Musk meets with critics, says Twitter won’t restore banned users before election

Musk: Twitter will consult civil rights groups before restoring any banned users.

Read the whole story

 

[Alfonse]

WHAT IF- The accusation that someone is MAGA, an “election denier,” a “climate denier,” a “data denier,” etc., is just a deceptive way for the CENSOR to be a “free speech denier,”-
that is, of denying one’s political opponent the right to express their opinion?

WHAT IF all of these sophists just like to silence dissent, like Sophocles being condemned to drink hemlock-poison, because HE was 'dangerous', a 'denier', who prodded people to ask questions?

Does anybody remember the ACLU of Skokie, which actually fought for free-speech, no matter WHO disliked what people said?

"In 1978, the ACLU took a controversial stand for free speech by defending a neo-Nazi group that wanted to march through the Chicago suburb of Skokie..."
www. aclu. org/ other/ aclu-history-taking-stand-free-speech-skokie

I think you mean the philosopher, Socrates -- not the tragedian.

I do have a bunch of election deniers in my own neighborhood & it is their right to believe whatever they like.

However, since reason will not work on these people, the best way to deprogram them is to make them count every single ballot by hand and livestream it
(and safety checks to prevent tampering)

OK, how exactly can you live next to these people, interact with them daily, and not understand this simple point:

They do not care about facts!

Facts will never change their minds. You can live stream every hand-counted ballot, and they will just invent new justifications to believe what they want. Nothing you can show them will ever change their minds.

They did not arrive at their conclusion due to a lack of facts. They arrived at their conclusion due to motivated reasoning, a desire to believe that everyone secretly agrees with them. They do not want to believe that their policies are unpopular; therefore, they believe that the elections that prove this were rigged.

 

[unequivocal]

I'd like to point out here that what Musk says should be seen as strictly aspirational (to be generous). Just to take one example from the last few days, see his change of heart on how much Twitter's blue check mark is going to cost.

The only thing that matters is what he does. I'd rather we focus on what Musk is doing instead of what he's saying.

His genius (such as it is) is in getting noticed and making big decisions unilaterally.

The former may put Twitter in the spotlight which could be good for user growth and media recognition. It's what Trump does - spew inanity, 90% of which you never implement, and get coverage on it which raises your brand. Controversy sells.

The second item will be interesting internal to Twitter - will he destroy the internal culture or rebuild it in line to the fast, cheap, better (do all three) ethos he pushes (not always successfully) at SpaceX and Tesla?

If he doesn't lose his mind, and the company, over free speech absolutism, it's not obvious that he can't grow Twitter in terms of user base, revenue, and profits.. But it's definitely going to be ugly to watch him try.

 

[jebrick]

I am interested to see what he does with #TrumpIsDead. That is a decent test to see if you can put outright lies on Twitter now.

 

[Jivejebus]

I think you mean the philosopher, Socrates -- not the tragedian.

I do have a bunch of election deniers in my own neighborhood & it is their right to believe whatever they like.g)

It's really not.

Look, you also have people believing that the Earth is flat & the moon landing was faked etc etc
It doesn't change the fact the above are not true.

You & I may not agree on that right, but it is there & as long as people don't break the law or resort to violence then they can be ignored as fringe cases

The moment we lay down a law on what is the correct "thought", then we have jumped over to CCP territory, because that same law can come back & bite us in the future

So there was no law breaking or violence in relation to people thinking the election was "stolen" people are free to believe all the wacky conspiracy theories they want until that stuff start having real world consequences.

Did you know that birds aren't real? They're all government drones sent to spy on us

 

[Wheels Of Confusion]

For someone made famous by his electric car company, Musk sure is getting a lot of practice pedaling backwards these days.

 

[DRJlaw]

I want James Lindsay unbanned. His case is a litmus test of previous Twitter's insanity.

Ah, yes, because "Ok, child sexualization specialist" is protected defamatory speech.

Not.

 

[Deleted member 221201]

I think you mean the philosopher, Socrates -- not the tragedian.

I do have a bunch of election deniers in my own neighborhood & it is their right to believe whatever they like.g)

It's really not.

Look, you also have people believing that the Earth is flat & the moon landing was faked etc etc
It doesn't change the fact the above are not true.

You & I may not agree on that right, but it is there & as long as people don't break the law or resort to violence then they can be ignored as fringe cases

The moment we lay down a law on what is the correct "thought", then we have jumped over to CCP territory, because that same law can come back & bite us in the future

So there was no law breaking or violence in relation to people thinking the election was "stolen" people are free to believe all the wacky conspiracy theories they want until that stuff start having real world consequences.

Did you know that birds aren't real? They're all government drones sent to spy on us

The law breaking as regards to Jan 6th is being correctly handled in court, with prison sentences for those involved

What is not right is the people in Congress/Senate who supported the sedition are still holding office & are somehow immune from prosecution
Why & how they can avoid this & ignore subpoenas as beyond me as most of us regular folks would be in contempt of court by now

Edit:
I saw a documentary on that "birds" conspiracy theory & it was pretty darned funny

My personal take is people are so addicted to their phones/social media that with the constant dopamine hit their brains are simply too fatigued & are more susceptible to fringe theories

 

[Uragan]

I think you mean the philosopher, Socrates -- not the tragedian.

I do have a bunch of election deniers in my own neighborhood & it is their right to believe whatever they like.g)

It's really not.

Look, you also have people believing that the Earth is flat & the moon landing was faked etc etc
It doesn't change the fact the above are not true.

You & I may not agree on that right, but it is there & as long as people don't break the law or resort to violence then they can be ignored as fringe cases

The moment we lay down a law on what is the correct "thought", then we have jumped over to CCP territory, because that same law can come back & bite us in the future

So there was no law breaking or violence in relation to people thinking the election was "stolen" people are free to believe all the wacky conspiracy theories they want until that stuff start having real world consequences.

Did you know that birds aren't real? They're all government drones sent to spy on us

Did you know fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous communist plot we have ever had to face? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hardcore Commie works.

 

[frostdillicus]

WHAT IF- The accusation that someone is MAGA, an “election denier,” a “climate denier,” a “data denier,” etc., is just a deceptive way for the CENSOR to be a “free speech denier,”-
that is, of denying one’s political opponent the right to express their opinion?

WHAT IF all of these sophists just like to silence dissent, like Sophocles being condemned to drink hemlock-poison, because HE was 'dangerous', a 'denier', who prodded people to ask questions?

Does anybody remember the ACLU of Skokie, which actually fought for free-speech, no matter WHO disliked what people said?

"In 1978, the ACLU took a controversial stand for free speech by defending a neo-Nazi group that wanted to march through the Chicago suburb of Skokie..."
www. aclu. org/ other/ aclu-history-taking-stand-free-speech-skokie

Twitter isn't the government. They have the First Amendment right of Freedom of Association. The government of Chicago doesn't.

You don't get to cherry pick which parts of the First Amendment you like and which ones you don't.

 

[Fancy Internet Person]

This move will displease basically everyone.

Advertisers aren't going to get on board before they see what actually happens and white supremacists are going to be angry until they get blood.

 

[Chemical Tribe]

WHAT IF- The accusation that someone is MAGA, an “election denier,” a “climate denier,” a “data denier,” etc., is just a deceptive way for the CENSOR to be a “free speech denier,”-
that is, of denying one’s political opponent the right to express their opinion?

WHAT IF all of these sophists just like to silence dissent, like Sophocles being condemned to drink hemlock-poison, because HE was 'dangerous', a 'denier', who prodded people to ask questions?

Does anybody remember the ACLU of Skokie, which actually fought for free-speech, no matter WHO disliked what people said?

"In 1978, the ACLU took a controversial stand for free speech by defending a neo-Nazi group that wanted to march through the Chicago suburb of Skokie..."
www. aclu. org/ other/ aclu-history-taking-stand-free-speech-skokie

I think you mean the philosopher, Socrates -- not the tragedian.

I do have a bunch of election deniers in my own neighborhood & it is their right to believe whatever they like.

However, since reason will not work on these people, the best way to deprogram them is to make them count every single ballot by hand and livestream it
(and safety checks to prevent tampering)

OK, how exactly can you live next to these people, interact with them daily, and not understand this simple point:

They do not care about facts!

Facts will never change their minds. You can live stream every hand-counted ballot, and they will just invent new justifications to believe what they want. Nothing you can show them will ever change their minds.

They did not arrive at their conclusion due to a lack of facts. They arrived at their conclusion due to motivated reasoning, a desire to believe that everyone secretly agrees with them. They do not want to believe that their policies are unpopular; therefore, they believe that the elections that prove this were rigged.

The Card Says Moops.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMabpBvtXr4

 

[Chemical Tribe]

I think you mean the philosopher, Socrates -- not the tragedian.

I do have a bunch of election deniers in my own neighborhood & it is their right to believe whatever they like.g)

It's really not.

Look, you also have people believing that the Earth is flat & the moon landing was faked etc etc
It doesn't change the fact the above are not true.

You & I may not agree on that right, but it is there & as long as people don't break the law or resort to violence then they can be ignored as fringe cases

The moment we lay down a law on what is the correct "thought", then we have jumped over to CCP territory, because that same law can come back & bite us in the future

We are way, way past that bro.

 

[altsuperego]

Problem is, he's already intervened. Mark Finchem, a candidate for AZ Sec of State, had his ban overturned this week.

That's different, Thiel said it was ok

 

[Firefool125]

LOLOLOL. Dog whistling doesn't make enough money?

 

[ColdWetDog]

This move will displease basically everyone.

Advertisers aren't going to get on board before they see what actually happens and white supremacists are going to be angry until they get blood.

Advertisers will wait until the heat dies down, then slowly creep back in. Remember Facebook? Or even Russia (companies are using fronts to sell products in Russia).

They aren't in it for the morality of the situation. They're in it for money.

 

[terrydactyl]

I guess the American Nazi Party is a civil rights group now.

When satire becomes reality.

 

[Wallachia]

I'm going to say this in just about every thread that involves Twitter, elections, antivaxx conspiracy theories, etc.

If you step back about twenty feet -- the Information Age is going about exactly how you might imagine it would if it was invented and run by a species of mentally unbalanced apes -- which it was, so it is.

 

[Urist]

WHAT IF- The accusation that someone is MAGA, an “election denier,” a “climate denier,” a “data denier,” etc., is just a deceptive way for the CENSOR to be a “free speech denier,”-
that is, of denying one’s political opponent the right to express their opinion?

WHAT IF all of these sophists just like to silence dissent, like Sophocles being condemned to drink hemlock-poison, because HE was 'dangerous', a 'denier', who prodded people to ask questions?

Does anybody remember the ACLU of Skokie, which actually fought for free-speech, no matter WHO disliked what people said?

"In 1978, the ACLU took a controversial stand for free speech by defending a neo-Nazi group that wanted to march through the Chicago suburb of Skokie..."
www. aclu. org/ other/ aclu-history-taking-stand-free-speech-skokie

Looks like the freeze peach assholeflutists are here to lecture us about Skokie again.

"I hate Illinois nazis."

 

[terrydactyl]

This move will displease basically everyone.

Advertisers aren't going to get on board before they see what actually happens and white supremacists are going to be angry until they get blood.

Advertisers will wait until the heat dies down, then slowly creep back in. Remember Facebook? Or even Russia (companies are using fronts to sell products in Russia).

They aren't in it for the morality of the situation. They're in it for money.

Or, the morality of the situation is part of the cost/benefit calculation.

 

[Chemical Tribe]

I think you mean the philosopher, Socrates -- not the tragedian.

I do have a bunch of election deniers in my own neighborhood & it is their right to believe whatever they like.g)

It's really not.

Look, you also have people believing that the Earth is flat & the moon landing was faked etc etc
It doesn't change the fact the above are not true.

You & I may not agree on that right, but it is there & as long as people don't break the law or resort to violence then they can be ignored as fringe cases

The moment we lay down a law on what is the correct "thought", then we have jumped over to CCP territory, because that same law can come back & bite us in the future

We are way, way past that bro.

I hope you voted "bro", because it is up to sane people to show up & make their vote count if we are to have a functional democracy

You think conservatives give a shit about democracy?

Yes, you've been in a coma these past 6 years.

 

[CraigJ ✅]

WHAT IF- The accusation that someone is MAGA, an “election denier,” a “climate denier,” a “data denier,” etc., is just a deceptive way for the CENSOR to be a “free speech denier,”-
that is, of denying one’s political opponent the right to express their opinion?

WHAT IF all of these sophists just like to silence dissent, like Sophocles being condemned to drink hemlock-poison, because HE was 'dangerous', a 'denier', who prodded people to ask questions?

Does anybody remember the ACLU of Skokie, which actually fought for free-speech, no matter WHO disliked what people said?

"In 1978, the ACLU took a controversial stand for free speech by defending a neo-Nazi group that wanted to march through the Chicago suburb of Skokie..."
www. aclu. org/ other/ aclu-history-taking-stand-free-speech-skokie

I think you mean the philosopher, Socrates -- not the tragedian.

I do have a bunch of election deniers in my own neighborhood & it is their right to believe whatever they like.

However, since reason will not work on these people, the best way to deprogram them is to make them count every single ballot by hand and livestream it
(and safety checks to prevent tampering)

OK, how exactly can you live next to these people, interact with them daily, and not understand this simple point:

They do not care about facts!

Facts will never change their minds. You can live stream every hand-counted ballot, and they will just invent new justifications to believe what they want. Nothing you can show them will ever change their minds.

They did not arrive at their conclusion due to a lack of facts. They arrived at their conclusion due to motivated reasoning, a desire to believe that everyone secretly agrees with them. They do not want to believe that their policies are unpopular; therefore, they believe that the elections that prove this were rigged.

"OK, how exactly can you live next to these people"

Nervously, with lots of ammo.

 

[Akemi]

WHAT IF- The accusation that someone is MAGA, an “election denier,” a “climate denier,” a “data denier,” etc., is just a deceptive way for the CENSOR to be a “free speech denier,”-
that is, of denying one’s political opponent the right to express their opinion?

WHAT IF all of these sophists just like to silence dissent, like Sophocles being condemned to drink hemlock-poison, because HE was 'dangerous', a 'denier', who prodded people to ask questions?

Does anybody remember the ACLU of Skokie, which actually fought for free-speech, no matter WHO disliked what people said?

"In 1978, the ACLU took a controversial stand for free speech by defending a neo-Nazi group that wanted to march through the Chicago suburb of Skokie..."
www. aclu. org/ other/ aclu-history-taking-stand-free-speech-skokie

I think you mean the philosopher, Socrates -- not the tragedian.

I do have a bunch of election deniers in my own neighborhood & it is their right to believe whatever they like.

However, since reason will not work on these people, the best way to deprogram them is to make them count every single ballot by hand and livestream it
(and safety checks to prevent tampering)

OK, how exactly can you live next to these people, interact with them daily, and not understand this simple point:

They do not care about facts!

Facts will never change their minds. You can live stream every hand-counted ballot, and they will just invent new justifications to believe what they want. Nothing you can show them will ever change their minds.

They did not arrive at their conclusion due to a lack of facts. They arrived at their conclusion due to motivated reasoning, a desire to believe that everyone secretly agrees with them. They do not want to believe that their policies are unpopular; therefore, they believe that the elections that prove this were rigged.

I mean, one of the major sticking points about the whole stolen election claim is that we have an actual paper trail. It's all political BS.

Look at Florida. Prior to all the Trump hubbub our elected officials were crowing from the rafters about having the most seamless and secure election ever. Until Trump opened his mouth and suddenly Florida's election was just a sham that needed to be tightened up because- reasons.

None of the conspiracy theories make the remotest sense. Especially when you take into consideration there's only been one election close enough that voter fraud could have potentially moved that presidential election needle. That was Gore and Bush which was decided in Florida by just a little over 540 votes. Trump is just cheesed that he was voted out after one term and he lost the popular vote when he did win the first go-round.

 

[Fancy Internet Person]

This move will displease basically everyone.

Advertisers aren't going to get on board before they see what actually happens and white supremacists are going to be angry until they get blood.

Advertisers will wait until the heat dies down, then slowly creep back in. Remember Facebook? Or even Russia (companies are using fronts to sell products in Russia).

They aren't in it for the morality of the situation. They're in it for money.

I know they aren't in it for the morality.

But at the same time, Pepsi and Ford and Kellogg's don't want their ad to appear next to a post like "KILL ALL THE (your choice of slur)".

 

[ZippyPeanut]

WHAT IF- The accusation that someone is MAGA, an “election denier,” a “climate denier,” a “data denier,” etc., is just a deceptive way for the CENSOR to be a “free speech denier,”-
that is, of denying one’s political opponent the right to express their opinion?

WHAT IF all of these sophists just like to silence dissent, like Sophocles being condemned to drink hemlock-poison, because HE was 'dangerous', a 'denier', who prodded people to ask questions?

Does anybody remember the ACLU of Skokie, which actually fought for free-speech, no matter WHO disliked what people said?

"In 1978, the ACLU took a controversial stand for free speech by defending a neo-Nazi group that wanted to march through the Chicago suburb of Skokie..."
www. aclu. org/ other/ aclu-history-taking-stand-free-speech-skokie

Looks like the freeze peach assholeflutists are here to lecture us about Skokie again.

I would pay to see a person play a flute with their ass.

The mouth positioning on a flute makes playing it with your ass impossible. However, a trumpet or a trombone is quite different, especially since you "buzz" through the mouthpiece to get the horn to sound. I can play "Mary Had a Little Lamb" on the trumpet through my ass, but the trombone has proven to be an altogether different beast. You see, with the smaller valve-operated trumpet, I can lay on my back, bring my knees up to both sides of my head with my ass in the air, and reach my arms over the backs of my legs to play the music. The slide-operated trombone, on the other hand, requires acts of contortion that I've yet to master, not to mention excessive beans and garlic prior to the performance.

 

[The Real Blastdoor]

I'd like to point out here that what Musk says should be seen as strictly aspirational (to be generous). Just to take one example from the last few days, see his change of heart on how much Twitter's blue check mark is going to cost.

The only thing that matters is what he does. I'd rather we focus on what Musk is doing instead of what he's saying.

I kind of agree with that, except that in some contexts 'saying' is a form of 'doing.' For example, if someone says

"My dear, wonderful people! Go storm the Capitol! I love you, you're wonderful! Kill all my enemies! XOXO"

but does not actually do those things himself, then is that ok? I think not.

 

[ranthog]

I guess the American Nazi Party is a civil rights group now.

No one is more persecuted than the Proud Boys.

 

[Snark218]

I think you mean the philosopher, Socrates -- not the tragedian.

I do have a bunch of election deniers in my own neighborhood & it is their right to believe whatever they like.g)

It's really not.

Look, you also have people believing that the Earth is flat & the moon landing was faked etc etc
It doesn't change the fact the above are not true.

You & I may not agree on that right, but it is there & as long as people don't break the law or resort to violence then they can be ignored as fringe cases

The moment we lay down a law on what is the correct "thought", then we have jumped over to CCP territory, because that same law can come back & bite us in the future

It's not a matter of correct thought, as if this is a matter of holding the correct subjective opinions. If someone rejects the reality that their candidate lost a free, fair, democratic election with no notable discrepancies, a reality that is objective and based in abundant fact, there is no basis for a shared polity with them. It is not possible to co-occupy a democratic system with people who fundamentally do not believe in democracy. A democracy cannot cede the right to determine reality to people who reject it. You have the right to your own views, your own values, your own opinions. I do not believe anyone has the right to insist that despite all imaginable evidence, their candidate won an election.

And given that they already stormed the Capitol in an attempt to do political violence and compel the Vice President to invalidate that election, given that one of them just tried to assassinate the Speaker of the House, I think you need to get your head on straight and stop writing them off as a tiny minority of harmless loons. These people are not fringe cases. How can you think they are, with any awareness of the shit that's gone down in this country over the last few years?

 

[zAmboni]

Musk: Twitter will consult civil rights groups before restoring any banned users.

You forgot the air-quotes around consult.

 

[ranthog]

I do have a bunch of election deniers in my own neighborhood & it is their right to believe whatever they like.g)

It's really not.

Look, you also have people believing that the Earth is flat & the moon landing was faked etc etc
It doesn't change the fact the above are not true.

You & I may not agree on that right, but it is there & as long as people don't break the law or resort to violence then they can be ignored as fringe cases

The moment we lay down a law on what is the correct "thought", then we have jumped over to CCP territory, because that same law can come back & bite us in the future

We are way, way past that bro.

I hope you voted "bro", because it is up to sane people to show up & make their vote count if we are to have a functional democracy

You think conservatives give a shit about democracy?

Yes, you've been in a coma these past 6 years.

I'd argue the last 14 years. I can't imagine what happened almost 14 years ago.

 

[Snark218]

WHAT IF- The accusation that someone is MAGA, an “election denier,” a “climate denier,” a “data denier,” etc., is just a deceptive way for the CENSOR to be a “free speech denier,”-
that is, of denying one’s political opponent the right to express their opinion?

WHAT IF all of these sophists just like to silence dissent, like Sophocles being condemned to drink hemlock-poison, because HE was 'dangerous', a 'denier', who prodded people to ask questions?

Does anybody remember the ACLU of Skokie, which actually fought for free-speech, no matter WHO disliked what people said?

"In 1978, the ACLU took a controversial stand for free speech by defending a neo-Nazi group that wanted to march through the Chicago suburb of Skokie..."
www. aclu. org/ other/ aclu-history-taking-stand-free-speech-skokie

Looks like the freeze peach assholeflutists are here to lecture us about Skokie again.

I would pay to see a person play a flute with their ass.

The mouth positioning on a flute makes playing it with your ass impossible. However, a trumpet or a trombone is quite different, especially since you "buzz" through the mouthpiece to get the horn to sound. I can play "Mary Had a Little Lamb" on the trumpet through my ass, but the trombone has proven to be an altogether different beast. You see, with the smaller valve-operated trumpet, I can lay on my back, bring my knees up to both sides of my head with my ass in the air, and reach my arms over the backs of my legs to play the music. The slide-operated trombone, on the other hand, requires acts of contortion that I've yet to master, not to mention excessive beans and garlic prior to the performance.

Does one need any special parts delivered for a trombone to be capable of such feats?

 

[Snark218]

OK, how exactly can you live next to these people, interact with them daily, and not understand this simple point:

They do not care about facts!

Facts will never change their minds. You can live stream every hand-counted ballot, and they will just invent new justifications to believe what they want. Nothing you can show them will ever change their minds.

They did not arrive at their conclusion due to a lack of facts. They arrived at their conclusion due to motivated reasoning, a desire to believe that everyone secretly agrees with them. They do not want to believe that their policies are unpopular; therefore, they believe that the elections that prove this were rigged.

Btw I do understand the point without needing the bold line above

The whole idea is to keep calm so they don't get triggered & show up with a firearm at your doorstep & do something stupid

* I would have defended myself with the Ars YubiKey, but I gave that away to a fellow arsian as a gift

What, in the last several years, makes you think anything you might personally do to validate their insanity is enough to outweigh the drumbeats of saturation-volume propaganda urging them forward to civil violence?

 

[ProdSlash]

You think conservatives give a shit about democracy?

Yes, you've been in a coma these past 6 years.

Conservatives decided to kill democracy on August 8, 1974.

 

[Snark218]

You think conservatives give a shit about democracy?

Yes, you've been in a coma these past 6 years.

Conservatives decided to kill democracy on August 8, 1974.

July 4th, 1776, some might argue, and I have trouble contradicting them given the three fifths compromise, slavery, segregation, and the restriction of the voter franchise.

 

[daveishereagain]

He says Twitter banning the person who tried to stage a coup was 'morally wrong' is all ya need ta know boys and girls. The lines have never been clearer.
Wise up, fan bois.

 

[monsterscraponme]

Until we're consistently shown otherwise, this should be seen as nothing more than damage control caused by a barrage of self-inflicted wounds that are all on Musk.

Advertising isn't important! (looks at financials). Oh wait, oh crap, yes it is. Next tweet: eh, not really that important, but we promise this is a place you want to advertise on!

Banning harmful accounts is wrong. We need truly free speech! (sees the public image of an already shaky company continue to rot at a rapid pace). Oh wait, maybe we'll think on that.

We need to monetize users. (vomits out some random number). Okay, not monetize that much.

You may be able to become president by running purely off the fumes and emotions of your fanbase, but that's not really going to work in a business where you need a large number of the people who have no time for your shit.

He clearly doesn't know what he's doing. The only remote hope I have for this turning positive is that his love for money and "winning" could maybe steer him into a direction where rational policies and decisions are preferred. And he has to do that while consumers and advertisers have him under a microscope for his bizarre and unpredictable behavior.