The Trek FX+ 2 e-bike is a jack-of-all-trades

Review: Trek's hybrid FX+ 2 e-bike puts cycling front and center.

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[ColdWetDog]

It isn't clear from TFA, but the bike seems to have a torque sensor driving the motor rather than a cadence sensor (it seems that the latter is just for rider information). That would be the appropriate sensor for this cost level but makes it even odder that Trek doesn't allow for more user control of the power curve.

That's pretty bog standard these days and at this price, I'd expect it. It is a very useful capability.

 

[ColdWetDog]

Cadence sensing on a $2,500 e-bike is a joke. At that price point you should be demanding torque sensing.

I think it is torque sensing. Says it has a torque sensor in the spec sheet. It also has a cadence sensor. And the docs (at least on a brief read) don't explicitly mention that the torque sensor is controlling the motor. A cadence sensor could be for rider input (knowing your cadence is key to efficient biking). But a torque sensor really doesn't have any use except to control the motor.

But neither the article or The Fine Documentation is explicit about this. Which is weird since it's Trek.

EDIT: But Eric's gripe makes more sense if it is a cadence sensor that is controlling the motor although a bad torque sensor adjustment curve can mimic a cadence sensor. Again a weird fail for a company like Trek with a bike at the high end of the scale.

 

[ColdWetDog]

Not true at all, at least in my state, as Class/Type 1 and 2 are treated the same, with only Class/Type 3 being restricted from class 1 and 4 bikeways.

That's pretty contentious and varies from place to place. IMHO, Class 2's - with a throttle- ought to be relegated to the streets or at least places where the max speed is safe. But whoever put together the system really screwed up.

As far as US public land it's pretty clear that only Class I bikes will be (legally) allowed on trails that have a bicycle designation. Class II and III bikes will be OK only if motorcycles are allowed. This is what is coming out of talks with combined US property managers (mostly US Forest Service and the Bureau of Land Management) which supervise imperial shitloads of property.

But every entity that has authority over local roads / paths / trails can do whatever they want.

And we haven't even begun to talk about enforcement. Which, of course, will make a joke of everything above.

 

[ColdWetDog]

It's not just Hyena at issue either. During the last 3 years, Trek has had supplier issues that are just beginning to subside; so while the quality is usually top notch and the service techs are great, I had to wait a year and a half for a replacement front fork part for one of my bikes bought 3 months before the issue cropped up, because Trek couldn't get them, period.

But at least Trek was still around when the part eventually became available and they eventually got it fixed.

Everybody has had supplier issues. Now instead of famine, it's feast and, oops, too much product. Cannondale has filed for bankruptcy (again). A lot of other manufacturers are in trouble. I'm not going to link anything here, but a quick perusal of any of the major biking sites will have plenty of Sturm Und Drang about this.

 

[ColdWetDog]

One of the (several) things that has kept me from buying an e-bike so far is that so many of them look so silly (to this 72-year-old guy's eyes, anyway). Very pleased to see Trek offering an e-bike that looks like a bike, not like a UFO.

That seems to be changing, at least on the higher end of bikes. Especially with carbon frames and the newer, smaller motors you can stuff the electronics into a package that looks at first glance to be a 'normal' bike. Of course, that integration isn't cheap and the lower end bikes still tend to bolt the battery to the bottle cage lugs and use bigger motors.

I saw some e-bikes in Seattle this week that I would have sworn were human powered until the human didn't do any powering and the bike kept zipping along. Uphill. Seattle is weird, but not that weird.

 

[ColdWetDog]

The classes really need to be revisited. They make no sense at all as they are. Class 1 and 3 are essentially the same, and class 2 in the middle is really the distinguished one. There really should be separate classes for ebikes with throttles.

The speed at which the assist cuts out seems pretty immaterial, and fairly arbitrary too. It feels like the real metric which should be regulated is max motor power output, that's what's enabling electric bikes to become so outlandishly heavy while maintaining high acceleration.

And the throttle. Yes, it allows a weaker, cadence sensor bike to get off the line without too much hassle but also lets the rider with a weak frontal cortex play junior motorcycle racer on the bike path.

But yeah, the system wasn't thought out very well. I suspect that it won't change given the inertia already baked into the system.

 

[ColdWetDog]

We are going to be getting the REI e1.1 tomorrow (assuming the test-ride goes well).

It is on sale for $900, has a UL-listed battery which is important to me, a range of about 30-40 miles depending on use, a store network with 2 years of adjustments, 12 month return policy (without having to pay for shipping), and seems to get decent reviews.

Would we rather have torque sensing? Absolutely. I have ridden both and torque sensing is about 1000% better. But the price difference for what is essentially a commuter bike is more than we want to spend.

I am currently welding up my own bakfiets style bike (it's anyone's guess as to whether I succeed). If that turns out not to be the absolute suckiest bike I have ever ridden, I will invest in a higher end torque sensing setup.

But $900 for a brand new, supported, UL-listed bike seems pretty good. It probably won't be as nice as this Trek though, but for the price differential, I'm ok with that.

Bafang motor (cheap but easy to repair and really fairly reliable) and ... 54 pounds. Yikes. But it is low cost and, as you point out, reasonably well supported.

 

[ColdWetDog]

Well you better tell the EU , UK and Australia they have been getting their own legislation wrong

It's even more complicated than that -

Electric Bicycle Laws - Wikipedia

 

[ColdWetDog]

There is no legal requirement for class 1/3 bikes to have (multiple) gears. There’s no requirement for a torque sensor, or limits on how much torque the motor can add. There’s no limit on how multiplicative the increase in cadence/RPMs can be.
It’s completely legal to build a 1/3 bike that has you very slowly, resistance-less turn the pedals and be booking at 20/28 mph.

The idea seems to be
1)make the motor (slightly) more annoying to engage.
2)???
3) safer, more responsible riders

Now, maybe it would have been better to include additional regulations like that, though it would have increased costs and hurt adoption.

For now, the distinction between 1 and 2 is fairly meaningless, which is why the national advocacy organization suggests they be treated identically (as far as use, licensing, etc)

'For now, the distinction between 1 and 2 is fairly meaningless'

Yes, except for the throttle. That changes rider's behavior considerably. And dangerously. It essentially turns the bike into a mini motorcycle. Which, in and of itself isn't a problem, but when you couple a mindless rider, a narrow path and a bunch of pedestrians, raises all sorts of problems.

 

[ColdWetDog]

I love how low-key non-e it looks. I went Bosch for my e-bike because I know I'll be able to find support from many dealers and a replacement battery 5-10 years from now - whereas I'd worry about that with these proprietary manufacturer specific in-frame designs that seem to change for every bike or every couple years.

There are perhaps 6-10 different motors in the e-bike field with a rapidly increasing third party support system. Yes, there will be losers and dropouts but even if the bike manufacturer goes away, support for the electronics doesn't necessarily go away.

Bangood, while hardly in the 'high quality performance' class, is well established and unlikely to go anywhere.

Batteries are batteries and there are only a few common cell types. While not suggested for home repair, there are plenty of companies and individuals who can rebuild e-bike (or most anything) batteries from those readily available component cells. The rest of the bike - suspension, brakes and gearing - again is basic commodity stuff. Even if you trash the frame, you can weld it back together (usually).