The Trek FX+ 2 e-bike is a jack-of-all-trades

Review: Trek's hybrid FX+ 2 e-bike puts cycling front and center.

See full article...

 

[miken32]

Appreciate this review. I've been on the fence about one of these for a while now, mostly out of familiarity (my current bike is an old Trek FX series that I don't ride nearly enough.) I've been kind of put off by the fact that it's a hub motor and this article (and the comments) seem to justify those concerns.

But the only other model I've been considering is a Specialized Turbo Vado SL with a mid-drive motor but that is 1.5-2x the price, depending on the model. Sigh

 

[Albino_Boo]

Not true at all, at least in my state, as Class/Type 1 and 2 are treated the same, with only Class/Type 3 being restricted from class 1 and 4 bikeways.

You do realise that the US isn't the largest market for bikes. The EU, UK and Australia restrict ebikes to 250w and no throttle.

 

[Ten Wind]

That's pretty contentious and varies from place to place. IMHO, Class 2's - with a throttle- ought to be relegated to the streets or at least places where the max speed is safe. But whoever put together the system really screwed up.

As far as US public land it's pretty clear that only Class I bikes will be (legally) allowed on trails that have a bicycle designation. Class II and III bikes will be OK only if motorcycles are allowed. This is what is coming out of talks with combined US property managers (mostly US Forest Service and the Bureau of Land Management) which supervise imperial shitloads of property.

But every entity that has authority over local roads / paths / trails can do whatever they want.

And we haven't even begun to talk about enforcement. Which, of course, will make a joke of everything above.

The classes really need to be revisited. They make no sense at all as they are. Class 1 and 3 are essentially the same, and class 2 in the middle is really the distinguished one. There really should be separate classes for ebikes with throttles.

The speed at which the assist cuts out seems pretty immaterial, and fairly arbitrary too. It feels like the real metric which should be regulated is max motor power output, that's what's enabling electric bikes to become so outlandishly heavy while maintaining high acceleration.

 

[.劉煒]

But the only other model I've been considering is a Specialized Turbo Vado SL with a mid-drive motor but that is 1.5-2x the price, depending on the model. Sigh

It's hard to go wrong with something like a RadCity, tbh.

 

[lazarus2405]

Eric, as a former bike shop worker who set up a lot of fits for people, you'd be a nightmare, with that long torso and proportionally short legs! Glad you're finding things that work for you.

On the MTB side he'd be a breeze to fit, at least for any bike with modern geometry/sizing. Put him on an XL frame (or whichever size has a reach of 480-500mm), throw on a long travel dropper and 165mm cranks, and go hit the trails.

Much more forgiving.

 

[Minnesota Steve]

I agree with previous comments on the ebike classes being confusing. I've been seeing the throttle bikes showing up on multiuse trails, and they're going way too fast. If it has a throttle it's a moped, not a bike and it should be more clearly identifiable.

The European market seems to be better for ebikes. Trek offers a much broader range of ebikes over there than they do in the states. I'm hoping the new Marlin+ makes it to the states.

 

[bvz_1]

Serendipitous. I was just looking at ebikes last night and saw this was a "very good overall" recommendation on sites. I recently moved to an area that's more cycling/pedestrian friendly and I've been feeling an itch to utilize it more. I'm still waffling on looking at speed/range and cargo capability.

One thing I've noticed from a driver's perspective as I'm seeing more of these on the roads is there's a bit of an uncanny speed for passing somewhere between 20-30 mph on 50+mph areas where it's slow enough to cause traffic to back up but fast enough that you sometimes have to put down some gas to pass in a timely fashion to mind other cars. It also doesn't help that a lot of riders seem like road newbies riding unpredictably (like weaving and hopping on and off sidewalks) and without much in the way of heads up or signalling.

Yeah, that's a pretty compelling argument for separated bike lanes. Cyclists should not be forced to share the road with cars going 50+ mph. (Actually, anything over 20 mph should have a separated bike way* - not just painted lines).

*It is not always necessary to put a separated bike lane on the exact same street as these higher speed roads. If there is an equivalent, parallel option on a street or two over that has lower speeds, that is just as good... if not better.

 

[morlamweb]

The classes really need to be revisited. They make no sense at all as they are. Class 1 and 3 are essentially the same, and class 2 in the middle is really the distinguished one. There really should be separate classes for ebikes with throttles.

The speed at which the assist cuts out seems pretty immaterial, and fairly arbitrary too. It feels like the real metric which should be regulated is max motor power output, that's what's enabling electric bikes to become so outlandishly heavy while maintaining high acceleration.

What the hell? Class 1 and 3 are the same? In my area, class 3s have a much higher speed limit compared to the lower classes. How is a 28 MPH top-speed bike the same as 20MPH??

 

[morlamweb]

I agree with previous comments on the ebike classes being confusing. I've been seeing the throttle bikes showing up on multiuse trails, and they're going way too fast. If it has a throttle it's a moped, not a bike and it should be more clearly identifiable.

The European market seems to be better for ebikes. Trek offers a much broader range of ebikes over there than they do in the states. I'm hoping the new Marlin+ makes it to the states.

The key difference is whether the throttle - which class 1s in my area do have - can operate the bicycle without pedaling input.

 

[bvz_1]

We are going to be getting the REI e1.1 tomorrow (assuming the test-ride goes well).

It is on sale for $900, has a UL-listed battery which is important to me, a range of about 30-40 miles depending on use, a store network with 2 years of adjustments, 12 month return policy (without having to pay for shipping), and seems to get decent reviews.

Would we rather have torque sensing? Absolutely. I have ridden both and torque sensing is about 1000% better. But the price difference for what is essentially a commuter bike is more than we want to spend.

I am currently welding up my own bakfiets style bike (it's anyone's guess as to whether I succeed). If that turns out not to be the absolute suckiest bike I have ever ridden, I will invest in a higher end torque sensing setup.

But $900 for a brand new, supported, UL-listed bike seems pretty good. It probably won't be as nice as this Trek though, but for the price differential, I'm ok with that.

 

[Ten Wind]

What the hell? Class 1 and 3 are the same? In my area, class 3s have a much higher speed limit compared to the lower classes. How is a 28 MPH top-speed bike the same as 20MPH??

That's not the top speed, just the speed that the assist cuts out at. Sure the class 3 will get from 20 to 27 mph faster than the class 1 and you'll have to work less to do it, but I think that's a bit of an academic distinction compared to the vast gulf between a light road bike and a heavy 'electric bike' that's pretty much a vespa that happens to have pedals.

Sure it makes sense to make distinctions between pedal powered bikes with electric assists based on the level of assist offered, but I think it makes more sense to make that distinction based on how much power is available from the motor than the way we do it now.

I think there a much much larger distinction to be made between the types of ebikes that are primarily pedal driven with an electric assist for acceleration, versus the types of ebikes that are primarily electric driven with a throttle and some pedals to rest your feet on.

 

[ColdWetDog]

One of the (several) things that has kept me from buying an e-bike so far is that so many of them look so silly (to this 72-year-old guy's eyes, anyway). Very pleased to see Trek offering an e-bike that looks like a bike, not like a UFO.

That seems to be changing, at least on the higher end of bikes. Especially with carbon frames and the newer, smaller motors you can stuff the electronics into a package that looks at first glance to be a 'normal' bike. Of course, that integration isn't cheap and the lower end bikes still tend to bolt the battery to the bottle cage lugs and use bigger motors.

I saw some e-bikes in Seattle this week that I would have sworn were human powered until the human didn't do any powering and the bike kept zipping along. Uphill. Seattle is weird, but not that weird.

 

[ColdWetDog]

The classes really need to be revisited. They make no sense at all as they are. Class 1 and 3 are essentially the same, and class 2 in the middle is really the distinguished one. There really should be separate classes for ebikes with throttles.

The speed at which the assist cuts out seems pretty immaterial, and fairly arbitrary too. It feels like the real metric which should be regulated is max motor power output, that's what's enabling electric bikes to become so outlandishly heavy while maintaining high acceleration.

And the throttle. Yes, it allows a weaker, cadence sensor bike to get off the line without too much hassle but also lets the rider with a weak frontal cortex play junior motorcycle racer on the bike path.

But yeah, the system wasn't thought out very well. I suspect that it won't change given the inertia already baked into the system.

 

[ColdWetDog]

We are going to be getting the REI e1.1 tomorrow (assuming the test-ride goes well).

It is on sale for $900, has a UL-listed battery which is important to me, a range of about 30-40 miles depending on use, a store network with 2 years of adjustments, 12 month return policy (without having to pay for shipping), and seems to get decent reviews.

Would we rather have torque sensing? Absolutely. I have ridden both and torque sensing is about 1000% better. But the price difference for what is essentially a commuter bike is more than we want to spend.

I am currently welding up my own bakfiets style bike (it's anyone's guess as to whether I succeed). If that turns out not to be the absolute suckiest bike I have ever ridden, I will invest in a higher end torque sensing setup.

But $900 for a brand new, supported, UL-listed bike seems pretty good. It probably won't be as nice as this Trek though, but for the price differential, I'm ok with that.

Bafang motor (cheap but easy to repair and really fairly reliable) and ... 54 pounds. Yikes. But it is low cost and, as you point out, reasonably well supported.

 

[Null_Space]

The key difference is whether the throttle - which class 1s in my area do have - can operate the bicycle without pedaling input.

It’s not a very meaningful distinction with a cadence sensor and high assist. The pedals effectively become a resistance-less “throttle” you actuate with your feet.

Weight and power and top speed are the real distinctions.

 

[smacktoward]

I ride a Trek FX+ 2 that I bought a little less than a year ago. (My first e-bike.) It's a very good bike! I've been completely satisfied with it.

The only thing I would add to the conversation is that in my experience, the cadence sensor is not as bad as people seem to think. It's true you don't get instant motor assist, but the motor kicks in quickly once you start turning the pedals. I've never had a moment where I felt like I needed speed but the motor wasn't there to provide it.

 

[SnoopCatt]

I would definitely consider something like this for commuting. But I'm a little bit scared that buying an e-bike would be the slippery slope to me ditching all my normal bikes (n=5)

 

[Maxxim]

I would definitely consider something like this for commuting. But I'm a little bit scared that buying an e-bike would be the slippery slope to me ditching all my normal bikes (n=5)

I have three e-bikes in my shed and nine regular bikes.

the e-bikes get used when we want to go a long way or when we need to carry a lot of gear.

 

[rmaine]

I had a Trek FX 2 (non-electric version) before I decided it was time for my aging body to move to an e-bike. (Actually, the FX 2 is still in my garage as a spare bike for guests). Went with the Trek Verve+ series and am very pleased. Just got a Verve+3 for my wife about 2 weeks ago, so we now both have them). Unlike the FX+ bikes, the Verve+ ones have torque sensors, which I REALLY like when starting across road intersections from a stop. Yes, they immediately kick in the assist. Oh, I like the range also. Have been doing the bike-my-age thing ever since I got the e-bike 2 years ago. Did my 72-mile ride last month.

 

[Trajen]

It’s not a very meaningful distinction with a cadence sensor and high assist. The pedals effectively become a resistance-less “throttle” you actuate with your feet.

Weight and power and top speed are the real distinctions.

This. I don’t understand all of this crapping on throttles. All that a throttle does is invoke the cadence sensor to suggest that the bike go faster. It isn’t some kind of superpower. Throttles are quite useful for low speed maneuvers where you need a nudge to stay vertical but a full revolution of the pedals isn’t possible or practical. And they allow for getting through an intersection a little quicker because there is no delay waiting for the cadence sensor to kick in. So IMHO bikes with a throttle offer more control and thus are safer to ride.

 

[SnoopCatt]

I have three e-bikes in my shed and nine regular bikes.

the e-bikes get used when we want to go a long way or when we need to carry a lot of gear.

Oh, I know I'll get one (or more) eventually, but while I can still keep up with my mates on my "manual" bikes, I value the boost to my cardio fitness

 

[Eric]

Eric, as a former bike shop worker who set up a lot of fits for people, you'd be a nightmare, with that long torso and proportionally short legs! Glad you're finding things that work for you.

When I input my measurements into the "what size bike do I need" checkers, they bluescreen!

I do better on gravel and cyclecross bikes because they have a longer top tube length, but I'm really happy with my current road bike. And the folks at my LBS have been super helpful

 

[bvz_1]

Bafang motor (cheap but easy to repair and really fairly reliable) and ... 54 pounds. Yikes. But it is low cost and, as you point out, reasonably well supported.

I'm not super in love with the fat tires that many ebikes come with these days (I am used to commuting on a "regular" bike for the past 20+ years and they were just fine). I feel like they could have gone with standard 26" mountain bike rims and saved some weight (and improved efficiency) but that is unfortunately just the fashion these days.

But that said, this is not a particularly heavy bike (compared to other ebikes). The Trek in this article is already over 40 pounds with slightly less range and a motor that is 100W less powerful. The REI bike probably also has a higher payload capacity for the rear rack - though I can't find actual data on that. That is a 15 pound difference... real but not mind blowing.

To be clear, 54 pounds is no joke, but for a bike that might have extra utility and costs just over 1/3 as much... its actually not that bad (assuming you don't have to carry it up stairs on the regular).

 

[DovePig]

Bafang motor (cheap but easy to repair and really fairly reliable) and ... 54 pounds. Yikes. But it is low cost and, as you point out, reasonably well supported.

The Decathlon‑sold e‑bikes here start at around €800 and weigh 20‑25 kg (the city folders are at the lower end of the weight range), and as far as I can tell they are mostly using Bafang as well. That's not so bad IMO. And I'd assume they have a EU‑approved battery, which would alleviate most of the concerns about cheap battery fires.

I am still tempted to adapt my 1980s Trek cross bike (does anybody still remember these? Sigh!) or my 1960s road bike to electric with a Bafang kit, but given the price of a reasonable DIY kit and my purely city use of electric, I might just as well get the Decathlon city folder for nearly the same price and keep the old bikes as they were...

 

[ahmlco]

Most of the market for high end Ebikes, class 1s are the only bike that's legal. Faster bikes are classed as mopeds or motorcycles and require the appropriate licence and insurance.

Right. On the local trails near me, only class 1s are allowed.

Class 3 ebikes can go up to 28 mph and do not require a motorcycle license or insurance.

 

[ahmlco]

The problem with powered-hub designs like this one is mentioned in the article. When you only have cadence sensors you have to start peddling and then wait for the bike to notice and start assisting. Better bikes have torque sensors on the pedal crankshaft that can tell when you're applying force and as such the motor can kick in immediately.

My Gazelle does this, and it makes the "assist" feel much, much more natural.

 

[hdtv00]

This product is a joke. It's performance - price is outrageous. Class 1 for $2500 is criminal, period. Do yourself a favor if you're even considering getting an ebike, look elsewhere. You'll save money and get a bike with twice the power, range , torque sensor on and on and on.

This article is written by someone who got a free ebike to write it or a completely clueless person when it comes to ebikes. Youtube is your friend when it comes to picking or learning about ebikes.

 

[schmod]

I see how that rack setup is actually attached, and I still have questions. Why make the fender a load-bearing component?

Seems like you're trading a lot of strength and stability for a slightly-cleaner look.

 

[BadBart]

One thing I've noticed from a driver's perspective as I'm seeing more of these on the roads is there's a bit of an uncanny speed for passing somewhere between 20-30 mph on 50+mph areas where it's slow enough to cause traffic to back up but fast enough that you sometimes have to put down some gas to pass in a timely fashion to mind other cars. It also doesn't help that a lot of riders seem like road newbies riding unpredictably (like weaving and hopping on and off sidewalks) and without much in the way of heads up or signalling.

As a long-time road cyclist, this is my biggest complaint about ebikers. Many of them have gained pro-level speed overnight, without significant time "behind the bars" to learn the etiquette of the road. They seem like newbies (weaving, switching to/from sidewalks, not signalling or calling out) because in many cases, they are.

 

[gr8bkset]

There are, at least on the DIY low end. It's all just 2 wire connectors to the battery, batteries themselves are just a gang of 18650s (hopefully) spot welded together, and most of the interfaces are swappable between motors and controllers.

Many of us have had the satisfaction of replacing one or two bad 18650 cells in our power tool battery. But with these soldered gang of 18650 in eBikes, it's almost impossible to replace a few bad ones, so people end up throwing the whole pack away. Maybe they can make 'D' sized batteries that'll fit in top tubes and down tubes like what we used to have on flashlights.

 

[bvz_1]

As a long-time road cyclist, this is my biggest complaint about ebikers. Many of them have gained pro-level speed overnight, without significant time "behind the bars" to learn the etiquette of the road. They seem like newbies (weaving, switching to/from sidewalks, not signalling or calling out) because in many cases, they are.

That is really more of a problem with poor cycling infrastructure. No doubt people should (and could) learn better bike etiquette. But if we had decent, separated bike paths then this kind of behavior would be significantly less of an issue.

 

[Abhi Beckert]

In response to comments about the chain guard and rack, they are both installed correctly (and somewhat unusually). The chain guard fastens to the seat stay a few inched above where you'd usually see it. And the rack has a single attachment point to the frame.

You can probably get away with that for the chain guard... but I refuse to believe that's how the rear rack is intended to be attached.

Put 5kg of groceries on that luggage rack, multiply that by that by the lever action of those luggage rack support pipes, and when you ride the bicycle over a bump you'd be applying about 60Nm of torque to the bolt holding the luggage rack on.

60Nm is more than enough force to snap a bolt that size unless it's high tensile steel (which it wouldn't be) and Trek is a reputable bicycle brand with 5 decades of experience. They surely wouldn't make a mistake that bad. It has to be attached to the seat post or at least the mud guard. It would't take much, even a cable tie would stiffen it up enough to eliminate the lever action and keep it secure with a typical luggage rack load.

 

[Abhi Beckert]

This. I don’t understand all of this crapping on throttles. All that a throttle does is invoke the cadence sensor to suggest that the bike go faster. It isn’t some kind of superpower. Throttles are quite useful for low speed maneuvers where you need a nudge to stay vertical but a full revolution of the pedals isn’t possible or practical. And they allow for getting through an intersection a little quicker because there is no delay waiting for the cadence sensor to kick in. So IMHO bikes with a throttle offer more control and thus are safer to ride.

The issue is a bicycle traditionally designed as a vehicle that anyone can ride anywhere they want, and they are pedal powered.

Then there are gas powered motorcycles, which are throttle powered and extremely dangerous for both the rider and any pedestrian or cyclist they might run into... to ride a motorcycle you need a license. And insurance. You're also specifically banned from riding these anywhere that you're likely to encounter pedestrians (for example, on footpaths and mountain bike trails). And there are extremely strict rules and regulations motorcycle manufacturers have to follow.

eBikes are in between and class 1/2/3 sit at different points on that spectrum. The rules are pretty arbitrary but in general a class 1 eBike is pretty close to a pedal powered bicycle and class 2/3 eBikes have a few of the drawbacks (regulation wise) of a motorcycle. For example class 3 must have a speedometer. Class 1 and 2 don't need one (they can have one, but it's not required by law).

The speedometer makes it practical for the rider to comply with signposted speed limits for example, which is a pretty important safety feature around dangerous areas where you might hit a pedestrian. It also takes away the "I didn't know I was going faster than the speed limit" defence if you're caught breaking the law.

Europe has far better rules, it varies a bit by country EU, but generally they have two types of eBike. One that is basically just an ordinary bicycle with a motor so you don't need to be fit to get up a hill or accelerate away from traffic lights, and the other class is basically a low speed motorcycle perfect for riding around the city (on roads, they'll keep up with cars) but they won't reach highway speeds (which lets them be a lot cheaper than an actual EV motorcycle).

As someone who rides a motorcycle every day, I certainly wish my eBike had a throttle. But I also get where they're coming from - pedalling tends to require a bit more skill to go fast, forces you to learn gears and balancing the bike to compensate for your legs/weight sifting every few seconds, you need to worry about striking the pedals on the ground... it's a lot harder to ride a pedal assisted eBike and in practice that tends to mean people spend more time learning how to ride them in a safe space (e.g. an empty car park or quiet street) before going out and riding 28mph among the cars.

 

[Abhi Beckert]

That is really more of a problem with poor cycling infrastructure. No doubt people should (and could) learn better bike etiquette. But if we had decent, separated bike paths then this kind of behavior would be significantly less of an issue.

Better cycling infrastructure would remove the risk of a cyclist getting run over by a car - but it wouldn't help with cyclists hitting other cyclists.

 

[Albino_Boo]

Class 3 ebikes can go up to 28 mph and do not require a motorcycle license or insurance.

Well you better tell the EU , UK and Australia they have been getting their own legislation wrong

 

[ColdWetDog]

Well you better tell the EU , UK and Australia they have been getting their own legislation wrong

It's even more complicated than that -

Electric Bicycle Laws - Wikipedia

 

[Null_Space]

As someone who rides a motorcycle every day, I certainly wish my eBike had a throttle. But I also get where they're coming from - pedalling tends to require a bit more skill to go fast, forces you to learn gears and balancing the bike to compensate for your legs/weight sifting every few seconds, you need to worry about striking the pedals on the ground... it's a lot harder to ride a pedal assisted eBike and in practice that tends to mean people spend more time learning how to ride them in a safe space (e.g. an empty car park or quiet street) before going out and riding 28mph among the cars.

There is no legal requirement for class 1/3 bikes to have (multiple) gears. There’s no requirement for a torque sensor, or limits on how much torque the motor can add. There’s no limit on how multiplicative the increase in cadence/RPMs can be.
It’s completely legal to build a 1/3 bike that has you very slowly, resistance-less turn the pedals and be booking at 20/28 mph.

The idea seems to be
1)make the motor (slightly) more annoying to engage.
2)???
3) safer, more responsible riders

Now, maybe it would have been better to include additional regulations like that, though it would have increased costs and hurt adoption.

For now, the distinction between 1 and 2 is fairly meaningless, which is why the national advocacy organization suggests they be treated identically (as far as use, licensing, etc)

 

[ColdWetDog]

There is no legal requirement for class 1/3 bikes to have (multiple) gears. There’s no requirement for a torque sensor, or limits on how much torque the motor can add. There’s no limit on how multiplicative the increase in cadence/RPMs can be.
It’s completely legal to build a 1/3 bike that has you very slowly, resistance-less turn the pedals and be booking at 20/28 mph.

The idea seems to be
1)make the motor (slightly) more annoying to engage.
2)???
3) safer, more responsible riders

Now, maybe it would have been better to include additional regulations like that, though it would have increased costs and hurt adoption.

For now, the distinction between 1 and 2 is fairly meaningless, which is why the national advocacy organization suggests they be treated identically (as far as use, licensing, etc)

'For now, the distinction between 1 and 2 is fairly meaningless'

Yes, except for the throttle. That changes rider's behavior considerably. And dangerously. It essentially turns the bike into a mini motorcycle. Which, in and of itself isn't a problem, but when you couple a mindless rider, a narrow path and a bunch of pedestrians, raises all sorts of problems.

 

[hubick]

I love how low-key non-e it looks. I went Bosch for my e-bike because I know I'll be able to find support from many dealers and a replacement battery 5-10 years from now - whereas I'd worry about that with these proprietary manufacturer specific in-frame designs that seem to change for every bike or every couple years.

 

[jandrese]

The classes really need to be revisited. They make no sense at all as they are. Class 1 and 3 are essentially the same, and class 2 in the middle is really the distinguished one. There really should be separate classes for ebikes with throttles.

The speed at which the assist cuts out seems pretty immaterial, and fairly arbitrary too. It feels like the real metric which should be regulated is max motor power output, that's what's enabling electric bikes to become so outlandishly heavy while maintaining high acceleration.

This is an unpopular opinion, but I think the entire class system for e-bikes is dumb and useless. It should be ditched entirely and there should be speed limits on trails instead. If someone is using a thumb throttle to do 12mph on the bike trail that should be allowed. If someone is on a super sporty aero shell equipped pedal power (non motorized) bike doing 30mph on a walking trail that is dangerous. The entire classification system for e-bikes is focused on weird implementation details that don’t matter. The only thing that matters is speed.