Why we had to wait nearly two years for an OLED Steam Deck

"We would have had to delay the original Steam Deck by 12 to 18 months..."

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[malor]

Hah, the pic was a great choice. I don't own a Deck, but it seems like Stardew Valley would be a great reason to.

As far as a 2.0 version goes: this unit has some of the characteristics of consoles, where there's a certain minimum standard that everyone can write to. The big reason to buy a new console is for the new minimum standard performance level. If you really want your money's worth, you don't want the manufacturer upgrading too soon.

IMO, the multiple performance levels for modern consoles are a real drawback, because game devs will generally target the smallest one. That means improvements in the better models won't be transformative, just eye candy.

Give a Deck 2.0 several years to cook, and when it ships, it should allow for major changes in what you can even run in a handheld.

 

[Invid]

I'm onboard for this update. I wanted more battery life and a better screen.

I wouldn't turn up my nose at more power but the only way to get that currently is with one of the AMD 7840 or 7840 derived chips like the Z1 Extreme that really don't perform until they're gulping down 22W or more.

Valve's APU is really well tuned for operation at mobile power levels (~7-11W TDP) and provides excellent performance there. If you want to play PC games and still be mobile, the Steam Deck is where it's at. If you are OK with playing plugged in, there might be better choices.

 

[Rally Man]

Several decades from now, unopened new-in-box LCD Steam Decks will probably be worth quite a bit on the collector's market.

...You didn't open yours, did you?

What will sell for lots of $$$ is the limited edition Deck OLED on the international eBay auctions.

 

[TROPtastic]

The first Steam Deck OLED article by Kevin Purdy still has this incorrect byline:

Available Nov. 16 in "highly limited" quantities, with discounts on LCD models.

The OLED models themselves have plenty of stock according to Valve, it's just the limited edition that is ... limited.

Edit: It's been fixed!

 

[apoclypse]

I wonder if ARM will be viable by the time an SD2 rolls around.

 

[tumblrfan69]

I wonder if ARM will be viable by the time an SD2 rolls around.

Probably not. Apple's x86 => ARM translation is one of the best and it's truly useless for games. The few games that do have native builds (BG3, No Mans Sky) actually run pretty decently.

 

[xaxxon]

It wasn't like the original steam deck wasn't a great product with an LCD. I have no problem with this change. Especially because it isn't a performance improvement which would basically invalidate all the first-gen deck devices because performance settings for new games would be set for the newer performance version.

While this will obviously happen at some point in the future, I'm sure it feels better for current owners that it's not happening this soon.

 

[Waco]

It wasn't like the original steam deck wasn't a great product with an LCD. I have no problem with this change. Especially because it isn't a performance improvement which would basically invalidate all the first-gen deck devices.

It's between 5 and 10% faster, but correct, it's not enough of a bump to really change anything.

 

[TROPtastic]

It's between 5 and 10% faster, but correct, it's not enough of a bump to really change anything.

Is it? The only change that's specified is a slight improvement to the LDDR5 memory speed, and that shouldn't account for a 5-10% bump across the board. The battery life improvement will be much more noticeable.

 

[piotrek54321]

As for the OLED screen itself, I really hope they added some adaptive sync support. That's what the original screen missed the most, I'd say (40 Hz helped, but a-sync would've been miles better).

 

[jhodge]

I wouldn't turn up my nose at more power but the only way to get that currently is with one of the AMD 7840 or 7840 derived chips like the Z1 Extreme that really don't perform until they're gulping down 22W or more.

Not a disagreement, exactly, but 7840u works just fine at 10-12w. It doesn't deliver substantially more performance than the Deck at that wattage, but it doesn't tank either. One advantage 7840u does have is that you can plug in and feed it 30w if/when you need to.

Source: I have a 7840u-based Ayaneo 2s, and am playing Baldur's Gate 3 with TDP set at 12w.

 

[ajmas]

Probably not. Apple's x86 => ARM translation is one of the best and it's truly useless for games. The few games that do have native builds (BG3, No Mans Sky) actually run pretty decently.

I’m curious whether anyone is looking at JIT recompilers for Crossover/Wine? A quick search didn’t turn anything up, but then again I might have been using the wrong terminology?

 

[Waco]

Is it? The only change that's specified is a slight improvement to the LDDR5 memory speed, and that shouldn't account for a 5-10% bump across the board. The battery life improvement will be much more noticeable.

APU performance in gaming is usually pretty closely tied to memory bandwidth, and this is a 9% 16% bump in memory bandwidth. Combined with the APU process refinements, it means more power where it matters and more throughput.

 

[Aelussa]

Is it? The only change that's specified is a slight improvement to the LDDR5 memory speed, and that shouldn't account for a 5-10% bump across the board. The battery life improvement will be much more noticeable.

It's a 16% increase in memory bandwidth, and mobile APUs tend to be bottlenecked by memory bandwidth in games because you have the CPU and GPU both sharing a pretty narrow memory bus. And yes, every review I've seen has shown around a 5 to 10% performance improvement in most games with the OLED Steam Deck.

 

[schnackenpfefferhausen]

That said, Yang was willing to commit to Valve supporting new Steam Deck models beyond the eventual "Steam Deck 2"

Except Valve can't count to 3..

 

[tumblrfan69]

I’m curious whether anyone is looking at JIT recompilers for Crossover/Wine? A quick search didn’t turn anything up, but then again I might have been using the wrong terminology?

Crossover is using Rosetta for it and it's not very good.

You should update your list. Every new game is ARM Native. Very old games have been updated too. I mean, I just don't understand why people keep acting as if no games were coming to the Mac.

Besides, I don't know what you mean by "useless for games" but you should know that benchmarks of Baldur's Gate 3 put the M3 Max on par with a Laptop RTX 4080 + core i9 13900 KH. And you don't have to keep the Mac plugged in to enjoy its power.

PS: No Man's Sky port is probably the worst example. There are tons of better games. Even Metro Exodus, which isn't even native ARM, performs better.

REV is definitely a better reference than NMS

I'm acting like there's no games coming to the Mac becuase the games that I play seldom get a Mac release and the ones that I do have on Steam already are either incompatible (32 bit) or are unplayably slow under emulation.

BG3 was an example as it's the latest game that I've played that has a Mac version (which is also ARM native). Mind you, I played it mostly on Steam Deck and only dabbled a bit on my Mac just to try it.

 

[LuNatic_]

Obligatory whining about the Steam Deck not having received an official Australian release

 

[Granadico]

I wonder why they couldn't get VRR in considering you can change the frame rate seemingly arbitrarily. That's about the only thing missing I can think of for features.

 

[Invid]

Not a disagreement, exactly, but 7840u works just fine at 10-12w. It doesn't deliver substantially more performance than the Deck at that wattage, but it doesn't tank either. One advantage 7840u does have is that you can plug in and feed it 30w if/when you need to.

Source: I have a 7840u-based Ayaneo 2s, and am playing Baldur's Gate 3 with TDP set at 12w.

Sorry, I wasn't saying the 7840u chips were trash, just that they are outpaced below about 13W by the Aerith APU. They only come into their own when pushed past the power limits of the Steam Deck.

If you're playing plugged in, they outperform a Steam Deck, no question. If you want to play away from an outlet a Steam Deck is almost always the better choice (where better = more endurance).

 

[aleph_nought]

Probably not. Apple's x86 => ARM translation is one of the best and it's truly useless for games. The few games that do have native builds (BG3, No Mans Sky) actually run pretty decently.

This is going to sound weird but Microsoft's x64 -> ARM64 translation is pretty good. I've managed to run Steam games including older AAA titles on Windows on ARM laptops running the 8cx and 8cx Gen 3. Qualcomm's Hexagon GPUs are formidable but it's the lack of active cooling that causes throttling when gaming on these machines.

So yeah, it would be interesting to see newer games having ARM64 Windows builds and a future Steam Deck running a top-of-the-line ARM chip.

 

[Frodo Douchebaggins]

Obligatory whining about the Steam Deck not having received an official Australian release

The country has an addressable market of fewer people than NYC and has a government that is hostile towards video games. Can't really fault them for considering Australia a low priority.

 

[panton41]

Probably not. Apple's x86 => ARM translation is one of the best and it's truly useless for games. The few games that do have native builds (BG3, No Mans Sky) actually run pretty decently.

I run games using Rosetta 2 on a regular basis (as in at this very moment on another window of the computer I'm on) and haven't really had performance issues. The games that have made an Apple Silicon version run better, but it's not like they were running all that bad before. Then again, I mostly play stuff like Paradox games or The Sims 4 on my Macs.

Remember children "Gaming" is more than just twitch first-person shooters.

 

[malor]

Remember children "Gaming" is more than just twitch first-person shooters.

Good thing, because I'm crap at those games after getting old.

 

[tumblrfan69]

I wonder why they couldn't get VRR in considering you can change the frame rate seemingly arbitrarily. That's about the only thing missing I can think of for features.

the display connector they're using doesn't support it and to get it they'd need to commission their own displays (rather than using existing parts) which would blow the cost profile out of the water.

 

[Haravikk]

I run games using Rosetta 2 on a regular basis (as in at this very moment on another window of the computer I'm on) and haven't really had performance issues. The games that have made an Apple Silicon version run better, but it's not like they were running all that bad before. Then again, I mostly play stuff like Paradox games or The Sims 4on my Macs.

Remember children "Gaming" is more than just twitch first-person shooters.

It'll depend how CPU bound the game's performance is I think, and what exactly they're doing; IIRC Rosetta isn't simply translation, it's more like a just-in-time re-compilation, so in theory it's capable of near native performance, though in practice you usually won't quite get there because x86_64 has a bunch of instructions that don't have exact replacements on M1/2/3 so if they're used heavily those will probably slow a program down, plus the re-compilation likely has to make some compromises to avoid long delays the first time you run a program through Rosetta 2.

But these days games using modern graphics APIs (DirectX 12, Vulkan, Metal) are all about offloading as much as possible to run on the GPU itself; the API calls being a little slower on the CPU side isn't likely to make much of a difference since the bulk of the work is done in GPU native code via shaders or similar. So (again, in theory) the graphical performance should be pretty similar to native code.

I think it's definitely something Valve could pull off if they really wanted to, but it might be a little early for that IMO.

 

[ikjadoon]

to get it they'd need to commission their own displays (rather than using existing parts) which would blow the cost profile out of the water.

I missed the link where Valve spoke about VRR in the commodity OLED panel market.

Could you share a source of Valve’s interview on VRR?

We know OLED was tough, but I completely missed the VRR bits.

 

[Boskone]

I have the OG 512GB, and while the battery life is fine (at least for the games I play on it), I wouldn't mind something that lasts longer.

Seems like a fair mid-generation refresh (so to speak); a few minor improvements, but nothing that invalidates the existing models. And I like the apparent commitment to multigeneration support; I don't expect AAA games to work as well, but even just being able to still get parts and repair will be nice.

 

[TROPtastic]

APU performance in gaming is usually pretty closely tied to memory bandwidth, and this is a 9% 16% bump in memory bandwidth. Combined with the APU process refinements, it means more power where it matters and more throughput.

It's a 16% increase in memory bandwidth, and mobile APUs tend to be bottlenecked by memory bandwidth in games because you have the CPU and GPU both sharing a pretty narrow memory bus. And yes, every review I've seen has shown around a 5 to 10% performance improvement in most games with the OLED Steam Deck.

Hmm, I see. I'm surprised that Valve doesn't highlight improved performance for the Deck OLED given these numbers.

 

[EspHack]

I'm not sure the console logic about locking down a minimum spec for devs to target long term really applies here, this thing is just supposed to run pc games, what dev is going to constrain their game to yet another pre-built pc? they could update this thing every time AMD brings another half frame per second to the table, your old deck will be left in the dust regardless

 

[dobrien75]

Obligatory whining about the Steam Deck not having received an official Australian release

This is my whining face

 

[betam4x]

Hah, the pic was a great choice. I don't own a Deck, but it seems like Stardew Valley would be a great reason to.

As far as a 2.0 version goes: this unit has some of the characteristics of consoles, where there's a certain minimum standard that everyone can write to. The big reason to buy a new console is for the new minimum standard performance level. If you really want your money's worth, you don't want the manufacturer upgrading too soon.

IMO, the multiple performance levels for modern consoles are a real drawback, because game devs will generally target the smallest one. That means improvements in the better models won't be transformative, just eye candy.

Give a Deck 2.0 several years to cook, and when it ships, it should allow for major changes in what you can even run in a handheld.

Those 2D games are rather amazing on the Deck! I grabbed one to play my games on the go, but ended up using it more for 2D roguelikes and RPGs (emulation!) instead.

 

[LochedNLoaded]

Is it? The only change that's specified is a slight improvement to the LDDR5 memory speed, and that shouldn't account for a 5-10% bump across the board. The battery life improvement will be much more noticeable.

I'm not super familiar with the version of Zen in the Steam Deck APU, but is it possible that the process shrink allows it to run cooler, and therefore allows for longer periods of bursting/turboing?

 

[xaxxon]

edit: never mind

 

[xaxxon]

edit: never mind.

 

[malor]

Those 2D games are rather amazing on the Deck! I grabbed one to play my games on the go, but ended up using it more for 2D roguelikes and RPGs (emulation!) instead.

Yeah, it sounds great. If I were stuck away from my desktop more, I'd definitely buy one.

 

[apoclypse]

This is going to sound weird but Microsoft's x64 -> ARM64 translation is pretty good. I've managed to run Steam games including older AAA titles on Windows on ARM laptops running the 8cx and 8cx Gen 3. Qualcomm's Hexagon GPUs are formidable but it's the lack of active cooling that causes throttling when gaming on these machines.

So yeah, it would be interesting to see newer games having ARM64 Windows builds and a future Steam Deck running a top-of-the-line ARM chip.

I was about to point this out as well. Apple has shown with their Game Toolkit thingy that it's possible to translate DX12 x86 to an ARM based architecture. If Valve threw some resources into Proton to do the same I'd imagine it would be possible as well on Steam Deck. We also have a lot of rumors that the next consoles may be going with ARM which could accelerate the uptake of ARM based ports.

 

[apoclypse]

Except Valve can't count to 3..

I know you were being facetious but Steam OS is on version 3.