Windows 11 - First Impressions

[hestermofet]

Agreed. With Happysin.

This is purely an aesthetic thing though, people will never agree on this. The start button in the middle is wrong on an objective level.

What is the purpose of that change? To rip-off Chrome OS? It's called Fitts' Law, not Fitts' Suggestion. I really wish Microsoft would stop aping design cliches from web designers, the people in the software industry who are the ABSOLUTE WORST at UI/UX.

 

[Paladin]

Yeah, if they are going to put the start button in an unpredictable location, it needs to be way bigger. Like, just make it take up all unused space on the left side of the pinned/active icons and make the right side of them something else useful so the whole bar is functional barring a little dead space for context clicks or whatever.

 

[whoisit]

True the default centered position for the Start button is odd, but it's easy enough to put back on the left hand side.

Start -> Settings -> Personalization -> Taskbar behaviors -> Taskbar alignment -> Change Center to Left.

It's not like you have to do a registry edit every time you install an update or upgrade video drivers. Personally I think they should have had more options than Center or Left. Maybe have a Right, or even a Random Evil that changes the location of the Start button every time you log on.

 

[hongooi]

True the default centered position for the Start button is odd, but it's easy enough to put back on the left hand side.

Start -> Settings -> Personalization -> Taskbar behaviors -> Taskbar alignment -> Change Center to Left.

It's not like you have to do a registry edit every time you install an update or upgrade video drivers. Personally I think they should have had more options than Center or Left. Maybe have a Right, or even a Random Evil that changes the location of the Start button every time you log on.

Finally, a use for the <marquee> tag!

 

[hestermofet]

True the default centered position for the Start button is odd, but it's easy enough to put back on the left hand side.

Start -> Settings -> Personalization -> Taskbar behaviors -> Taskbar alignment -> Change Center to Left.

It's not like you have to do a registry edit every time you install an update or upgrade video drivers. Personally I think they should have had more options than Center or Left. Maybe have a Right, or even a Random Evil that changes the location of the Start button every time you log on.

Random Evil option should be move the button on every mousedown event.

I get that it's easy to change, but most people use the defaults, and many people won't realize that it's something that can be changed.

 

[Semi On]

While I fundamentally agree with the argument about a central interface entity being in the same place at all time, I figure people that actually click on the Start button instead of just pressing the window key aren't exactly optimizing their work flow anyway.

 

[Jonathon]

While I fundamentally agree with the argument about a central interface entity being in the same place at all time, I figure people that actually click on the Start button instead of just pressing the window key aren't exactly optimizing their work flow anyway.

Depends-- if my hand's already on the mouse, it's not necessarily faster to reach over and hit the Windows key than it is to jam the mouse in the corner and click the start button, especially if I'm going to click something that's pinned rather than immediately start typing to search.

(I'm actually kind of surprised that Windows doesn't respond to a click in the lower right by opening the start menu anyways-- that's the kind of little hidden optimization that Microsoft has done in the past. But the spec for the new taskbar seems to have been written by people who've never actually used Windows before, so not too surprising, I guess.)

 

[Mordac]

Also.. who the heck thought that right justifying the time/date display in the bottom corner of the taskbar would be a good idea? That looks so utterly bad....

The whole taskbar thing feels weird. If you're going for a mac like doc, just commit and sit it all in the centre. Putting the icons in the centre, dead space on the left and the date stuff hanging out the right is just weird.

 

[Zich]

I just wish ungrouping was still an option. I mean, surely that will be added back, right? I can't imagine having a bunch of visual studio instances, etc., open, and having to hover over each group of stuff every. single. time.

 

[ffifield]

Are ratings gone from Windows Explorer or have I not figured out how to make them work. You can still choose Ratings to be one of the columns but you don't get stars any more, just text that says 1-star, 2-stars, etc. Also, I've not seen a way to make new ratings.

 

[Paladin]

Are ratings gone from Windows Explorer or have I not figured out how to make them work. You can still choose Ratings to be one of the columns but you don't get stars any more, just text that says 1-star, 2-stars, etc. Also, I've not seen a way to make new ratings.

I'm just surprised to see someone actually mention that.

 

[rodalpho]

I just wish ungrouping was still an option. I mean, surely that will be added back, right? I can't imagine having a bunch of visual studio instances, etc., open, and having to hover over each group of stuff every. single. time.

My feeling is all the features missing from Windows 10 will be added back in over time. Question is how much time. I plan to reevaluate Win11 in its first major patch, personally.

 

[Deleted member 839264]

I just wish ungrouping was still an option. I mean, surely that will be added back, right? I can't imagine having a bunch of visual studio instances, etc., open, and having to hover over each group of stuff every. single. time.

I am happy with WIN11, except the auto-grouping above. At least I need to be able to group or ungroup as needed. Assuming WIN11 knows best what works for me, is somewhat naïve. The user needs to be able to ungroup, or regroup given his needs.

the best solution is to let me group them from the beginning, and use this as my default for the next time!

I do understand some people have too many tabs open on the taskbar, and need some organization. A lock-down can never be the right solution though.

 

[nimro]

Upgraded my main PC to 11 tonight. After the upgrade my taskbar still looked like the one from 10, the only difference being that the Start menu no longer worked. An hour or two of frustrated troubleshooting later, I've reverted it to 10 (well done MS for that feature btw) and will try again after the next patch Tuesday. Shame, as I rather like the look of 11!

 

[hestermofet]

Has MS indicated anything about how they are rolling out automatic updates of Windows 11? Is it based on geographic region... computer specs... any sort of idea at all which computers get it when? I have a Surface Go 2 that's running Windows in S Mode, so I can't run the Installation Assistant, but I'm looking forward to upgrading it to Windows 11.

I've reverted it to 10 (well done MS for that feature btw

Yeah, I've used it in the past to rollback half yearly Feature Updates, and was highly impressed. They used to allow you to do it on demand for like 30 days after an update in case you changed your mind... I dunno if they still allow that.

 

[Jonathon]

Has MS indicated anything about how they are rolling out automatic updates of Windows 11? Is it based on geographic region... computer specs... any sort of idea at all which computers get it when? I have a Surface Go 2 that's running Windows in S Mode, so I can't run the Installation Assistant, but I'm looking forward to upgrading it to Windows 11.

Windows 10 does not automatically update to Windows 11 at this time.

When it shows up as an opt-in update in Windows Update varies by device (there's a notification that appears in Settings when it does), and Microsoft doesn't go into any more detail than just "beginning in October 2021 and will continue into 2022".

 

[Ulf]

When it shows up as an opt-in update in Windows Update varies by device (there's a notification that appears in Settings when it does), and Microsoft doesn't go into any more detail than just "beginning in October 2021 and will continue into 2022".

Windows update explicitly states:
"Great news—your PC meets the minimum system requirements for Windows 11. Specific timing for when it will be offered can vary as we get it ready for you."
"Note: Some Windows 10 features aren't available in Windows 11. Certain apps and features may have additional requirements."

 

[Deleted member 14629]

My wife's Surface Pro 7 came (woo clearance sales) and I updated it to Windows 11 last night. Annoyingly, I could not just install Windows 11 out the gate. I had to go through all the Windows 10 updates first, as the Win11 installer kept bombing out. Ended up taking way longer than required, but it's there now.

It will be interesting to see this weekend how she reacts to Win11, since she hasn't used it at all before. Of course, the fact that she's coming from a failing Surface Pro 3 means the hardware itself will give her a better experience.

Also, thank goodness I had everything synched up to OneDrive. She's still going to have to reinstall some apps, but at least her documents are exactly how they were before.

 

[Entegy]

I really do not like the new emoji style of the smileys in the latest Insider Preview. The smileys look like goofier idiot versions of Google emoji.

The rest of the emoji are fine though. I thought the thick outline of the Windows 10 emoji were unique and good looking but I can live without them. Just fix the smileys.

Most importantly though, Microsoft's emoji is still a proper character compared to Apple's PDF images, meaning they can be italicized and you can still make the flexed biceps emoji arm pump.

 

[Deleted member 14629]

I really do not like the new emoji style of the smileys in the latest Insider Preview. The smileys look like goofier idiot versions of Google emoji.

The rest of the emoji are fine though. I thought the thick outline of the Windows 10 emoji were unique and good looking but I can live without them. Just fix the smileys.

Most importantly though, Microsoft's emoji is still a proper character compared to Apple's PDF images, meaning they can be italicized and you can still make the flexed biceps emoji arm pump.

Well now I have to see what happens if you try to bold them or other:

Underline and strikethrough work, but no bold.

 

[Wheels Of Confusion]

I really do not like the new emoji style of the smileys in the latest Insider Preview. The smileys look like goofier idiot versions of Google emoji.

The rest of the emoji are fine though. I thought the thick outline of the Windows 10 emoji were unique and good looking but I can live without them. Just fix the smileys.

Most importantly though, Microsoft's emoji is still a proper character compared to Apple's PDF images, meaning they can be italicized and you can still make the flexed biceps emoji arm pump.

Well now I have to see what happens if you try to bold them or other:

Underline and strikethrough work, but no bold.

Actually bold is a little thicker. Look at the wrists.

 

[IntelInside]

My first impression was significant performance boost in GeekBench 5 on my hardware that was massively performance regressed in Windows 10.

3rd impression: L3 Cache Latency in AIDA64 benchmark, but everything else (L1, L2 memory READ | WRITE | COPY ) showing exceptionally well.

Fifth impression - NIC Teaming does not work even though it did in Win10, not even with Intel's ProSet utility tools, teaming two NICs together results in a disabled TEAM that won't enable in Windows 11.


Sixth impression - ZIP File decompression is painfully slow. I checked the Task manager and I think it might be using just one single thread/core.

------
tested hardware:

OS: Windows 11 Pro for Workstations
Previous OS: Windows 10 Pro for Workstations
Motherboard: MSI X399 MEG Creation
CPU: Ryzen Threadripper 2990WX
RAM: 64GB DDR4 3200 CL14
Storage: ADATA NVME
Video: Radeon RX 6800 XT

 

[Skoop]

My impression is that this Windows 11 situation is a pain in the ass.

Now that I've gotten that out of the way, I'll say that I've been asking after hardware upgrades in a couple of the other forums in order to be able to run it. And looking around for available motherboards and CPUs.

Seems to me that so much of it is aimed at gamers. Shit's just way too beefy for what I need in a desktop. I may just stick with my current Windows 10 install until it just dies.

 

[Paladin]

Yeah, I would not worry. The only meaningful improvement is a small/debatable upgrade from DirectStorage that is 99.99% for games which don't really exist to use it yet. The cosmetic changes are a mix of nice and nasty and confusing so if nothing else it is worth waiting as patches fix the things have been left out or are buggy and wrong. I would not rush to buy anything to make it work, especially since hardware is hard to get right now anyway. In a year or two things will be much better hardware availability-wise and Windows 11 will be much more mature and complete. You won't miss out on anything and Windows 10 will still be just fine for a long while still.

 

[skazz]

Yeah, I would not worry. The only meaningful improvement is a small/debatable upgrade from DirectStorage that is 99.99% for games which don't really exist to use it yet. The cosmetic changes are a mix of nice and nasty and confusing so if nothing else it is worth waiting as patches fix the things have been left out or are buggy and wrong. I would not rush to buy anything to make it work, especially since hardware is hard to get right now anyway. In a year or two things will be much better hardware availability-wise and Windows 11 will be much more mature and complete. You won't miss out on anything and Windows 10 will still be just fine for a long while still.

Presumably DirectStorage is there to allow SSD streaming tech from the latest console games to be used on Windows 11 PCs too?
Don't you expect console ports in the coming years to leverage DirectStorage?

 

[Deleted member 14629]

Yeah, I would not worry. The only meaningful improvement is a small/debatable upgrade from DirectStorage that is 99.99% for games which don't really exist to use it yet. The cosmetic changes are a mix of nice and nasty and confusing so if nothing else it is worth waiting as patches fix the things have been left out or are buggy and wrong. I would not rush to buy anything to make it work, especially since hardware is hard to get right now anyway. In a year or two things will be much better hardware availability-wise and Windows 11 will be much more mature and complete. You won't miss out on anything and Windows 10 will still be just fine for a long while still.

Presumably DirectStorage is there to allow SSD streaming tech from the latest console games to be used on Windows 11 PCs too?
Don't you expect console ports in the coming years to leverage DirectStorage?

Yes, but for many that is also the timeframe of "let MS shake out the worst of the bugs and fix the Start menu".

 

[dcook32p]

I'm stuck on a Core i7-4790 without a TPM chip. Once prices come back down to MSRP or less for CPUs and GPUs, I'll build a new gaming box. Until then, I'll keep using Windows 10.

Why did Microsoft choose this particular moment to push Windows 11 when almost no one can buy a new PC for a decent price?

 

[hansmuff]

Yeah, I would not worry. The only meaningful improvement is a small/debatable upgrade from DirectStorage that is 99.99% for games which don't really exist to use it yet.
[...]You won't miss out on anything and Windows 10 will still be just fine for a long while still.

AKSHULLY, you won't miss out on DirectStorage, either. While perhaps not as performant as on Win11, it'll come to Win10.

 

[Deleted member 14629]

I'm stuck on a Core i7-4790 without a TPM chip. Once prices come back down to MSRP or less for CPUs and GPUs, I'll build a new gaming box. Until then, I'll keep using Windows 10.

Why did Microsoft choose this particular moment to push Windows 11 when almost no one can buy a new PC for a decent price?

I forget if your chip itself is supported, but lots of motherboards can enable TPM in firmware. I had to do a BIOS update on my gaming PC, but then I was able to enable Firmware TPM. I haven't updated that computer to Windows 11 yet, but it comes up as compatible now.

On the plus side, Windows 10 still has a long support lifetime, so you're not really out of luck for the foreseeable future staying on 10.

 

[Paladin]

Yeah, I would not worry. The only meaningful improvement is a small/debatable upgrade from DirectStorage that is 99.99% for games which don't really exist to use it yet.
[...]You won't miss out on anything and Windows 10 will still be just fine for a long while still.

AKSHULLY, you won't miss out on DirectStorage, either. While perhaps not as performant as on Win11, it'll come to Win10.

Yup I was posting about that a while ago here in another thread and in theory it will be just about as good since I am assuming most game devs will code to the commonly supported features for a good while. Games that really take advantage of Windows 11 are probably 3-4 years out still.

 

[dcook32p]

I'm stuck on a Core i7-4790 without a TPM chip. Once prices come back down to MSRP or less for CPUs and GPUs, I'll build a new gaming box. Until then, I'll keep using Windows 10.

Why did Microsoft choose this particular moment to push Windows 11 when almost no one can buy a new PC for a decent price?

I forget if your chip itself is supported, but lots of motherboards can enable TPM in firmware. I had to do a BIOS update on my gaming PC, but then I was able to enable Firmware TPM. I haven't updated that computer to Windows 11 yet, but it comes up as compatible now.

On the plus side, Windows 10 still has a long support lifetime, so you're not really out of luck for the foreseeable future staying on 10.

That chip is about four generations out of "official" support, and my motherboard (Gigabyte GA-Z97X-UD3H-BK v1.0) doesn't have firmware-based TPM available. There is a chip that I can add to the board, but it has been sold out everywhere since the announcement that Windows 11 would require it.

I think the official end-of-life is sometime in 2025, so I'm not worried about it. I just think the timing is bad planning on Microsoft's part.

 

[Entegy]

I do think the timing is poor, but NOT doing these security minimums now would mean another decade minimum of not having them at all. I don't think Microsoft had an easy choice here. Windows 10 is supported until October 2025, so another full 4 years, and least it's going to get DirectStorage to keep up with the PS5/Xbox Series X.

 

[hestermofet]

Just a follow up, but I got an upgrade for my Surface Go 2 last week.

 

[Hat Monster]

Ok task bar, why won't you go to the top?

 

[grommit!]

Ok task bar, why won't you go to the top?

Because Microsoft hates you: viewtopic.php?p=40025045#p40025045

 

[Ardax]

Ok task bar, why won't you go to the top?

Go buy a Mac.

I want it back on the left, where it fucking belongs.

 

[hestermofet]

I'm stuck on a Core i7-4790 without a TPM chip. Once prices come back down to MSRP or less for CPUs and GPUs, I'll build a new gaming box. Until then, I'll keep using Windows 10.

Why did Microsoft choose this particular moment to push Windows 11 when almost no one can buy a new PC for a decent price?

One option is do the upgrade on a computer with a TPM, then pull the drive and put it in your regular machine. Seemed to work for me in one case.

On the plus side, Windows 10 still has a long support lifetime, so you're not really out of luck for the foreseeable future staying on 10.

This. Nobody is really doing it in this thread, but if you are thinking about whining about Windows 11, I would reconsider that thought. Most of the big features appear to be backported to Windows 10, and Windows 10 will still get plenty of more updates over the coming years.

 

[Jonathon]

I'm stuck on a Core i7-4790 without a TPM chip. Once prices come back down to MSRP or less for CPUs and GPUs, I'll build a new gaming box. Until then, I'll keep using Windows 10.

Why did Microsoft choose this particular moment to push Windows 11 when almost no one can buy a new PC for a decent price?

One option is do the upgrade on a computer with a TPM, then pull the drive and put it in your regular machine. Seemed to work for me in one case.

IIRC you can still boot from ISO and upgrade without a TPM as well (this may require a registry tweak in the install environment).

 

[Entegy]

I feel very iffy about my install if I have to do a registry hack just to install the OS.

It sucks that my i5-7400 PC is not supported, but I'm gonna stick with official support. That particular install has existed since Vista, and I kinda don't want to break my upgrade train just because I was trigger happy.

I do expect to upgrade that machine before 2025 so I can wait.

 

[Defcon]

Does Windows 11 have any actual improvements w.r.t performance or longstanding windows annoyances, besides the new taskbar/search which are minor UI refreshes that will no doubt get tweaked yet again? I know there's a bunch of new security updates.