What I do to clean up a “clean install” of Windows 11 23H2 and Edge

Tips and tricks for making Microsoft leave you alone while you use your PC.

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[Cat Killer]

When it come to games, the work done for the SteamDeck will eventually make into mainstream Wine, but I believe it will be with 6-month to a year delay?

No, there's no fixed-length commercial-interest delay.

Some things are going to be in Wine's development releases before they're in a stable version of Proton because Valve are working with upstream; some things that are included with Proton will never be accepted into Wine (such as DXVK); some things (like the WaitMultiple synchronisation work) have been ongoing for several years upstream, but Valve can choose to maintain their own branch for their own kernel for their own distro as long as they like.

 

[SportivoA]

What always baffles me, while fighting with entirely avoidable hassles, is how the engineers and designers who created those hassles can live with their own products, away from work. Do they not also encounter the same soul-grinding annoyances and time-consuming corrections required to actually use what they have built?

We now have terms, originating in the tech industry but spread elsewhere, that describe product usability and design: "Eat your own dog food" (a stupid way to express the idea, but here we are), and, lately, "enshitification". The former describes a measure of self-awareness by the designer or programmer; the latter suggests a complete lack of same, or worse, a malicious intent to annoy the user for the sake of profits (such as non-stop intrusive marketing).

In part, presumably, because Windows is such a sprawling mass, particularly with third-party and alternative first-party components that those engineers and designers have no leverage to make the experience better. Between management justifying their team's labor and executives "executing on product strategy" or some such, the relatively little people are being consumed in the productivity shift just as much as we are. Of course, as mentioned in this thread, the engineers presumably have access to their own collection of recommended scripts and get advance notice of changes that overwrite or obsolete those feature management settings.

There may be plenty of self-awareness, but the reality will still be that the flavor of the food is already off. It has to be, given our experiences as customers. But there's only so much to take a stand against, internally. The Edge team can't stop Solitaire ads and the driver team can't stop OneDrive/Office nags. Heck, for on-the-job use, a bunch of this might be mitigated just by running logged-in, on-domain with Microsoft's configuration except for people testing consumer "fresh" flows.

Take the dev script home or don't use Windows much at home and some employees might just not notice the slide as much. The rest of us, either you live with it or you figure fighting it (including avoiding updates, as bad of a pattern as that is).

 

[greywun]

I've always found the program "o&oshutup" to be a powerful way of easily turning on and off all the features that may annoy in once place. I've used it for years and never had any issues (although obviously if you turn off something you didn't understand, you may have issues).

They appear to be a reputable company (but salt that opnion to taste).

I also use O&O Shutup10 on every Win11 install. It allows you to easily disable the 'telemetry' that Windows 11 attempts to force you into.

 

[Greg_Littlefield]

I hate to say it but I think there's a real business opportunity for MS here, by selling a stripped down version of Windows.

I would totally be ready to pay more if it means not dealling with the required MS account, bloatware, and stuff I know I will never use.... This is very sad.

 

[macosandlinux]

I used to do clean installs as well. About 3 years ago I bought a Mac and spent about a year getting used to it. I then had to buy a windows 11 laptop to run 1 program for my business. Holy shyte! It was so painful going back to windows. It’s really awful.

It was so awful I setup RDP and just remote in from my Mac whenever I have to use that one program.

I found Win11 stability highly robust for me over the last year (no BSOD or reboots/freeezes; and I have it basically running 24/7 on a laptop without sleep).

I also run Pop!_OS and love the freedom of OSS, no ads/notices whatsoever, but I see the lack of UI polish and inconsistencies. Plus there's Flatpak and a couple other ways apps work or don't - it's more work to get it all in state to be happy and keep it so.

Mac OS quality has highly degraded over the last half decade, but it still has a more consistent UI (not considering the system prefs), and it has less nagging, but there is more and more Apple service 'reminders' all over the place, don't fool yourself.

Bottom of the story, all OS approaches are not perfect, find what works for you and maybe you need to turn a few more things 'off' in Win11, but it's still way better than many make it out to be.

 

[Belphegor]

I would be super-fascinated to see minutes of any internal Microsoft meetings where they analyse the cost/benefit of constantly nagging their customers and filling Windows with bloat. Aside from the annoyance of it all, to me it really makes them appear desperate, one of the biggest turn-offs in any relationship. They really do have some excellent products; why are they so insecure about letting them speak for themselves?

Nagging users is how Chrome became the dominant browser so Microsoft must be thinking that the same trick will work for them, too. Obviously it doesn't work any longer because the adoption rate of Edge is abysmal despite it being the de facto solution in the corporate world.

Nagging doesn't work when the poor user is used as a tennis ball in a match between Google and Microsoft who will try to punish the user for selecting the wrong browser when logging in to their respective services despite being essentially the same browser.

I would also question the way Microsoft does prioritisation of feature requests in the development of its OSes. Most features of Windows 10 that appeared as quality of life improvements after the initial launch were dropped in Windows 11. This means they were aware of the poor reception of those features thanks to telemetry and chose to drop the ball to develop more useless cruft like Copilot.

 

[Dumdums]

Maddening how MS installs their bloatware when new users sign in.
They should be required by law to offer a garbage free install.

 

[andy o]

I've bought Windows Pro a few times, with my laptops and standalone, but I still clean-install Enterprise because of all the bullshit, even with Pro which MS keeps adding crapware/ads removing options (some Group Policies were deprecated for Pro that still work on Enterprise). IDGAF that I have to basically pirate it (though it's a clean download from MS), if corpos are gonna treat their users with contempt then there's really no guilt whatsoever on my part.

 

[SportivoA]

It is absolutely incredible that in 2024 the best Microsoft can manage is to force kill Office and the launch the old Win 95 era document recovery after crash tool on the next launch. But why not, it usually works!

And you'd think that with the frequency of updates Microsoft would have considered 11 as the opportunity to get the MacOS "saved application state" sort of API built, but no. Either an app implements its own random-restart protection, engaged in half measures like Office (first-party!) does, or rolls over and loses whatever you had open.

 

[powerof3]

The fact that this article needed to be written is sad. Microsoft is getting so much love for being an "innovator" in AI when all they've done is invest money in someone else who innovated and grabbed all the code in exchange for their investment. Since when is that "innovation?"

They are also getting all kinds of love for the incredible profits and growth, but how much of this growth is just slamming their own products into existing agreements with customers (consumer on windows, business on office). It's like they are being celebrated for going back to the 90s playbook.

 

[Hydrogen]

I remember first trying edge on my old windows 8 tablet. I thought it was pretty good, very fast and super clean UI (also address bar at the bottom, which is something I still cant do on iPad).

But now when I open it (some sites do not like Firefox) it looks like I opened a super cursed Internet Explorer with multiple spyware toolbars and pop ups.

 

[JBinFla]

1) Install Linux

The end.

I saw the hate, but to be honest this should be a wakeup call. Yes I use Windows only apps at work (AutoCAD to name one) but at home I have been for a while now slowly migrating to Linux environments.

Anyway, I can see the direction this is heading and eventually Linux will be the go-to. Not sure when, and the software that matters to my income is mostly Windows only so I will not give it up. But. OpenSUSE anyway has been good to me at home. It works, and it works well. I wouldn't put it on my moms computer, but then again I'm not so sure she'd care. As long as her email and browser work she's good.

 

[bignick243]

A lot of us have tried telling Microsoft to stop being stupid.

Their response, paraphrased:
<crickets>

Or, elaborated with some insider gossip:
"You're locked into Active Directory for your corporate environment because what the hell else are you going to use that works anywhere near as well. You're locked into Windows because your ERP, CAD, office suite, and custom in-house tools are all built for Windows. Do your CTO, CIO, etc. really hate Windows enough to spend eight million dollars retooling everything in your company to work properly without it, and will they risk their careers on that bet? Fuck no. You're ours forever, bitch."

As a shareholder, I have a hard time hating a company whose share price is up 380% in five years.

As a home user, I bloody well detest everything about the Windows setup and maintenance experience, hence why my home server runs a FreeBSD variant and half the remaining computers in the house run Linux Mint.

But I have precisely zero influence on any decisions Microsoft makes.

Precisely. Hock Tan and Broadcom are doing pretty much the same damn thing with vmware.

 

[Wulven]

I'm not sure I'd consider sticking with the platform with the by far highest TCO (Windows) as being "easier". In fact, I've worked with a number of medium and large businesses who ditched Windows for Chromebooks or Macs, and in the first year they all reported an over 50% reduction in support calls. Both platforms are also much easier to deploy (especially Chromebooks), while every new iteration of Windows requires extensive work to create a default image without all the consumer crap and annoyances that have no place in an enterprise setting.

Most business apps are already either web based or in the cloud (so also web based), and most of those that still aren't are on their way there.

I get the exact opposite in my post secondary education job. I get way more support calls for Mac related issues than Windows. Mostly with stuff like our network printers stop working when Apple updates the OS and people get to wait for a fix. New mac's having "known issues" that haven't been fixed you have to work around ( Plugging in HDMI to a macbook and not getting audio is a popular one in our Labs and Classrooms ) I think the most fun is we have 2 Computer labs loaded with the full Adobe suites and classes request to move to the PC one because everything just works whereas the Mac lab I am there 3 times a week.
We tried the Chromeboook thing and most people who we were testing with gave up and brought them back. They are great in a pinch but trying to cover everyone's potential usage in our environment it just didn't work well.
Every environment is different though, I can see if a corporation had everything web based sure it could be easy I guess.

 

[silverboy]

God bless you, Andrew Cunningham. Surely many of us even here on Ars have to use Windows, if only because our need to make money by working for The Man is the equivalent of someone pointing a gun at our head five mornings a week.

Meanwhile, how about Ars do the same for every other computer / phone / tablet / phablet / IoT operating system — even perhaps including Linux. Yes, Linux is 99.95% better, but my cloud install tries to sell me on "Strictly Confined Kubernetes" every time I login. It's a cloud vendor setting, but if Ars can fight Microsoft to a draw like this, surely they can best the lame-asses at Vultr or DigitalOcean, too.

Please please please, Ars. I'm begging you and also paying you $72 a year! Think deeply upon it — and then do it.

While you're doing that, I'm going to have to bookmark this article using My Own Secret System.

Edits: Just saying more. Because more is more, dammit!

 

[Wulven]

As another note, Tiny11 is a great alternative if you want a complete base install of Windows 11. I use it to make our Lab images, it makes a huge difference especially since the labs are running on older hardware

 

[Geebs]

The other thing is that even if Wine or CrossOver (commercial offering of Wine) are options, there is still plenty of software that either doesn’t run with them or run sub-optimally. When it come to games, the work done for the SteamDeck will eventually make into mainstream Wine, but I believe it will be with 6-month to a year delay?

In a corporate environment, which operates with a Microsoft site license, then it may be easier, in terms of support just to make employees all use Windows. In that environment I still feel that Linux is not quite ready to be a suitable drop-in replacement for Windows (at least for non-technical users) . A Mac may be slightly better, but the need for specific hardware and extra expertise may also make it easier to stick to Windows for many businesses?

BTW if you go Mac and decide to install Microsoft Office (the non-365 edition), then be ready to deal with the issues of the Office Updater, such as high CPU usage when it tries to do a background update or daily update notifications, if you disable auto-update. If you don't use Office daily, then it’s a pain to deal with.

However, if you do enable auto-update: expect your Office apps to demand to be restarted in order to install updates several times a week and then, and this is the kicker, fail to reopen the document you were working on before the enforced update.

 

[deet]

If all you want to do is dump the bloatware that comes with a PC, “Reset Windows” will reinstall a factory vanilla Windows for you, plus necessary drivers, and you can go from there with many of the fine recommendations here.

We do this via Intune for new PCs. The vendors just cannot help themselves, even when the order is for no bloatware.

 

[Fred Duck]

I knew it wouldn’t get universal laughs, but didn’t expect anyone to think I was literally suggesting that.

There's only one joke which gets universal laughs.*

Spoiler

A man walks into a bar.

Spoiler

He is an alcoholic and it is destroying his family.

* Except in Germany, where you must use a different joke which is not included here for safety reasons.

 

[ERIFNOMI]

If all you want to do is dump the bloatware that comes with a PC, “Reset Windows” will reinstall a factory vanilla Windows for you, plus necessary drivers, and you can go from there with many of the fine recommendations here.

We do this via Intune for new PCs. The vendors just cannot help themselves, even when the order is for no bloatware.

This is bloatware that comes with vanilla Windows. All of my Windows installs are clean installs from the installer provided directly by MS. In fact, all of my Windows installs are on hardware that I built, so there isn't even anyone else to foist bloatware on me. You still get a ton of bullshit pre-installed, even on Pro versions of the OS.

 

[PatientZero]

My biggest gripe with Win 11 (and they've even changed this in Win 10):

There is no way to turn off the "trending topics" bullshit when using Windows search.

You can turn off nearly everything, but one can still search for an app on their machine, and be presented with such trending topics as "sexual assault" or "gaza."

Does nobody at Microsoft think that maybe, just maybe, somebody wants to use their computer to escape the world for while?

 

[jdawgnoonan]

A fresh install of Windows is insulting in my opinion. It is basically full of ads, whether that is the crap in the Start menu or the junk shortcuts in the browser. Windows out of the box is quite frankly low class. I would rather pay more and lose this crap, but in the Windows world premium systems cannot even avoid this crap.

This is why my primary machines run Mac OS and Fedora. It is very rare that I actually need anything that requires Windows.

 

[Wulven]

For Windows 10:
gpedit
Local computer policy > Computer configuration > Administrative templates > Windows components > Windows update:
"Configure automatic updates" -> Enabled. Set to "2 Notify for download and auto install".
"No auto re-start with logged on users for scheduled automatic updates installations" -> Enabled.

For Windows 11 there is an extra folder it is Computer Configuration > Administrative Templates > Windows Components > Windows Update > Manage end user experience then the Configure Automatic Updates.

If you select Disable, you can still manually click the Check For Updates in Windows updates and do the Updates that way so it makes it a completely manual system with no alerts etc.

 

[TwoKiloBalls]

As someone else has pointed out, to avoid Windows nuisance is not to install one.
Mac and Linux are all good alternatives.

MacOS is full of its own bloatware, don't fool yourself.

 

[Scary Devil Monastery]

Is 2024 the year? Finally?

https://www.theregister.com/2022/10/14/year_of_linux_desktop/

Dog Damn!

If true I envision a sudden glut of PC titles suddenly ported to Linux or at least supplied with viable Wine settings. Although "if true" will have to rely on MS being even more evil and tonedeaf than even I like to give them credit for.

 

[jdawgnoonan]

MacOS is full of its own bloatware, don't fool yourself.

Please explain what? I will try to find it on the Mac I am using right now? I see no Candy Crush shortcuts. No forced links to Amazon, Walmart, or LinkdIn. So where is the crap? Hell, in Windows they even have an ad in Windows Update as I have to be reminded about their carbon footprint. On my Mac they do not mention the carbon footprint, but they try to optimize the charging to reduce the footprint without having to tell me about it.

 

[spVolt]

I would think that Microsoft have a small team (or contractors more likely) that search the web daily for articles similar to this one, read them, and write up dis-enhancement requests to make each of the described techniques for eliminating annoyances stop working after the next "security update".

 

[Scary Devil Monastery]

It's a lot easier to navigate a maze if you're the one who built it.

I'll eat my own shorts if the developers of this monstrosity aren't already passing around a .bat file which shuts down all the annoyance of win11. Hell, they probably wrote a few of the ones already floating around on Github.

 

[Marcus Andreus]

My current Windows bugbear relates to OneDrive. I pay for OneDrive. I use OneDrive. I use OneDrive to backup some directories. I don't use OneDrive to backup any of the default directories (/Documents, /Pictures, etc). Every few days, I get an orange ball warning on my username in the Start menu asking me to backup things. It has two options: 'Get started' (by selecting some of the default directories), or 'Remind me later.'

I can't make it go away permanently.

Microsoft, pls fix.

 

[murty]

After running into some recent explorer crashing issues and some of the diagnosing pointing towards widgets, I discovered that you can completely uninstall the widget service if that’s not something you use in Win11 (such as myself). Toggling it off in the settings menu only hides it but it doesn’t actually disable it and the service will keep running in the background.

Here’s some good instructions on how to remove, it’s just a simple Remove-AppXPackage command from PowerShell.

https://lazyadmin.nl/win-11/disable-widgets-windows-11/
tl;dr:

# Remove the installed package for each user
Get-AppxPackage -AllUsers | Where-Object {$_.Name -like "WebExperience"} | Remove-AppxPackage -AllUsers -ErrorAction SilentlyContinue

Edited to hopefully fix formatting on PS command, though you might want to grab it directly from the article I linked rather than my comment, just to be safe

Double edit: messed with PS command block more, made it better, then worse, then better, but still not as clean as someone else fixed for me a few comments past mine. Just get it from them or the website

 

[Wheels Of Confusion]

I hate to say it but I think there's a real business opportunity for MS here, by selling a stripped down version of Windows.

I would totally be ready to pay more if it means not dealling with the required MS account, bloatware, and stuff I know I will never use.... This is very sad.

My understanding is that they do, but not to "you." Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC (Long-Term Servicing Channel). Regular consumers are not supposed to have access to it, even to register a copy.

 

[a5ehren]

I would think that Microsoft have a small team (or contractors more likely) that search the web daily for articles similar to this one, read them, and write up dis-enhancement requests to make each of the described techniques for eliminating annoyances stop working after the next "security update".

all the same stuff has been working since windows 10, so pretty unlikely.

 

[gallahad]

What always baffles me, while fighting with entirely avoidable hassles, is how the engineers and designers who created those hassles can live with their own products, away from work. Do they not also encounter the same soul-grinding annoyances and time-consuming corrections required to actually use what they have built?

You say that like the engineers and designers in the trenches have a choice in the matter they don't

 

[Deleted member 12422]

IMO the easiest way (or at least the only way I can consistently remember) to skip the required Microsoft account login on install is to enter your email address as "no@thankyou.com" and anything for the password. Then click next, and Windows will give you an error, and an option to create a local account.

 

[cwac]

Currently have laptops with windows 8, 10 and now 11. It seems like windows has gotten crappier over time. I spent more time looking at how to uninstall apps on the new 11 machine. I'm still not happy with what garbage is still on the laptop. So much more toggles to turn off than anytime before. I have no interest in ever using edge as a browser and probably never will. Windows 11 seems to be a flaming pile from what I have seen so far.

 

[iseptimus]

I remember when it took longer to install Windows than it did to clean up all the s**t that is built into it. At least before it was due to the OEM, not the OS provider so you can't avoid it.

 

[Ezzy Black]

1) Install Linux

The end.




EDIT: Sorry, meant this as a stupid/snarky joke a little bit at MS’s expense. Not meant as actual advice. Understand if anyone thinks it’s a dumb joke. I’m happy to be seen as making a dumb joke… it happens all too often, after all. But I don’t want to be seen as preaching. Use the computer that works for your needs, is my philosophy.

The problem is we have been hearing this since Linux has existed. Every year has been "the year of Linux on the desktop." If everyone, just here on Ars alone, who claimed they were switching to Linux had done so, there would be no other operating system. Everyone on the planet would have switched to Linux, twice over.

20 years ago Linux had a tiny, single digit share of desktop installs, about 3% to 4%. Today.... oh yeah, 3%-4%.

Can we just get over it please?

 

[TwoKiloBalls]

Jeez, just get a Mac instead of dealing with this bullshit.

Yeah, because nothing is more useful than "Stocks", "Books", "Chess", "FreeForm", "Garageband" , "Keynote", "Pages", "Podcasts" , "TV" and whatever their free version of Office is

https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/apps-on-your-mac-mchl110b00b7/mac