Zillow asked for a preliminary injunction as real estate industry fight heats up.
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Zillow loses access to thousands of home listings amid bitter legal feud
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This may be true, but Zillow is clearly correct on this one. MRED/Compass trying to be on both sides of the transaction is bad for everyone but them.
Also, what is the advantage for house sellers to work with MRED/Compass? Do they claim to offer a faster sale or lower commission or something?
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The real estate industry is still buthurt over losing the anti-trust case over commissions. Of course their solution is to find a different way to collude.
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My real estate agent was just talking about Zillow yesterday. He basically said they are the Ticketmaster/Live Nation of real estate. My agent works for a local, independent agency in the Harrisburg, PA area.
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How does any platform hiding listings not run afoul of the equal housing act?
Oh yeah, money, that's why.
Oh yeah, money, that's why.
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Okay. I'm lost.
Zillow is upset that that they can't show houses that are under certain criteria, sure.
But they are blocked from showing all houses now because they themselves chose not to show a house which broke the rules of the contract for showing the house?
And they say they are upset because the "big bad" hides homes from the market when Zillow...hid a home
Did they choose not to show the house because they were not the "primary source" so even though they showed the house they wouldn't get anything off the top? Or it was a "bad" bid?
I mean, this is all shady all over.
Zillow is upset that that they can't show houses that are under certain criteria, sure.
But they are blocked from showing all houses now because they themselves chose not to show a house which broke the rules of the contract for showing the house?
And they say they are upset because the "big bad" hides homes from the market when Zillow...hid a home
Did they choose not to show the house because they were not the "primary source" so even though they showed the house they wouldn't get anything off the top? Or it was a "bad" bid?
I mean, this is all shady all over.
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Yep. This is continued fallout from that whole fiasco from 2 years ago.
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I think I keep getting turned around on the contract dispute. MRED has private listings that Zillow doesn't want to display because they're private, but MRED wants them displayed because access to the listing requires a contract with Compass?
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I'd imagine that real estate agents cannot be relied upon to be unbiased in this scenario. Their incentives are for more transactions at higher prices, rather than ideal transactions.
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Zillow hid homes that didn’t meet their listing standards and compass wants them to display all or none.
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I believe I know the answer to this question, but can't find the old reference. How many homes does the average real estate agent sell each year? I seem to recall it's one. Does that mean the market may be skewed towards certain companies? And what role to these listing companies play?
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The way I read it, Zillow refused to display those listings because they were previously listed in a limited fashion. Zillow is trying to force all listings on their platform to be public from the start. They refused to list houses that were only listed on their platform after failing to sell in a private market, in an attempt to dissuade that sort of private-market sale. In retaliation, the other companies have pulled all of their Zillow listings.
As much as Zillow sucks, they do seem to be on the right side of this one. There does seem to be actual anti-competitive behavior happening here that will harm consumers.
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Yeah, MRED/Compass said "we're going to try and sell the houses privately first and if we can't find anyone to buy in our own little internal market we'll send our leftover houses to you."
Zillow said "that's not how it works, if you're listing a house for sale we need to be able to list it, we don't just want the dregs you can't move."
MRED/Compass did the private listing anyways so Zillow said "well now we're not showing those houses because you broke our terms"
And mred/compass responded "well it's all or nothing so now you get no houses, Zillow!"
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A primer on the law for those of us outside the jurisdiction would be awesome?
Also, a link to what went down a couple of years ago would be awesome.
Otherwise, yet another reason I'm glad I don't live in the US, forever being dragged around by corporate giants whose only interest is monopoly and government corruption and, of course, ever vaster profits. (mind you the UK is not exactly ideal...)
Also, a link to what went down a couple of years ago would be awesome.
Otherwise, yet another reason I'm glad I don't live in the US, forever being dragged around by corporate giants whose only interest is monopoly and government corruption and, of course, ever vaster profits. (mind you the UK is not exactly ideal...)
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Which Zillow standards were breached by those listings, and why couldn't that be fixed ?
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It is worse than that.
People have been screaming about inflation for a couple years now. And the main gauge used as a yardstick is CPI. Now, CPI systemically and knowingly understates the changes in housing prices. Why? Because, unlike a bag of crisps--that only has value as food....housing isn't just shelter to be consumed. "Real estate", is a speculative asset class--buy low sell higher, you know that whole "generational wealth" thing homeowners want. No one in their right mind would sell their house for the same price they paid for it--unless under economic duress. The price your Agent sees, or that Zillow posts, isn't the value of the building as shelter--it is more akin to the value of $TSLA on the stock exchange.
Which makes Zillow less like a Ticketmaster--and more a retail stock broker like Charles Schwab (or formerly TD Ameritrade).
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So what's the reason Zillow sucks? I've used the site, but I ignore all the ads for scheduling showing and whatnot or picking an agent.
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I don't know if that stat is correct or not, but I'd take it with a pinch of salt. One home sale per year isn't enough to make a living on. Off the top of my head, there are a number of reasons why that stat might not represent the real world:
- Part-time real estate agents who are ok with low volume.
- Agents who primarily do something else (real estate attorney who also has their realtor license).
- Agents who mostly focus on property rentals.
$500,000 house.
2.5% broker fee to selling agent.
$12,500 commission.
Half goes to the agency the agent works for, leaving $6,150.
One per month: $70-75k gross income before taxes, etc.
Obviously, scenarios differ, but you get the idea.
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I just want all properties to be easily findable...Seems to work out best for both buyers and sellers.
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Which side? Both sides are trying to have their cake, and still eat it.
I'll be in the market within the next few years. When depends on interest rates. I could care less about what listing services, and have zero problems with a "pre-listing" process that once let us sell without having to go through the rigamarole of open houses and staging and that hassle, and twice got us what we were looking for very quickly. What I care about is the quality and integrity of my agent, his or her marketing plan, and what commission they will charge. The only concern I have about Zillow, et al, are whether or not their middleman rent-seeking policies make it harder for my agent to get done what needs to be done and be fairly compensated for the work he or she does, not some agency who cut a deal or has a gimmick.
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I've worked with two realtors in recent history and the first guy told me he'd "do everything he could so I wouldn't have to check stuff on Zillow", which basically amounted to signing me up for his listserve that sent MLS listings lightly filtered with the criteria I gave him. Little did he know, I actually look at Zillow/Redfin for fun occasionally to see any interesting houses that are out there.
The second realtor said she'd look around and send stuff over but if I saw anything on Zillow or wherever that looked interesting to let her know and she'd set up a walkthrough.
The difference in attitude was quite amusing.
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Back in the early 2000s we moved from CA to the midwest. The Realtor we hired to sell the house we found out would not allow any others to show the house. A prospective buyer had to go through him. Wife testified to the board and he was sanctioned. 3 weeks later it was sold by the nice young agent that informed us our agent would not let her show the house.
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I decided to google it to see what I could find.
https://www.zillow.com/c/info/zillow-listing-access-standards/
Offhand those standards seem reasonable and if Compass was upset because Zillow wasn't listing some of their house I think I have to a agree with Zillow on this one. Compass was trying to pull some dirty tricks and didn't like Zillow pushing back against that.
https://www.zillow.com/c/info/zillow-listing-access-standards/
Offhand those standards seem reasonable and if Compass was upset because Zillow wasn't listing some of their house I think I have to a agree with Zillow on this one. Compass was trying to pull some dirty tricks and didn't like Zillow pushing back against that.
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Having recently been on both sides of the homebuying process for myself and my family, your real estate agent is smoking something illegal. Zillow didn't have a monopoly in the MLS listings nor the sale processes. Homes appeared on each of Zillow, Redfin, Homes.com, the brokerage-branded sites, etc. and I dealt with the agents that I selected and the agents that the other sides selected.
That's nothing like Ticketmaster being the exclusive ticket seller and Live Nation the exclusive venue booking authority.
BTW: Not that I tried Zillow Preview, but that program does not permit purchase offers and sales in the preview period, and so is entirely different from the Compass process. At most people can book tours in advance for after the listing goes active. It's not terribly different from a "coming soon" MLS listing, but provides the listing agent with all sorts of interest intelligence (whereas MLS does not).
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I could be wrong, but my understanding is that if you don't post to MLS then over 99% of the people looking to buy a house won't know you're trying to sell one. MRED is the gateway to MLS in that neck of the woods.
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I've recently been involved in three real estate deals with no agents involved. It's so much nicer to just come to an agreement and have a lawyer draw up the paperwork without agents taking their cuts.
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We had a somewhat similar thing with our house that we bought in early 2020 (like closed on it while wearing masks and sitting 8 feet from each other because COVID had shutdown everything the week before early 2020). When we found the house we ended up buying it was though our Agent's MLS search. We visted during an open house because out agent was busy the morning we were availble with an open house of her own (which wasn't a problem, we had walked though easily a dozen houses with her already, we could do this one alone).
The sellers agent was very pushy, clearly trying to get us to drop our agent and buy through her so she could get more commission. She withheld the sales disclosure (which is not fully legal, and we found out was expressly forbidden by the MLS terms), and made us go through our agent to get a copy. Luckily our agent was great and dealt with the sellers agents BS throughout the sales process without really getting us involved (there were multiple dramas, from us asking but not expecting buyers assistance as it was our first house, to the house appraising for less than we offered and us needing to renegotiate down to the appraisal price which meant the divorcee selling it was taking a wash).
The brokerage the sellers agent worked for was able to get the MLS policy changed to allow them to not provide disclosures directly to prosepctive buyers but lock them behind agent access to the MLS, and other similar changes that allow them to be a shittier company (it was Howard Hanna if anyone is curious).
The lessons we learned was shop around for a good agent first, then shop for houses, and don't put up with shitty sellers agents. Buying a house is stressful enough and the vast majority of people don't do it enough to be good at it while shady agents look to try and take advantge of that. I don't love how Zillow operates, but they are right in this case that allowing the MLS and brokerage to collude is not good for sellers or buyers and shouldn't be allowed.
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good summary as far as I can tell. Ultimately, what matters to me is how both sides actions impact the consumers in this scenario (no one is entitled to their preferred business model working, or being legal).
When I was buying a home in 2020/2021, I was stymied because at the time homes in my area were coming onto, and then going off of the market before ever hitting an MLS. Basically, the realty group who listed your home would sell it to one of their own buyers, and never let the rest of the market know the home had even been for sale, until it was reported as sold. That helped them get both sides of the commission, but that harmed me, because I could not bid on a house I didn't know was for sale.
If I were to sell my house, I would want as many buyers as possible to see it, so as to generate as many bids as possible, quickly. When supply is short (as in when I bought my current home) internal sales can be quick, but they are unlikely to be as competitive as possible. Buyers working with other realtors may be wiling to pay more than interested buyers working with your own realtor. That means possibly a faster sale, but likely at the cost of leaving money on the table.
Ultimately, both of the consumers in this transaction are probably harmed by internal private listing practices. If a realty agency is the minority player, that may or may not be legal (lots of anti-competitive shit is legal if you are not a dominant player in the market), but if you ARE the dominant player (which seems to be the case for MRED/Compass) then that shit is text-book anti-trust violation due to anticompetitive behavior and consumer harm (the only part of antitrust that government seems to even pretend to care about anymore).
While Zillow may not be able showing standing to sue (though I don't see how), anyone in the area who bought or sold a home could be a participant in the class action lawsuit. Buyers for being denied access to homes, and sellers for being corralled into unfair deals that denied them additional profits on their sale.
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As I listened to this article via TTS, I was rather startled to discover the word "alleged(ly)" allegedly appears fourteen times.
Cheers to the various commenters whom I allege properly summarised the situation.
Also note: allegedly, Realtor® is a brand name of estate agents and is a registered trademark.
Cheers to the various commenters whom I allege properly summarised the situation.
Also note: allegedly, Realtor® is a brand name of estate agents and is a registered trademark.
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Indeed it is. But Zillow's stance is that you can choose between private and public listings, not that you can choose private listings and then switch to a public listing when your choice doesn't work out.
MRED choosing to let their MLS merely serve as a 'backup plan' to Compass' PLN is a little odd -- Zillow has to take all listings but MRED can pick or choose to exclude Compass' (prior) PLN listings before lising in the MLS. Yes, it's temporally different, but if you really believe in a "must display all" principle, that should probably apply retrospectively and to the brokerages listing in the MLS as well.
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I've been trying to purchase a home recently, practically living on Zillow for the last two months. Nothing is more infuriating than seeing a listing that's a few hours old only to find out they already have multiple offers. At first I thought it was because the neighborhood was crazy desirable, but now I'm wondering if it is private listing shenanigans.
The modern real-estate market is its own special hell right now. Since AI has to destroy everything it touches, staging photos now almost never look like the actual home. It's like they take a photo of the house, and re-create it in unreal engine so everything is bright and clean with immaculate wood flooring. I yearn for the old days of fish-bowl lenses that make tiny kitchens look twice their size. I feel like I'm being cat-fished, but with real-estate.
The modern real-estate market is its own special hell right now. Since AI has to destroy everything it touches, staging photos now almost never look like the actual home. It's like they take a photo of the house, and re-create it in unreal engine so everything is bright and clean with immaculate wood flooring. I yearn for the old days of fish-bowl lenses that make tiny kitchens look twice their size. I feel like I'm being cat-fished, but with real-estate.
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Zillow is on the record as only supporting supporting listings that are a) publicly available to anyone to see, or b) only shared one to one by the original listing agency and their clients. As actual capitalists Zillow won't deal with listings restricted to only special parties even if they are one of the special parties.
MRED and Compass could have made the listings public or have kept them private and not listed them on Zillow. Instead, in an anticompetitive move they pulled all of their listings.
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We had an afternoon-of-listing, more than asking price, all cash offer within hours of activation and tours starting. If you're not in the South or West, some markets are still very seller friendly.
Also, I was on the other side of that (but not with the all cash part). You have to tour almost day of, get an offer in, use an escalator clause, and carefully consider what contingencies you might (and should not) waive.
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I wonder if an ‘equal opportunity’ statute is being violated here? The Equal Opportunity Act (1972) prohibits discrimination based upon race, religion, gender, etc., but here it’s based on closed membership. If not, and this is allowed to persist, then the members actually lose because a wider viewership would stimulate more competitive and lucrative bidding. Of course American capitalism has always been based on exclusion.
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