have every one of these people testify under oath in front of the senate. A serious government would want to know exactly how far the rot spread and root it out once and for all.
 

karolus

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Sure, but per the documents, one of the sex traffickers and child rapists was the administration’s political opponent and predecessor, so the two are intertwined. And that’s before you get to the whole collection of other perpetrators.

I don’t find any of it excusable. Garland is just irredeemable and is only marginally salvaged by the fact that Bondi was his successor (and who was Florida’s AG during the 2010’s and should’ve dealt with the issue then).
It's becoming more apparent that the operation was a honeypot with apparent nation state involvement. Not to excuse him in the least, but Epstein was likely a highly compromised front to do the bidding of more powerful figures behind the scenes. There are probably numerous powerful people wrapped up in that web that are/were putting heavy pressure on whoever they can to keep things under wraps. Some of these people are well known and in the open for anyone bothering to pay attention.

If and when the full details are released, this sordid affair will be staining more than many would like to admit or acknowledge. It is a damning and expected indictment of the human condition.
 
It's becoming more apparent that the operation was a honeypot with apparent nation state involvement. Not to excuse him in the least, but Epstein was likely a highly compromised front to do the bidding of more powerful figures behind the scenes.
I don't think there's any support for that notion, just a lot of people who desperately want it to be so.
 
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I don’t find any of it excusable. Garland is just irredeemable and is only marginally salvaged by the fact that Bondi was his successor (and who was Florida’s AG during the 2010’s and should’ve dealt with the issue then).
My personal opinion is that Bondi is almost certainly an accomplice, and that she’s behaving as she is not just in service of Trump, but also in service of herself.
 
I don't think there's any support for that notion, just a lot of people who desperately want it to be so.
The Prime Minister of Poland, Tusk, thinks there's enough smoke to investigate whether there's any fire.

Poland to probe possible links between Epstein and Russia, PM Tusk says

Poland will launch an investigation into possible links between the late sex offender Jeffrey Epstein and Russian intelligence, as well as any impact on Poland, Prime Minister Donald Tusk said on Tuesday.
...
Tusk told a government meeting that authorities would establish a team to investigate any potential fallout in Poland from Epstein's crimes, in particular in relation to what he said was possible involvement by Russian secret services.
...
"More and more leads, more and more information, and more and more commentary in the global press all relate to the suspicion that this unprecedented paedophilia scandal was co-organised by Russian intelligence services," Tusk said.

"I don't need to tell you how serious the increasingly likely possibility that Russian intelligence services co-organised this operation is for the security of the Polish state. This can only mean that they also possess compromising materials against many leaders still active today."

More

Epstein could have been introduced to espionage through the late disgraced media tycoon Robert Maxwell, father of his girlfriend, Ghislaine.

Maxwell, a former British politician and newspaper owner, reportedly worked as a Soviet asset in the 1970s
...
He is suspected of laundering money from Russia to the West with the help of Epstein in return, the sources said.

Maxwell’s 1991 death — when his body was found floating in the Atlantic Ocean after he went missing from his yacht, the Lady Ghislaine — has long been the subject of conspiracy theories.
 

llanitedave

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My personal opinion is that Bondi is almost certainly an accomplice, and that she’s behaving as she is not just in service of Trump, but also in service of herself.
I agree with all you said, except I'd omit the "almost". Even if she wasn't quite an accomplice years ago, in this administration she has made herself one.
 

Lt_Storm

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I'm still waiting for any press or public figure to ask why Garland and associates sat on this shit for four goddamn years. Bad enough they wasted time completely failing the insurrection, immunity, ballot, and classified info cases, but they knew how bad these allegations were and did even less to follow up utterly vile shit directly tied to so many figures buying politics today.
Likely because they didn't want to piss off every single member of the jet set billionaire social calendar. I mean, if you are rich and powerful enough, Epstein was the person who knows the person who can fix your problem and was happy to put you in touch with them. This means that he also knew what everyone's problems were. So nobody in that group particularly wants people looking into all that. Even people whose problems were of the legal and relatively mundane sort, that's still a lot of mundane dirty laundry that they don't want on the from page of the National Inquirer.

End result: if you talk about what Epstein was up to, everyone in the billionaire social club gets mad at you, even those who were uninvolved in his human trafficking schemes and broke no laws would likely still have reason to prefer all that remains buried. And, of course, since he's dead, it's easy enough to decide to let sleeping dogs lie.
 

Lt_Storm

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It's becoming more apparent that the operation was a honeypot with apparent nation state involvement. Not to excuse him in the least, but Epstein was likely a highly compromised front to do the bidding of more powerful figures behind the scenes. There are probably numerous powerful people wrapped up in that web that are/were putting heavy pressure on whoever they can to keep things under wraps. Some of these people are well known and in the open for anyone bothering to pay attention.

If and when the full details are released, this sordid affair will be staining more than many would like to admit or acknowledge. It is a damning and expected indictment of the human condition.
And this is the kind of conclusion that tries to connect too many things to a single actor, which is to say it's a conspiracy theory. There's no secret hand controlling all the rich people and preventing them from coming clean. Just individual people acting a according to their own individual motives and reasoning.

As much as this seems to be a bunch of malfunctions in the Bavarian Illuminati's mind control satellites, the reality is that the Illuminati doesn't exist and this is mostly driven by a desire to not have their dirty laundry aired publicly. Sometimes that's because such an airing would cause criminal liability, but, just as often, it's just because that would be embarrassing.
 
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karolus

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And this is the kind of conclusion that tries to connect too many things to a single actor, which is to say it's a conspiracy theory. There's no secret hand controlling all the rich people and preventing them from coming clean. Just individual people acting a according to their own individual motives and reasoning.

As much as this seems to be a bunch of malfunctions in the Bavarian Illuminati's mind control satellites, the reality is that the Illuminati doesn't exist and this is mostly driven by a desire to not have their dirty laundry aired publicly. Sometimes that's because such an airing would cause criminal liability, but, just as often, it's just because that would be embarrassing.

Um, see this:

The Prime Minister of Poland, Tusk, thinks there's enough smoke to investigate whether there's any fire.

Poland to probe possible links between Epstein and Russia, PM Tusk says



More

So, do you think the Prime Minister of Poland believes in the Illuminati?
 

wrylachlan

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And this is the kind of conclusion that tries to connect too many things to a single actor, which is to say it's a conspiracy theory. There's no secret hand controlling all the rich people and preventing them from coming clean. Just individual people acting an according to their own individual motives and reasoning.
I mean… both can be true. Most people are their own personal kind of shitty AND from time to time Russia gave a little nudge for their own purposes. I don’t think anyone is claiming sort of clear operational control like the whole thing was a well-planned op with a command center in Moscow. That seems vanishingly unlikely. But Russia stirring the pot from time to time and using it to their own advantage seems incredibly plausible and worth looking into.
 

Alexander

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"The lease on that moral high ground has run out"

China rings in on the Epstein Files and the supposed moral authority of the West:

The Epstein Archive is not just one file on just one criminal. It is a CT scan of the whole system. The courts, the banks, the politicians, even some academic institutions. Not evil in some movie sense, silent partners in real world sense, silent through doing nothing, though convenient forgetfulness, through the quiet belief that some men are too powerful to ever be brought down.
And yet these same institutions continue to grade the rest of the world on human rights, continue to issue report cards on judicial reform, continue to act as though they were the world's moral judge.
That lease on that high ground has run out. It ran out in a Florida courthouse in 2008. It ran out on a Caribbean island with a Harvard professor as a guest. It ran out this month, on live television, when a victim had to watch her abuser's name blacked out while her own name stayed in plain sight.
The Western elites wanted to be judged by their good intentions. Unfortunately for them, the Epstein files contain only the facts.

(Wang Guan on CGTN's First Voice)



View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJpIrDZn6bk
 

Shavano

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Sure, but per the documents, one of the sex traffickers and child rapists was the administration’s political opponent and predecessor, so the two are intertwined. And that’s before you get to the whole collection of other perpetrators.

I don’t find any of it excusable. Garland is just irredeemable and is only marginally salvaged by the fact that Bondi was his successor (and who was Florida’s AG during the 2010’s and should’ve dealt with the issue then).
Now you get to see what happens when you are afraid to confront evil because it's in your political opponent.
 

Shavano

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My personal opinion is that Bondi is almost certainly an accomplice, and that she’s behaving as she is not just in service of Trump, but also in service of herself.
She's an accessory after the fact and full participant in the coverup.

She did it all for political and probably financial advantage.

When and if justice is served, she'll spend decades in prison.
 

Soriak

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Quick google search for escorts in New York City shows on just one page (top result on Google) 600 available today, with 140 "visiting." Anything from 18 year old freelancers to pornstars. Many of them seem to be part of agencies, which presumably communicate exactly as Epstein did. Basically, this is the public version of what Epstein was running, available to anyone with a few thousand dollars to burn on a fun night out. Illegal in the US, but also prevalent and completely obvious when you see it and clearly not enforced, given how easily it is to find online.

I'm sure people weren't surprised that Epstein paid for sex and set up people for such arrangements on both sides of the transaction. That's not the same as knowing about his underage victims. And even if the public doesn't care about the distinction, prosecutors obviously do need to care.
 
"The lease on that moral high ground has run out"

China rings in on the Epstein Files and the supposed moral authority of the West:
That's not the flex China thinks it is.

If the brother of Xi had been visiting Epstein's island, and it was reported to the South China Morning Post, Xi's brother would not be the one to go to trial.
 
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LTParis

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When and if justice is served, she'll spend decades in prison.
I admire your enthusiasm. Unless the Dems have super majorities for years to come this will not happen.

We didn't get it right with the confederates inviting them back into the fold unscathed
We didn't get it right with the civil rights era not vigorously prosecuting our own systemic racism that exists today
We didn't get it right with the Great Recession with those that robbed americans for billions.
Etc...

We simply do not administer justice. We coddle, we provide shelter to those harming the nation. We likely will never s a Nuremberg v2.
 

llanitedave

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That's not the flex China thinks it is.

If the brother of Xi had been visiting Epstein's island, and it was reported to the South China Morning Post, Xi's brother would not be the one to go to trial.
Pretty much this. The Chinese authoritarians are cackling with glee because the American political system is on track to become just like them.
 
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Lt_Storm

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Um, see this:



So, do you think the Prime Minister of Poland believes in the Illuminati?
We know where Epstein got his first few million, it was from Les Wexner, apparently Victoria's secret was how she made Jeff Epstein rich. And we know how he got most of the rest of it too, no need for some squirrelly deal with the Russians. He was a thief, blackmailer, slave trader, and fixer.

I mean… both can be true. Most people are their own personal kind of shitty AND from time to time Russia gave a little nudge for their own purposes. I don’t think anyone is claiming sort of clear operational control like the whole thing was a well-planned op with a command center in Moscow. That seems vanishingly unlikely. But Russia stirring the pot from time to time and using it to their own advantage seems incredibly plausible and worth looking into.

I would argue that saying a "highly compromised front" is claiming fairly clear personal control. After all, that's what's a front is, a well planned op with clear control from whoever set it up. A front that doesn't do what you tell him is no front at all.

Now, Russian special forces interaction with Epstein and offering to pay him for information sounds exactly like the kind of thing that might happen. Hell, for a fixer, knowing Russian special forces might help you get things done. But that doesn't mean Russia was pulling all the strings.