Florida’s new surgeon general skeptical of vaccines, opposes masks

Ladapo signed the Great Barrington Declaration and suggests embracing "the reality of viral spread."

Read the whole story

 

[Unclebugs]

DeSantis's Dance of the Sycophants is straight out of the Trump playbook. Perhaps the Orange one in the Orange state will sue for trademark infringement.

 

[ranthog]

Joseph Ladapo, a UCLA researcher known for opposing evidence-based mask mandates, vaccine mandates, and lockdowns.

Another fucking idiot.

I mean, Europe achieved herd immunity against the plague without the help of vaccine, amiright?

Absolutely. I'm can't remember, did it cost one third or half of the population? Wiki to the rescue!


Closer to half, apparently.

Some more modern estimates show closer to 2/3rds.

Europe did not maintain herd immunity. Europe quickly dropped back below herd immunity and would suffer from recurrences for centuries.

 

[Goofball_Jones]

Maybe DeSantis is really anti-Trump, and in some psychopathic response he wants to kill off any and all Trump supporters in his state, so that it will turn very blue by the mid-terms? I mean, that's the only thing I can figure out, because he's doing everything short of making it a mandate for everyone in the state to contract COVID on purpose.

 

[MonkeyT]

"...and the cost of diagnostics."

Is that another way of saying "well, I'm not certain, so let's wait a week and see if any more definitive symptoms appear."?

For a party that went nuts over fictional "death panels," they sure are lining up for that job.

 

[Komarov]

Obviously, the solution would be to empower the Federal government to dismiss state governors at will, but that wouldn't have worked out well while Trump was President.

How does one go about ensuring that only sane people rise to elected office?

One way would be by having a better-educated electorate.

That's... actually and specifically why the Republican party is so against public education. They want everyone dumb and afraid. Critical thinking is for chumps, dude unit.

Also, what you describe would no longer be considered a "Federal" government, FWIW. That's just an autocracy, if elected officials can be fired "at will." We actually can and do fire people from government all the time -- it's called "losing an election." "At will" implies a level of control that's quite impractical.

Unless you have a benevolent philosopher-king. That'd be nice. I'm sure they'll be reasonable and tolerant.

Hmmm. And prone to having a rather less benevolent or philosophical heir.

 

[dashman]

Florida gonna Florida. Even in California I feel like moving west to get farther from the crazy.

Times like this where I wish that Bugs Bunny skit where he saws Florida and it floats away were possible.

Just think a bit, with Global Warming and rising oceans, that GQPers refute, a good % of Florida will be under water soon (geological time scale)... and then storm surges cometh...

 

[numerobis]

Joseph Ladapo, a UCLA researcher known for opposing evidence-based mask mandates, vaccine mandates, and lockdowns.

Another fucking idiot.

I mean, Europe achieved herd immunity against the plague without the help of vaccine, amiright?

Absolutely. I'm can't remember, did it cost one third or half of the population? Wiki to the rescue!


Closer to half, apparently.

Two thirds in some parts of Europe.

And herd immunity just means the epidemic ends. Doesn’t mean there won’t be another wave in 20 years.

 

[epicengr]

The weird thing is the R's are probably doing more to reduce the carbon footprint by killing all of their constituents then the D's are doing by conserving resources and also keeping us from ending up like Idiocracy, by letting Darwin do his thing.

 

[MonkeyT]

Joseph Ladapo, a UCLA researcher known for opposing evidence-based mask mandates, vaccine mandates, and lockdowns.

Another fucking idiot.

I mean, Europe achieved herd immunity against the plague without the help of vaccine, amiright?

Absolutely. I'm can't remember, did it cost one third or half of the population? Wiki to the rescue!


Closer to half, apparently.

Two thirds in some parts of Europe.

And herd immunity just means the epidemic ends. Doesn’t mean there won’t be another wave in 20 years.

Doesn’t mean there won’t be another wave next year. We've had a new spike after each major holiday, so far.

 

[K Templar]

Florida: Idiots hiring idiots to support idiotic policy.

 

[csilverman]

But you won't buy that "Just letting it spread" as part of the strategy can work.

As if our bodies and humanity in general can't survive a disease without the scientists. It's a wonder we made it to the 21st century as a species.

What I am telling you is that the science you trust as dogma has been politicized, infused into the social media machine and mind melded into you as absolute fact when it is nothing of the sort.

The question to Ars readers is are you smart enough to see all the misinformation or just the misinformation you want to be mad at.

I would like you to imagine a condescending laugh, followed by a mouse click.

 

[Aurich]

Why am I not surprised he's from southern california

sigh

You mean Southern California, where we're doing a kick ass job at managing the pandemic?

California, the state with the lowest case rate in the entire country, that is only held back from doing better by (checks notes) definitely not Southern California (or the Bay Area).

You're being snide because you have some issue with where I live, but I feel great about how when I go out people are masked up and doing their part.

 

[Fred Duck]

In case you were curious, this site
https://www.population-world.info/us-po ... 8-vs-2020/
says the US population was 103 million in 1918 and 330 million in 2020.

 

[Deleted member 1]

Lying is not "skepticism."

 

[numerobis]

Joseph Ladapo, a UCLA researcher known for opposing evidence-based mask mandates, vaccine mandates, and lockdowns.

Another fucking idiot.

I mean, Europe achieved herd immunity against the plague without the help of vaccine, amiright?

Absolutely. I'm can't remember, did it cost one third or half of the population? Wiki to the rescue!


Closer to half, apparently.

Two thirds in some parts of Europe.

And herd immunity just means the epidemic ends. Doesn’t mean there won’t be another wave in 20 years.

Doesn’t mean there won’t be another wave next year. We've had a new spike after each major holiday, so far.

True. I was thinking of the plague.

Though for the present pandemic, we haven’t reached no-action herd immunity yet. Every time the epidemic waned in a place it was after significant control measures.

 

[monkeyrun]

At this point I am pretty sure Republicans are trying to kick semi-reasonable people out of red states.

 

[Aurich]

So I just banned the person who said:

"For every person saved by the vaccine 2 people are dying because of the vaccine."

Because clearly they're not very bright and are trying to spread FUD and I'm sick of it.

But I did get a dark chuckle out of it. I mean, do the math. We'd be climbing over corpses in the streets. We're talking about what? Something like 40% of the population being killed? Story checks out.

As I said, not very bright.

 

[CraigJ ✅]

Arizona: At least we're not Florida.

 

[numerobis]

The weird thing is the R's are probably doing more to reduce the carbon footprint by killing all of their constituents then the D's are doing by conserving resources and also keeping us from ending up like Idiocracy, by letting Darwin do his thing.

A maybe 0.5% reduction when it’s all done isn’t much moving the needle. Reducing carbon emissions through death is *really hard*.

That said I’d never realized it but the Ds are trying to keep R down, whereas the Rs want to maximize R.

Also, maps tend to use red for the worst case rate, and the Rs are trying to paint the map red.

Maybe they’re just confused?

 

[ranthog]

So I just banned the person who said:

"For every person saved by the vaccine 2 people are dying because of the vaccine."

Because clearly they're not very bright and are trying to spread FUD and I'm sick of it.

But I did get a dark chuckle out of it. I mean, do the math. We'd be climbing over corpses in the streets. We're talking about what? Something like 40% of the population being killed? Story checks out.

As I said, not very bright.

That is impressively larger than than letting COVID-19 just burn through the entire populace and burn itself out (at least until we slip under the herd immunity threshold and have a new flare up).

 

[Chuckstar]

"To be clear, while losing weight, exercising, and eating fruits and vegetables are generally good for health, they will not prevent SARS-CoV-2 infection or transmission."

i'm not saying to to deny the studied effectiveness of vaccines and mRNA therapies - but if you are going to say this - use the word "prevent" - the current crop of vaccines/mRNA therapies don't prevent either. they may reduce infection and transmission but they do not prevent in the sense that the definition of vaccine used to have.

when you have a solid foot to argue from - why undermine yourself with things like this?

No vaccine creates a forcefield around an individual. People still get the virus and it reduces the amount a virus replicates and hence reduce the damage (the disease) and the amount it can transmit.

Name a vaccine that is 100% effective?

“Death therapy, Bob. It’s a guaranteed cure.”

 

[BobbyBobberson]

Hopefully DeSantis kills enough of his voting base to ensure his lose in the next election.

 

[PrimalxConvoy]

How the fuck does someone like this earn a medical degree? It's like Boeing hiring a Chief Engineer that doesn't believe in the principles of aerodynamics....oh, wait, maybe that explains it all.

Or one that believes the Earth is flat...

 

[csilverman]

So I just banned the person who said:

"For every person saved by the vaccine 2 people are dying because of the vaccine."

Because clearly they're not very bright and are trying to spread FUD and I'm sick of it.

But I did get a dark chuckle out of it. I mean, do the math. We'd be climbing over corpses in the streets. We're talking about what? Something like 40% of the population being killed? Story checks out.

As I said, not very bright.

Well, that would explain why the current death toll in vaccinated states is double that of deep-red states like Florida, wouldn't it? Why is everyone here so terrified of alternate viewpoints??

*burbles, gestures to very credible-looking bar chart from r/vaccinesheeple1488*

 

[ComradeMatis]

DeSantis has already killed more people with Covid than his margin of victory in his 2018 election to office. You can bet that 90% of those deaths are people who voted for him.

Looks like Florida will get a Democrat governor next year.

There is already a conspiracy theory doing their rounds on the right wing media that Democrats are goading Republicans into not taking the vaccine so that they die off quicker and win the election.

https://www.breitbart.com/entertainment ... ters-dead/

The people of Florida not only voted for a GOP governor but also a GOP majority in both houses in their state - it is difficult to feel sorry for a population who have signed their own death warrant (I do however feel for those who get out and vote against the GOP, see sanity of their state slip away but lack the funds/means to be move out of the state).

 

[Cognac]

facepalm.jpg

History will not be kind to these people.

Unless they're the ones writing it.

It's not a given that merit, tolerance, reason, diversity, et al will reign triumphant.

Vote like your life depends on it? -- it might.

Vote like your childrens' lives depend on it? -- they do.

We were perilously close to a Y'all Qaeda sweep in 2020. Bigoted stubborn ignorance and hatred of the other, submission to authority, and having someone else have The Answers are worlds easier than saying "I don't know, let's find out together. Maybe I'm wrong?"

Black and white is easier to process than grayscale. Lots of people just want to be TOLD what's right and what's wrong.

To qualify, it's not that I think it's a given that merit, tolerance, reason, diversity, et al will reign triumphant. I'm as uncertain as you about that. I also live in Australia, so can't really impact how the US elections fare. I was more thinking long term. In a hundred years or more, when people are doing historical studies on disease management, covid-19 will be seen as an index case for the difference between good and bad approaches.

We have some[/] data from the plague, and lots of data from the Spanish flu. But we have unbelievable amounts of data for covid-19 that will be sifted through, providing PhDs for decades, that will outline, very clearly, what worked and what didn't. That some, such as this fuckknuckle, refused to accept and promote good health advice will continue to be as astounding centuries in the future as it is to us today.

 

[ranthog]

DeSantis has already killed more people with Covid than his margin of victory in his 2018 election to office. You can bet that 90% of those deaths are people who voted for him.

Looks like Florida will get a Democrat governor next year.

There is already a conspiracy theory doing their rounds on the right wing media that Democrats are goading Republicans into not taking the vaccine so that they die off quicker and win the election.

https://www.breitbart.com/entertainment ... ters-dead/

The people of Florida not only voted for a GOP governor but also a GOP majority in both houses in their state - it is difficult to feel sorry for a population who have signed their own death warrant (I do however feel for those who get out and vote against the GOP, see sanity of their state slip away but lack the funds/means to be move out of the state).

This makes my head hurt. Can we have reality back please? I don't like this fiction.

 

[Goofball_Jones]

So I just banned the person who said:

"For every person saved by the vaccine 2 people are dying because of the vaccine."

Because clearly they're not very bright and are trying to spread FUD and I'm sick of it.

But I did get a dark chuckle out of it. I mean, do the math. We'd be climbing over corpses in the streets. We're talking about what? Something like 40% of the population being killed? Story checks out.

As I said, not very bright.

So, correct me if I'm wrong, but does that mean 2/3rds of everyone who got the vaccine is dying from it? So, 2/3rds of 5.98 billion administered vaccines? So, there would be close to 4 billion dead people on the planet?

Or am I doing the math thingy wrong?

 

[fractl]

So I just banned the person who said:

"For every person saved by the vaccine 2 people are dying because of the vaccine."

Because clearly they're not very bright and are trying to spread FUD and I'm sick of it.

But I did get a dark chuckle out of it. I mean, do the math. We'd be climbing over corpses in the streets. We're talking about what? Something like 40% of the population being killed? Story checks out.

As I said, not very bright.

So, correct me if I'm wrong, but does that mean 2/3rds of everyone who got the vaccine is dying from it? So, 2/3rds of 5.98 billion administered vaccines? So, there would be close to 4 billion dead people on the planet?

Or am I doing the math thingy wrong?

At this rate, we will have global warming solved by next year!

 

[ranthog]

Some of us - yes, even those of us who have taken the vaccine - find the overwhelming desire to "shut up" those with dissenting opinions more than a little disturbing.

I don't have a problem with dissenting opinions.

I have problems with people having "alternative facts" or as I'd call them fucking lies.

Claiming vaccines are unsafe is not an "opinion" it is a lie. I am not debating reality because someone doesn't want to live in reality.

 

[Wheels Of Confusion]

Some of us - yes, even those of us who have taken the vaccine - find the overwhelming desire to "shut up" those with dissenting opinions more than a little disturbing.

Some of us find the "dissenting" camp's complete antipathy to the health, safety, lives, and livelihoods of the rest of us to be more disturbing still.

They're basically advocating for driving drunk every day. That's not "dissenting opinions," that's malicious.

 

[orwelldesign]

Florida now has a new industry: it is an incubator for new variants of Covid, which it will export for FREE to the rest of the world!

<troll snipped>

What we do have is evidence that the vaccinated are less likely to be reinfected than the unvaccinated. In fact, the unvaccinated are more than twice as likely to become reinfected.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/ ... mm7032e1_w

Don't quote the troll/imbecile.

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-res ... y-covid-19

But you won't buy that "Just letting it spread" as part of the strategy can work. That coupled with vaccination for those that want to get it should work properly. Proper study for infants and children under 11 should be done post haste but not in a way that cuts corners. I'm a troll. I get it. I've read studies on natural immunity, B and T Cell response plus long term viral memory. They hold up but don't necessarily support the vaccination is the only way dogma so they are not peer reviewed properly, not reported properly or flat out beaten down by the zealotry of "vaccination is the only cure". As if our bodies and humanity in general can't survive a disease without the scientists. It's a wonder we made it to the 21st century as a species.

Childhood vaccination has slain one of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse. We made it through by everyone having 8, 10, 12 kids -- so that 4 or 5 of them could live to adulthood.

What you seem to be passing by is the hundreds of thousands of unnecessary deaths that "herd immunity" without vaccination will entail.

Are you ignoring that for a specific reason? That's.. odd.

 

[brshoemak]

In the past, there were 'chickenpox parties' where if a child got the chickenpox all the moms in the neighborhood would bring their kids over so they would be exposed and they'd get their 'immunity'.

So this is just like that, except instead of getting itchy bumps, you get irreversible lung damage, end up on a ventilator and die.

This is some genius thinking right here. A war of attrition between idiots and the virus.

 

[numerobis]

So I just banned the person who said:

"For every person saved by the vaccine 2 people are dying because of the vaccine."

Because clearly they're not very bright and are trying to spread FUD and I'm sick of it.

But I did get a dark chuckle out of it. I mean, do the math. We'd be climbing over corpses in the streets. We're talking about what? Something like 40% of the population being killed? Story checks out.

As I said, not very bright.

Don’t be such an alarmist! We’re only talking somewhere around 1 or 2% dead by vaccine if it’s 2 deaths by vaccine per death by virus. Given we’d expect 0.5 to 1% to die with near-universal infection.

It would sure increase the load in crematoria. I mean they’ve been struggling with just 0.2% or 0.3% dead over a period of 18 months.

…

But the true death toll is 100%.

Absolutely everyone who’s vaccinated dies.

So does everyone who’s not vaccinated, and OK yeah they die younger. Details.

 

[epicengr]

The weird thing is the R's are probably doing more to reduce the carbon footprint by killing all of their constituents then the D's are doing by conserving resources and also keeping us from ending up like Idiocracy, by letting Darwin do his thing.

A maybe 0.5% reduction when it’s all done isn’t much moving the needle. Reducing carbon emissions through death is *really hard*.

That said I’d never realized it but the Ds are trying to keep R down, whereas the Rs want to maximize R.

Also, maps tend to use red for the worst case rate, and the Rs are trying to paint the map red.

Maybe they’re just confused?

Hard to roll coal from 6ft under

 

[ybeers]

Call me callous but think this is likely the most expedient way for Democrats to win future elections, let Republicans kill themselves off.

Sure, there are immuno-compromised who cannot get vaccinated but aside from certain groups like this, this full throttle approach toward embracing complete stupidity is self-correcting.

 

[singularity6]

COVID can make you stupider... I'm wondering... are these morons pre-COVID stupid? Or post?

 

[Bob Dobilina]

There is already a conspiracy theory doing their rounds on the right wing media that Democrats are goading Republicans into not taking the vaccine so that they die off quicker and win the election.

I’m fine with this because:

1. It may convince some to take the vaccine
2. Darwin. (I’m being polite tonight.)