Yoga Pro 3 review: Broadwell is a mixed blessing

The design is ever more exotic, but the performance is worse.

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[Supacon_Fizzix]

"to make it into a sort of chunky laptop." <- Is that supposed to say 'chunky tablet'?

 

[mattcoz]

I was extremely disappointed when I heard tgey were going with the Broadwell-Y. I have the original Yoga and was hoping to upgrade this year, but it looks like it won't be to the Yoga Pro 3. Too bad because I like everything else about it. Seems like this should have been the plain Yoga 3 and then have a Broadwell-U based Yoga Pro 3.

 

[Verbail]

I too was disappointed with the keyboard, and for that reason, having waited to see what the Y P 3 would deliver have simply decided to go elsewhere. Not sure where, yet, mind.

 

[TheFerenc]

I'd have liked to see the ThinkPad Yoga tossed into the mix, as well.

Bothers me they call these things "Pro" but then have a version in their actual pro line -- in case the marketing has managed to convince you otherwise, these are still IdeaPads, not ThinkPads.

 

[CrymsonKyng]

So your saying find a good deal on the now 'obsolete' Pro 2 while you have a chance.

Edit: Seems the i7 version of the pro 2 with 8 GB of ram and 256 GB ssd is still readily available for $1200 or less.

 

[MonkeyPaw]

Supacon_Fizzix[/url]":2tkkrz4i]"to make it into a sort of chunky laptop." <- Is that supposed to say 'chunky tablet'?

That, or Peter has very high expectations when it comes to thin and light!

I kinda wonder if the crummy keyboard and trackpad are due to thinning down the form factor even more. Maybe the guts need the space above the keyboard, and the battery sits underneath. Time to break out the appropriate screwdriver!

 

[maskarova]

Would really love to see a review of the yoga 11e windows version. They appear thin on the ground at the moment.

 

[GlennHowes]

Am I right in reading this that the graphics (GFXBench Offscreen) of the Yoga 3 are now significantly slower than an iPad Air 2? And that the GeekBench Multi-core has the iPad a bit faster? For other things like the web benchmarks, the Yoga is faster, sometimes by a lot.

If I were Intel I'd be worried.

http://meincmagazine.com/apple/2014/10/th ... y-package/

 

[Joriarty]

"the [function] keys may be power user features..."

Eh, really? What about as a set of media keys (with the F1 - F12 functions needing fn key)? I like having music, display brightness, and a few other shortcuts right at my fingertips. I don't think that's a power user thing! I agree that the removal of that row of keys seems pointless. I see lots of space above the keyboard where they could go.

I also suspect that most folks who buy this machine would be power users themselves. Why spend $1300 on a computer just to do basic tasks?

 

[jdale]

I simply don't understand this trend of removing all the "unnecessary" keys on a keyboard.

I want to think John Brunner predicted this in one of his books. Keyboards with just twelve keys for ordinary folk because that's all they'd ever need, an intermediate number (90?) for advanced users, and 130+ for the elite. Not merely as a measure of ability but also of access....

 

[Hinton]

GlennHowes[/url]":191nhodc]Am I right in reading this that the graphics (GFXBench Offscreen) of the Yoga 3 are now significantly slower than an iPad Air 2? And that the GeekBench Multi-core has the iPad a bit faster? For other things like the web benchmarks, the Yoga is faster, sometimes by a lot.

If I were Intel I'd be worried.

http://meincmagazine.com/apple/2014/10/th ... y-package/

So I guess rather than purchasing a Yoga 3 for my gaming machine, I'll get an iPad.

Or perhaps I'd care about what the machine was intended to do.

 

[dmsilev]

GlennHowes[/url]":7br84yk9]Am I right in reading this that the graphics (GFXBench Offscreen) of the Yoga 3 are now significantly slower than an iPad Air 2? And that the GeekBench Multi-core has the iPad a bit faster? For other things like the web benchmarks, the Yoga is faster, sometimes by a lot.

If I were Intel I'd be worried.

http://meincmagazine.com/apple/2014/10/th ... y-package/

Well, the A8X has three cores vs. two on this Broadwell chip, so Intel still has a significant edge there. Especially when you consider that these chips are the bottom tier of performers in the Core line and the A8X is Apple's faster chip to-date (and is near the top of the current generation of mobile ARM chips). The graphics, on the other hand, is kind of startling; is 'Manhattan off-screen' the same test on x86 and ARM? If it is, then the iPad is out-pointing even the gruntier Haswell chip, never mind the Broadwell.

 

[iPirateEverything]

Love the design, love the weight... hate the price.

Maybe black Friday?

 

[erendorn]

This was so close

If it had a slightly bigger battery and CPU (it wouldn't be as thin, but still largely worth it), I would have bought it without hesitation. Well, a fn key row would have been icing on the cake)

 

[Joriarty]

dmsilev[/url]":2bfuhisd]

GlennHowes[/url]":2bfuhisd]Am I right in reading this that the graphics (GFXBench Offscreen) of the Yoga 3 are now significantly slower than an iPad Air 2? And that the GeekBench Multi-core has the iPad a bit faster? For other things like the web benchmarks, the Yoga is faster, sometimes by a lot.

If I were Intel I'd be worried.

http://meincmagazine.com/apple/2014/10/th ... y-package/

Well, the A8X has three cores vs. two on this Broadwell chip, so Intel still has a significant edge there. Especially when you consider that these chips are the bottom tier of performers in the Core line and the A8X is Apple's faster chip to-date (and is near the top of the current generation of mobile ARM chips). The graphics, on the other hand, is kind of startling; is 'Manhattan off-screen' the same test on x86 and ARM? If it is, then the iPad is out-pointing even the gruntier Haswell chip, never mind the Broadwell.

Also - although pricing for the Core M isn't public, I've read it's in the $300 range.

So it seems that A8X is an order of magnitude cheaper, certainly consumes less power, and might also be faster.

ARM is kicking some serious ass. It's a pity that architecture changes aren't an entirely smooth affair.

 

[romkyns]

Yoga 2 Pro is brilliant. It has the occaisonal drawback, but by and large, it's amazing, helped in no small part by a keyboard that doesn't compromise (for a 13" device, anyway).

Yoga 3 Pro keyboard, on the other hand, is a complete fail. "Pro"? You've gotta be kidding me. I use Visual Studio on this thing; I need F keys. Nowhere near a "Pro" device. But heck, even for non-pro use, dedicated keys for changing brightness without holding Fn were also pretty darn nifty.

What is it with people wanting fewer keys even if this makes everything harder?

Oh well, at least it still has the full-size arrow keys, not those half-height microscopic up/down keys that some companies are so eager to copy off Apple.

 

[kinpin]

I recently got my hands on Surface pro 2 for a couple of days and it's pretty clear why Microsoft made Windows RT to support ARM. It appears Intel is still struggling to copy with the heat and energy consumption on their chip-sets and from earlier reviews of Yoga 3 , even broadwell isn't going to be of much help.

 

[Lostfanboi]

This thing was looking great until I read about the F-key thing. Maybe that's not a problem for some people, but it's a total deal breaker for me.

 

[TheGouldFish]

No mouse buttons no buy!

 

[Mitlov]

TheFerenc[/url]":284nbwn1]I'd have liked to see the ThinkPad Yoga tossed into the mix, as well.

Bothers me they call these things "Pro" but then have a version in their actual pro line -- in case the marketing has managed to convince you otherwise, these are still IdeaPads, not ThinkPads.

Regardless of its etymological origins, nowadays "pro" as a practical matter means "higher-end consumer," not "business-class." Macbook Pro, Venue 11 Pro, Galaxy Tab Pro, Yoga 3 Pro, etc. I don't think there's a single Thinkpad, Precision, or Elitebook with "Pro" in its name.

 

[Joshmx]

i wish they would implement the pixel doubling at a lower level. windows will never be able to pull it off. there will always be some random program that doesn't use it.

i am not sure if i should get this or the 2... i want it for just a couch/ bedroom computer and tablet. but i don't want it to be slow if i hook it up to the TV to show some video.

 

[theoilman]

benchmarks aside, does the new chip actually make for a noticeable difference in day to day use?

the loss of battery life with screen brightness is still worrying anyway though, and I have to agree that keyboard looks bad (and keyboard is one of the things Lenovo is supposed to be good at too, so for shame on them).

 

[MonkeyPaw]

iPirateEverything[/url]":gf5sl7kn]Love the design, love the weight... hate the price.

Maybe black Friday?

I managed to get a refurbed Haswell-based Yoga for $400 9 months ago. It looked as good as new and it even had a 1 year warranty. Still running great, as the only moving part is a barely audible fan. Very nice looking device, too.

 

[MisterAV]

Seeing the hinge I wonder how the communication goes from the screen to the bottom part...

 

[Geebs]

Mitlov[/url]":q4s1i9v0]

TheFerenc[/url]":q4s1i9v0]I'd have liked to see the ThinkPad Yoga tossed into the mix, as well.

Bothers me they call these things "Pro" but then have a version in their actual pro line -- in case the marketing has managed to convince you otherwise, these are still IdeaPads, not ThinkPads.

Regardless of its etymological origins, nowadays "pro" as a practical matter means "higher-end consumer," not "business-class." Macbook Pro, Venue 11 Pro, Galaxy Tab Pro, Yoga 3 Pro, etc. I don't think there's a single Thinkpad, Precision, or Elitebook with "Pro" in its name.

Yeah, that use of the word is a bit of a con

 

[Deleted member 1]

No F-keys. I am sorry maybe I am a bit of a geezer but not having F-keys is ludicrous. I suppose there must be some way to enter the BIOS during boot up doing it some other way than normal is odious. This thing is going to be a $1000 coaster in two years I am sure. How the heck I am supposed to install Ubuntu on this thing? Because I have never owned a laptop that I didn't put Linux on first thing out of the box.

EDIT: what's next "No Pause Break key for YOU!"

 

[Slowpoke]

Odd that the designers decided Print Screen should [still] get its own key.

This is a wacky idea but is it possible to stick a laptop in the fridge before running benchmarks? I'm curious if the improved cooling lets you run at max power for longer. Obviously this isn't a real world use case, more of a science experiment ...

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

Don't care for the flip design I prefer the middle hinge design like the Touchsmart hybrid laptop or the design on the Vaio flip 13,14,15. I really want something like the flip 15 with dedicated graphics and semi solid stylus support for drawing.

 

[drfisheye]

A smaller battery, no function keys, no dedicated volume keys, slower processor, only to make it a a hair thinner.

 

[marcopolomint]

I was very interested in this because the Yoga Pro 2 was such a big step up from the Yoga Pro 1. But the 2 suffered from short battery life, despite Haswell. So, I thought, a Core M processor on the third iteration? That's gotta be good. It is unforgivable that the battery life isn't significantly better than its already gimped predecessor. And that uplift in price - doubly disappointing.

The power for all that screen brightness and resolution does have to come from somewhere, I know, but having a *smaller* MWh battery is silly, just to shave a little thickness and weight. Bah.

Good review though, Peter

 

[심돌산]

GlennHowes[/url]":33w921pv]Am I right in reading this that the graphics (GFXBench Offscreen) of the Yoga 3 are now significantly slower than an iPad Air 2? And that the GeekBench Multi-core has the iPad a bit faster? For other things like the web benchmarks, the Yoga is faster, sometimes by a lot.

The graphics don't surprise me. Apple is prioritizing graphics in their SoCs, more so than Intel does in their chips.

As for the CPU scores, for anything single threaded, the Yoga 3 wins easily in comparison with the iPad Air 2. Apple has come a long way (baby), but not that far yet.

 

[adamhillier]

Just a complete guess, but seems to me that the restricted keyboard/trackpad size with what appears to be a 'keyboard bezel' might be there so that when it's completely folded around and used in tablet mode, and you hold the device, you'll have your fingers on the actual body of it and not on the keys.

 

[심돌산]

Joriarty[/url]":15frn8bt]

dmsilev[/url]":15frn8bt]

GlennHowes[/url]":15frn8bt]Am I right in reading this that the graphics (GFXBench Offscreen) of the Yoga 3 are now significantly slower than an iPad Air 2? And that the GeekBench Multi-core has the iPad a bit faster? For other things like the web benchmarks, the Yoga is faster, sometimes by a lot.

If I were Intel I'd be worried.

http://meincmagazine.com/apple/2014/10/th ... y-package/

Well, the A8X has three cores vs. two on this Broadwell chip, so Intel still has a significant edge there. Especially when you consider that these chips are the bottom tier of performers in the Core line and the A8X is Apple's faster chip to-date (and is near the top of the current generation of mobile ARM chips). The graphics, on the other hand, is kind of startling; is 'Manhattan off-screen' the same test on x86 and ARM? If it is, then the iPad is out-pointing even the gruntier Haswell chip, never mind the Broadwell.

Also - although pricing for the Core M isn't public, I've read it's in the $300 range.

So it seems that A8X is an order of magnitude cheaper, certainly consumes less power, and might also be faster.

ARM is kicking some serious ass. It's a pity that architecture changes aren't an entirely smooth affair.

If you look at these benchmarks side by side with the benchmarks from Ars' iPad Air 2 review, you will see that the Yoga 3 wins everything single-threaded, usually by a large margin.

Apple has been doing great work, but so has Intel - and for a lot longer.

And you are mistaken if you think there is some inherent advantage to ARM. The instruction set really doesn't matter for two reasons. 1) x86-64 cleaned up a worst of the legacy cruft in the x86 architecture and 2) instruction decoding is the only part affected by the instruction set and that is a minuscule part of a modern Intel design.

 

[심돌산]

kinpin[/url]":jgj86gdc]I recently got my hands on Surface pro 2 for a couple of days and it's pretty clear why Microsoft made Windows RT to support ARM. It appears Intel is still struggling to copy with the heat and energy consumption on their chip-sets and from earlier reviews of Yoga 3 , even broadwell isn't going to be of much help.

Surface Pro 2 was a Haswell device and no one ever claimed that Haswell was anywhere close to ARM SoCs on power requirements. Broadwell Y is supposed to be close 4.5W TDP is pretty darn low, and even so, easily beats the A8X in single-threaded benchmarks.

Yoga 3 may be slow compared to Yoga 2, but its quite a bit faster than an iPad Air 2 on a single-threaded basis (except for graphics).

 

[DrPizza]

adamhillier[/url]":bwwrixga]Just a complete guess, but seems to me that the restricted keyboard/trackpad size with what appears to be a 'keyboard bezel' might be there so that when it's completely folded around and used in tablet mode, and you hold the device, you'll have your fingers on the actual body of it and not on the keys.

As with previous models, when it's folded all the way around, the keyboard gets disabled anyway.

 

[ichemandrew]

Core M really doesn't seem that impressive for the price. It also seems strange that it needs a fan. Even at inaudible speed, that's still another watt or two thrown away, which matters for a small battery.

 

[theoilman]

ichemandrew[/url]":35uesuut]Core M really doesn't seem that impressive for the price. It also seems strange that it needs a fan. Even at inaudible speed, that's still another watt or two thrown away, which matters for a small battery.

that's extra weight and space taken up too

 

[JamesHulsmann]

DrPizza[/url]":13yw3410]

adamhillier[/url]":13yw3410]Just a complete guess, but seems to me that the restricted keyboard/trackpad size with what appears to be a 'keyboard bezel' might be there so that when it's completely folded around and used in tablet mode, and you hold the device, you'll have your fingers on the actual body of it and not on the keys.

As with previous models, when it's folded all the way around, the keyboard gets disabled anyway.

I don't think it was a question of hitting the keys with a fear of accidently using them, as any user of the device would know that isn't possible; rather, I think it was for the "feel" when holding it as a tablet.

Or Perhaps I am wrong about what adamhilliar meant...

 

[Deleted member 1]

Good, informative and fair review.

Very annoying when companies muck about with what works e.g. keyboard and ignore some the basics of mobile devices i.e battery life.

That said one could cut Lenovo some slack here, in particular the need for function key shortcuts is a lot less in a touchscreen device, which has possibility for alternatives approaches to those type of features - and that is basically what you have to to do to optimize the compromises necessary on ultramobile devices. Also, to be fair, Apple will release a slightly tweaked version of this in a year's time, with a locked down OS and better touchpad - and see it hailed as a revolutionary new product.