Xbox One messaging falters once more with confusion over dev kit policy

Back-to-back 180s, a lot of noise, but no policy change.

Read the whole story

 

[AnniesBoobs]

chi7891[/url]":1fynqml8]That title is an odd way to frame this story. Seems overly negative. Especially since you're reporting that nothing good or bad is happening - you're reporting no change.

That's kind of the point. Martin Fuller (a MS employee) made a statement, MS then issued a statement saying the earlier statement made by their own employee was inaccurate. So, yes, nothing changed today, and yet MS needed to put out TWO statements to get us there*.

*there = nowhere

 

[Dilbert]

Microsoft has a PR problem? They've always had a PR problem. Always.

 

[LJ]

Bad messaging has been really costly this generation. Sales numbers have Sony approaching 9 million units sold with Microsoft just under 5 (with over 5 shipped).

This is surprising. No one would have expected it before e3 last year. Ms needs to focus on gamers or sell the division.

 

[AWilco]

The microsoft employee did not make a statement in a Press Release. He was asked a question in a Q&A session, which he answered to the best of his ability, but qualified with saying he wasn't sure (why).

Microsoft then release a statement quickly saying that is is inaccurate and should be disregarded.

This is not exactly get up at E3 and announce steam-like game licencing, and then withdrawing it. Or spending 6 months telling everyone kinect will always be in a XB1, and then taking it out. Those are valid u-turns worthy of comment.

I think this article is more confusing over the issue than what actually occured.

 

[OrangeCream]

Arlondiluthel[/url]":n49h553g]It's not so much an issue of poor communication from Microsoft. It's a mis-interpretation and over-sensationalization of the mis-interpreted information by the media that's really harming the Xbox One.

Is it? The full quote is:

"We were in the early stages of Xbox One looking at the idea of a retail kit that could be turned into a development kit, and vice versa," Fuller explained. "In the end, although that was a very admirable goal, it hasn't happened unfortunately. Can't tell you the specifics of exactly why not. As far as I'm aware there are no plans," he added. "I'm not aware of the reason why we didn't manage to do that."

Saying, "There are no plans" is pretty clearly saying, "I am not in charge of pushing this feature out in any reasonable time frame."

There is no mis-intepretation, merely poor product planning and staging. If someone does have plans to push the feature, it hasn't been conveyed to Mr. Fuller, or if he is aware of plans he doesn't know it's priority correctly.

 

[WaveRunner]

Dilbert[/url]":1vos79q3]Microsoft has a PR problem? They've always had a PR problem. Always.

Microsoft definitely, but Xbox didn't have anything that horrible until this past year.

 

[Louis XVI]

Arlondiluthel[/url]":tknzdwcn]It's not so much an issue of poor communication from Microsoft. It's a mis-interpretation and over-sensationalization of the mis-interpreted information by the media that's really harming the Xbox One.

When all else fails, blame the media!

 

[topham]

Microsft has wavered and flipped so many times that this is news. It's also potentially fraudulent.

 

[WaveRunner]

althaz[/url]":ruaaj83b]

AnniesBoobs[/url]":ruaaj83b]

chi7891[/url]":ruaaj83b]That title is an odd way to frame this story. Seems overly negative. Especially since you're reporting that nothing good or bad is happening - you're reporting no change.

That's kind of the point. Martin Fuller (a MS employee) made a statement, MS then issued a statement saying the earlier statement made by their own employee was inaccurate. So, yes, nothing changed today, and yet MS needed to put out TWO statements to get us there*.

*there = nowhere

MS only put out one statement. An MS employee made a mistake and his employer corrected him. Hardly worthy of an article.

I don't know about that... if it was actually in the works and meant to happen sometime soon I doubt the employee would have made such a mistake.

 

[AnniesBoobs]

althaz[/url]":1am1ksmv]

AnniesBoobs[/url]":1am1ksmv]

chi7891[/url]":1am1ksmv]That title is an odd way to frame this story. Seems overly negative. Especially since you're reporting that nothing good or bad is happening - you're reporting no change.

That's kind of the point. Martin Fuller (a MS employee) made a statement, MS then issued a statement saying the earlier statement made by their own employee was inaccurate. So, yes, nothing changed today, and yet MS needed to put out TWO statements to get us there*.

*there = nowhere

MS only put out one statement. An MS employee made a mistake and his employer corrected him. Hardly worthy of an article.

But this was an employee who was qualified to speak for his employer (or why would he be taking part in a Q&A?). Given the year MS had with regards to mixed messages and XB1, you'd think they'd give him a list of talking points beforehand with strict instructions to stick to the script.

But meh, at the end of the day nothing has changed, and this isn't something worth losing any amount of sleep over (unless you're an indie dev...sorry).

 

[jnemesh]

Sorry Xbox apologists, but MS does NOT get a free pass on this one!

First, this wasn't some random quote being taken out of context, this was at the DEVELOP CONFERENCE! When speaking to a room full of people who want to make games for your platform, an AUTHORIZED REPRESENTATIVE OF MICROSOFT made a statement stating that there are no current plans to do what Microsoft promised they would do!

Second, and most damning, is the "official" response! They didn't say, "He is mistaken, we have concrete plans to bring this feature to you"...instead he said "The comments today were inaccurate. We remain committed to ensuring the best possible solutions for developers and hobbyists to create games for Xbox One. We will share more details at a later date."

What this statement says to me is that MS has no plans at all of ever bringing this feature to their console! It sounds too much like PR double-speak! "we remain committed" is just a bullshit PR spin.

 

[Dputiger]

Arlondiluthel[/url]":1mukcbrb]It's not so much an issue of poor communication from Microsoft. It's a mis-interpretation and over-sensationalization of the mis-interpreted information by the media that's really harming the Xbox One.

I really disagree with this.

Microsoft made a promise. Today, a Microsoft employee said that no, that promise wasn't going to be kept. Sorry, wasn't happening. He wasn't vague. He wasn't unclear. The media reported it. Now Microsoft has said that employee is wrong.

There's nothing "misunderstood" about that. The media reported that Microsoft was cancelling its dev plans based on clear comments from an MS employee -- than updated those stories to reflect that no, MS wasn't doing that after all.

The *essence* of poor communication is having to amend official statements from your own employees because they aren't accurate. And what's MS stand accused of here? Poor communication.

 

[Vycia]

Microsoft has seemed hesitant to thoroughly describe any of their Xbox plans from the beginning, except for the bad ones. Naturally, people think, "why the heck don't the clear everything up by telling us what they're going to do?" It's easy to see how one might leap from there to the conclusion that people wouldn't like the full story, so best not to let it out.

Not to say there aren't good reasons for keeping it a secret, such as contractual obligations with others companies (might result in NDA), or it's simply not fully fleshed out yet. Still, at this point they ought to realize that secretiveness is going to lead to pessimistic assumptions.

 

[bbf]

Well, as it is right now more than 7 months after release, Fuller's comments are true. Currently there IS NO way to develop on an off-the-shelf Xbox One.

Call me a cynic, but if Microsoft makes the capacity to debug on-console available the day before they discontinue the Xbox One, they can say they kept their promise. I doubt that will happen, but it would not make the newest Microsoft statement untrue.

I'll believe the support exists when I see it... in my experience when no target date is set, and all that is said is "just wait for our future announcement", things are usually uncertain to be released. Even when a date is set for a feature that doesn't make much money for the parent company, chances are it will be late.

 

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

The weird thing is that Microsoft has plenty of people who deal with whiny corporate customers who have substantial money riding on product roadmaps and carefully planned deployments and product lifecycles and similar.

Do they just not talk or is xbox-related communication a bit of a mess because more of the plan than they would like is being improvised on short notice?

 

[althaz]

bbf[/url]":1v46h4yz]Well, as it is right now more than 7 months after release, Fuller's comments are true. Currently there IS NO way to develop on an off-the-shelf Xbox One.

Call me a cynic, but if Microsoft makes the capacity to debug on-console available the day before they discontinue the Xbox One, they can say they kept their promise. I doubt that will happen, but it would not make the newest Microsoft statement untrue.

I'll believe the support exists when I see it... in my experience when no target date is set, and all that is said is "just wait for our future announcement", things are usually uncertain to be released. Even when a date is set for a feature that doesn't make much money for the parent company, chances are it will be late.

You can already put your XBox into dev mode, just FYI. It's not supported, but it is possible (or at least it was).

 

[Aslan7]

EDIT: CQLanik below pointed out that the article does in fact mention the Kinect. I was at work focusing on other things and I guess I missed that.

Interesting article, but while you're mentioning two, why don't you mention the third major flipflop? Namely the Xbox 1 required a videocamera and live mic in your home listening and watching 24/7 ? I mean, was the plan from the start to sell live access to peoples homes off to the Feds and other interested parties, or were they just going to work on monetizing that revenue stream later? Have you looked at the latest Snowden emails? 90% of the small sample of 160,000 emails collected were not from official targets of surveillance. People (more than 160 organizations, including the ACLU) are drawing some interesting parallels to the surveillance of Martin Luther King in the 1970's which continued to the time of his death, not that any of the Feds watching him saw anything.

One of the nicer things Microsoft did this console generation was fail in their DRM scheme that would take away your rights to sell your own physical games, and relax their demands that the Xbox one be connected to the internet all the time or they'd kill your game without saving it.

 

[Frodo Douchebaggins]

Back to back 180s? I guess you might call it an… Xbox 360

 

[Darkness1231]

Will the retail version of the X1 be a viable development system? No is the correct answer - if you assume that the game being developed is exclusive to the the X1, a huge AAA game, any game that pushes the hardware to the maximum or is focused on features that are not fully fleshed out currently.

However, for many smaller game projects the X1 would be viable. Learning how to access the file system, access the Xbox store and for many of the irritating but important details of getting an indie (generic term, sorry) developer to self produce something for sale over the store. It is important not to lose sight of the actual target, or the differences a development box has over the retail box. At the very least the developer box has more debugging available and more memory to support it.

Both answers are true. But if MS is to actually compete with Sony for the Indie game developers games they have to be able to give the same answers. Which may or may not be true, regardless of the back-spin they just published. However, if they are another year or two behind Sony in delivery of the promise ... they might as well not bother.

 

[daysd01]

Arlondiluthel[/url]":17mv3fol]It's not so much an issue of poor communication from Microsoft. It's a mis-interpretation and over-sensationalization of the mis-interpreted information by the media that's really harming the Xbox One.

Exactly. The media just "misinterpreted" Microsoft when they said you would have to be connected to the internet, Microsoft meant to say that you wouldn't need to be connected! it just took them a while to clear up the media's misinterpretation of Microsoft's non-misrepresentation.

 

[ardent]

Frodo Douchebaggins[/url]":25u5cfs9]Back to back 180s? I guess you might call it an… Xbox 360

I rate this response 1.21 jiggawhats.

 

[Beautiful Ninja]

Frodo Douchebaggins[/url]":t9mnr2sj]Back to back 180s? I guess you might call it an… Xbox 360

Remember when Microsoft called their second Xbox the Xbox 360 because they didn't want people thinking it was worse than a Playstation 3? Then they called their third Xbox the Xbox One.

 

[althaz]

Beautiful Ninja[/url]":1ima4ioj]

Frodo Douchebaggins[/url]":1ima4ioj]Back to back 180s? I guess you might call it an… Xbox 360

Remember when Microsoft called their second Xbox the Xbox 360 because they didn't want people thinking it was worse than a Playstation 3? Then they called their third Xbox the Xbox One.

The 360 naming convention made sense. It was and is a bit dumb, but it made sense. XBox One is just a stupid name for something. Obviously they couldn't call it Xbox 3, but they could've called it "Xbox 720", "Xbox 1080", Xbox Next or any number of other things that weren't dumb. Still, I quite like the console, just has a stupid name.

 

[lyme]

Dilbert[/url]":2d12zrop]Microsoft has a PR problem? They've always had a PR problem. Always.

Most large companies do. When staff comment without knowing the full story, even if in an unofficial matter, it can easily muddy things.

 

[Aslan7]

althaz[/url]":2e9r38kp]

Beautiful Ninja[/url]":2e9r38kp]

Frodo Douchebaggins[/url]":2e9r38kp]Back to back 180s? I guess you might call it an… Xbox 360

Remember when Microsoft called their second Xbox the Xbox 360 because they didn't want people thinking it was worse than a Playstation 3? Then they called their third Xbox the Xbox One.

The 360 naming convention made sense. It was and is a bit dumb, but it made sense. XBox One is just a stupid name for something. Obviously they couldn't call it Xbox 3, but they could've called it "Xbox 720", "Xbox 1080", Xbox Next or any number of other things that weren't dumb. Still, I quite like the console, just has a stupid name.

The Xbox 1 name fits. 1 box for doing multiple things, games movies, music, short videos. It couldn't be the Xbox 720 because everyone knows TVs aren't any good unless they're 1080 (Some sarcasm intended, it depends of course on the content). It also couldn't be the Xbox 1080 because most games are only hitting 800-900 lines of vertical resolution, the Xbox 1 has to internally upscale the game leading to everything on the console being blurred, and people would have called it fraud for being called the Xbox 1080. Their PR has dodged that issue nicely. They had to call it something and Xbox 1 is a pretty good name. I can't wait until we Steamboxes on store shelves so we finally have something that shows console gamers how awesome it is to game in 1080p and beyond.

 

[koolraap]

It appears instead that, once more, Microsoft isn't fully in control of its own messaging. The company issued an official statement saying, "The comments today were inaccurate. We remain committed to ensuring the best possible solutions for developers and hobbyists to create games for Xbox One. We will share more details at a later date." So it seems that the ability to use retail Xbox Ones as dev units is going to materialize at some point after all.

Dr Pizza, I drew a different conclusion from that statement, it says create for not create with.

 

[y*!|$7v0Qn]

Aslan7[/url]":2jbsjewh]Interesting article, but while you're mentioning two, why don't you mention the third major flipflop? Namely the Xbox 1 required a videocamera and live mic in your home listening and watching 24/7 ? I mean, was the plan from the start to sell live access to peoples homes off to the Feds and other interested parties, or were they just going to work on monetizing that revenue stream later? Have you looked at the latest Snowden emails? 90% of the small sample of 160,000 emails collected were not from official targets of surveillance. People (more than 160 organizations, including the ACLU) are drawing some interesting parallels to the surveillance of Martin Luther King in the 1970's which continued to the time of his death, not that any of the Feds watching him saw anything.

One of the nicer things Microsoft did this console generation was fail in their DRM scheme that would take away your rights to sell your own physical games, and relax their demands that the Xbox one be connected to the internet all the time or they'd kill your game without saving it.

The article did mention the flipflopping on the Kinect and on their intended DRM scheme. The article didn't editorialize on possible NSA uses of the Kinect, but it did mention it.

 

[Aslan7]

CQLanik[/url]":2dygu93y]
The article did mention the flipflopping on the Kinect and on their intended DRM scheme. The article didn't editorialize on possible NSA uses of the Kinect, but it did mention it.

You're correct CQ, and thanks for pointing that out. I was reading the article while focusing more on work.

 

[Rosyna]

During the Q&A, the MS representative said, "This feature is not on the roadmap for any currently planned updates." MS PR then said, "It's not on the roadmap for any currently planned updates but it is on the roadmap for some unplanned update sometime in the future. Maybe"

 

[kindakrazy]

althaz[/url]":i9dmsiqy]

Beautiful Ninja[/url]":i9dmsiqy]

Frodo Douchebaggins[/url]":i9dmsiqy]Back to back 180s? I guess you might call it an… Xbox 360

Remember when Microsoft called their second Xbox the Xbox 360 because they didn't want people thinking it was worse than a Playstation 3? Then they called their third Xbox the Xbox One.

The 360 naming convention made sense. It was and is a bit dumb, but it made sense. XBox One is just a stupid name for something. Obviously they couldn't call it Xbox 3, but they could've called it "Xbox 720", "Xbox 1080", Xbox Next or any number of other things that weren't dumb. Still, I quite like the console, just has a stupid name.

Given what's happened, they really should have called it the XBox 180.

 

[GhostRed]

As a PS fan, I have to say, it's nice to see the blind fandom of Xbox finally shot down by a somewhat Sony-like move.

Yep, we'll have that feature... here it is! isn't it great!.. now you can't have it anymore, and we won't explain why.

 

[lowlymarine]

I wish this were a new problem for Microsoft, or restricted to the Xbox division. I still have burned into my mind when a Microsoft employee said in an interview that all Windows Phone 7 devices would be upgraded to WP8. Microsoft took a 'neither confirm nor deny' stance right up until they extended their middle finger to all of us that bought WP7 devices (especially the not even 6 month old, supposedly flagship Lumia 900) at Build.

 

[guilmant]

GhostRed[/url]":2fxubj8f]Sony-like move

Yeah, remember Linux on PS3?

lyme[/url]":2fxubj8f]
Most large companies do. When staff comment without knowing the full story, even if in an unofficial matter, it can easily muddy things.

Precisely. The guy is asked something about stuff he obviously isn't actually deeply involved in and thus gives an inaccurate statement, probably to the best of his knowledge, though.
Subsequently, bashing people on the interwebz and overreacting media make a big fuss about it. So, Microsoft needs to put it right in an official statement, which's content in turn is heavily doubted by aforementioned people.

It's not like the president of the whole division - like once Don Mattrick - who should damn well know what's going on and what he is talking about has made such a statement.

So, no, nothing actually happened. At all.

That said, I'd be hugely disappointed if the promise was indeed put on ice.
Angering developers is never a good move for a software and/or hardware company.

 

[kazeNilrem]

The issue of communication (or lack of) has been plaguing Microsoft since even before the E3 reveal of the console. It was telling when during the E3 conference, there had been developers that were out of the loop with regards to the design decisions on Microsoft's part. There was a sense that not everyone at Microsoft fully understood what was actually being discussed. Personally though, I believe that one of the main contributors to the Xbox's early missteps was due to Don Mattrick. His interviews at the time were pretty appalling and only added to the confusion. Not sure how many people remember the cringeworthy interview where he essentiually said, "Fortunately we have a product for those without connectivity (online) and it is called the 360". That is not something one should be saying especially prior to the consoles release.

Granted, he is now with Zynga which well... does not require any additional comment. But this situation just spews E3 reveal problems. I do not know what the issue is when it comes to Microsoft but between their PR and their information overall, there is a need for transparency and clear messages. That is why the Playstation 4 (one of the reasons) did so well is because other than a few minor issues, they were very clear (like the sharing of games video). So now we are left with a situation where we have an official response that the information was inaccurate and sometime down the line, there will be an answer.

Companies need to remember, we need clarity. If there is no clarity and plenty of vagueness, it comes off as dishonest and perhaps we are simply being deceived. Best bet is simply be upfront and honest because this needs to stop.