Florida’s new surgeon general skeptical of vaccines, opposes masks

Ladapo signed the Great Barrington Declaration and suggests embracing "the reality of viral spread."

Read the whole story

 

[GreyAreaUK]

Right... it was Newsom and Pelosi that made it political. I'm not even from the US and I know that. Nice try.

As for your stance on vaccines - if you truly hold this view, then you don't understand the nature of vaccinations and how they provide maximum protection.

Vaccines work best, when there's a very large proportion of the population vaccinated. There will always be those that legitimately cannot get vaccinated (eg. they're allergic to an ingredient, they have compromised immunity, etc.) - but 15-20% of the population unvaccinated (let alone the figure of around 40% which I've seen as 'vaccine hesitant' in the USA) is not enough to obtain the maximum benefit to society.

And that's really the key - society. We all live in a society, and need to pull our weight and contribute - part of this is to pay taxes, follow the law and not be vigilantes and, yes, vaccinate if at all possible.

This.

I'm increasingly of the opinion that if you're not prepared to help society when it needs you*, then maybe you should no longer be allowed all of the benefits of that society.

Or to put it bluntly: if you behave like a selfish plague rat, be prepared to be treated like one.




*assuming you are able to, naturally.

 

[wk_]

There are studies suggesting that variants come from the vaccinated population because the engineered immunity isn't as agile as the one created naturally.

And humans went extint due to the deadly variants of measles and polio that emerged because of the high number of vaccinated people againt those diseases.


Oh .... wait, we're still here.

Yesterday I saw an antivaxxer comment lamenting "how polio is not mutating, and corona is mutating? Something's fishy here!". The response was that in 2019* there was less than 200 cases of polio in the entire world; 200 cases of corona happened in any town with the population of 2000.

*) could not find data for 2020

 

[Cognac]

...the Dems made it nearly impossible to exist without it...

...ultra liberal...

Tell me you're anti-vax without telling me you're anti-vax.

I'm not antivax. I'm vaccinated. I'm one of those "I take care of me, therefore I'm vaccinated, but won't judge others on their choice for their bodies." I've witnessed one person die from getting the J&J vaccine. The rate blood clotting issues it has so I don't judge others for their choice not to. I don't tell others what to do and don't expect politicians to tell other what's to do especially. Leave that to medical professionals. The minute this thing went political, thanks to Gavin Newsom and Pelosi is when people distrusted it.

Sounds very similar to FYGM.

Also, you know what the medical professionals are saying? Get Vaccinated. Do you know why the government has to issue mandates and tell people to do what the medical professionals are saying they should do? Because shitheads like you won't do unless they're just about forced to.

Your freedom to be unvaccinated ends when it affects my freedom to be healthy.

 

[balthazarr]

There are studies suggesting that variants come from the vaccinated population because the engineered immunity isn't as agile as the one created naturally.

And humans went extint due to the deadly variants of measles and polio that emerged because of the high number of vaccinated people againt those diseases.


Oh .... wait, we're still here.

Yesterday I saw an antivaxxer comment lamenting "how polio is not mutating, and corona is mutating? Something's fishy here!". The response was that in 2019* there was less than 200 cases of polio in the entire world; 200 cases of corona happened in any town with the population of 2000.

*) could not find data for 2020

I've said this in another thread on here in the last day or so - the mental gymnastics some of these anti-vaxxers go through to justify their position would be impressive if it weren't indicative of a serious deficiency.

Like, seriously, they seem to do and believe almost anything (except for the actual facts and truth, of course) to justify their unjustifiable position.

 

[PurpleChair]

Isn't Florida a popular state to retire in? If so, then he can suggest not making policy out of fear - fine. However, all those retirees who need new hips / heart surgery / new knees / cataract fixes will need to wait for those surgeries because all hospitals will be filled with COVID-19 patients, they might grumble a bit, maybe?

It's not fear, man. You're a Republican, so let's talk money.
If your hospitals shut down with COVID-19 patients, they cannot make money on dicky hip fixes. If you get everyone vaccinated, your hospitals can make money again and they will love you!

Did that work? Or do you assholes actually make more money on COVID-19 patients? Is that it?

 

[GreyAreaUK]

I've said this in another thread on here in the last day or so - the mental gymnastics some of these anti-vaxxers go through to justify their position would be impressive if it weren't indicative of a serious deficiency.

Like, seriously, they seem to do and believe almost anything (except for the actual facts and truth, of course) to justify their unjustifiable position.

And it's always, always someone else's fault when the facts blow up in their faces.

If I read correctly, some of these wingnuts are now claiming that their being driving to an anti-vax stance was some sort of far-left plot to get them killed.

This is feeling more and more like that Futurama episode where everyone on Earth was made stupid.

 

[Technofox]

Can we just build a wall around Florida and have them pay for it?

/s ;-)

 

[Deleted member 388703]

I've said this in another thread on here in the last day or so - the mental gymnastics some of these anti-vaxxers go through to justify their position would be impressive if it weren't indicative of a serious deficiency.

Like, seriously, they seem to do and believe almost anything (except for the actual facts and truth, of course) to justify their unjustifiable position.

And it's always, always someone else's fault when the facts blow up in their faces.

If I read correctly, some of these wingnuts are now claiming that their being driving to an anti-vax stance was some sort of far-left plot to get them killed.

This is feeling more and more like that Futurama episode where everyone on Earth was made stupid.

The red caps are worn to cover up the brain slugs.

 

[PurpleChair]

Right... it was Newsom and Pelosi that made it political. I'm not even from the US and I know that. Nice try.

As for your stance on vaccines - if you truly hold this view, then you don't understand the nature of vaccinations and how they provide maximum protection.

Vaccines work best, when there's a very large proportion of the population vaccinated. There will always be those that legitimately cannot get vaccinated (eg. they're allergic to an ingredient, they have compromised immunity, etc.) - but 15-20% of the population unvaccinated (let alone the figure of around 40% which I've seen as 'vaccine hesitant' in the USA) is not enough to obtain the maximum benefit to society.

And that's really the key - society. We all live in a society, and need to pull our weight and contribute - part of this is to pay taxes, follow the law and not be vigilantes and, yes, vaccinate if at all possible.

This.

I'm increasingly of the opinion that if you're not prepared to help society when it needs you*, then maybe you should no longer be allowed all of the benefits of that society.

Or to put it bluntly: if you behave like a selfish plague rat, be prepared to be treated like one.




*assuming you are able to, naturally.

I always love watching those "I'm building a cabin in the woods and becoming completely self sufficient!" people still use the internet, mobile phones, roads, doctors, supermarkets, hardware stores. GUN SHOPS. All of which are supplied by, you know, logistics? Which sources products from around the entire globe! Yeah, you're very off-grid. Good for you.

Oh, and they sell their "I don't wanne be part of society anymore" story to Netflix. Oh, the irony.

 

[balthazarr]

...
If I read correctly, some of these wingnuts are now claiming that their being driving to an anti-vax stance was some sort of far-left plot to get them killed. ...

Yeah, someone posted a link to a Brietbart article that basically made that point.

GOOD. It might sway some of the nuttier nut jobs to 'own the libruls' because what the libruls really want is for us not to get vaccinated and die, even though they're trying to encourage everyone to vaccinate. *mental gymnastics*

 

[GreyAreaUK]

...
If I read correctly, some of these wingnuts are now claiming that their being driving to an anti-vax stance was some sort of far-left plot to get them killed. ...

Yeah, someone posted a link to a Brietbart article that basically made that point.

GOOD. It might sway some of the nuttier nut jobs to 'own the libruls' because what the libruls really want is for us not to get vaccinated and die, even though they're trying to encourage everyone to vaccinate. *mental gymnastics*

Yep, fair point. I don't actually care what reason they use for justifying getting vaccinated, just so long as they do. I'd really like life to return to some semblance of normality before I die.

(For the record, early 50's and no immediately life-threatening conditions that I'm aware of)

 

[Runestone]

Ah, a disciple of Dr Beetroot
https://globalhealth.duke.edu/news/sout ... ded-belief

 

[Emmanuel Deloget]

Times like this where I wish that Bugs Bunny skit where he saws Florida and it floats away were possible.

And give Texas back to Mexico. And France can have all the Midwest states back they sold to us in 1803.

Oh mon Dieu non ! We sold'em for a reason !

 

[Jiggers]

As a lawyer DickSantos knows how to twist words

"The reality of viral spread" is just a fancy way to say, "we have to keep our tourist bars, restaurants, themeparks, beaches, open for business with no pesky masks or acknowledging the current 100% full ER status of most FL hospitals to scare away tourists. We need our profits, the old, immuno-surpressed and children can just die, we don't give a flying fuck about them. Also no one but Q-diots will vote for me now, so this is for them and to keep Faux News splashing my picture up every week."

 

[balthazarr]

Ah, a disciple of Dr Beetroot
https://globalhealth.duke.edu/news/sout ... ded-belief

Reading that, I don't know whether to be sad, horrified, angry... or some odd combination of all of the above and more.

It's so ludicrous that it sounds like fiction but, as they say, truth is stranger (and more fucked up) than fiction.

 

[BasP]

One sided article. I'm here in Jacksonville, FL and drove by Ascention St Vincent hospital and only saw 4 cars by the hospital ER. Didn't seem all that packed. Now, I am vaccinated finally. Decided to get it after the Dems made it nearly impossible to exist without it in California and New York since I travel for work. Still doesn't fit the litmus test of what articles I'm seeing.

You think ER patients travel to the ER and park their cars there?

 

[Yhbv24]

Remember when, not long ago, conservatives were complaining about non-existent "death panels"? Turns out they now exist, and they created them.

 

[Haas Bioroid]

Times like this where I wish that Bugs Bunny skit where he saws Florida and it floats away were possible.

And give Texas back to Mexico. And France can have all the Midwest states back they sold to us in 1803.

Oh mon Dieu non ! We sold'em for a reason !

I suggest we take back the land only if they keep the people.

 

[Darrellkh]

Sitting in the wait line at a drive-through for a popular fast food franchise, in a large, Floridian metropolitan area, I focus on the bumper sticker on the BMW SUV in front of me, and it says, "Ron DeSantis is the greatest ever governor of Florida."

The ultra-right minions express their thoughts in bumper stickers. When those on the left do that, they often get their car vandalized, down here. But when those on the extreme right do it, nobody does or says anything about it. Odd, how that works.

I've only lived down here 23 years, but Ron DeSantis is - by impartial standards - quite possibly the worst governor Florida has had, in that time. He ignores science so he can bleat about freedom (without responsibility) to the Trump koolaid-drinkers.

 

[tangible]

I used to love Carl Hiaasen’s satirical novels about the grotesque denizens of Florida. As with so much of modern life, reality has caught up to, and surpassed, these caricatures.

It’s become increasingly clear that ignorance and bigotry are heavier than enlightenment, and therefore sink to the bottom of the country. This extremely scientific theory fully explains Florida, Texas, Alabama, Mississippi, etc.

 

[Deleted member 92645]

Well it is Florida ... he is another "Florida Man" I suppose.

Sheesh!

That's Dr. Florida man, please!

 

[Embattle]

So a picture of him followed by the words Douchebag would probably of been enough ;-)

 

[BradTheGeek]

Can we just cut off Flori-duh and Howdy Arabia? Give anyone that wants to flee a one time voucher to move - they can trade with some other idiots from corn states that want to live there 1 to 1.

 

[r0twhylr]

One sided article. I'm here in Jacksonville, FL and drove by Ascention St Vincent hospital and only saw 4 cars by the hospital ER. Didn't seem all that packed. Now, I am vaccinated finally. Decided to get it after the Dems made it nearly impossible to exist without it in California and New York since I travel for work. Still doesn't fit the litmus test of what articles I'm seeing.

First tip: The ER isn't the ICU.
Second tip: You have to actually go inside to see how busy it is. This isn't a 7-11 where everyone is just parked outside for five minutes while they run inside.

 

[GreyAreaUK]

...the Dems made it nearly impossible to exist without it...

...ultra liberal...

Tell me you're anti-vax without telling me you're anti-vax.

I'm not antivax. I'm vaccinated.

You basically admitted you only got vaccinated because 'the Dems' forced you to.

I also frankly doubt you've witnessed anyone dying as a result of the vaccine.

Nice to call me a liar, but her name was Nanci. Lived in Upland, CA. I have no reason to lie to anyone. Does it matter why I got vacced? I'm not here to be the moral police on reasoning. I got it, it's done.

And strangely I still don't believe you.

To expand on that: the number of deaths reported as a result of the J&J is roughly 88. The population of the US is (rounded down) 350M. So the odds of you knowing one of those 88 is, roughly, 0.000025%

 

[gulthaw]

Well, let’s hope all these Florida Republican voters die soon.

Republicans don't win elections in Florida, and haven't in a very long time.

The problem is structural. Our system allows states to define electoral standards to such an extent, that FL Republicans can basically define any vote against them as "invalid."

The surprise isn't that they're in power in that swamp nightmare. It's that they haven't (yet) claimed to be getting 100% of the vote.

Ron Desantis is quite popular here in Jacksonville. I've talked to a few locals and he seems like the guy they want here. Do you count the ballot box? Do you know every single voter? Now maybe ultra liberal Miami/Dade county myifht apply to your logic but Florida has more than that dump down there.

And that's the reason why in the last years I've grown to stop believing in democracy.

You just cannot deal with people voting against themselves, and there are too many people who just does that.
The only solution would be to teach people critical thinking etc. But some take that as an insult.

I'm done, I will only believe in an enlightened dictatorship where either AIs or aliens are in control. Humans have demonstrated they are too stupid to be trusted with the process.

See also: climate change

 

[bigsnake499]

"Embracing "the reality of viral spread" to achieve herd immunity" in a state with lots of old & unhealthy people... Yeah that's gonna go just great...

Except our old people, the ones that did not succumb last year, are 85% vaccinated. It's the younger idiots that are not vaccinated.

 

[stehsegler]

I mean, Europe achieved herd immunity against the plague without the help of vaccine, amiright?

Not herd immunity. It's estimated the plague killed about 25 million people or about half of Europe's population at the time. The vast majority of people survived because they either quarantined themselves and waited till everyone around them that was sick had died or if they could afford it moved to an area wasn't densely populated.

It took nearly 300 years for Europes population to reach the numbers from before the plague.

 

[technofiler]

Obviously, the solution would be to empower the Federal government to dismiss state governors at will, but that wouldn't have worked out well while Trump was President.

How does one go about ensuring that only sane people rise to elected office?

One way would be by having a better-educated electorate.

1. Place limits on gerrymandering districts. Current gerrymandered districts make most races uncompetitive and lock in one party. When one party is a lock, you tend to get less centrist candidates.

2. Embrace ranked choice voting. Again this tends to favor more centrist candidates at the expense of extremists. The winner take all system tends to favor a candidate who excites the extreme base and a lot of people vote against the other guy. You tend to not really vote for a candidate you believe in and get much more blind party loyalty. Our primary system in the US also tends to get you the extreme candidates, and seems especially true on the republican side (but it’s not unique to them)

3. Promote education. Educated voters are better voters and somewhat less likely to be swayed by anything they see online. Not immune to it, but less susceptible to it.

4. Eliminate the role of shadow money in politics. This has a much bigger impact than I think most people realize in shaping politician’s actions.

5. Traditional media placing less emphasis on “both sides of the story.” Sometimes one side is simply wrong and creating a false equivalence is simply misleading and helps to keep the dumb ideas around. There needs to be more truly informational (TV) media out there instead of 24 banter and just rehashing what politicians say. Just putting two people who disagree on TV might be fun to watch but oftentimes one of them is simply wrong and many viewers are not capable of figuring that out for themselves.

 

[stehsegler]

If face masks are pointless in spreading infections why do surgeons wear a face masks during an operation?

 

[GreyAreaUK]

And that's total BS. I'm pretty sure during the black plague pandemic they created herd immunity. They didn't have vaccines.

It wiped out a third of Europe, dickhead. That's not herd immunity.

 

[balthazarr]

...the Dems made it nearly impossible to exist without it...

...ultra liberal...

Tell me you're anti-vax without telling me you're anti-vax.

I'm not antivax. I'm vaccinated. I'm one of those "I take care of me, therefore I'm vaccinated, but won't judge others on their choice for their bodies." I've witnessed one person die from getting the J&J vaccine. The rate blood clotting issues it has so I don't judge others for their choice not to. I don't tell others what to do and don't expect politicians to tell other what's to do especially. Leave that to medical professionals. The minute this thing went political, thanks to Gavin Newsom and Pelosi is when people distrusted it.

Right... it was Newsom and Pelosi that made it political. I'm not even from the US and I know that. Nice try.

As for your stance on vaccines - if you truly hold this view, then you don't understand the nature of vaccinations and how they provide maximum protection.

Vaccines work best, when there's a very large proportion of the population vaccinated. There will always be those that legitimately cannot get vaccinated (eg. they're allergic to an ingredient, they have compromised immunity, etc.) - but 15-20% of the population unvaccinated (let alone the figure of around 40% which I've seen as 'vaccine hesitant' in the USA) is not enough to obtain the maximum benefit to society.

And that's really the key - society. We all live in a society, and need to pull our weight and contribute - part of this is to pay taxes, follow the law and not be vigilantes and, yes, vaccinate if at all possible.

Nobody is forcing anyone to vaccinate - in the sense they're not strapping them to a chair and forcefully injecting the vaccine - but if you want to live in a society, and enjoy the benefits of that society - then, hey, you need to vaccinate if you can.

If you don't like it - that's fine, but don't complain about being ostracised and shunned. If you don't like society - go and live in some mountain cabin somewhere.

Oddly we seemed to do just fine before late 2019. People for. It happens sadly. I've lost 4 total people and even their families realize that it will happen. Sadly we can't protect everyone. People need to choose themselves. Forcing things on a society calls for revolt. In other words, leave people alone to deal with their own.

Wow. Woooooooooow. And this, ladies and gentlemen, proves anti-vaxxers will never be convinced.

THEIR OWN FUCKING FAMILY MEMBERS DIE AND THEY STILL DON'T GET IT.

You're right - we can't protect everyone - but we can protect a hell of a lot more than what's currently done - if only they'd wake up and do what's good not only for them, but society as a whole.

And, I'm not sure you've heard - but the world is in the midst of a pandemic that started in very late 2019/early 2020 - I'm not sure what 'just fine before late 2019' has to do with anything.

As others have already said far more eloquently than I - people's right to be left alone ends when their inaction directly and indirectly threatens not only themselves, but almost every member of society along with them.

"People need to choose..." funny how being pro-choice almost invariably also means being rabidly anti pro-choice.