When Europe needed it most, the Ariane 6 rocket finally delivered

"For this sovereignty, we must yield to the temptation of preferring SpaceX."

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[Frodo Douchebaggins]

SpaceX: Where the cash cost is lowest, but the social cost is immeasurable.

”Anyone but SpaceX” is my way of thinking for space launches. And yes, that includes launching with China or Russia or the Saudis if they want to Lucid their way into the industry. I would rather see the end of the US space launch industry than what are on the path to, and SpaceX and all of their employees are complicit.

 

[TheColinous]

Two flights into its career, Ariane 6 seems to offer a technical solution for Europe's needs. But at what cost? Arianespace hasn't publicly disclosed the cost for an Ariane 6 launch, although it's likely somewhere in the range of 80 to 100 million euros, about 40 percent lower than the cost of an Ariane 5. This is about 50 percent more than SpaceX's list price for a dedicated Falcon 9 launch.

I'd pay 100% more if it meant that not one cent of Europe's money ends up in Musk's wallet.

 

[gregorerlich]

SpaceX: Where the cash cost is lowest, but the social cost is immeasurable.

”Anyone but SpaceX” is my way of thinking for space launches. And yes, that includes launching with China or Russia or the Saudis if they want to Lucid their way into the industry. I would rather see the end of the US space launch industry than what are on the path to, and SpaceX and all of their employees are complicit.

I'm not sure I really follow the logic of doing business with one batch of authoritarians over another. I don't see much to choose between Musk's fascism, China's authoritarian "communism", or Saudi absolute monarchy. All are bywords for the absolute degradation of everything good and worthwhile in the human spirit.

Europe is right to prefer an indigenous vehicle, regardless of cost. I hope my country (Canada) can get into the launcher/spaceport game, too, but until then, Ariane looks like a good option for our payloads.

 

[WhyNotZoidberg]

Arianespace hasn't publicly disclosed the cost for an Ariane 6 launch, although it's likely somewhere in the range of 80 to 100 million euros, about 40 percent lower than the cost of an Ariane 5. This is about 50 percent more than SpaceX's list price for a dedicated Falcon 9 launch.

As a US taxpayer this is acceptable. Fuck Musk. May he end up penniless wandering the street talking to himself soaked in his own urine.

 

[pug fugly]

Even Americans should be using Ariane over Space卐

 

[WhyNotZoidberg]

SpaceX: Where the cash cost is lowest, but the social cost is immeasurable.

”Anyone but SpaceX” is my way of thinking for space launches. And yes, that includes launching with China or Russia or the Saudis if they want to Lucid their way into the industry. I would rather see the end of the US space launch industry than what are on the path to, and SpaceX and all of their employees are complicit.

Eh…. I fully support working with Europe. China… fine if you have to. Fuck Russia and the Saudis though.

 

[pug fugly]

. . . . Fuck Musk. May he end up penniless wandering the street talking to himself soaked in his own urine.

Careful, chances are he's into that

 

[JoelS]

Worth every penny.

 

[WalkingCube]

European taxpayers being fleeced to give more money to French companies ArianeGroup and Safran.

... or alternatively, Europeans will be fleeced into surrendering more sovereignty to a turncoat ally. Hopefully, they too will have their own SpaceX moment when the old guard gets replaced by far more nimble players.

In general, most advanced non-US Western states have indulged too much in the peace dividend, so I hope that the steep cost of having to reacquire their own independent strategic capabilities will serve as a warning to future complacency.

 

[sbouniol]

The cost difference between Falcon 9 and Ariane 6 can easily be solved by imposing Tariff. ;-)

 

[Papewaio]

Europe needs to pivot hard and invest in multiple competitive launch companies. EU and UK already have a strong payload industry, what is holding them back is the lack of competitive launch capabilities.

Not just SLS-like rockets, they do need to actually compete with SpaceX and RocketLab to some degree. Even if they are prepared to pay a premium, it would be better to have more rockets to get their own independent satellite constellations in orbit.

Right now the US is turning off Ukraines military intelligence and apparently sabotaging some of the capabilities of some of the weapons systems by turning off the targeting information.

Europe cannot rely on the US as an ally, a partner or even a neutral weapon seller now the US is actively colluding with Russia to soften Ukraines air defences by denying information. The kind of information that includes space borne gathering and distribution in a timely manner.

So its great that Europe has gotten the Ariane 6 to orbit, they need to launch many many more to make sure they also don't get stabbed in the back by an ally who expects support only to be one way.

 

[Frodo Douchebaggins]

I'm not sure I really follow the logic of doing business with one batch of authoritarians over another. I don't see much to choose between Musk's fascism, China's authoritarian "communism", or Saudi absolute monarchy. All are bywords for the absolute degradation of everything good and worthwhile in the human spirit.

Europe is right to prefer an indigenous vehicle, regardless of cost. I hope my country (Canada) can get into the launcher/spaceport game, too, but until then, Ariane looks like a good option for our payloads.

In my way of thinking, those are established authoritarian states, and if we can prevent ours from sliding fully into that situation, we should do so.

It’s sort of like carbon credits, but more awful.

 

[Fatesrider]

SpaceX: Where the cash cost is lowest, but the social cost is immeasurable.

”Anyone but SpaceX” is my way of thinking for space launches. And yes, that includes launching with China or Russia or the Saudis if they want to Lucid their way into the industry. I would rather see the end of the US space launch industry than what are on the path to, and SpaceX and all of their employees are complicit.

It's about this:

Philippe Baptiste, France's minister for research and higher education, says Ariane 6 is "proof of our space sovereignty," as many European officials feel they can no longer rely on the United States.

As much as it pains me to say this, they're absolutely right.

My country has been taken over by thugs, fascists and conmen.

To our allies, if you value your freedom, do not do business with the US. Contain the cancer as much as you can. And let us excise the tumor we've acquired through foolishness and stupidity.

 

[Hoptimist]

These articles seem to always focus on ESA's cost to launch as a figure of merit, without ever commenting on Russia, PRC, Japan, India etc. cost per launch. Most of these programs have strategic priorities besides low cost, it should not be surprising that Europe has strategic priorities as well. As a US citizen, I'd like to see lots of viable options for space launch - you won't get that if you quit development and become dependent.

 

[mcswell]

If this is a spy satellite, I hope they put it to use supporting Ukraine.

 

[Wallachia]

May he end up penniless wandering the street talking to himself soaked in his own urine.

I mean we're like 2 for 3 on that one already

 

[cyberfunk]

Worth every penny.

Except when those pennies now compete with defending themselves and Ukraine without my country's support, sadly.

Europe needs to wake up and choose where to spend the money, and there won't be enough for everything.. it's clearly no longer under the US defense umbrella it was.

The only good thing about this situation is that the EU is finally getting the swift kick in the ass it always needed on defense and space issues that they kept punting on for decades. Well, now they've got years or less to get it together, and it's quite frightening.

 

[motytrah]

These articles seem to always focus on ESA's cost to launch as a figure of merit, without ever commenting on Russia, PRC, Japan, India etc. cost per launch. Most of these programs have strategic priorities besides low cost, it should not be surprising that Europe has strategic priorities as well. As a US citizen, I'd like to see lots of viable options for space launch - you won't get that if you quit development and become dependent.

I like that idea. In particular for a long form article that digs into the comparisons of the current state of the industry.

 

[RTRebuilder]

For this sovereignty, we must yield to the temptation of preferring SpaceX or...

If they want sovereignty, he should have said "we must not yield" - or am I missing something?

 

[clackerd]

As much as it pains me to say this, they're absolutely right.

My country has been taken over by thugs, fascists and conmen.

I think our country has been taken over by a political party that has been hostile to education since the early 80s, and has been consistently using its power to weaken teachers unions and demonize college education until we now have enough easily-swayed, overly-proud, ignorant bumpkins pulling voting levers. Gotta respect the evil long game

 

[stux]

So, its like Airbus to Boeing… except in space… so Spacebus?

 

[alisonken1]

If they want sovereignty, he should have said "we must not yield" - or am I missing something?

I agree - "... not yield to the temptation ..." is what the sentence actually parsed into the way I read it.

 

[balthazarr]

"The future of Europe does not have to be decided in Washington or Moscow."

I'm prepared to allow the slight flub here on account of English as a second language, but surely he meant must not - the future of Europe must not be decided in Washington or Moscow.

And, the way things are going, he should've said Washington and Moscow. I know a lot of insanity was to be expected in Trump 2.0, but who would've thought the USA would be siding with Russia against an ally? Sheer and utter fucking mind blowing insanity.

EDIT: Rather than "allow", I meant "forgive" - forgive the slight flub.

 

[passivesmoking]

That's a relief. We're probably not going to find American commercial launch companies to be awfully dependable in the immediate future so it's good that there's still an alternative that's outside of their control.

 

[Carewolf]

So, its like Airbus to Boeing… except in space… so Spacebus?

I support the magic SpaceBus

 

[passivesmoking]

European taxpayers being fleeced to give more money to French companies ArianeGroup and Safran.

Not as hard as American taxpayers are being fleeced to buy Musk a room with a view on Mars. How's your social security doing?

 

[balthazarr]

Not as hard as American taxpayers are being fleeced to buy Musk a room with a view on Mars. How's your social security doing?

Heh. SpaceTen is so cheap largely thanks to the US taxpayer... but shhhhhh, they don't want to hear such woke talk.

 

[DaveSimmons]

European taxpayers being fleeced to give more money to French companies ArianeGroup and Safran.

While Musk dismantles government oversight of his companies, grifts more government handouts to SpaceX and Tesla, oh and cuts off Starlink access to Ukraine while allowing Russia to keep using the service it's "acquired."

"For this sovereignty, we must yield to the temptation of preferring SpaceX."

Truth. Relying on SwastiSpace is no longer safe if Musk decides to cut off service for being too "Woke" or non-fascist or hurting his feelings.

 

[SubWoofer2]

In a world of Great Powers and it's the size of your big stick that counts, the cost per launch becomes a secondary consideration. The question is, if you can't trust your friends, what do you do?

This was the miscalculation at the break-up of the Soviet Union, when Ukraine handed over their nukes in exchange for security guarantees from Russia that Russia wouldn't be an aggressor.

Of course, the picture became fouled when Ukraine was steadily pulled towards Europe. Further fouled when Russia invaded Crimea, and even more fouled when Ukraine's military response was supported by private militias traceable to fascist (nazi) funders and leaders. Then Russia's big invasion began, a complete clusterfoulup. Putin's only mistake was underestimating Zelenskyy with the hatred of the Ukrainians for the Russian bear. Based only on experience that you can't trust them a millimetre, because they'll take it from you. Such as the creeping borders encroachment of Georgia.

The Soviet Union fell after the Star Wars and Afghanistan imbroglios. Russia now is very close to falling, with the right nudges, it's only a matter of time and not buying their oil, gas, etc. It looks like those nudges won't be coming from the USA.

Instead, Europe now is obliged to wargame a NATO war against the USA for Greenland, for fucks sake. It's like starting World War 1 because of Sarajevo, a place few knew of or cared about.

The smarts here is that Europe can't fight a war on two fronts - Ukraine and Greenland.

2030 AD. Russia is in Kiev. Trump's empire is in Nuuk. Canada is surrounded by it's friend on all sides.

America will be Great Again, because Greenland's really big, and the MAGAs can point to it on the map and say we are bigger and better.

 

[ItchyPoo]

As a US taxpayer this is acceptable. Fuck Musk. May he end up penniless wandering the street talking to himself soaked in his own urine.

Agree other than I would prefer “… soaked in other people’s urine”

 

[putzhobel]

SpaceX: Where the cash cost is lowest, but the social cost is immeasurable.

I am still stunned by how quickly the souvereignty argument has turned from an abstract point (and suspected excuse for an outdated concept) into a harsh reality.

Better Ariane 6 than not.

 

[GFKBill]

Ariane 6 will continue to be exorbitantly costly even now. SpaceX may be attached to a ruthless cryptoBro cum authoritarian supporter.. but damn can they execute. People in charge of budgets will mostly vote for the cost aspect, for better or worse.

Not sure I'd call 40-50% more exhorbitant...

"European officials have freely admitted the commercial market is secondary on their list of Ariane 6 goals"

And that part is priceless to them.

 

[Wallachia]

Trump's empire is in Nuuk

wait wait wait

has he just been trying to make fucking hyperborea happen this whole time?

 

[alisonken1]

I support the magic SpaceBus

I support the Magic School Bus

The Magic School Bus Gets Lost In Space (youtube)

 

[TheVisitor]

"The future of Europe does not have to be decided in Washington or Moscow."

I'm prepared to allow the slight flub here on account of English as a second language, but surely he meant must not - the future of Europe must not be decided in Washington or Moscow.

And, the way things are going, he should've said Washington and Moscow. I know a lot of insanity was to be expected in Trump 2.0, but who would've thought the USA would be siding with Russia against an ally? Sheer and utter fucking mind blowing insanity.

It's a mistranslation - the original statement in French is "L’avenir de l’Europe n’a pas à être tranché à Washington ou à Moscou", which would be better translated as "The future of Europe is not to be decided in Washington or Moscow". Even though it's in the passive voice, its meaning is very much "must not be".