Do mechanical keyboards really need arrow keys?
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I need arrow keys because I'm left handed and I use them instead of WASD when gaming.
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I'd entertain the idea of putting the four keys where they put that touchpad, even if it looks like it would be awkward for more than just a few taps. Hitting the arrows without moving the hands could be beneficial when typing.
The thumb-touchpad version ? Hell no !
The thumb-touchpad version ? Hell no !
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Heh, you ninja'd me on Betteridge. Also a fan of numpads, but to be fair most of the roguelikes I play nowadays don't need them.
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It worked on this (yes - it's a completely different form factor). To move the cursor (or scroll webpages etc) the whole keypad was also a touch pad - just brush your thumbs up/down/left/right and the cursor would move. TBH - very cool.
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Full keyboard and an MX master w/clutch scroll wheel is the only way I can work. I MIGHT be willing to give up my arrow keys if there were some sort thumb accessable of thinkpad nipple device with a 'clicky' detent that would move the cursor just a single space/line and if you held it it would continue. I just can't countenance a touchpad.
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If you're shelling out for a mechanical keyboard why in the world would you want to put some non-mechanical keys on it??
(And why won't anyone make a copy of the old Northgate Omnikey Ultra? The fact that there's still a market for quarter-century old keyboards says a lot to me.)
(And why won't anyone make a copy of the old Northgate Omnikey Ultra? The fact that there's still a market for quarter-century old keyboards says a lot to me.)
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Artem S. Tashkinov
Ars Scholae Palatinae
So, if I actively use mouse I now need not just two, but three hands? Woah, hold your horses.
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...Except this one apparently doubles the price of each remaining key for every removed one. What, about 55 keys for $400-600?When you go too far down the keyboard collecting rabbit hole and not only start deciding that $1/key models aren't good enough but that you need a different keyboard not just for every hour of the day; slashing their functionality to the bone to avoid having to sell your second kidney starts to seem like a good idea.
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Based on a quick perusal of the wikipedia article, because all of that configuration can be done in software today; and Alps switches are rare enough that anything with them is going to be of interest to keyboard collectors.
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Might be OK for gamers or casual users. But for those of us often doing actual work with our keyboards, arrow keys are pretty important. Sure, I can click and scroll with a mouse or touchpad, but moving cursors around (with or without CTRL/Shift) in text editors and other productivity apps is pretty crucial to my workflow.
Same for num pad. Once you master num pad, there is no going back for data entry and other similar work activities.
Same for num pad. Once you master num pad, there is no going back for data entry and other similar work activities.
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So interesting article aside, does no one else find it odd that the entire article is written based on articles from other tech news sites that actually reviewed this device in some way? Outside of the comment section here, why would I not just go read the Verge and TechDirt reviews of this device?
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Personally I only use full size keyboards as I make regular use of the numpad, but I can definitely understand the value of tenkeyless layouts for those who don't use the numpad and who have narrower shoulders to try and get the keyboard and mouse closer together.
Anything smaller than that doesn't seem worthwhile though; practically speaking they're not smaller enough to meaningfully affect ergonomics or where you can put your keyboard, so why are you making your experience so much more awkward by requiring layers/chording for functionality you use every day?
Anything smaller than that doesn't seem worthwhile though; practically speaking they're not smaller enough to meaningfully affect ergonomics or where you can put your keyboard, so why are you making your experience so much more awkward by requiring layers/chording for functionality you use every day?
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I loved the trigger button when I mapped it for the space bar and kept the thumb key as secondary sometimes. Forgot that the form factor on the palm rest was the best of its time for the avg hand size. For sure on Razer, my eyes widened when I saw them taking up Belkin's N52 design. At least this design still lives.
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It is an interesting design - I've always thought the keyboard was missing a scroll-wheel (touch or wheel) instead of pageup/down. It might be additive.
As a coder though, I think it would be impossible to get use to. Sometimes I have to reformat data and I have memorized the keystrokes "[end] , [down]" ... stuff like that.
As a coder though, I think it would be impossible to get use to. Sometimes I have to reformat data and I have memorized the keystrokes "[end] , [down]" ... stuff like that.
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YES. I want the keys, in fact I want the full 105 keys, in the standard configuration or bust. It's unfortunate that most if not all build-it-yourself keyboards have no keypad or the specials column.
I know this is mostly a personal quirk because I game with the mouse at left and movement by arrow (wasd can go straight to hell, I've done it this way for literally as long as FPSes have existed), but it's critical for me to have those keys for assignable functions. I use "end" for crouch in every game, for example, and ins/del, pgup/pgdown for things that cycle, with "home" for reload.
I know this is mostly a personal quirk because I game with the mouse at left and movement by arrow (wasd can go straight to hell, I've done it this way for literally as long as FPSes have existed), but it's critical for me to have those keys for assignable functions. I use "end" for crouch in every game, for example, and ins/del, pgup/pgdown for things that cycle, with "home" for reload.
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I've tried a few different mechanical switches but could never get behind any of them. I finally shelled out and got a topre switch keyboard and it's the end game.
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We use WASD anyway
More seriously, I wish keyboards even had greek letters plus mathematical symbols and common symbols such as °, Ø...
More seriously, I wish keyboards even had greek letters plus mathematical symbols and common symbols such as °, Ø...
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I know portability would suck unless you invested a dummy amount of $ or real-estate into some kind of pop-out mechanism, but...
I feel like a mini-joystick in that same spot would be more interesting than this. Though I can't imagine Logitech and Razor haven't experimented with something like that to port part of the concept of the G13 et al to a full keyboard.
For most games, WASD (and if you really want to get fancy, variable-pressure WASD) would still be better for controlling movement, but for MMOs like WoW where prime button space is at a premium, being able to have the thumb handle movement and jump and letting me reclaim WASD for frequent spells/etc would be something I'd definitely consider (even if the angle, size, etc of such a joystick would inevitably be suboptimal).
For productivity... as much as "typing" with a console gamepad sucks, the basic "cursor movement" that kind of control scheme has enabled seems to me like it would be much more fluid than what this touchpad does.
I also low-key wonder if Lenovo has ever experimented with tossing their infamous red ball to this spot- I assume laptop layouts make it unhelpful, but I'd be surprised if IBM/Lenovo hasn't ever considered a stand-alone keyboard with the ball integrated and if so if they've experimented using the bottom of the keyboard like this. Since no such product exists that I'm aware of, I imagine if they tried it, they found it to not be a great fit, but who knows?
I feel like a mini-joystick in that same spot would be more interesting than this. Though I can't imagine Logitech and Razor haven't experimented with something like that to port part of the concept of the G13 et al to a full keyboard.
For most games, WASD (and if you really want to get fancy, variable-pressure WASD) would still be better for controlling movement, but for MMOs like WoW where prime button space is at a premium, being able to have the thumb handle movement and jump and letting me reclaim WASD for frequent spells/etc would be something I'd definitely consider (even if the angle, size, etc of such a joystick would inevitably be suboptimal).
For productivity... as much as "typing" with a console gamepad sucks, the basic "cursor movement" that kind of control scheme has enabled seems to me like it would be much more fluid than what this touchpad does.
I also low-key wonder if Lenovo has ever experimented with tossing their infamous red ball to this spot- I assume laptop layouts make it unhelpful, but I'd be surprised if IBM/Lenovo hasn't ever considered a stand-alone keyboard with the ball integrated and if so if they've experimented using the bottom of the keyboard like this. Since no such product exists that I'm aware of, I imagine if they tried it, they found it to not be a great fit, but who knows?
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As someone working with Animation software for a living, absolutely yes, I need it.
In fact, I even need the "traditional" space around the arrow keys, so that I can easily locate them with my fingers without looking away from the monitor. Keyboards with any unusual layout simply aren't that functional for me.
Keys like WASD are already assigned to other important shortcuts that sometimes need a modifier like ALT (which can be done with my left thumb, without shifting the hand too much), so assigning the current cursor keys shortcuts to them would make my life worse, even if I don't account for muscle memory!
In fact, I even need the "traditional" space around the arrow keys, so that I can easily locate them with my fingers without looking away from the monitor. Keyboards with any unusual layout simply aren't that functional for me.
Keys like WASD are already assigned to other important shortcuts that sometimes need a modifier like ALT (which can be done with my left thumb, without shifting the hand too much), so assigning the current cursor keys shortcuts to them would make my life worse, even if I don't account for muscle memory!
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I'm guessing these keyboards are crazy expensive if they can afford to buy headlines like this. I've never even heard of this brand before.
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I don't want arrows for scrolling, I want them so when I see a typo 2 lines up and one character to the left, I can just tap 3 times and I'm there, I don't have to stare at the screen and try to carefully click between 2 letters so I can make my correction.
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I have found making the tenkey separate is nice from a space stabdpoint, and I can deal with the Function keys being a combo. But yeah, arrow keys i need to keep.
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Considering my arrow keys don’t have arrows due to use, I’m going to say yes to arrow keys.
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I too like mechanical keyboards for their "tactility." I wonder what it would be like if they put in a set of mechanical arrow keys in the same spot. Wouldn't be great for heavy use (don't think the touchpad either) ... but maybe it would work for light use cases.
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For portable devices, slimmed down keyboards are perfectly fine. When I really want to just sit down and play some old games, I'll stick with a classic keyboard arrangement. I need those arrow keys.... for stuff...
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My first computer was a TRS-80 Model 1. It had cursor keys.
The next was a BBC Micro. It had cursor keys.
Next was an Acorn Archimedes A310, followed by an A5000. Cursor keys.
After that a series of Macs and PCs. Cursor keys.
Every computer I've owned in the last 40 years has had cursor keys. And while I'm quite willing to admit that something may one day replace them, this, I feel, isn't it. Not today at least.
The next was a BBC Micro. It had cursor keys.
Next was an Acorn Archimedes A310, followed by an A5000. Cursor keys.
After that a series of Macs and PCs. Cursor keys.
Every computer I've owned in the last 40 years has had cursor keys. And while I'm quite willing to admit that something may one day replace them, this, I feel, isn't it. Not today at least.
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I need arrow keys, and I need the block of keys above the arrows, but I don't need a numpad.
Unfortunately, most of the keyboards I look at do stupid unacceptable things like make a laptop-style setup that compromises the right side of the normal keyboard.
Thus, I keep buying keyboards with a full numpad as well.
Unfortunately, most of the keyboards I look at do stupid unacceptable things like make a laptop-style setup that compromises the right side of the normal keyboard.
Thus, I keep buying keyboards with a full numpad as well.
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No. Been using 60% for years, what I need is to activate the layer with my right hand pinky and the "arrows" accessible from the other fingers on my right hand.
It's a lot more comfortable than those crappy half height arrow keys on laptop keyboards.
It's a lot more comfortable than those crappy half height arrow keys on laptop keyboards.
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