Domestic consequences of the 2024 US presidential election: the quickening
- Thread starter Scotttheking
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I don’t think there’s anything contradictory in saying, essentially: if it is a threat to democracy actually treat it like that, and if not then focus on kitchen table issues.
I am extremely confused by Democratic elected officials who campaigned on the threat to democracy talking points and are not currently looking at every single loophole and technicality. Maybe they are, behind the scenes, and we just don’t see it yet? Maybe we never will? I don’t know.
If Trump is as bad as they say, aren’t these folks, like, first in line for politically motivated prosecutions?
Before this election I might have agreed with you. Not that people are or aren't morons, but I gravely underestimated the ability for otherwise sensible people to attach fault to seemingly random peoples or causes. Indeed "moron" is insufficient, this is madness, irrational pattern seeking mentalities, easily hijacked by even the most basic of regressive content algorithms.
The same can be said of contracts, financial, and STEM topics. Often the real meat is buried in the fine print. In this case, it's Project 2025. Hope these voters at least gave a glance at the fine print before accepting the terms of service (voting GOP). They are now in a binding contract that will be extremely difficult to get out of.
Dr. Oz for medicaid, Linda McMahon for education. He really is just picking cronies and people he's seen on TV, huh?
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c8rl8knmg8eo
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c8rl8knmg8eo
I don’t think it’s that confusing. People are notoriously bad at long term risk management, even with things that they know and affect them directly. To acknowledge how bad it is is to recognize how powerless you are, and for most people that just leads to despair. I don’t think politicians are special, or uniquely capable of navigating that any more than the average person. For them to go harder, they’d have to be willing to fight a losing battle, and if that were the case, we wouldn’t be in this situation.
I want to stress, if people cared about the details, if the loopholes or technicalities mattered, we wouldn’t be in this situation.
I've always suspected rather cynically that the mainstream dems would immediately flee on private jets if a right-wing coup happened.
I think they think they're going to be sheltered from it. How much of that's from being gaslit by your colleagues (who tried to get you lynched) and how many concrete reasons to think so is debatable.
We're talking about the party that gave us Joe Biden who gave us "Fuck BLM, cops ball"+"Participation Trophy Justice" AG Garland. If they were more shy or more competent about that, we probably wouldn't be sitting here.
Hard disagree here. The last election is absolutely proof that messaging alone works for winning elections. You create a problem in people's heads, like trans people are taping cis women in bathrooms or doctors are just handing out hormones like candy on Halloween, and then you just campaign against the horrible thing that isn't happening. In Texas I unfortunately know multiple people that believe blue states regularly just murder babies. Just take a baby that's been born and kill it with a metal claw designed by jigsaw. Ads in Texas were basically run everyday with one of those themes.
Yes, but I also think they realize Trump has the attention span of a fruit fly, is very transactional, and those officials still have an over reliance on institutions to mitigate/save them. Hence, you get things like Biden taking chummy photo ops with Trump and trying to do the responsible hand over process, even though he may be handing the keys over to someone who may never give them back to anyone. It's the political version of "the leopards won't eat my face (if I'm nice to them now)".
A hate filled, vengeful movement needs targets to justify their actions and while there's no shortage of them that they can fabricate, it's also probably a mistake to just think they're not going to actually do the things they said they would.
To be perfectly fair, why should the Democrat politicians suffer over 50%+ of voters’ bad decisions? They tried, but facts, empathy and sane government was soundly rejected by voters.
After all this isn’t a coup, this is just the will of the people.
This election was also a special situation. There were actions included with that messing in people's minds—Trump's first term, as well as the general misconception that Republicans do better with the economy.
It's true the GOP has been hammering on LGBTQ issues for some time—so much so that progressive people I know have been repeating some of the misinformation, but exit polling didn't list this as a major factor. "Illegal immigration" and "the economy" were the chief concerns. Don't get me wrong—it's awful that a marginalized group is getting harmed for political points.
If the GOP had been running a candidate other than Trump, the case could be made that messaging alone works, but even then it would be weak. Incumbents running for reelection during a perceived period of a bad economy are on the back foot. Ask Carter, Bush (elder), and Biden/Harris. Any passable GOP candidate would have had this situation as a headwind to build from.
Unfortunately, the policies that could get enacted by the Trump Administration will make the domestic consequences worse for those who voted them in chiefly for economic reasons.
Is it really the will of the people if they've been on the receiving end of decades of misinformation and propaganda? It's obvious that the policies of the incoming administration are not popular with a huge proportion of their voters.
That's a difficult question, especially given the declining state of education in America. Most of us here on the Ars fora make an effort to stay informed and boost our knowledge. But self-improvement takes effort and introspection that a good part of the populace isn't willing to exert. Caveat emptor does factor in to some degree.
I don't think that holds up as an explanation. Conservative non-white people switching to vote for the conservative party isn't caused by misinformation. That's voters gaining a better understanding of which party they agree with and voting accordingly.
There is that. Informed consent is the only true consent in other matters. I suppose we could extrapolate to this one. Sigh, doesn't change the results though.
Ideally wages would go up, but these are the same people who oppose minimum wage increases because they don't want blanket wage increases since it will mostly help those they don't like. They want help that is targeted to those who REALLY deserve it (which includes them).
Not surprising, but if anyone is a Fed, I hope they remember where their office is because it's pretty evident Trump and Co. plan on forcing a return to office. Of course the goal isn't to get people to work, because they're already doing that. The goal is to get people to quit. Especially if your office gets relocated to West Bumfuck, TX.
I'm not sure the problem is they "believe" (as in, would go to God affirming that they did in fact think Seattle was a wasteland, etc) because I have pinned a few down between two contradicting arguments and they have happily discarded the nonsense belief and chortled: "SILLY LIBRUL YOU THOUGHT I WAS SERIOUS?"
I think they've weaponized "belief" and social dynamics against the nominally learned of social science. It's an "Anti-social sociality." (Being ASS, lol)
Spread the lie and perform cruelty that the rest of the "team" does, and you display solidarity and energize fellow travellers realizing they're not alone. It enforces a certain level of operational discipline too. The more ridiculous and bizarre the ritual, the better to determine commitment when organizing as well. I challenge anyone to justify the diaper Trumpers otherwise?
The chant can be "gulag the kulaks," "kill the heretics," "gas the jews," or "exterminate the socialists", "crucify any trans people." But the important bit is that: they're not alone in chanting.
Our society encouraged atomization. The trump train is the first one with people on it. Why wouldn't you get on?
What blows my mind is how poorly he did as president and more people said "hey that's some energy I like."
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Quite a few Democrats voted for those wars, so seems like fair game basically. Of course there’s been a little bit of turnover since then.
Although I don’t have the option to telework I’m definitely concerned about the broad impacts to the federal workforce with everything else they've been spouting. DOGE is obviously going to run into any number of hurdles if they take the ham-fisted approach. Telework allowances are part of existing collective bargaining agreements for most federal workers, so rescinding telework is not as simple as Ramaswamy would like to think it is, of course.
Relocating / shutting down offices is different and certainly an option. Although I’m not sure how quickly that starts wading into the domain of appropriations and redirection/reorganization of funds, which would normally require congressional approval. Depends on how willing Congress is to play dead and let DOGE and the Executive give them the runaround.
Congress itself could either be DOGE's largest roadblock or largest co-conspirator. Sadly, at the moment, I'm leaning towards the latter.
Honestly, I think forcing full RTO in the major urban centers would be far worse, but then I'm one of the little people that has to drive a route that eats 2-3x the time required during rush hour conditions rather than a billionaire with my own jet.
I don't believe people were as authentically concerned about immigrants or the economy as they said in exit polls, I think those were excuses (and also pollsters frame questions in a way that participants will trend towards whatever they believe is popular, humans are basically herd animals). I don't know any GOP voter (and I do know some unfortunately) that believed the economy was bad or that immigrants were a particular threat. These are younger people that do not watch Fox news. They do not believe women are being killed for miscarrying and they think trans people are either a fetish or were turned by some combination of FDA approved products (at the behest of the liberal globalists). It's just dumb Nazi shit, but because the media was pretty cool leaving it unexamined, the right wing fringe was able to launder a lot of fucked up crazy into a lot of fucked up brains. Do they think Trump will magic the economy and make everyone millionaires? Sure, probably, their worldview is cooked, well done, brain carbonized to the point it is indistinguishable from chopped streak broiled at 500 degrees for 45 minutes. But when talking to me, and me mentioning the economy has been pretty good and inflation is down, they're like, "Yeah, but did you see that boy wrestle that girl? We can't have that," or "We really need more babies and we need stop women from murdering them." Its possible they're lying to me, and God I wish they were because then at least they'd just have a very dim view of me and a basic misunderstanding of how tariffs work, but I don't think they are.
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General superstition is up. Surveys are showing an uptick in belief in stuff like fairies and spirits, crystal and luck charm sales are up, the Catholic Church can't keep pace with the demand for exorcisms, New Age / Neo-Pagan / magick earth-woo religions are experiencing interest they've not seen since the 70s.
The world is out of control. Times are uncertain. Our economic system has failed. (Or failed successfully.) The political class and the system that empowers them are disallowed from identifying problems, fuck solving them. In times of great upheaval, humans consistently fall into the Spinozan trap, simplifying complex or unknown pain points into just-so answers and comfortable solutions that absolve them of responsibility, giving them discrete (relatively) pain-free personal behaviors, and returning that perception of control that keeps your average joe from losing it. No wonder they vote for the party that offers simple (partially incorrect) explanations for problems and (facile, equally incorrect) solutions that make them feel good.
Tangentially, FDR was a fluke. Almost every other time, the status quo would rather a totalitarian break everything tomorrow if it means they can avoid socialism today.
To the old saying "Bread and Circuses" we should add "The Other" as we need to always remember who caused the decline in bread and circuses. Makes no difference which other you choose. people need this trifecta to feel like they are winners.
Of course it will. But the party in power still tends to get held responsible when voters feel pain.
Rage spinning machines are useful. How do you think Trump won?
Remember all that political wrangling over who was going to be the next Speaker and how it didn't cost Republicans control of the House and how they've got the Senate and the White House too come January? Remember that political wrangling over the immigration bill?
Voters don't hate political wrangling. Those that follow politics cheer it on and those that don't aren't even aware it's happening.
Gallup says otherwise. Currently, public approval of Congress hangs around 16%. There has been a concerted effort by entities on the right to create a logjam there for quite some time. Nancy McLean covers this in Democracy in Chains. Some objectives are to sow public cynicism, entrench polices that support the moneyed interests, and tilt public support toward a unitary executive. Having an ineffectual legislature means less checks on executive power.
Fuck Gallop. I don't approve of them. Public approval of Congress isn't on the ballot. No matter how much Gallup finds the public "doesn't approve" of Congress, they keep electing mostly the same people over and over in most districts. Disapproval that doesn't manifest as voting for people that better represent what they want doesn't matter, and most voters vote without actually knowing what Congress has been doing and offer those dire opinions on the basis of what exactly? Something they heard from a co worker? An angry post on social media?
Until people take an interest in what Congress is doing, you could wipe your butt with their opinions and they'd never know, let alone care what Congress gets up to.
It's not a secret though. It's right there for anybody to see if they can look away from social media or sports or porn or whatever it is that keeps them so busy for a few minutes ever month.
Until people take an interest in what Congress is doing, you could wipe your butt with their opinions and they'd never know, let alone care what Congress gets up to.
It's not a secret though. It's right there for anybody to see if they can look away from social media or sports or porn or whatever it is that keeps them so busy for a few minutes ever month.
Time to get this book off the shelf and re-read it.
Rage spinning ass propaganda is different than rage spinning as analysis.
But, it needs to be consistent. One week, Stewart will rage spin against Republicans (this week).
Last week He rage spun against Democrats. Stewart Is there to entertain. He‘s only an ally some of the time. That does not get you many votes. But what it does get is clips of him hammering Democrats on right wing social media.
Don’t listen to him to understand the current political climate. He’s not being serious or fair if not being so will get him some yucks. At most, he‘s a sideshow.
Adam Conovor said what we’re (mostly the liberals) are experiencing is akin to grief. Jon Stewart is one of the few personalities on TV who I feel like genuinely loves his country and wants to see the best for everyone.
This election hit hard. What we’re seeing is a man live on TV going through the whole process of grief. We’re doing it here on Ars. Some have called for violence. One wanted to throw paintballs in Trump properties. Others want to leave. This is a shitty election result.
The difference is the edict at The Daily Show is to somehow filter all that grief with a friendly face.
We don’t really know what Jon Stewart really thinks. What we need is Jon Stewart’s anger translator and perhaps the cathartic release so many of us still need.
Right now it feels we’re still either in denial or bargaining, and maybe anger. The Daily Show I doubt is allowed to be angry. That’s the exclusive domain of Fox News Entertainment.
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Surprisingly quiet from the Asian community in regards to mass deportations this time around. Haven't heard a peep from any of them, groups or individuals. So I asked my friend (Cambodian) and he put it very succinctly: "We aren't brown. They aren't going to waste time on Asians"
Some Texas asshole offered like a thousand acres in the valley to Trump for deportation camps. I doubt they are gonna sweep through the Vietnamese communities in Houston. 110% this is a get rid of Mexicans. Asians are probably best to keep quiet and not make too much noise.
And personally, I think I know more Asians that came to visit family they have here in Southern California and just never left than I do any of those sneaky Mexicans that murder/drug deal their way across the border to make our unborn babies have abortions in Satans name.
Or whatever Fox news says Mexicans do.
Some Texas asshole offered like a thousand acres in the valley to Trump for deportation camps. I doubt they are gonna sweep through the Vietnamese communities in Houston. 110% this is a get rid of Mexicans. Asians are probably best to keep quiet and not make too much noise.
And personally, I think I know more Asians that came to visit family they have here in Southern California and just never left than I do any of those sneaky Mexicans that murder/drug deal their way across the border to make our unborn babies have abortions in Satans name.
Or whatever Fox news says Mexicans do.
That acreage in Texas was bought by the county back in October and it was the county that offered it to trump. The former owner wouldn't allow the state build a wall there.