Vaporware or not? Aptera assembles its first five validation models.

The three-wheel, two-seat EV has been in development since 2006.

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[Nexus Trimean]

I hope they actually get something out the door and it's good. There certainly seems to be a demand for it.

 

[TuomasL]

While I wish them success, I just find it highly doubtful that this form factor is going to have any widespread appeal at all. Limited capacity yet has a large footprint? Seems a very, very niche product and in this economic (and US EV) environment I don't know that's a recipe for success.

 

[kmcmurtrie]

Those wheel pods aren't going to last long with American driving skills. Might as well take them off so the car isn't so wide.

 

[iollmann]

Should Aptera succeed and begin delivering vehicles...

Eh.. Aptera has the biggest case of perpetual goalpost moving. It's probably because of inadequate funding, but mostly it seems to me they have startup disease. The startup phase is working for them -- free money, work on what you want to, no grumpy customers...

Deliver? Deliver?

Then the nightmares all come true, the bad decisions, the deaths, the lawsuits.

Better to just be in perma-development mode.

 

[Fatesrider]

While I wish them success, I just find it highly doubtful that this form factor is going to have any widespread appeal at all. Limited capacity yet has a large footprint? Seems a very, very niche product and in this economic (and US EV) environment I don't know that's a recipe for success.

The folding and unfolding to get into and out of it is what concerns me. I like the rotating doors for getting into and out of tight parking places (not that a small form-factor car will need a lot of room anyhow), but IIRC, they're not that way for a reason on most cars (complicated mechanics that fail being one of them).

And I do NOT see them passing the bumper requirements in the US for passenger cars. They might get around that by classifying it as a motorcycle, but hard to say. Imagining just getting into it is already making my arthritis ache. Getting OUT of it would be a nightmare.

It's great for some kind of cyberpunk dystopian future, but other than that I only see this kind of thing useful in closed communities where normal POV's and the disabled are discouraged.

 

[iollmann]

While I wish them success, I just find it highly doubtful that this form factor is going to have any widespread appeal at all. Limited capacity yet has a large footprint? Seems a very, very niche product and in this economic (and US EV) environment I don't know that's a recipe for success.

It works for 20-somethings, maybe the odd eccentric emptynester still going to work. Due to solar design you won't want to keep it in your garage anyway. What is their actual intended run volume? If it is not high, that is enough.

Part of the problem of this car is they are solving the wrong problem for a EV. Free electricity is not the problem for a EV. It's plenty cheap on the grid. It might make sense for the true poor, but they aren't buying new cars. You'd have to sell the cars to the state to hand them out or something. The state just isn't in the mood lately. If the grid was failing, the solar aspect would be a good stopgap, but the grid isn't failing. I'm really thinking Africa here or India. Is it up for some really really crappy roads? Is the solar going to work under a cake of dust?

 

[BigDXLT]

Great to see another option on the road for folks that have money to burn but don't want to burn gas. I think it looks neat and hope fills a niche. They have been fairly open with their process and I just think they look neat!

I wish them and their buyers the best.

 

[davolfman]

A bit of an expensive town to build a car in?

 

[ShortOrder]

There's a good reason you don't see things like the Polaris Slingshot being used in wintery climates. Having the drive wheel in the snow covered center of a lane just doesn't work. I see those in the summer but they are obviously just toys.

 

[agpob]

IDK... 3 wheels equals more direct pot-hole hits. Can't easily straddle/avoid holes or debris with 3 wheel configuration. More potential for unavoidable severe damage. Wheel pants may need modifying for real world parking lot entrance/exits, and some secondary road aprons. Oh, and one more thing - visibility! How will you see anything unless you're looking under all those big SUV's? How will they, in turn, see you?

 

[thehairynug]

While I wish them success, I just find it highly doubtful that this form factor is going to have any widespread appeal at all. Limited capacity yet has a large footprint? Seems a very, very niche product and in this economic (and US EV) environment I don't know that's a recipe for success.

I would disagree if not for the $40k starting price. If these things were sub "real" car pricing (in between motorcycles and cheaper cars), it would be a relative slam dunk

 

[Sarty]

And I do NOT see them passing the bumper requirements in the US for passenger cars. They might get around that by classifying it as a motorcycle, but hard to say. Imagining just getting into it is already making my arthritis ache. Getting OUT of it would be a nightmare.

That's exactly why it has and must only have three wheels. It takes up the space of a car and it does many (some might say not enough) car things, but it's legally not a car.

Whatever floats your boat, but you wouldn't catch me dead in one of these things on public roads (because that's exactly what you'd find after any serious collision).

 

[Dr Gitlin]

I hope they actually get something out the door and it's good. There certainly seems to be a demand for it.

For a two-seat $40,000 EV?

Edit: I guess if they have almost 50k reservations…

 

[jlredford]

I like the solarpunk design - it looks like something from a green eco future. That's opposed to the Cybertuck, which was meant to look like the post-apocalypse Max Max future. That look was entirely fake, of course, as people discovered when parts fell off and the body corroded and it couldn't handle bad roads.

I think Aptera's swooshy design is why people have stuck with it. It really does look like a car from Tomorrowland, and people have been longing for that. If it looked like a Prius no one would care and it would be long gone.

 

[fidget42]

And I do NOT see them passing the bumper requirements in the US for passenger cars. They might get around that by classifying it as a motorcycle, but hard to say. Imagining just getting into it is already making my arthritis ache. Getting OUT of it would be a nightmare.

These are usually classified as motorcycles (that's why there aren't four wheels), so the safety regulations are way lower.

 

[Varste]

[Aptera] says it has “nearly 50,000 reservations on record”

And how did that work out for Elio? They claimed over 65,000 reservation holders (bottom of page). I don't know who these tens of thousands of people are but they're not 'real', in the sense that 95%+ will not actually buy the thing. $40k gets you a lot of car these days, even in the EV space (especially used, as your articles have covered). Every single one of those vehicles is more usable AND backed by a manufacturer who isn't a few bad months away from bankruptcy. I'm sure a few hundred/thousand tech-focused people will try to pick one of these up, even if just to be different, but that's not sustainable.

 

[SolarMane]

Eh.. Aptera has the biggest case of perpetual goalpost moving. It's probably because of inadequate funding, but mostly it seems to me they have startup disease. The startup phase is working for them -- free money, work on what you want to, no grumpy customers...

Deliver? Deliver?

Then the nightmares all come true, the bad decisions, the deaths, the lawsuits.

Better to just be in perma-development mode.

A primer on the checkered history of this company:


View: https://youtu.be/X1W7SMMldKY?si=rIfnDz62X-0DXH7n

 

[sword_9mm]

While I wish them success, I just find it highly doubtful that this form factor is going to have any widespread appeal at all. Limited capacity yet has a large footprint? Seems a very, very niche product and in this economic (and US EV) environment I don't know that's a recipe for success.

I can't see this working in any country really. Not the 3 wheels just the entire form factor.

 

[chateauarusi]

I wish them and their buyers the best.

Ditto. I think there's ample reason for skepticism about their long term prospects, and I can't see myself being interested in one, but I am pleased to know there are still these "Tucker: The Man and His Dream" type idiosyncratic companies banging away at the margins of the possible. This is ultimately a good thing.

 

[roboninja73]

A "small" 3-wheel EV that is wider than a Hummer? No thanks.

 

[tipoo]

I hope these guys survive and make it (this time). Designing the vehicle around aero and efficiency such that solar can provide meaningful range and a standard 110 volt plug even can charge it quickly is interesting enough. On every normal shaped car, solar just does some tiny subtask like keeping it cooler while you're away, or tiny range if directly connected to an EV battery that will never be worth it over the lifetime of the panels.

I do think with scaling the price will need to come down long term, a full car's cost for not a full car's functionality is still a hard sell to most people, even if the statistics are all there and the average ride is like 1.2 people and all. It's the perception of ever needing more. Maybe, really, drop the solar and just sell a bare version that can still charge for scant dollars on 110 volt plugs anywhere quickly.

This time around maybe even that planned four wheel vehicle makes it out...? Let's see

 

[android_alpaca]

For a two-seat $40,000 EV?

Edit: I guess if they have almost 50k reservations…

I feel like the reservations are more of a "Pinterest aspirational wishboard" than anything as a $100 refundable deposit for a reservation doesn't say much about what people will actually buy.

I mean Cybertruck had alleged had like 1M reservations... and only about 2.5% of those reservation holders actually bought one before the reservation list emptied out. I will quote a very wise man who said

I wouldn't put much store in a refundable $100 deposit but you do you.

 

[icrf]

And how did that work out for Elio? They claimed over 65,000 reservation holders (bottom of page). I don't know who these tens of thousands of people are but they're not 'real', in the sense that 95%+ will not actually buy the thing. $40k gets you a lot of car these days, even in the EV space (especially used, as your articles have covered). Every single one of those vehicles is more usable AND backed by a manufacturer who isn't a few bad months away from bankruptcy. I'm sure a few hundred/thousand tech-focused people will try to pick one of these up, even if just to be different, but that's not sustainable.

I used to really like the Elio. I think the design being narrow one person wide with a second person behind (or luggage, not both) was a better idea than this (granted, it wasn't an EV). I wonder how much lower drag that would be with the reduction in frontal area.

Maybe they wanted the extra width here because they're really leaning in on the solar panels and wanted the space. Also might need the extra width to store enough batteries to get any reasonable range. The Elio was just a little motorcycle engine so didn't need much engine or gas tank space.

 

[AbboFun]

Hmmm, looks like Messerschmidt KR200 from the early 50’s last century, that didn’t work out either.
Actually this one is worse, terribly wide for a 2 seater with barely any luggage space and thatfor a hefty price (nobody believes the projected 40k)

 

[Sarty]

Eep. From their EOY 10-K

Our production plan for our Carlsbad facility is phased. The initial “low-volume” production phase requires an estimated $45 million to 50 million in capital to fund the remaining necessary tooling and validation programs. Following the initiation of low-volume production, a second phase to ramp to high-volume production (a target rate of approximately 20,000 vehicles per year, which we believe is our current facility’s maximum capacity based on consultations with Munro & Associates) would require an estimated additional $140 million to $160 million. Until the necessary funding for a given production phase is secured, we are unable to predict if and when that phase of production will commence, and our previously anticipated timelines are no longer indicative of our current expectations.

Vaporware with a capital V.

 

[Bravesirrobinson]

I've been cheering for Aptera for the last couple of years, but even so I would never even consider buying one of the first gen models. Not only because it's the first production cars from a company, or the first production cars of a particular type (even my first gen VW ID4 has problems), but because there are sooooo many small things that look super annoying and poorly thought out about the vehicle.

You've got the super wide wheelbase as mentioned in the article, but the windows don't retract all the way from top to bottom, instead they only go up about halfway, adding this giant seam right at eye level. Basically every review I've seen has mentioned glare from the dashboard solar panels affecting visibility onto the curved front windshield. The A pillars are giant and really obstruct the view. The mirrors are abysmal, with tiny little side mirrors and a digital main mirror. They've got a yoke but it's not drive by wire, so you have to crank the steering wheel, but the yoke makes it hard.

 

[cerated09]

The specs sound impressive. But I don't get what problem this product is solving? I guess with that many reservations there is some demand but to reach business sustaining sales volumes I think the vehicle will need a more traditional look and footprint.

 

[ShortOrder]

For a two-seat $40,000 EV?

Edit: I guess if they have almost 50k reservations…

Looking at numbers for the Polaris Slingshot, MSRP runs from $26k-$44k and I don't think that includes a roof (sold separately). They don't publish unit numbers sold but give a total market north of $1B. So maybe there is a market

 

[ERIFNOMI]

While I wish them success, I just find it highly doubtful that this form factor is going to have any widespread appeal at all. Limited capacity yet has a large footprint? Seems a very, very niche product and in this economic (and US EV) environment I don't know that's a recipe for success.

Yeah who is this for? The guys that buy those goofy-ass Slingshots don't strike me as EV believers.

Of course we've heard from a loud few over the many many years that Aptera is going to change the world or whatever. I expect them to put up when (if) the time comes.

 

[DarthSlack]

I hope they actually get something out the door and it's good. There certainly seems to be a demand for it.

Pretty much anything on wheels is going to sell a few 10s of thousands. I mean, around 140,000 Yugos were sold and over 40K Cybertrucks were sold. I wouldn't consider there to be any notable demand for either vehicle though.

 

[Chairman]

Drag coefficient as a FoM(figure of merit) needs to die. Without frontal area, it doesn't tell you anything about real world performance of vehicle. It would be so much more useful if they provided "Equivalent Frontal Area" that would actually allow you to easily compare vehicle to vehicle.

 

[EABarbour]

A primer on the checkered history of this company:

From a channel run by short-sellers, which specializes in badmouthing publicly-traded startups in order to short them.

These look way too crazy.

If even five percent of the people who took a reservation actually buy one, and Aptera makes a profit, that's enough to call it a viable business. Besides, "Supercars" look "way too crazy", yet millions of people, all over the world, OBSESS over them. Do you think people buy Ferraris, Lamborghinis, and Bugattis based on their trunk space?

$40k gets you a lot of car these days

And yet, I don't see Americans rushing off to buy the cheap cars--which are disappearing from the market one after another. They appear to prefer coughing up $48,000 for an SUV or large pickup truck. While fuel prices continue to spiral up.

It is still FAR too early to condemn or praise Aptera--they are inventing an entirely new market for a device that did not exist before. Give them a bloody chance.

 

[ERIFNOMI]

Another astonishingly uninformative article from Dr. Gitlin. It takes until the 7th paragraph (out of 10 in the article) to mention that Apteras are SOLAR ELECTRIC VEHICLES (first, and EVs second). That’s why they have the funky shape and proportions they do, but Gitlin seemingly doesn’t feel that info is important - certainly not enough to be mentioned in the headline or lede, and apparently not even worth mentioning at all until near the end of the article (and that mention makes for a total of one time, that the actual nature of the vehicle is mentioned).

Some days I honestly get the impression Dr. Gitlin is like Grampa Simpson, shaking his fist at the cloud that is any vehicle which doesn’t conform to his ideal.

I’m sure the doctor will chime in to reinforce the “only 40 miles per day of range added by the panels” figure, but that doesn’t negate the fact these vehicles were conceived from the ground up as solar vehicles first. Have they managed to check all the boxes every car driver needs? Probably not. But don’t they deserve some credit for seeing this vision through to production?

(Edited to correct Km to miles)

Do you really want me to do the math on how useless those solar panels will be?

If you want to charge your car with sunshine, cover your house with solar panels, not your car.

 

[ERIFNOMI]

From a channel run by short-sellers, which specializes in badmouthing publicly-traded startups in order to short them.

If even five percent of the people who took a reservation actually buy one, and Aptera makes a profit, that's enough to call it a viable business. Besides, "Supercars" look "way too crazy", yet millions of people, all over the world, OBSESS over them. Do you think people buy Ferraris, Lamborghinis, and Bugattis based on their trunk space?

And yet, I don't see Americans rushing off to buy the cheap cars--which are disappearing from the market one after another. They appear to prefer coughing up $48,000 for an SUV or large pickup truck. While fuel prices continue to spiral up.

It is still FAR too early to condemn or praise Aptera--they are inventing an entirely new market for a device that did not exist before. Give them a bloody chance.

Ah, open with the "doubters are just short sellers" bullshit and immediately jump into the heaviest lifting "ifs" of all time.

Classic "true believer" behavior.

 

[NetMage]

While I wish them success, I just find it highly doubtful that this form factor is going to have any widespread appeal at all. Limited capacity yet has a large footprint?

At one time it seemed like it might be useful because it had a large range but batteries have moved on and regular cars are getting equal or more range (though more expensive) and charging network improvements are making the more common 300 mile range BEVs adequate for almost every use case except towing, and at similar or cheaper prices.

It just seems like it’s too little too late for too much. Halve the price or up the range to 600 and it might be interesting again.

 

[stormcrash]

While I wish them success, I just find it highly doubtful that this form factor is going to have any widespread appeal at all. Limited capacity yet has a large footprint? Seems a very, very niche product and in this economic (and US EV) environment I don't know that's a recipe for success.

Seriously, it's like the Electromechanica Solo, or a Twike, but way worse