New research shows gas stove emissions contribute to 19,000 deaths annually

California is considering a law that would require warning labels on gas stoves.

See full article...

 

[pojo]

I’m pretty sure slapping a “this is known by the state of California to cause …” sticker on the stoves is going to do absolutely nothing. It’s already a joke that those stickers come on everything. Why not do what New York did?

 

[BananaWarrior]

At least replace with induction if you're gonna switch.

 

[SVD_NL]

This is not just gas stoves, any kind of indoor cooking releases a bunch of pollutants, especially fine particulates. Gas stoves are just much worse for NO2.
Another issue, a lot of extraction hoods recirculate the air instead of moving it outside, often removing smells and some particulates, but not solving the NO2 and CO issues at all.
Interesting recent research from TNO on the subject matter:
https://www.tno.nl/en/newsroom/2023/11/cooking-nitrogen-dioxide/ (full report available for download at the bottom of the page)

 

[panton41]

This is not just gas stoves, any kind of indoor cooking releases a bunch of pollutants, especially fine particulates.

Remember, the smoke alarm is not the dinner bell.

 

[Auie]

Enlarge / A group of Stanford researchers collect data on nitrogen dioxide pollution from gas and propane stoves in a test kitchen.

The air conditioner being used as ventilation in that setup must get so very greasy.

 

[ElCameron]

This is not just gas stoves, any kind of indoor cooking releases a bunch of pollutants, especially fine particulates. Gas stoves are just much worse for NO2.
Another issue, a lot of extraction hoods recirculate the air instead of moving it outside, often removing smells and some particulates, but not solving the NO2 and CO issues at all.
Interesting recent research from TNO on the subject matter:
https://www.tno.nl/en/newsroom/2023/11/cooking-nitrogen-dioxide/ (full report available for download at the bottom of the page)

Gas stoves have required exterior venting for a long time. Recirculating vents are only allowed with electric cooking. (If your area doesn’t it is far behind in adopting model building codes. Also, this is why we need a national building code.)

But to the point of this article, building codes have already recognized the dangers of gas stoves.

 

[yippiekayakotherbuckets]

Remember, the smoke alarm is not the dinner bell.

Not with that attitude it isn’t.

 

[SVD_NL]

Gas stoves have required exterior venting for a long time. Recirculating vents are only allowed with electric cooking. (If your area doesn’t it is far behind in adopting model building codes. Also, this is why we need a national building code.)

But to the point of this article, building codes have already recognized the dangers of gas stoves.

Building codes are not universal across the world, so in some places it may still be an issue.
And as the research mentions, recirculating hoods are still a problem for electric cooking due to the filtering capabilities not being sufficient to keep the levels of some of the measurements below WHO standards.

 

[Rbrian]

My house is tiny, even by UK standards. Last year I had my gas supply cut off, and now only use electricity. Replacing my gas central heating and water heating was tricky, requiring several different ideas. Lots of cable had to be run inside walls and in the loft, but running a fat cable to the stove to run an induction hob was a step too far. It would have to cross the bathroom, and there’s no easy route, so would have had to be in visible trunking.

What I did instead was buy a cheap induction hob, rated to just 3.2kW*, only allowing two of the four burners to be run at a time, keeping it within the rating of the existing cable, which feeds a double socket powering my electric oven and the sparkers for my old gas hob. Being limited to 3kW is absolutely fine, as I never need more than two burners, and if I wanted to run a big cable I could shift a jumper and unlock all four burners at 6.4kW. I previously mentioned my house was tiny, as is the kitchen, with no appreciable worktop. That’s why it looks untidy, and I’ll never use the other burners!

*in the UK, all circuits are ~240V, it might be more complicated in the US.

 

[zachawry]

Unfortunately California has already trained people to completely ignore their safety warnings.

 

[anurodhp]

Regarding the warning label. California can set warnings are the original cookie banner. When was the last time it prevented you from using a product? It may be legitimate now but those warnings are so spammed we all ignore them

 

[sep332]

That 19,000 number is in the USA alone, not globally. That's a lot higher than I expected.

 

[YetAnotherPoster]

Regarding the warning label. California can set warnings are the original cookie banner. When was the last time it prevented you from using a product? It may be legitimate now but those warnings are so spammed we all ignore them

Try the Consent-O-Matic addon for Chrome, Firefox, and Firefox Android. It automatically replies no to most cookie banners in a few seconds, including those banners which list a few hundred advertising partners.

 

[The Lurker Beneath]

Remember, the smoke alarm is not the dinner bell.

When I make toast, it often is!

 

[ConfusedBystander]

"Just running a stove for a few minutes with poor ventilation can lead to indoor concentrations of nitrogen dioxide that exceed the EPA’s air standard for outdoors,”

Rather than the easily-ignored label, how about requiring landlords to adequately ventilate kitchen areas containing gas stoves? This video implies that emissions from stoves are mostly a problem in apartments.


View: https://youtu.be/CcAJ3_-Hou8?si=HBe62HtpSNVxdnyl

 

[ColdWetDog]

I knew it. I knew that lessons learned in college would follow me the rest of my life.

I just cook in the microwave.

 

[ColdWetDog]

Rather than the easily-ignored label, how about requiring landlords to adequately ventilate kitchen areas containing gas stoves? This video implies that emissions from stoves are mostly a problem in apartments.


View: https://youtu.be/CcAJ3_-Hou8?si=HBe62HtpSNVxdnyl

'Adequately ventilating' many buildings would essentially require a rebuild. That was a major issue noted in the pandemic. Yes, you can (and should) update building codes to reflect modern research but absent a whole bunch of money from somewhere, retrofitting isn't going to happen.

 

[redleader]

On Monday, lawmakers in the California Assembly advanced a bill that would require any gas stoves sold in the state to bear a warning label indicating that stoves and ovens in use “can release nitrogen dioxide, carbon monoxide, and benzene inside homes at rates that lead to concentrations exceeding the standards of the Office of Environmental Health Hazard Assessment and the United States Environmental Protection Agency for outdoor air quality.”

Seems like a good idea. My parents have a nice hood above their burners but almost never use it even when cooking on multiple burners because "the house doesn't get smoky from cooking". A warning label pointing out that burning gas is really bad to breathe even if you can't see it would probably encourage people to use their ranges more safely.

 

[ricardoRI]

Gas stoves have required exterior venting for a long time. Recirculating vents are only allowed with electric cooking. (If your area doesn’t it is far behind in adopting model building codes. Also, this is why we need a national building code.)

But to the point of this article, building codes have already recognized the dangers of gas stoves.

I wish that was true about external ventilation requirement for gas stoves. I have been in dozens, maybe hundreds of houses without external ventilation. Recirculating noise machines yes, exhaust no.

When rebuilding two old houses, I had to go to extreme lengths to get viable external exhaust ventilation working. Most contractors and big box stores don’t even have them.

I finally went with a commercial stove ventilation system which cost thousands of dollars.

 

[callumshell1]

My brother refuses to use the extractor fan above his gas hobs for some reason and it drives me up the wall. So many people have no idea just how harmful it can be over a long timeframe to not to use it.

 

[Midnitte]

'Adequately ventilating' many buildings would essentially require a rebuild. That was a major issue noted in the pandemic. Yes, you can (and should) update building codes to reflect modern research but absent a whole bunch of money from somewhere, retrofitting isn't going to happen.

If the cost of remodeling is so high, it's very likely to just lead landlords to switch to electric, which... is kind of a good outcome - considering climate change.

 

[1972foreva]

Gas stoves have required exterior venting for a long time. Recirculating vents are only allowed with electric cooking. (If your area doesn’t it is far behind in adopting model building codes. Also, this is why we need a national building code.)

But to the point of this article, building codes have already recognized the dangers of gas stoves.

I was shocked to learn gas stoves don't require exterior ventilation in most of the USA

 

[ElectricWatusi]

I was an “electric neverer” until I was introduced to a $6000 Thermador Freedom induction cooktop. Mind you, I did not buy that.

But for not a lot of money zoneless or sorta zoneless induction cooktops exist and induction is just magical.

All this noise about “when I flip my flapjacks there is no heat” is just that, noise. No reason to cook like it is 1890.

I will point out to the open source aficionados, the Freedom runs Linux.

 

[mobby_6kl]

I think about it too. One big problem at least in my country it will put heavy load at power line and our power plant.

One immediate solution albeit higher cost are put battery (5-10 kwh) at house for buffer and make it better with control unit that can recieve solar cell.

With this buffer, everyone happy including power plant operator

Is this really a problem? Don't you already have electric stoves? They've been a thing for decades and for example nobody I personally know uses gas, mostly the resistive glass-ceramic stoves. Replacing them with induction would only lower energy demand.

Obviously if everyone's still on gas, this would be net new demand for electricity, but in practice I doubt it's all that much. An induction stove would pull what, like 2-3kW peak, and way less on average since you only usually need max power for a very short duration. Considering the improvements in lightning, TVs and other appliances, I really doubt this would be a massive problem.

Try the Consent-O-Matic addon for Chrome, Firefox, and Firefox Android. It automatically replies no to most cookie banners in a few seconds, including those banners which list a few hundred advertising partners.

This (and ublock or sponsorblock) sadly doesn't work IRL

 

[numerobis]

Rather than the easily-ignored label, how about requiring landlords to adequately ventilate kitchen areas containing gas stoves? This video implies that emissions from stoves are mostly a problem in apartments.


View: https://youtu.be/CcAJ3_-Hou8?si=HBe62HtpSNVxdnyl

Seems more likely to succeed if we just banned gas stoves in new construction.

Requiring landlords to do X tends to lead to landlords adding one more rule to the list of rules they’re ignoring in their shitty apartments.

 

[Nocebo]

It isn't all or nothing.

When research was announced showing indoor air pollution from stoves (even when turned off, as in cited in the article), I went out and replaced my gas stovetop with induction. I've got a wife with asthma, young kids, and I didn't want to increase the risk for them. For me, it was Ars reporting that moved me to take action (THANKS ARS!).

Do the labels fix the problem 100%? No. Does it educate and raise awareness, thereby moving the needle for some people? Yes. Is that worth the effort? YES.

You don't need this to be a perfect solution for it to have benefit to society.

 

[DrewW]

At least replace with induction if you're gonna switch.

There are two easy ways to try induction: lots of libraries in the Northeast let you check them out, and Ikea actually sells a really great single induction burner for $60.

I’m trying the single burner this summer. But I’m in no hurry because I have an absurd vent that pushes almost as much air outside as a turboprop.

Edit for link

 

[ArsLongaVitaBrevis_4321]

It’s mind-blowing to me the number of a apartments, and even single-family homes, that I’ve visited (in the northeast USA) that lack ANY ventilation in the kitchen area. At a guess, I’d say that it’s more than 80% of them. And that includes relatively new construction buildings! Ironically, virtually all of those homes DO have ventilation in the rooms with a bathtub or shower. So it seems like building codes CAN work, IF the desired outcome (ventilating stove fumes & gasses to the outside) is actually part of said building code…

And don’t get me started on those aweful recirculating ‘vent’ hoods. Which, even when the filters aren’t clogged, don’t keep the kitchen environment healthy. Well actually they DO have one pollution-related effect: they typically greatly INCREASE the noise pollution level in the kitchen area, grr!

Sad me is now living in an apartment with an unventilated gas stove/oven. Good thing that I’m not a ‘foodie’ as I rarely dare to run the stove. And only use the gas oven slightly more frequently.
My electric toaster oven, and microwave do get frequently used. But I’d still like to have positive ventilation even for them; including a ‘makeup air’ supply. Sigh.

 

[DrewW]

Damn double post. Must be the NO2 getting me already.

Edit for duplication

 

[Green RT]

I have a gas stove. But I live in a moderate climate and the kitchen is located off a patio with a door that is never closed. The kitchen is tiny and with the door that is always open, it is really well ventilated. And of course none of the gas gets to the rest of the house at all. I have to go outdoors to go from anywhere to the kitchen. Same for the bedrooms. They are located off patios and require going through an open patio to get to them. It is only a problem when it is raining. Fortunately rain only happens here for about 4 months out of the year and when it does it is usually just for a hour or so. The house is over 100 years old and the floor plan is common in old houses in Mexico.

 

[IncorrigibleTroll]

So one thing I’m confused about wrt the hullabaloo around gas stoves: everything seems to focus on natgas. Do the same concerns also apply to propane? That’s been unclear as most coverage either specifies natgas or does not identify the fuel.

 

[adamsc]

Gas stoves have required exterior venting for a long time. Recirculating vents are only allowed with electric cooking. (If your area doesn’t it is far behind in adopting model building codes. Also, this is why we need a national building code.)

But to the point of this article, building codes have already recognized the dangers of gas stoves.

I noticed that they mentioned the racial disparities, which appears to be a corollary for affluence, and I think that’s the deeper problem here: building codes only matter if there’s enforcement and a ton of poor people live in housing which is nowhere near code and whose owners aren’t going to spend extra money unless forced. I’m not sure a warning label is going to help because a lot of people don’t have much room to turn down a place due to an unsafe kitchen.

I’d really like to live in the alternate universe where our reaction to the pandemic included more focus on improving indoor air quality but sadly that is not the country we live in. I’d like to see it change but I kinda fear that any attempt to do so will be met by some dude bring his Weber grill inside so he can cook with Freedom Fuel or SCOTUS ruling on behalf of some slumlord that safety codes are unconstitutional.

 

[neil_w]

Maybe I've missed it but I don't recall seeing yet how well good exterior venting mitigates the problem. 100%? 50%? I mean, even when using our vent (which is always when the stove or oven are running), the smell of the cooking still spreads through the house. And if there are emissions while the stove is off then obviously the fan won't help that at all.

 

[adamsc]

So one thing I’m confused about wrt the hullabaloo around gas stoves: everything seems to focus on natgas. Do the same concerns also apply to propane? That’s been unclear as most coverage either specifies natgas or does not identify the fuel.

Yes. This study mentions specifically that they measured propane because previous studies had not. It appears to be slightly better than natural gas but still pretty high based on the charts:

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.adm8680

 

[balthazarr]

I was an “electric neverer” until I was introduced to a $6000 Thermador Freedom induction cooktop. Mind you, I did not buy that.

But for not a lot of money zoneless or sorta zoneless induction cooktops exist and induction is just magical.

All this noise about “when I flip my flapjacks there is no heat” is just that, noise. No reason to cook like it is 1890.

I will point out to the open source aficionados, the Freedom runs Linux.

Agree - love my induction cooktop... except, I wish the glass top had more grip... you often can't stir one-handed because the vessel doesn't have enough grip on the glass. Of course, if it did have more grip it wouldn't be such a breeze to clean.

 

[Dogs in a Pile]

Love my induction cooktop. Very happy I picked it over gas when the house was built 6 years ago.