Amid Twitter buyout, Musk says free speech is simply "that which matches the law."
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Musk is spread too thin now. Should not have squandered billions on this stupid platform that people shouldn't even use because like all of the other "social media" platforms, it is inevitably compromised by thought police who think they hold a higher moral standard. He should stay focused on Tesla & Space X. It might be his downfall.
You're half right. The downfall part, I mean.
But a lot of the "inevitably compromised by thought police who think they hold a higher moral standard"? They *do* have the moral high ground.
Nazis are evil. I don't say that about much -- a lot of what's called evil is actually just callous indifference, but "Jews will not replace us" isn't a position where there's compromise to be had. If we split the difference between genocide and civil rights, we end up at mere murder. Stochastic terrorism is a thing -- remember the pizza place the guy literally shot, because people lied about there being a satanic pedophile ring operation?
Moderating slurs and lies off your platform is a pretty reasonable thing to do -- because, if you haven't ever visited 4chan or 8kun, you should.* They're what you end up with "it isn't illegal, so we won't moderate it" as your moderation police.
*You really should. Go visit 4chan at least once, then come back and say 'Yeah, Twitter should be more like those folks." That's bonkers. Like, spend... twenty minutes, visit a few different threads. Hell, go post something supportive of gay or trans rights anonymously, then come back and see the kind of replies that gets when there's no moderator.
It's almost a rule of thumb that cultural conservatives pine for a time period 40-60 years before present - a time when they were either sheltered children or just before their birth. It's the time period when they were too young and too ignorant to know about things like Jim Crow and the House Un-American Activities Committee and redlining and Henry Kissinger and so on. Of course it's the time they think was simple and idyllic and full of promise, because they had no concept of the complexity of the world.
And they managed to isolate themselves from the complexity of the world for long enough that they now feel entitled to a lack of it.
Yeah, that's basically the point Jon Stewart makes. He has Conservative talking heads mention when they think America was at its peak, then points out that they were literally children at the time and brings in someone who was an adult (or at least old enough to be aware) to talk about what living in that time was like.
And to a degree, I can see how that happens. What I truly don't understand is the inability to recognize that their childhood view of the time period is simply inaccurate. You can present them all of the historical information that you want and they'll just dig their heels in. Hell, they'll call your information "revisionism" just because it doesn't match their personal experience of the time. It's so frustrating. I don't get how someone can go through life like that without having the revelation that they're an ignoramus.
Pick any time period people pine for and plenty of things sucked then just like they suck now. They just sucked in different ways.
Actually, I'd fairly confidently say that they probably sucked more than they do now, just not in ways that affected the person pining for it. And more secretly (or rather, quietly, because no one really cared).
Yeah... as hard as it may be to believe right now, this is arguably the best time to be alive in human history.
Musk is spread too thin now. Should not have squandered billions on this stupid platform that people shouldn't even use because like all of the other "social media" platforms, it is inevitably compromised by thought police who think they hold a higher moral standard. He should stay focused on Tesla & Space X. It might be his downfall.
You're half right. The downfall part, I mean.
But a lot of the "inevitably compromised by thought police who think they hold a higher moral standard"? They *do* have the moral high ground.
Nazis are evil. I don't say that about much -- a lot of what's called evil is actually just callous indifference, but "Jews will not replace us" isn't a position where there's compromise to be had. If we split the difference between genocide and civil rights, we end up at mere murder. Stochastic terrorism is a thing -- remember the pizza place the guy literally shot, because people lied about there being a satanic pedophile ring operation?
Moderating slurs and lies off your platform is a pretty reasonable thing to do -- because, if you haven't ever visited 4chan or 8kun, you should.* They're what you end up with "it isn't illegal, so we won't moderate it" as your moderation police.
*You really should. Go visit 4chan at least once, then come back and say 'Yeah, Twitter should be more like those folks." That's bonkers. Like, spend... twenty minutes, visit a few different threads. Hell, go post something supportive of gay or trans rights anonymously, then come back and see the kind of replies that gets when there's no moderator.
I don't use any of them and never will. I talk to people I actually know. I love starting arguments --in real life, with people I know, in a friendly spirit. This spirit has been banished online.
My neighbor is a full-fledged red-hat, and chose to tell me "You Democrats are destroying the country" after I said "Good morning" to him while walking my kid to school. Emphasis: he chose to engage while my kid was with me.
I said "We can disagree without being assholes. Or, at least, I can."
I will continue to say good morning to him, while knowing it is quite possible I will wind up elbow-hooking him.
It's almost a rule of thumb that cultural conservatives pine for a time period 40-60 years before present - a time when they were either sheltered children or just before their birth. It's the time period when they were too young and too ignorant to know about things like Jim Crow and the House Un-American Activities Committee and redlining and Henry Kissinger and so on. Of course it's the time they think was simple and idyllic and full of promise, because they had no concept of the complexity of the world.
And they managed to isolate themselves from the complexity of the world for long enough that they now feel entitled to a lack of it.
Yeah, that's basically the point Jon Stewart makes. He has Conservative talking heads mention when they think America was at its peak, then points out that they were literally children at the time and brings in someone who was an adult (or at least old enough to be aware) to talk about what living in that time was like.
And to a degree, I can see how that happens. What I truly don't understand is the inability to recognize that their childhood view of the time period is simply inaccurate. You can present them all of the historical information that you want and they'll just dig their heels in. Hell, they'll call your information "revisionism" just because it doesn't match their personal experience of the time. It's so frustrating. I don't get how someone can go through life like that without having the revelation that they're an ignoramus.
Pick any time period people pine for and plenty of things sucked then just like they suck now. They just sucked in different ways.
Actually, I'd fairly confidently say that they probably sucked more than they do now, just not in ways that affected the person pining for it. And more secretly (or rather, quietly, because no one really cared).
Yeah... as hard as it may be to believe right now, this is arguably the best time to be alive in human history.
Especially if you're a woman, LGBTQ person, or member of a minority ethnic group. Even with the many problems and regressions there's been incredibly few times in history where these groups have been as free as they are now. Which is why we're seeing such a vicious white/far-right backlash.
* At least in developed countries, developing countries are all over the place in these aspects.
It's an awesome policy if you're a billionaire with near-infinite resources and an army of sycophants, not so great if, say, you're a trans person who has to constantly justify your existence to two million "debate me bro" alt-righters.
If they see the '50s as so great, then why don't they want to return to the America-greatening 30% corporate and 42% tax on the 1%, hmmm?Yep, and that's why all the "non-woke" Twitter wannabes will always be in distant second place or worse. Prominent conservatives like Ted Cruz routinely used to post to Twitter about how they were gonna leave Twitter to go to Parler. Then never did...I didn't read through every comment, sorry if this point has been made already.
Without excusing all the bad things Elon Musk has done, I'd like to posit the following scenarios:
How would a smart person go about making Twitter grow? One path would be to open the platform to trolls and scammers, and peddlers of woo by refusing to moderate. Would that really work? Has it worked anywhere, including truly extremist sites?
Another way would be to get people foaming at the mouth by pretending that Twitter will radically change its policies. Encourage the fighting by dropping hints that a certain former President will soon be back. Give vague reassurances to their stoke their fears.
Remember that episode of South Park where the Devil fought Jesus? I'm looking for Elon to exit Twitter with several $100M in profits in the next year or two. After making essentially no changes at all to their moderation policies.
1. No. Because all decent people leave or never join and then the trolls, ect, have no one left to troll.
It's almost like "woke" is a made up boogeyman that really means "people now acknowledge people we don't like as valid, and we get called out when we say something offensive". If it were really the plague they claim it is, they wouldn't have a choice in leaving- they'd be kicked off. After all, that's what they keep saying isn't it? That the "woke left" is banning them left and right and "cancelling" them? And yet, they're still on Twitter complaining about it...
These people have spent all of America’s history being able to say whatever they want, about anything, to anyone, whenever they want.
Anything less than that is a horrible “woke” affront to everything they hold dear…
Bingo. They've used their social power to silence people for generations, and now they're scared because they don't hold the social power anymore. Or at least, they no longer have a monopoly on it.
Another obvious tell is how many Conservatives reference the 50s as America's "Golden Age". Notably, a time when most of them were children (Jon Stewart has a funny bit about that), and a time when you very much could be arrested and rounded up for saying the wrong things or simply not acting the right way. Though, in my experience, few of these people have even heard of the House Un-American Activities Committee. They never think about what was happening during the Red Scare when people were outed as "Commies" because it didn't and wouldn't happen to them. It only happened to people they didn't like, so it was fine. Or just as bad, it wasn't even on their radar because they have a bubble of awareness approximately 10 ft wide.
Once again, it's just projection. They're scared of these things because of what they would do if they had the power and they can't comprehend that other people aren't the same way. They see it as fundamental human nature.
Yes, "counterfactual" certainly accurately describes your fantasy there.This is a very convenient stance for him to take... basically what he is saying is "In the US I will let anyone Tweet anything they want, because if that isn't what the people wanted the laws would be different!" I am sure it has nothing to do with the SEC... what he is also saying is "In China, where free-speech isn't a thing, I can restrict what people say on Twitter because if the people of China wanted it any other way they would vote to make it so!" I am sure it has nothing to do with Tesla plant's in China that need to continue to operate and can't do so if China decides what Musk allows and says is inconvenient for them. Hypocrisy at it's finest under the guise of the enlightened tech bro.
The law in every country is a lower bound on what appears on Twitter (companies cannot really fight governments - eventually governments have the power to cut them off at the ISP level - see the threats to Telegram in a democracy like Germany). I think what Musk is acknowleding is that Twitter cannot lower that bound but he doesn't want to voluntarily increase it by filtering more posts or users based on commercial reasons, public policy, thread of consumer boycotts etc.
So he wants the law to be a hard constraint: anything that's not illegal can be posted.
I am not sure this is desirable or feasible but it surely is simple and it's much easier for a privately-held firm to implement than a publicly traded firm.
Here's the thing: Tons of stuff that is terrible isn't illegal. And if you have a site where that terrible stuff is being posted day in and day out, most people are no longer going to want to go to that site. As I've said multiple times on this topic: You either choose to make your site a welcoming place for diverse people including marginalized groups and tell the Nazis they are not welcome, or you make your site a welcoming place for the Nazis, and have them tell everyone else to fuck off.
The counterfactual for this is that Twitter and many other social media outlets grew via incredibly light moderation and only instituted heavy moderation once they became mature, low-growth companies.
The focus on moderation only became a burning issue society-wide after Trump successfully used social media to get elected.
My neighbor is a full-fledged red-hat, and chose to tell me "You Democrats are destroying the country" after I said "Good morning" to him while walking my kid to school. Emphasis: he chose to engage while my kid was with me.
I said "We can disagree without being assholes. Or, at least, I can."
I will continue to say good morning to him, while knowing it is quite possible I will wind up elbow-hooking him.
I can't even. What the fuck does "destroying the country" even mean? How fucking fragile do you think the USA is if it's being "destroyed" by wind turbines and parental leave and anti-discrimination laws, or any of the 1,000 things that liberal/Democrats support?
Are your gay neighbors destroying the country because they cook meth in the garage and sacrifice virgins in the back yard, or because they got married?
I would genuinely like to know that guy's answer. WTF was done to you buddy? Did somebody take a Greenpeace flag, break into your house and sodomize you with the flagpole? Or are you just having a panic attack cause that's what Fucker Carlson told you is gonna happen?
Which televangelist said that Katrina was God’s wrath over support for gays? Some people actually believe that garbage.My neighbor is a full-fledged red-hat, and chose to tell me "You Democrats are destroying the country" after I said "Good morning" to him while walking my kid to school. Emphasis: he chose to engage while my kid was with me.
I said "We can disagree without being assholes. Or, at least, I can."
I will continue to say good morning to him, while knowing it is quite possible I will wind up elbow-hooking him.
I can't even. What the fuck does "destroying the country" even mean? How fucking fragile do you think the USA is if it's being "destroyed" by wind turbines and parental leave and anti-discrimination laws, or any of the 1,000 things that liberal/Democrats support?
Are your gay neighbors destroying the country because they cook meth in the garage and sacrifice virgins in the back yard, or because they got married?
I would genuinely like to know that guy's answer. WTF was done to you buddy? Did somebody take a Greenpeace flag, break into your house and sodomize you with the flagpole? Or are you just having a panic attack cause that's what Fucker Carlson told you is gonna happen?
Our govt is literally controlled by oligarchs like Musk. Our laws are pre-written by cadres of corporate lawyers who then hand them directly to lawmakers to pass. The US govt is mostly, if not wholly, captured by a kleptocracy. All this points to a major flaw in Musk's reasoning that if people want more censorship they will pass laws to enforce it. He knows better.
It's definitely the best time to be alive regardless of your identity. Never before have we had any real prospect of extending our lifespans beyond the fourscore and ten.. basically as long as we don't kill ourselves off, the future is incomparably more desirable than the present or past in the most fundamental sense.
Yeah, that's basically the point Jon Stewart makes. He has Conservative talking heads mention when they think America was at its peak, then points out that they were literally children at the time and brings in someone who was an adult (or at least old enough to be aware) to talk about what living in that time was like.
And to a degree, I can see how that happens. What I truly don't understand is the inability to recognize that their childhood view of the time period is simply inaccurate. You can present them all of the historical information that you want and they'll just dig their heels in. Hell, they'll call your information "revisionism" just because it doesn't match their personal experience of the time. It's so frustrating. I don't get how someone can go through life like that without having the revelation that they're an ignoramus.
Pick any time period people pine for and plenty of things sucked then just like they suck now. They just sucked in different ways.
Actually, I'd fairly confidently say that they probably sucked more than they do now, just not in ways that affected the person pining for it. And more secretly (or rather, quietly, because no one really cared).
Yeah... as hard as it may be to believe right now, this is arguably the best time to be alive in human history.
Especially if you're a woman, LGBTQ person, or member of a minority ethnic group. Even with the many problems and regressions there's been incredibly few times in history where these groups have been as free as they are now. Which is why we're seeing such a vicious white/far-right backlash.
* At least in developed countries, developing countries are all over the place in these aspects.
It's definitely the best time to be alive regardless of your identity. Never before have we had any real prospect of extending our lifespans beyond the fourscore and ten.. basically as long as we don't kill ourselves off, the future is incomparably more desirable than the present or past in the most fundamental sense.
Wasn't the whole reason the whole EU backed it was because he was known to be corrupt and pro-Burisma and hindering the investigation, so removing him was what Burisma did not want?Especially when a few weeks later, Joe Biden reached out to then-Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko asking him to remove the prosecutor that was involved in the Burisma investigation.
I love how you try to frame this as something Joe did by himself, instead of it being a Governmental decision that had the backing of the entire EU behind it.
Which category/thing that Twitter moderates today is the most overreaching in your view? Please be specific.[/quote:1ug2hl9v said:The worst is blanket bans on supporting designated dangerous individuals or organizations. It's a politically driven process that excuses US warcrimes but punishes support for non-aligned movements.
Groups such as? ISIS?
The rule is selectively used against pro-Palestinian groups, among many others.
This began with your statement that Twitter is increasing the number of things it moderates.
Now you're complaining it doesn't moderate enough.
And while that sounds amazing to someone who is dumb, Truth Social is estimated to have barely more than a half million daily active users. Twitter has more than 200 million DAUs as of Q4 of last year with TikTok at around 50 million in the US alone.In another tweet after completing his deal with the Twitter board, Musk wrote that "Truth Social is currently beating Twitter & TikTok on the Apple Store,"
Guy who canceled a customer's Tesla order because "he was rude" has thoughts on censorship at a private non-governmental business.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... rs-model-x
This is the flimsiest thing I have ever seen as an argument.
If I am to take this seriously, you expect that something this trifling is useful in arguing Elon Musk is hypocritical about free speech?
Wasn't the whole reason the whole EU backed it was because he was known to be corrupt and pro-Burisma and hindering the investigation, so removing him was what Burisma did not want?Especially when a few weeks later, Joe Biden reached out to then-Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko asking him to remove the prosecutor that was involved in the Burisma investigation.
I love how you try to frame this as something Joe did by himself, instead of it being a Governmental decision that had the backing of the entire EU behind it.
Wasn't Parler at the top of the downloads for a day or two way back? Looks like yes: https://fortune.com/2020/11/09/parler-c ... oaded-app/And while that sounds amazing to someone who is dumb, Truth Social is estimated to have barely more than a half million daily active users. Twitter has more than 200 million DAUs as of Q4 of last year with TikTok at around 50 million in the US alone.In another tweet after completing his deal with the Twitter board, Musk wrote that "Truth Social is currently beating Twitter & TikTok on the Apple Store,"
Well... yeah.
Most anyone who wants to use Twitter or TikTok already has it. Almost all daily downloads will be due to device repacements.
Truth Social downloads are going to be mostly interested-but-don't-have-it downloads.
Measuring the usefulness of a site based on its mobile app downloads is measuring something useless.
Wasn't Parler at the top of the downloads for a day or two way back? Looks like yes: https://fortune.com/2020/11/09/parler-c ... oaded-app/And while that sounds amazing to someone who is dumb, Truth Social is estimated to have barely more than a half million daily active users. Twitter has more than 200 million DAUs as of Q4 of last year with TikTok at around 50 million in the US alone.In another tweet after completing his deal with the Twitter board, Musk wrote that "Truth Social is currently beating Twitter & TikTok on the Apple Store,"
Well... yeah.
Most anyone who wants to use Twitter or TikTok already has it. Almost all daily downloads will be due to device repacements.
Truth Social downloads are going to be mostly interested-but-don't-have-it downloads.
Measuring the usefulness of a site based on its mobile app downloads is measuring something useless.
And how many active users does it have now?
Wasn't Parler at the top of the downloads for a day or two way back? Looks like yes: https://fortune.com/2020/11/09/parler-c ... oaded-app/And while that sounds amazing to someone who is dumb, Truth Social is estimated to have barely more than a half million daily active users. Twitter has more than 200 million DAUs as of Q4 of last year with TikTok at around 50 million in the US alone.In another tweet after completing his deal with the Twitter board, Musk wrote that "Truth Social is currently beating Twitter & TikTok on the Apple Store,"
Well... yeah.
Most anyone who wants to use Twitter or TikTok already has it. Almost all daily downloads will be due to device repacements.
Truth Social downloads are going to be mostly interested-but-don't-have-it downloads.
Measuring the usefulness of a site based on its mobile app downloads is measuring something useless.
And how many active users does it have now?
Dozens.
Does Musk buying Twitter allow him to side-step the SEC? Since he owns it, are "his" tweets simply "his speech" from "his megaphone ?"
If I am to take this seriously, you expect that something this trifling is useful in arguing Elon Musk is hypocritical about free speech?
I’ve never stopped a union vote nor removed a union. UAW abandoned this factory. Tesla arrived & gave people back their jobs. They haven’t forgotten UAW betrayed them. That’s why UAW can’t even get people to attend a free BBQ, let alone enough sigs for a vote.
This Tweet aged well...
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/999385249720057856
I’ve never stopped a union vote nor removed a union. UAW abandoned this factory. Tesla arrived & gave people back their jobs. They haven’t forgotten UAW betrayed them. That’s why UAW can’t even get people to attend a free BBQ, let alone enough sigs for a vote.
everyone needs to calm down. or else all your 'inalienable rights' will be forfeited in absentia (or something like that?), and without your implied permission........
;-))
/S
democracy isn't going to simply go up in smoke, as fragile as truths seem to be held by many, even peace loving asshats rely upon it for hubris and easy targets.
He has been studying Donald Trumps playbook.
I sadly believe that he'll run for President in 2024...
My neighbor is a full-fledged red-hat, and chose to tell me "You Democrats are destroying the country" after I said "Good morning" to him while walking my kid to school. Emphasis: he chose to engage while my kid was with me.
I said "We can disagree without being assholes. Or, at least, I can."
I will continue to say good morning to him, while knowing it is quite possible I will wind up elbow-hooking him.
I can't even. What the fuck does "destroying the country" even mean? How fucking fragile do you think the USA is if it's being "destroyed" by wind turbines and parental leave and anti-discrimination laws, or any of the 1,000 things that liberal/Democrats support?
Are your gay neighbors destroying the country because they cook meth in the garage and sacrifice virgins in the back yard, or because they got married?
I would genuinely like to know that guy's answer. WTF was done to you buddy? Did somebody take a Greenpeace flag, break into your house and sodomize you with the flagpole? Or are you just having a panic attack cause that's what Fucker Carlson told you is gonna happen?
Does Musk buying Twitter allow him to side-step the SEC? Since he owns it, are "his" tweets simply "his speech" from "his megaphone ?"
The problem is, my optimistic guess is that we have a few decades like that left before we enter full-blown climate disaster. And that's my optimistic guess: I've had to sedate my inner pessimist since the Russian invasion of Ukraine started.It's almost a rule of thumb that cultural conservatives pine for a time period 40-60 years before present - a time when they were either sheltered children or just before their birth. It's the time period when they were too young and too ignorant to know about things like Jim Crow and the House Un-American Activities Committee and redlining and Henry Kissinger and so on. Of course it's the time they think was simple and idyllic and full of promise, because they had no concept of the complexity of the world.
And they managed to isolate themselves from the complexity of the world for long enough that they now feel entitled to a lack of it.
Yeah, that's basically the point Jon Stewart makes. He has Conservative talking heads mention when they think America was at its peak, then points out that they were literally children at the time and brings in someone who was an adult (or at least old enough to be aware) to talk about what living in that time was like.
And to a degree, I can see how that happens. What I truly don't understand is the inability to recognize that their childhood view of the time period is simply inaccurate. You can present them all of the historical information that you want and they'll just dig their heels in. Hell, they'll call your information "revisionism" just because it doesn't match their personal experience of the time. It's so frustrating. I don't get how someone can go through life like that without having the revelation that they're an ignoramus.
Pick any time period people pine for and plenty of things sucked then just like they suck now. They just sucked in different ways.
Actually, I'd fairly confidently say that they probably sucked more than they do now, just not in ways that affected the person pining for it. And more secretly (or rather, quietly, because no one really cared).
Yeah... as hard as it may be to believe right now, this is arguably the best time to be alive in human history.
If they see the '50s as so great, then why don't they want to return to the America-greatening 30% corporate and 42% tax on the 1%, hmmm?
Elon Musk":2czcau5s said:If people want less free speech, they will ask government to pass laws to that effect. Therefore, going beyond the law is contrary to the will of the people.