Xbox’s new “8 strikes” moderation judges cheating and profanity equally harshly

Eight strikes = one-year suspension; "egregious" infractions can cause permanent bans.

See full article...

 

[freaq]

You would say cheating would be higher in the strike list then 1
I would say cheating in a multiplayer game is bullying, its destroying the fun of others in that game.

 

[otterbox]

Do they actually list what <profanity> is somewhere?
Think that would vary widely by language, region etc

As a Canadian, that can vary by province. And let's not even start with some Aussie insults. Acceptable in home country, but maybe not across geographic lines in some cases

How is that even approached

 

[EnPeaSea]

Suspended and banned accounts will still be able to play previously downloaded single-player games on their Xbox consoles. They won't be able to use any features that require a connection to Xbox's online services, though, including redownloading previous purchases or making new purchases from the Xbox Store.

Seems that they would also be prevented from playing single-player campaigns of games that have constant network check in, like Halo Infinite.

(Silly EnPeaSea! No one plays Halo Infinite for the campaign!)

 

[Aleamapper]

You would say cheating would be higher in the strike list then 1
I would say cheating in a multiplayer game is bullying, its destroying the fun of others in that game.

If Microsoft rank cheating the same as hate-speech in terms of the timeout you get (which I think would be entirely appropriate) there's the danger that concern trolls and dog-whistlers start shouting about Microsoft saying that cheating and the use of hate-speech are equal in terms morals or the societal harm they do.

I think ranking them differently is about optics and avoiding dumb arguments from idiots.

 

[misterjim]

Forgive my ignorance, but how does MSFT know what someone said? Is all of it recorded?

 

[heartburnkid]

They won't be able to use any features that require a connection to Xbox's online services, though, including redownloading previous purchases

This is the only part of any of this I have a problem with. It has never sat well with me that a company can take away your access to something you "own".

OK, it's not the only part. Not sure why they count cheating on the same level as profanity. Cheating should be at least 2 strikes.

 

[archtop]

That "artist interpretation" looks AI generated. Just saying......................

The fingers look too accurate.

 

[DOOManiac]

So it's okay to violently smash someone's head into the curb, causing their brains to splatter all over the pavement, then proceed to cut their buddy in half with a chainsaw, while all the main characters yell profanity. But if YOU say "shit" into your microphone, you get a 24 hour ban? This makes no sense.

I'm all for banning cheaters, harassers, etc. (IMO the strikes should be much higher for each).

But policing swearing? That's just childish. Perhaps if it was tied to the rating of the game being played - an M-rated game would not be monitored for simple swearing; a T-rated game would catch f-bombs; an E-rated game would look for everything? (And then we step into localization hell where we have to manage that across cultures and languages...)

Also, expect a high-profile Scunthorpe problem in 3... 2...

 

[Fuzzypiggy]

Do they actually list what <profanity> is somewhere?
Think that would vary widely by language, region etc

As a Canadian, that can vary by province. And let's not even start with some Aussie insults. Acceptable in home country, but maybe not across geographic lines in some cases

How is that even approached

Exactly, some words like "bastard" in the US where it's light word but here the UK it's considered a serious insult to someone to call someone that. Then we will use words like c**k, c**t and f**ker in very light hearted ways among working blokes, they're considered very friendly insults when another bloke does something stupid.

 

[reallynotnick]

Profanity is a strike? Who will be left on Xbox Live?

 

[ERIFNOMI]

Do they actually list what <profanity> is somewhere?
Think that would vary widely by language, region etc

As a Canadian, that can vary by province. And let's not even start with some Aussie insults. Acceptable in home country, but maybe not across geographic lines in some cases

How is that even approached

The example used above is for having profanity in the user's gamertag, which I'm sure is against the rules already.

If it's just profanity in general, well, that would be pretty fucking stupid. The games you're playing are probably filled with profanity. Anything that was targeted at another person would probably fall into harassment or hate speech, which are worth more strikes. Seems reasonable enough.

 

[heartburnkid]

Exactly, some words like "bastard" in the US where it's light word but here the UK it's considered a serious insult to someone to call someone that. Then we will use words like c**k, c**t and f**ker in very light hearted ways among working blokes, they're considered very friendly insults when another bloke does something stupid.

Cock and fucker are increasingly lighthearted in the US as well. C**t is still super taboo, though, and tends to be looked at as a slur towards women.

 

[Drum]

Depending on how "Bullying" is interpreted I feel like they should be swapping it with cheating. Or just valuing Cheating as the most strikes possible. Harrassment/Bullying/Profanity can all be spur of the moment bursts of anger that a short break might actually cause somebody to rarely think about. Hate speech can be too, but it rises more directly to a level where people shouldn't be welcome on the platform anyways.

Cheating is a willful, pre-meditated decision to degrade the experience of others. I can't really square away with letting cheaters get off with a one day ban for their first TWO offenses.

Basically, I'd be totally fine with giving hate speech or cheating minimum of a week ban to start. Maybe give them 4-2-1 strikes or something for subsequent violations.

 

[evanTO]

But the system's time-based "eight strikes and you're out" system...

The system's system? I think what is means here is "the system's process" or something like that.

 

[Fabermetrics]

You would say cheating would be higher in the strike list then 1
I would say cheating in a multiplayer game is bullying, its destroying the fun of others in that game.

I think it depends on how they determine cheating. If they have actual proof, sure. If its just mass reporting from salty people on the other team, thats a terribly broken system. If you have the fortune of playing against people who happen to all be in a discord coordinating, and they all report you at the same time, youre likely to get a undeserved ban for simply being better than griefers. Hate speech feels like it would be more cut and dry via a chat log. I suspect theres little human moderation here.

 

[HiroTheProtagonist]

So it's okay to violently smash someone's head into the curb, causing their brains to splatter all over the pavement, then proceed to cut their buddy in half with a chainsaw, while all the main characters yell profanity. But if YOU say "shit" into your microphone, you get a 24 hour ban? This makes no sense.

I'm all for banning cheaters, harassers, etc. (IMO the strikes should be much higher for each).

But policing swearing? That's just childish. Perhaps if it was tied to the rating of the game being played - an M-rated game would not be monitored for simple swearing; a T-rated game would catch f-bombs; an E-rated game would look for everything? (And then we step into localization hell where we have to manage that across cultures and languages...)

Also, expect a high-profile Scunthorpe problem in 3... 2...

I get the feeling that it will mostly be enforced for E/T rated games, and only when it becomes a nuisance. Like, if one were playing something like Overcooked 2 multiplayer and constantly shouting FUCK it might trigger the system, but I really doubt something like Halo or Gears of War is going to actually police profanity.

Realistically, this stuff will probably only apply to egregious offenders, because Microsoft knows that regular enforcement would drive most of their users from the platform.

 

[Andrewcw]

I'm assuming this is all only under the internal Xbox messaging system. And not voice. And hopefully not automated and where the user has to report the WHOLE conversation with the other user. By using a report tool built within the Xbox system.

So PSN (Sony) uses a stricter system. After 5 strikes you are generally out. I'm not sure why people are making a big deal of this. If you're even more consistent with the same console after making new accounts. They can even Console ban.

So in my personal experience on PSN. When some Kid or Manchild decides to message me after a game with profane text. It puts a smile to my face because all i do is press the Report button. And eventually I get a message back on my console stating the problem has been resolved. Which results into 1 day to 3 months of being banned off the platform depending their level. And eventually they just get accounts cancelled.

 

[HiroTheProtagonist]

and how does one report someone? Log off and take the time to fill out a form?

This feels alot more like PR than true action

I haven't used Xbox Live in a hot minute, but most online games these days have built-in reporting systems. I imagine XBL has something in the overlay menu that would allow a user to report a cheater/griefer/sailor-mouthed user without leaving the game.

 

[ERIFNOMI]

and how does one report someone? Log off and take the time to fill out a form?

This feels alot more like PR than true action

Hasn't Xbox had a built in report feature since basically forever?

 

[Mordics]

So it's okay to violently smash someone's head into the curb, causing their brains to splatter all over the pavement, then proceed to cut their buddy in half with a chainsaw, while all the main characters yell profanity. But if YOU say "shit" into your microphone, you get a 24 hour ban? This makes no sense.

I'm all for banning cheaters, harassers, etc. (IMO the strikes should be much higher for each).

But policing swearing? That's just childish. Perhaps if it was tied to the rating of the game being played - an M-rated game would not be monitored for simple swearing; a T-rated game would catch f-bombs; an E-rated game would look for everything? (And then we step into localization hell where we have to manage that across cultures and languages...)

Also, expect a high-profile Scunthorpe problem in 3... 2...

I don't think the specifics of what constitutes a violation of any of the items listed is in writing. The community standards linked are mostly general fluff that doesn't really get into what you have to do to be deemed to have violated them.

Policing swearing is a bit childish but there are a lot games aimed at small children. These guidelines leave plenty of room to police games aimed at younger kids more tightly than games aimed at a mature audience.

That said with that leeway will come miscalculations and plenty of them. Moderation is hard especially in a real time environment like gaming.

 

[DRJlaw]

As one Reddit commenter memorably put it, "it sounds like I can call someone a fucking c*nt once every 4 months and only ever receive 24 hour bans."

Why, yes, yes you can. If someone graduates a punishment system and allows for "forgiveness" then it is possible to stay under those thresholds and not suffer more severe punishments. That doesn't justify imposing the death penalty for everything.

Points drop off of your driver's license.
Prior offenses may only be considered if they were within a certain period of time.
That officer may not give you a ticket if you haven't been stopped in the last 5 years.

Nobody's going to devise a perfect system that stops that deviant that wants to maximize how many times they can "call someone a fucking c*nt" without being inconvenienced. Inconvenience is relative, and blowing up on everyone because some occasional sociopath may get right up to the line hurts the community more than it helps it.

 

[mpat]

Not that I'm likely to ever buy an Xbox, but these rules are silly. IMHO cheating is at least 4 points so you get a single yellow card before being ejected, and profanity just shouldn't be worthy of points at all.

The point about languages occurred to me as well, and reminded me about silly exchanges on Battle.net back in the day. Blizzard had an autocensor that would replace bad words with ****, which caused hilarious exchanges when you were speaking anything other than English. The sensor would, at least initially, match on parts of words, so a certain four letter combination in the middle of an innocent word would get ****ed out.

 

[freaq]

If Microsoft rank cheating the same as hate-speech in terms of the timeout you get (which I think would be entirely appropriate) there's the danger that concern trolls and dog-whistlers start shouting about Microsoft saying that cheating and the use of hate-speech are equal in terms morals or the societal harm they do.

I think ranking them differently is about optics and avoiding dumb arguments from idiots.

I mean hate speach is objectively worse
But profanity imho is not nearly as bad

So i’d put
Profanity as 1 strike
cheating as 2 strikes
Hatespeach at 3 strikes

The latter is also legally enforceable in many countries, so it makes sense to elevate that.

I do also wonder what profanity constitutes a strike,
A casual “fuck!” Or “damnit” after you get sniped
Or a full fat tirade?

 

[Sulne]

Exactly, some words like "bastard" in the US where it's light word but here the UK it's considered a serious insult to someone to call someone that. Then we will use words like c**k, c**t and f**ker in very light hearted ways among working blokes, they're considered very friendly insults when another bloke does something stupid.

Not really, at least for me. Several times I've been called a 'cheeky bastard' by friends as we play. Just like the Hale and Pace bollocks sketch it all comes down to context- calling someone a fucking bastard in an angry voice is not the same as saying it almost under your breath when said git blows you up, but unless whoever is judging knows that difference (and not just reading a transcript out of context) you might get a strike for something that is just banter that someone takes offense to.

 

[bickle2]

This is the only part of any of this I have a problem with. It has never sat well with me that a company can take away your access to something you "own".

OK, it's not the only part. Not sure why they count cheating on the same level as profanity. Cheating should be at least 2 strikes.

Yes, they correctly saw that it was likely to result in lawsuits that with juries they were going to win. And also that the policy did nothing to stop people from being jerks, and everything to chase them away from spending money on Xbox

 

[Khakionion]

The system's system? I think what is means here is "the system's process" or something like that.

I’d replace the second “system” with “rule,” since that’s generally what comprises a system.

 

[citizencoyote]

Given that it sounds like they won't issue strikes until a live human has reviewed the reports (and that less than 1 percent of players will ever see a strike), I would assume random/occasional profanity would not result in a strike (or that 1 percent figure would be more like 80 percent). I hope strikes for profanity would only be issued if someone goes on a tear and starts cursing a blue streak that would make a sailor blush.

 

[Mad Klingon]

Forgive my ignorance, but how does MSFT know what someone said? Is all of it recorded?

My assumption these days is if you are using anyone's in game system, then yes, they are recording everything. How else will they know which targeted ads to send your way? Plus profit from selling the data collected to others.

 

[Grok]

You would say cheating would be higher in the strike list then 1
I would say cheating in a multiplayer game is bullying, its destroying the fun of others in that game.

Agreed, and make it be 1 strike per person cheated against per incident. Cheat once in 5v5? 10 strikes, counting yourself.

 

[wayloncovil]

I don't play Xbox, but my first question was... What happens if someone is reported as a form of harassment?

 

[vlam]

In my experience, cheaters don't stop cheating. So the 1 day ban for the first infraction isn't a big deal, tbh. Cheaters aren't gonna stop after 1 time. They're gonna keep cheating, hopefully keep getting caught, and quickly work their way up to long suspensions.

That said, just ban cheaters from multiplayer games. Any of them. Get caught cheating, you gone. I don't care if you slither back to your 9th playthrough of Skyrim or decide to pick up elden ring, just get out of my multiplayer games with that cheating shit.

 

[MrDweezil]

They launched party chat like 15 years ago and I haven't heard a word from someone I don't know since.

 

[karinto]

Anti-cheating should be enforced by the game itself anyway. Xbox (the online service) doesn't have access to all the detailed button press or game engine stats that would identify a cheater.

 

[freaq]

I don't play Xbox, but my first question was... What happens if someone is reported as a form of harassment?

This is pretty common, usually there are logs of what happened, and if one person keeps submitting invalid complaints (which is detectsble) that is in itself harassment.

 

[sword_9mm]

Do they actually list what <profanity> is somewhere?
Think that would vary widely by language, region etc

As a Canadian, that can vary by province. And let's not even start with some Aussie insults. Acceptable in home country, but maybe not across geographic lines in some cases

How is that even approached

Yeah that one is dumb imo. Does XBL have like lobbies one can hide in that prohibit profanity? I mean wtf. SHIT!